25 Schools That Dominate Athletically & Academically.
- Thread starter denniskembala
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Their basis is that unc is very strong academically and wins a lot.
Great post. Look forward to another post on examples and reasons behind falling academic levels.
Would imagine the quality of academic programs hasn't varied much, but perhaps the Sandusky scandal dropped PSU from a student's first choice to their second or third (reflecting the less-competitive scores Norm referenced). Hopefully just a short-term slip.
My un-researched hypothesis is that Penn State is simply taking significantly more students into their overall system. Just about any student in the state who can maintain a B average and post a reasonable SAT will be accepted into the branch network. Would be interesting to run the same analysis focusing only on University Park campus.
The more intelligent high school seniors have little interest in attending a university knowing all BOT decision-making is based on maximum benefit to a self-serving power block rather than the student.
Yes. But at least Penn State is the LEAST expensive of all B1G schools. We, at least, have THAT going for us. Right??
Agreed...also have to consider the traditional 'state charter' of being able to provide a quality education for the non-wealthy in the state of PA. Too many schools have become profit driven and are accepting foreign students, with greater revenue opportunities, that state citizens. Too many are having to reach diversity targets, as good as that may be, which erodes academic ratings.
One other piece to consider is the increase of out of state and international students the university is bringing in. From the auditor general's recent audit - "Data released in the audit showed that Pennsylvania resident enrollment at the flagship campus dropped from 76.5 percent in 1990 to 56.2 percent in 2015. Further, in 11 of the last 16 years, including the most recent seven, the admit rate was higher for out-of-state students than in-state students. Penn State officials said that they did not favor out-of-state students but did see them as a source of revenue since they pay more than do in-state students." That has to have some impact on the academic profile of the university. In a choice between higher achieving in-state vs. lower achieving out-of-state Penn State has been choosing the latter for profit.
Let's face it. We're not Stanford, or even Michigan. We're really not close. That's not all bad. There are lots of intelligent, but underachieving, high school students who can't get into a better school and wind up at a Penn State branch campus, or even at University Park. They turn their academics around and go on to lead very productive lives. I am a prime example. Let's just be realistic about it. Some Penn State alums I know try to paint us as the Stanford of the East. We will never be on their level. That's not to say we shouldn't try to improve, and 142, regardless of criteria, is too low. Let's strive to get into the top 100 and learn to live with that.
Agree and disagree. There are schools that need to cater to kids that didn't get the great nurturing education of a private school or suburban school. That is the charter of a state school. We've kind of lost our way in all of this. Should PSU be a Michigan or a Stanford? I'd like PSU to be PSU. Or, as Casey Kasem used to say "Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars".
LOLOLOLOLOL -- That's hilarious.
Clearly there's no weight/value applied to majors (schools) to account for education that is actually desired in the world. To each their own, but IMO, a school that's mediocre at teaching/preparing engineers is waaaaaaay "better" than a school that is really f*cking fantastic at teaching basket weaving.
Looking at how that ranking was established, I really couldn't care less where we are on that ranking. When it comes to what's important, that ranking may as well be random.
Let me ask you, if you were a dean (or the President) at Penn State, what would you push for that you think would push us up that Forbes best colleges ranking?
Michigan and Penn State are basically the same already. Michigan generally a small notch above Penn State academically, but otherwise, large semi-public, quality research Universities that also take pride in and put a focus on their intercollegiate athletics.
To become Standford, we (Michigan and/or Penn State) would have to go fully private and significantly shrink the student population (thus increasing the academic standard). Otherwise, we're very similar to Stanford. :-D
Some schools have really taken academics to heart too. I know a lot of folks laugh at tOSU, for one. BUT where they once were a school where a pulse got you in (when I came to Columbus ca. 1978), they really made an emphasis on their honors program and also got the legislature to agree to letting them make admissions selective. That's changed things for them. I was talking to a guy yesterday, originally from North Canton, who went to Kent in the 80s--and noted that in those days, tOSU was the fallback school for kids who could not get into Kent. Not anymore. There are other examples in the conference. And, in the case of UNC--academic scandal aside--it's an excellent school. Their problems essentially were in one small department (and yes, they should get hammered for that and haven't). Budget cuts from the Commonwealth have not helped PSU any either. Not that PSU is always using the money wisely, of course.
Maybe Franklin will speak up about our academics should we have the season we're all hoping for...like many years ago.
