1 Pt Escape - a solution in search of a problem?

GogglesPaizano

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Feb 6, 2018
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RBY put on a show last night reminiscent of Nolf. That frogger move should make some highlights. 12 takedowns to none, beautiful.

The match does illustrate a challenge though. With catch and release it can take an eternity to rack up a Tech even when one wrestler is completely outmatched.

I don't have the perfect solution by any means, since I generally value back points more than takedowns. The problem lies in a wrestler on bottom gaining the very same 1 point for a well earned escape, as a simple release.

In a perfect world a free release should garner no points, however, allowing a refs judgement here or say a signal from the top wrestler that he intends a free release is frought with problems and likely unworkable.

The closest compromise is to award 3 points for the takedown. It certainly addresses the catch and release point disparity. Likewise it adds reward to one of the more difficult skills in wrestling. It certainly detracts some importance from the 2 point near fall, but I would not suggest changing the current near fall 2/4 point reward weighting.

A 3 pointer would have a higher impact on 3rd period strategy and action especially in the last 30 seconds of a match. Not all good things, but on balance a gift to fans. It might also drive a shift in our folk training and skill set, closer to what is valued in freestyle.

Thoughts from others about a 3 point takedown? I kind of like the idea.
 

crablegs1

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2009
554
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RBY put on a show last night reminiscent of Nolf. That frogger move should make some highlights. 12 takedowns to none, beautiful.

The match does illustrate a challenge though. With catch and release it can take an eternity to rack up a Tech even when one wrestler is completely outmatched.

I don't have the perfect solution by any means, since I generally value back points more than takedowns. The problem lies in a wrestler on bottom gaining the very same 1 point for a well earned escape, as a simple release.

In a perfect world a free release should garner no points, however, allowing a refs judgement here or say a signal from the top wrestler that he intends a free release is frought with problems and likely unworkable.

The closest compromise is to award 3 points for the takedown. It certainly addresses the catch and release point disparity. Likewise it adds reward to one of the more difficult skills in wrestling. It certainly detracts some importance from the 2 point near fall, but I would not suggest changing the current near fall 2/4 point reward weighting.

A 3 pointer would have a higher impact on 3rd period strategy and action especially in the last 30 seconds of a match. Not all good things, but on balance a gift to fans. It might also drive a shift in our folk training and skill set, closer to what is valued in freestyle.

Thoughts from others about a 3 point takedown? I kind of like the idea.
I see no difference between making TDs 3 points and just making an escape worth zero. I’m not a fan of either solution, but fail to see why it would be a compromise. They’re identical.

The solution is real simple and it’s already in the rules. Ride the guy and turn them. The goal in wrestling, especially folkstyle, is a pin anyway. I don’t see the point in rewarding someone for not being good at 1/3 of the sport (top).

IMO letting people do catch and release without penalty will only further eliminate the top/bottom aspect of the sport. If that’s the case, let’s just go to freestyle already (which I would support).
 

CSauertiegPSU

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Staff
Oct 9, 2013
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So here’s my question, is the current scoring system really an issue? I understand constantly wanting to improve the sport. But sometimes in wrestling I feel like we search out problems that don’t exist. If RBY hadn’t gotten the tech last night, it would be because he didn’t display dominant mat wrestling in a style and sport that rewards strong mat wrestlers.
 

Folkstylefan

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2019
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Good god no freestyle. Crablegs is right, the goal is to pin the opponent. Fairly simple get better at turning/pinning someone. Its early in the season as well, let the guys work on things. Some are never good at mat wrestling just like some are not good on their feet.
 

Zjocko

Active Member
Nov 9, 2019
31
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I see no issue that needs to be solved. A takedown is worth 2, with options to ride, turn, or pin. If the guy escapes it is worth 1. A wrestler does not ever have to let a guy up. Pins/turns are more valuable than a takedown. If a top wrestler can't turn or pin and would prefer to let the guy up so that he can dominate the takedown battle, it makes sense that is a harder way to tech a person than by turns/and of course a pin.
 

nerfstate

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Oct 10, 2017
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I'm all for no RT point unless you get a turn, but don't think I'm ready for 3pt TDs or 0pt excapes.
 
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LongJakk

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Sep 19, 2001
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I wouldn't mind sewing a 60 second ride rule where if in 60 seconds you haven't gotten a tilt the action stops and an escape is awarded. There is just too much of the Iowa ride without ever really trying to tilt going on. Or after 60 seconds you have an automatic stall call, but the refs also need to call stalling on bottom if they are just preventing a tilt.
 

mcpat

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Mar 13, 2021
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In folkstyle wrestling, the goal is to obtain a fall. I don't think you want to reward catch and release if the goal is to obtain a fall. I actually liked the rule years ago that didn't reward five points for a TF unless back points were scored.
 
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GogglesPaizano

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Feb 6, 2018
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I wouldn't mind sewing a 60 second ride rule where if in 60 seconds you haven't gotten a tilt the action stops and an escape is awarded. There is just too much of the Iowa ride without ever really trying to tilt going on. Or after 60 seconds you have an automatic stall call, but the refs also need to call stalling on bottom if they are just preventing a tilt.

