ADVERTISEMENT

A 'must read' about ex-Pirate Pitcher Cole! Develope talent anyone??

TheGLOV

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
The Astros Have Gerrit Cole Looking Like an Ace Again and It's Thanks to His Knuckle-Curveball
Michael Beller,Sports Illustrated Wed, Apr 11 10:37 AM PDT
953afed883e537434b79a5b262f8daa2

It must be frustrating for the Pittsburgh Pirates to cast their gaze toward Houston. The Pirates selected Gerrit Cole first overall in the 2011 amateur draft. They nursed him through a dominant minor league career and brought him to the majors in 2013 at the age of 22 thinking they had a future ace on their hands. Cole and the Pirates had some good years together, including an All-Star season in which he finished fourth in Cy Young voting in 2015, but he never became that elite starter he projected to be. As Pittsburgh began a rebuild in earnest this offseason, they cashed in their chips, trading a pitcher who was at the center of the best Pirates teams in the last 25 years, but was still just 27 years old.

With that in mind, it’s easy to understand the Pirates’ likely frustration. After all, Cole just had a better two-start run in his first two outings with the Astros than he did at any time in his five years with the Pirates. Their erstwhile division rivals effectively stole Cole, and now they might be making him the ace he never was in Pittsburgh.

Cole was electric in his Astros debut, tossing seven shutout innings, allowing five hits while striking out 11 and walking none. He backed that up with another 7-inning, 11-strikeout performance, this time allowing one run on two hits and three walks. All told, that’s 22 strikeouts against three walks with a 0.64 ERA and 0.71 WHIP across his first 14 innings in Houston. In his entire five-year run with the Pirates, he had six double-digit strikeout games. He’s 2-for-2 with the Astros.

If there’s any solace for the Pirates, it’s possible Cole had to go to Houston to fully unlock his potential. The Astros have an earned reputation of teasing the best out of their pitchers by indulging their curiosities with their aggressive analytics staff. The greatest success story is likely Charlie Morton, who spent seven of the first nine years of his career with the Pirates. He joined the Astros last year, and they immediately worked on his game. Morton had never thrown his curveball more than 24.6% of the time with the Pirates, while his sinker usage was at 57.3% or more in four of his last five years in Pittsburgh. In year one with the Astros, his curveball usage jumped to 28.7%, and his sinker usage fell to 41.3%. He ended the year with a 3.62 ERA, the second-best mark of his career, new career bests in WHIP (1.19), FIP (3.46) and xFIP (3.58), and a strikeout rate of 26.4%. The Astros are doing the exact same thing with Cole and, what’s more, they’re doing it with the exact same playbook.

Cole has always featured a knuckle-curve among his impressive arsenal, but it comprised just fewer than 10% of his offerings over his final two seasons in Pittsburgh. At the same time, his sinker usage remained flat around 16.5%. This was despite the fact that the sinker was, by far, Cole’s worst pitch, registering a .289 batting average and .408 slugging percentage against over his career. He held hitters to a .231 batting average and .327 slugging percentage while racking up a 14.1% whiff rate with the knuckle-curve. Now, the pitches are so different that it isn’t as simple as trading the former for the latter, but it makes sense that he would alter his mix of pitches. That’s exactly what he has done in year one as an Astro.

Cole has thrown 204 pitches in his first two starts this year. Thirty of them, or 14.7%, have been knuckle-curves, while just 12, or 5.9%, have been sinkers. The knuckle-curve has been filthy, registering 11 whiffs and five called strikes. Hitters have put just two of the knuckle-curves in play, resulting in a popout and a single that had an exit velocity of 77.3 mph. Time for us to take a look at a few of the knuckle-curves in action.

The first knuckle-curve we’ll see is a 2-2 offering to Jurickson Profar in Cole’s first start of the season. After that, we get a first-pitch knuckle-curve against Joey Gallo. That’s followed by another first pitch, this one to Eric Hosmer, and our GIF series wraps up with a whiff of Hunter Renfroe on a 2-2 count.

