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- Thread starter Nittany Ned2
- Start date
I'm glad you mentioned it. I watched it last night and thought it was well done. It's on tonight from 8 to 9:30. There are 10 episodes.
Do any of us know the story? Like the guy in the beginning who said no one talked about it. It was like a family alcoholic.
My uncle, whom I idolized, graduated West Point in 1964. Went Airborne then green beret. Did one tour of the Dominican Republic and three tours of Nam. He was ****ed up when he returned. But no one talked about it. Sad. The lost generation soon after the greatest generation. Lost so much innocence.
My uncle, whom I idolized, graduated West Point in 1964. Went Airborne then green beret. Did one tour of the Dominican Republic and three tours of Nam. He was ****ed up when he returned. But no one talked about it. Sad. The lost generation soon after the greatest generation. Lost so much innocence.
Yes. Watched last night the confluence of events leading up to the USA replacing France in Indochina. Very good show.
Yes, I definitely enjoyed that as much as anything else in that time frame. I have a tough time staying awake for much of anything. Got a little confusing going back and forth from Nam days to pre-WWII but got used to it. My brother in-law served there and I can really appreciate, especially after last nights episode, the baggage these guys bring back. Pretty sad.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Will add Pennsylvania native and Nine Inch Nails frontman Trent Reznor did the score.
I knew about it but didn't watch it. I've tried to stop watching/reading things that make me sad. I was watching Cool Hand Luke before the game Sat. and turned it off. I had seen it a couple of times before (great movie) but this time it started making me sad. I'm old. I want to laugh, not cry.
I understand and watching last night did depress me, but it gave me insight to an era I lived through but still do not fully understand. That said, I probably should take some of your advice. I need to laugh more.
I lived through it but never knew how we got there, and what Ho Chi Minh's background was. It was very well done in my opinion. The French really got us into that mess, and then the domino theory kept us there, as supposedly we wanted to stop the spread of communism. It all really began with the Russians occupying Eastern Europe after WWII. Their desire to spread into Southeast Asia put us in a place where we thought we had to fight there.
Well, then you've come to the right place. Us resident idiots are here to serve at your beck and call.I understand and watching last night did depress me, but it gave me insight to an era I lived through but still do not fully understand. That said, I probably should take some of your advice. I need to laugh more.
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Well, then you've come to the right place. Us resident idiots are here to serve at your beck and call.
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Will have to check it out. Just watched Born on the 4th of July the other night...forgot how well that movie captured what was not our nation's finest hour in terms of how we treated our veterans. Certainly not a pick-me-up film.
Thanks for posting. We watch PBS frequently but missed this (lots going on right now). We watched the second part tonight. You can watch all of the episodes on the PBS website at present.
Another instance of classic misreads. It was depressing tonight that people who understood the changing dynamics (Van and others) were not properly heard or ignored. Even JFK ultimately realized that the Vietnamese would determine the path of their country and that he supported this view.
I have read and watched many a documentary where it said that the JFK assassination changed history and that the 60's would have been radically different absent his death. Many believe he never would have escalated the troop deployment and absent the war, the 60's would have been completely different.
I have read and watched many a documentary where it said that the JFK assassination changed history and that the 60's would have been radically different absent his death. Many believe he never would have escalated the troop deployment and absent the war, the 60's would have been completely different.
I also lived through it but didn't understand it--still don't. But from what they said, sounded like Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Minh were originally the good guys--never knew that. They just wanted freedom for their country. Sounded like the biggest mistake we made was mistaking what was going on--the fall of colonialism--for a Commie threat. And then when we backed the French, we drove them to communism. Very informative series.
You hear/read that frequently but this show already gave two instances of how JFK pursued policies he didnt really believe in, but thought they would enhance his re-election odds.
I suspect he would have kept enlarging the war just as LBJ did, (cause everything kinda made sense at the time)but w/o being able to enact the civil rights and poverty stuff LBJ did.
Not sure JFK really had any convictions.
A great book on the period and administrations is "Rememberng America" by Richard Goodwin...the guy from Quiz Show, who worked for all of them.
What saddened me was in tonight's episode, JFK saying if he pulled out of this hopeless situation (probably not remembering it exactly right), commies would take country over (although it was apparent they would anyway) and he wouldn't be able to get reelected. Couldn't believe he said that.