Hmmm, you just might have given the national championship to Fix.

I find the idea of only giving a riding time point of you get the tilt interesting, but that somewhat defeats the purpose. Giving a free escape after 60 seconds negates the value of being able to ride which is a pretty unique skill and definitely brings folk into the arena of being freestyle-like. I don't think most are willing to go that far.
 

NittanyChris

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Dec 3, 2001
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Which performance is more indicative of dominance to you?

A. Guy gets a takedown, 1 point riding time and 4 near fall points. Leading 7-0 after the first period.

B. Guy gets 6 takedowns in the first, letting the opponent up every time fairly quickly except at the end of the period. Leads 12-5 after the first period. Doesn't have enough riding time for the point yet.

Both guys have a 7 point lead, but to me 6 takedowns in a single period is much more dominant, though the score doesn't reflect that dominance. IMO.
 
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manatree

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May 29, 2001
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The solution is real simple and it’s already in the rules. Ride the guy and turn them. The goal in wrestling, especially folkstyle, is a pin anyway. I don’t see the point in rewarding someone for not being good at 1/3 of the sport (top).
Exactly.

If someone is looking to change the rules, get rid of riding time. I’ve always hated it. If you want points beyond the take down, earn them with a turn.
 

CSauertiegPSU

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Oct 9, 2013
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Which performance is more indicative of dominance to you?

A. Guy gets a takedown, 1 point riding time and 4 near fall points. Leading 7-0 after the first period.

B. Guy gets 6 takedowns in the first, letting the opponent up every time fairly quickly except at the end of the period. Leads 12-5 after the first period. Doesn't have enough riding time for the point yet.

Both guys have a 7 point lead, but to me 6 takedowns in a single period is much more dominant, though the score doesn't reflect that dominance. IMO.
I’d argue spending over a minute forceably holding someone on the ground while they’re trying to get up AND forcing them over onto their back is a pretty god indicator of physical dominance as well.
 

kadeeu

Active Member
Aug 5, 2002
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My idea would be to give the rider 30 seconds to get a tilt or the guy underneath to get an escape. After 30 seconds they go back to nuetral with NO escape point awarded. Still awards the good rider and creates some urgency for both wrestlers. If there is a tilt then the 30 sec clock resets and the ride continues to allow the rider more time to pin.
 

GantryZ

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Jul 12, 2013
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My idea would be to give the rider 30 seconds to get a tilt or the guy underneath to get an escape. After 30 seconds they go back to nuetral with NO escape point awarded. Still awards the good rider and creates some urgency for both wrestlers. If there is a tilt then the 30 sec clock resets and the ride continues to allow the rider more time to pin.
The problem is that top wrestling will turn into the stall fest the 30 seconds ride outs are. The majority of people on top will only be focused on not letting the bottom man up and will do all the tricks like dropping to the ankle, running out of bounds, etc. There may be less riding to watch but it'll be more painful and stall ridden.
 

PSUcup1

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Nov 6, 2012
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Which performance is more indicative of dominance to you?

A. Guy gets a takedown, 1 point riding time and 4 near fall points. Leading 7-0 after the first period.

B. Guy gets 6 takedowns in the first, letting the opponent up every time fairly quickly except at the end of the period. Leads 12-5 after the first period. Doesn't have enough riding time for the point yet.

Both guys have a 7 point lead, but to me 6 takedowns in a single period is much more dominant, though the score doesn't reflect that dominance. IMO.

couldn’t disagree more
 
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tullfan68

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Jun 20, 2021
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RBY put on a show last night reminiscent of Nolf. That frogger move should make some highlights. 12 takedowns to none, beautiful.

The match does illustrate a challenge though. With catch and release it can take an eternity to rack up a Tech even when one wrestler is completely outmatched.

I don't have the perfect solution by any means, since I generally value back points more than takedowns. The problem lies in a wrestler on bottom gaining the very same 1 point for a well earned escape, as a simple release.

In a perfect world a free release should garner no points, however, allowing a refs judgement here or say a signal from the top wrestler that he intends a free release is frought with problems and likely unworkable.

The closest compromise is to award 3 points for the takedown. It certainly addresses the catch and release point disparity. Likewise it adds reward to one of the more difficult skills in wrestling. It certainly detracts some importance from the 2 point near fall, but I would not suggest changing the current near fall 2/4 point reward weighting.

A 3 pointer would have a higher impact on 3rd period strategy and action especially in the last 30 seconds of a match. Not all good things, but on balance a gift to fans. It might also drive a shift in our folk training and skill set, closer to what is valued in freestyle.

Thoughts from others about a 3 point takedown? I kind of like the idea.
if RBY wrestled like that every match no on would touch him to bad he doesnt!!
 

WreslingFan0314

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2017
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I don't see an issue with the current set up. They changed the near fall to 4 points to encourage more action on the mat. If a wrestler doesn't want to utilize mat wrestling, that's his choice. The incentive to take a guy down and score while on the mat is there.
 

Ski

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
10,066
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Will the earth stop spinning if we just leave it the way it is?

Not completely, but if we give it enough time it will eventually only spin once for every rotation around the sun, as its spin is gradually slowing.
 

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