First and foremost, how is it possible the Pirates ever let Cole make this an ancillary offering? That’s pitching malpractice. This is clearly a highlight-reel pitch, one that can get outs in any situation. Cole is comfortable throwing the knuckle-curve to righties and lefties. He can spot it in the zone, or bury it when he’s ahead in the count. He’ll throw it in nearly any count, as we just saw. Of the 30 curveballs, 11 have come with Cole ahead in the count, 15 have come in an even count, and the remaining four have been with him behind. The one thing we haven’t seen him do with it this season is use it as a backdoor offering against a lefty, but that could be driven by opportunity as much as anything else. The pitch clearly has the break and deceptiveness to be a nasty backdoor pitch, especially in a two-strike count.

The days of the knuckle-curve being in the backseat of Cole’s repertoire are over. Just like the Astros did with Morton and Lance McCullers, they’ll make sure the curve is an emphasis for their new starter. Had the Pirates done the same, he could be leading a rotation that includes Jameson Taillon and Morton. Instead, they’re rebuilding while the Astros are among the best teams in the league, with a couple of Pittsburgh castoffs in their rotation. Indulging curiosity is a very good thing
 
The Astros Have Gerrit Cole Looking Like an Ace Again and It's Thanks to His Knuckle-Curveball
Michael Beller,Sports Illustrated Wed, Apr 11 10:37 AM PDT
953afed883e537434b79a5b262f8daa2

It must be frustrating for the Pittsburgh Pirates to cast their gaze toward Houston. The Pirates selected Gerrit Cole first overall in the 2011 amateur draft. They nursed him through a dominant minor league career and brought him to the majors in 2013 at the age of 22 thinking they had a future ace on their hands. Cole and the Pirates had some good years together, including an All-Star season in which he finished fourth in Cy Young voting in 2015, but he never became that elite starter he projected to be. As Pittsburgh began a rebuild in earnest this offseason, they cashed in their chips, trading a pitcher who was at the center of the best Pirates teams in the last 25 years, but was still just 27 years old.

With that in mind, it’s easy to understand the Pirates’ likely frustration. After all, Cole just had a better two-start run in his first two outings with the Astros than he did at any time in his five years with the Pirates. Their erstwhile division rivals effectively stole Cole, and now they might be making him the ace he never was in Pittsburgh.

Cole was electric in his Astros debut, tossing seven shutout innings, allowing five hits while striking out 11 and walking none. He backed that up with another 7-inning, 11-strikeout performance, this time allowing one run on two hits and three walks. All told, that’s 22 strikeouts against three walks with a 0.64 ERA and 0.71 WHIP across his first 14 innings in Houston. In his entire five-year run with the Pirates, he had six double-digit strikeout games. He’s 2-for-2 with the Astros.

If there’s any solace for the Pirates, it’s possible Cole had to go to Houston to fully unlock his potential. The Astros have an earned reputation of teasing the best out of their pitchers by indulging their curiosities with their aggressive analytics staff. The greatest success story is likely Charlie Morton, who spent seven of the first nine years of his career with the Pirates. He joined the Astros last year, and they immediately worked on his game. Morton had never thrown his curveball more than 24.6% of the time with the Pirates, while his sinker usage was at 57.3% or more in four of his last five years in Pittsburgh. In year one with the Astros, his curveball usage jumped to 28.7%, and his sinker usage fell to 41.3%. He ended the year with a 3.62 ERA, the second-best mark of his career, new career bests in WHIP (1.19), FIP (3.46) and xFIP (3.58), and a strikeout rate of 26.4%. The Astros are doing the exact same thing with Cole and, what’s more, they’re doing it with the exact same playbook.