The whole discipline of geopolitics is really interesting. If I were president, I would have an advisor who was expert in this area. Everyone should read a book on the subject. It's enlightening and explains a ton on how these issues are created, how to manage them, and how to avoid conflicts. Watching the early episodes, its amazing how you can relate Vietnam to the growth of Bin Laden. There are distinct points of common.
Makes you understand the old adage about those who fail to understand history....
I lived through it as well. Lost several good friends. I never served. There was a lottery draft at time and I was fortunate to have a number drawn that keep me out of it. The country was torn apart (much like now) by the late 60's and when Nixon declared victory and brought the troops home, everyone just wanted to forget it.
Yes, I agree with you and Randy that this was troubling and disappointing. But I have read and seen shows that paint the pic that JFK did not view the war favorably and would have ended US engagement sooner than later. But who really knows.
I was a youngster and did not fully appreciate it. We had someone cut our lawn and the guy who cut our lawn had a kid who came back and took over the cutting. He would talk to me every now and then. His stories were fascinating. As I got a bit older he told me about his experiences. He was prob crazy. He never thought that he was going to get back alive and pursued every excess you possibly could over there. No doubt, he prob left a lot of kids behind over there.
As a recepient of a Robert McNamara Fellowship, I spent 1968 in Viet Nam in what proved to be a pivotal year. I find the program very interesting and balanced and hope it continues as such for the next 8 episodes. Tonight's program developed the storyline that in 62/63 our advisors in the field
were having a hard time getting senior leadership back in Saigon to understand what was really happening in the hamlets. We were losing the Hearts and Minds due to a corrupt and ineffective Diem regime that the people didn't connect to.
were having a hard time getting senior leadership back in Saigon to understand what was really happening in the hamlets. We were losing the Hearts and Minds due to a corrupt and ineffective Diem regime that the people didn't connect to.
a good documentary so far, IMHO. I thought the constant flipping between the situation that existed in the late 40s/early 50s, and the US involvement in the late 50s/60s, was interesting to see the similarities, but also challenging to keep straight. In general, I like historical documentaries that start at the beginning, and detail the events that took place in sequential order.
I guess I've read more than I realized about the US involvement in Vietnan, as well as the French history and Ho Chin Minh's story. I say that because I haven't heard a lot of really new things in the first two episodes. The words of those that were involved in the events, on all sides of the equation, has been the best part of the documentary.
I guess I've read more than I realized about the US involvement in Vietnan, as well as the French history and Ho Chin Minh's story. I say that because I haven't heard a lot of really new things in the first two episodes. The words of those that were involved in the events, on all sides of the equation, has been the best part of the documentary.
I lived thru it also and never knew the history. I was blown away at the admiring letters Ho Chi Minh sent to Truman, that were then stuck in an OOS file, never to see the light of day. The Swamp was only ankle deep back then, but nevertheless it existed.
Most of the arguments stating that JFK would have pulled us out come straight from the still-potent Kennedy propaganda arm. i highly doubt he'd do anything much different than LBJ.
Me too, Tom.
I have the old Stanley Karnow book on Vietnam which covered all this background and iirc was accompanied by/with the excellent BBC series.
To diverge just a bit....when you guys are done with this series, look into how we mucked up things with Castro and Cuba.
An easy and enjoyable read is "Havana Nocturne".
It is mostly centered on the mob but the stuff about Castro, which I kinda almost remember, is really amazing.
Btw...Richard Goodwin was sent by JFK to a conference somewhere in Latin America and chanced into a privte meeting with Che Guevara.
The guy had quite a life and now takes a back seat to his wife Doris Kearns Goodwin.
JFK gave his approval to a coup, which created a political void that spiraled out of control. He effectively determined the outcome.
While Vietnam was the centerpiece of the show, it really brings back the entire environment of the sixties. In addition to Vietnam (the war) we had to deal with the protests, the terrorism of some of the anti war activists, the beginning of the civil rights movement, the cold war, the rise of China as a world player and the assasinations of JFK, RFK and MLK.
In some ways makes what we're going through now look "normal".
America's inability to use "Soft Power" is the reason for this tragedy. You have this antiquated mind set - entrenched in the WWII generation - that HARD power is the only way to achieve objectives. And, besides, you need to keep your troops "trained", right? What better way to keep people trained than an actual war?