Maybe Franklin will speak up about our academics should we have the season we're all hoping for...like many years ago.
More selectivity in admissions and better funding for honors students. Also, grad programs have an impact here, so better facilities/better profs.
My son went to tOSU and they've got some good programs going right now. One issue is that very few true freshmen are on campus for their freshmen year. Almost all kids have to spend their freshmen years at a branch school. My son had good grades and was very disappointed to have to start his college career in Wooster, Ohio. However, every kid at Wooster was a Frosh and dealing with the same separation anxieties. There were no upper class-men to prey on them and it wasn't as intimidating as being on the main campus. He made it to the main campus his sophomore year. He now feels that this was a key developmental step for him. He came to appreciate college and work at it, whereas he feels like he phoned High School in.
Btw, while "intelligent" is relative, your bolded part there was (is) exactly me.
I finished HS with a 2.15 GPA (not a type-o). I really didn't care about anything but getting by in HS. Then, when I got to Penn State, I started caring and made dean's list three out of my first four semesters -- And these were engineering prereqs and classes (statistics, calculus, biology, etc.). Then ended up graduating with a BS in electrical engineering in four years, now also have an MBA and have done pretty well in life. I'm certain not one of my HS teachers thought I would make it through college -- Some probably figured I wouldn't even try.
In retrospect, I flirted with disaster finishing HS with that GPA. Though I somehow also got accepted to Arizona State for engineering, thank god for Penn State.
Yeah, I'm not sure why you consider that an "issue." I started at a Penn State branch campus, and if I had to do it all over again, I would insist on doing it the same way rather than going straight to the massive UP. Not only do you get a better (smaller classes) start to your academic career, but I have so many great life-long friends from that time at the smaller campus. I think it's the perfect way to do college.
didn't mean to call it an "issue" in a negative sense. meant to point out that it is a really great program. I was speaking to a neighbor who's child went to a MAC school instead of tOSU because she wasn't going to be on main campus. She then told me the kind of problems her daughter had her freshmen year. I am not sure her problems would have been avoided, but having the frosh all together as part of a staging or triage is a great program
I really haven't given it much thought, and even if I did, it's not my area of expertise, so I will leave that to others. I just think Penn State should strive to be above public schools like Minnesota, OSU, Clemson, etc.
Was that not based solely on the University Park campus? Cal and UCLA were ranked separately, and they are part of the same University of California system.
That being said, this ranking clearly values academics (and Olympic sports) WAY too high if Cal is ranked No. 6 in terms of athletics/athletics combined. Also, the fact that PSU is ranked at No. 142 academically is a joke..
Fish: You may not have intended it, but the above sentence is pretty damn funny.
Unlike US News, Forbes ranks universities, liberal arts colleges, and military academies all together. I'm sure a lot of us would like to see PSU a bit higher, but 142 is actually pretty good when you look at some of the schools ranked below us and those ranked slightly ahead of us. I've been looking at these rankings over the past few years and it fluctuates pretty wildly. I think 2015 was the only year I remember us cracking the top 100. I believe we were somewhere in the 90s.
I don't know where Forbes had PSU ranked at the time, but when my sons were accepted back in early 2014, PSU was ranked by USN&WR as the No. 8 public university in the country, and somewhere around No. 50 if you include private universities. And USN&WR is heavily biased in favor of private schools. PSU's ranking may have slipped a bit in the last couple of years, but any list that puts it at No. 142 is simply not credible.
To have Penn State 142, not only are there likely schools ranked higher that traditionally would not be by various publications, but there also must be schools in the ranking very different from Penn State in terms of size, charter, etc. Apples and oranges.
Wait, didn't they tell us that joining the Big 10 would be great for PSU academically. Yes, I know, most of it's self inflicted but I'll take any chance I get to slam the Big 10 + 4.
While I'm sure there is some correlation, SAT scores measure the students coming into a college/university. It's not at all measuring the education being provided to the students.
I'm not sure if US News still does it, but at least while evaluating graduate schools they factored in the average compensation students were receiving upon graduation. That's a tough one to get/measure, but IMO it's a much more accurate measure of the education (perhaps a lagging indicator) than is the SAT scores of the students entering the school.
Bingo. Around here the word is that if you have a pulse and your family can afford to pay (full, out-of-state coast of attendance), PSU is the place for you.