Cole has always featured a knuckle-curve among his impressive arsenal, but it comprised just fewer than 10% of his offerings over his final two seasons in Pittsburgh. At the same time, his sinker usage remained flat around 16.5%. This was despite the fact that the sinker was, by far, Cole’s worst pitch, registering a .289 batting average and .408 slugging percentage against over his career. He held hitters to a .231 batting average and .327 slugging percentage while racking up a 14.1% whiff rate with the knuckle-curve. Now, the pitches are so different that it isn’t as simple as trading the former for the latter, but it makes sense that he would alter his mix of pitches. That’s exactly what he has done in year one as an Astro.

Cole has thrown 204 pitches in his first two starts this year. Thirty of them, or 14.7%, have been knuckle-curves, while just 12, or 5.9%, have been sinkers. The knuckle-curve has been filthy, registering 11 whiffs and five called strikes. Hitters have put just two of the knuckle-curves in play, resulting in a popout and a single that had an exit velocity of 77.3 mph. Time for us to take a look at a few of the knuckle-curves in action.

The first knuckle-curve we’ll see is a 2-2 offering to Jurickson Profar in Cole’s first start of the season. After that, we get a first-pitch knuckle-curve against Joey Gallo. That’s followed by another first pitch, this one to Eric Hosmer, and our GIF series wraps up with a whiff of Hunter Renfroe on a 2-2 count.

First and foremost, how is it possible the Pirates ever let Cole make this an ancillary offering? That’s pitching malpractice. This is clearly a highlight-reel pitch, one that can get outs in any situation. Cole is comfortable throwing the knuckle-curve to righties and lefties. He can spot it in the zone, or bury it when he’s ahead in the count. He’ll throw it in nearly any count, as we just saw. Of the 30 curveballs, 11 have come with Cole ahead in the count, 15 have come in an even count, and the remaining four have been with him behind. The one thing we haven’t seen him do with it this season is use it as a backdoor offering against a lefty, but that could be driven by opportunity as much as anything else. The pitch clearly has the break and deceptiveness to be a nasty backdoor pitch, especially in a two-strike count.

The days of the knuckle-curve being in the backseat of Cole’s repertoire are over. Just like the Astros did with Morton and Lance McCullers, they’ll make sure the curve is an emphasis for their new starter. Had the Pirates done the same, he could be leading a rotation that includes Jameson Taillon and Morton. Instead, they’re rebuilding while the Astros are among the best teams in the league, with a couple of Pittsburgh castoffs in their rotation. Indulging curiosity is a very good thing
Cole's curve ball was always too flat with Pittsburgh. He also had a penchant for letting up on the pitch to seemingly make sure he got it over the plate. History is full of pitchers that have taken a step forward after a change of scenery......not sure I'm going to bust their balls too much on this one. I'm sure he has learned a by being around Verlander.
 
Very interesting article and I think there is a lot of truth there.

I was never a Cole fan and I was glad the Pirates moved him out. Cole always had a good arm and he had outstanding velocity. However in my view that was all he had. He threw hard but his ball was very flat. Since he didn't have good movement, he threw way too many pitches since he could not bury a hitter - the batters could foul off tons of pitches until he threw a meatball or gave up a walk. Last year he gave up a zillion home runs.

Worst of all I thought he was a very weak competitor. You get a tight game, an important game, and something would go wrong. He'd give up a big hit or somebody would boot a ball and he'd be in trouble. Instead of sacking up and getting tough on the next batter - he'd start grooving balls or walking a regiment and a 2-run enemy inning becomes a 5-run disaster and he's out of the game.

I also thought he was way Way WAY too heavy which made him a poor fielder, he was lousy at holding baserunners, and although he should be a very good hitter, he was indifferent at the plate and never helped himself like he should have. In short I would describe his entire performance as indifferent. He was biding his time in Pittsburgh until Scott Boras got him to the Dodgers for $35MM/yr. In the meantime he whined about his salary and went through his Pirates career going through the motions with no passion, no fire, and no desire for greatness.

A pitch like a knuckle-curve would be ideal - something different, something that moved, that he could use as an out pitch. I'm happy to blame the Pirates braindead trust for not suggesting it, OTOH, if they had, I'm sure Cole would have refused to throw it.