Add to that, the military corporations that vitally need to keep building and building their arsenal, and you have a nightmare scenario.
These days, countries aren't conquered, they're bought.
Ned, I don't believe this was covered in the episode last night. I might have missed it during my constant check ins to see the latest on Micah.
Nor have I been surprised yet. I've read quite a bit about it. Not long ago, here on this board, someone asked for book recommendations. I suggested Halberstam's power trilogy beginning with "The Best and the Brightest". It is a history of the decision making during the Vietnam War. If you want to get really pissed off about that era, read it.
The problem with that narrative is that, after the North's victory, things didn't change. In fact, they are still one of the few communist countries left on the planet. I was there 18 months ago and the people of Hanoi, Danang, Hue and Quang Tri were not complimentary at all. Human rights are not something that is a priority.
I guess one could argue that he didn't have a choice after aligning with China but that doesn't hold water today, 50 years later. BTW, they are at odds with China over a military base the Chinese are building just off the VN coast.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Nice companion piece here about the role of the Rand Corporation in Vietnam.
http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/02-saigon-1965
http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/02-saigon-1965
A lot of interesting comments and observations. These documentaries can be very educational. Combat veterans don't talk much about their experiences because it is not something that people with normal lives can relate with easily. So if they talk at all, it is among themselves.
I served in Vietnam during 1968 including the TET Offensive. I commanded a Heavy Automatic Weapons unit (Dusters, Quad 50s) and later was the XO of a Field Artillery Battery doing air mobile "hip shoots" in support of infantry operations. For the last six
weeks I was the Battalion S2. This was as a Lieutenant commissioned from Penn State Army ROTC. The Penn State ROTC programs were highly regarded by the military back in the 1960s and I would imagine they have maintained that reputation.
Another excellent documentary series is the 10,000 Day War from the early 80s. I think it was a Canadian production. You can order it from Amazon.
For first hand accounts there are quite a few books that have been written by Vietnam veterans in the form of memoirs. Here is one by an Army crew chief who commanded a Duster in I Corp with the Marines.
https://vva.org/books-in-review/dusterman-by-joseph-m-belardo-sr/
He was in a Duster Battery commanded by Vin Tedesco who graduated from Penn State in 1964 and became a full Colonel in the Army artillery. Vin has been active at Penn State running for a BOT seat under the Alumni elections process.
https://trustees.psu.edu/vote/2012_Alumni/2012 Candidate Web Tedesco.pdf
Documentaries such as the current PBS series give great historical perspectives but for personal accounts the best way to get a third person account are these "memoirs" publications because they go into the details that never get discussed in person with friends and family. There are literally dozens of these kinds of publications and the ones I have read are always interesting.
I served in Vietnam during 1968 including the TET Offensive. I commanded a Heavy Automatic Weapons unit (Dusters, Quad 50s) and later was the XO of a Field Artillery Battery doing air mobile "hip shoots" in support of infantry operations. For the last six
weeks I was the Battalion S2. This was as a Lieutenant commissioned from Penn State Army ROTC. The Penn State ROTC programs were highly regarded by the military back in the 1960s and I would imagine they have maintained that reputation.
Another excellent documentary series is the 10,000 Day War from the early 80s. I think it was a Canadian production. You can order it from Amazon.
For first hand accounts there are quite a few books that have been written by Vietnam veterans in the form of memoirs. Here is one by an Army crew chief who commanded a Duster in I Corp with the Marines.
https://vva.org/books-in-review/dusterman-by-joseph-m-belardo-sr/
He was in a Duster Battery commanded by Vin Tedesco who graduated from Penn State in 1964 and became a full Colonel in the Army artillery. Vin has been active at Penn State running for a BOT seat under the Alumni elections process.
https://trustees.psu.edu/vote/2012_Alumni/2012 Candidate Web Tedesco.pdf
Documentaries such as the current PBS series give great historical perspectives but for personal accounts the best way to get a third person account are these "memoirs" publications because they go into the details that never get discussed in person with friends and family. There are literally dozens of these kinds of publications and the ones I have read are always interesting.
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Thanks for the post and more importantly your service. Our country would not be the country it is without your bravery and courage exhibited at a time when you so young.
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