I can't stand Nuttin, Huntington and Coonelly and I think Clint Hurdle is well below average. They have some good - very good - players and they are playing well. We'll see how the trade works out past two starts. 100+ years of baseball history says you don't trade an everyday player for a pitcher (who knows about Moran, but he's off to a good start), so we'll see.

For now, good for Cole, but I don't miss him.
 
The Pirates made the right moves - IMO - jettisoning Cole and Cutch.
I didnt expect them to go 9-3 thus far (and I don’t expect them to have a 90 win season) but I expect they will be better this year than last - - and in much better position moving forward.
There was definitely some bad, stagnant, stinky mojo on that 2018 team. Cole and Cutch may or may not have been the reasons for it - but they were the guys who were in position to lead, so they had to go before things could change. (And I think both guys true contributions were less - not more - than their “stats” numbers would indicate).
Pirates were in a very tough spot with Cutch. Guy who is a fan favorite but whose career is starting its decline. He is no longer an MVP/All-Star level player. Right now he's at average-starter level. You can't pay $20MM+ for long term deal for average-starter performance (especially since it is getting worse).

Cutch can't run anymore, strikes out too much, and is a hard minus defensively. He can still hit some home runs (which is the last skill to deteriorate). It would have been malpractice to resign him. They picked up a guy off the scrap pile who can give you everything Cutch did.

The Pirates caught hell from the fan base because of their earned reputation of salary dumping and refusal to reinforce the team. So now even when they make the obvious right move, they still get torched. But that's OK - the ownership group and executive management deserve every bit of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nittany Ziggy
The Pirates did such a great job with so many pitchers over the past 6 years I'm hardly going to blame them for Cole's development. Nor am I going to draw any huge conclusions on the new Cole after 2 starts. Of course I also won't be shocked if he wins the Cy Young.
 
The curve is a "new" trend in pitching. The past 10 years have been all about fastballs and sliders to facilitate more ground balls. The hitters adjusted to that and are pounding them. Now good curves are en vogue because hitters haven't really seen them enough to be successful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheGLOV
Cole was so frustrated in the 'burgh he needed to get out for his sanity. He would be throwing well until a bad fielding error or a throw to the wrong base would allow a run. Then he would get mad and throw like hell.....and walk the next guy up. Then he would try to calm down and throw strikes....which got hit outta da park!

Trading him was best for Cole and the team.
 
So far its working out well for all sides. Let's hope it continues although I completely expect one or both to cool off considerably in the weeks and months to come. Cole always seemed snake bit with the Pirates. Either he go no run support and threw a decent game or he blew up in one inning and created a hole they could not dig out of. Appears it was the best thing for all involved to enjoy new scenery.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheGLOV
The first time I heard about a knuckle-curve was back in the early 70's when Burt Hooton pitched for the Cubs. As I recall he threw a no hitter against the Phillies in a game at Wrigley. It was one of those days that the wind was blowing in. One of the Phillies absolutely nailed a pitch sending the ball screaming to the outfield. It normally would have gone over 400 feet, but it was easily caught and the no hitter was preserved.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheGLOV
The Pirates did such a great job with so many pitchers over the past 6 years I'm hardly going to blame them for Cole's development. Nor am I going to draw any huge conclusions on the new Cole after 2 starts. Of course I also won't be shocked if he wins the Cy Young.
I couldn't agree MORE with this thought. The Bucs have developed a lot of "scrap heap" level pitchers over the past decade for this to be a legitimate criticism.

Let's see if he can keep cool after a couple questionable ball calls. He often lost focus and would then start to groove some fastballs and batters teed off on him.
Agree with you and Fox Chapel on this one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wbcincy and TheGLOV
I couldn't agree MORE with this thought. The Bucs have developed a lot of "scrap heap" level pitchers over the past decade for this to be a legitimate criticism.


Agree with you and Fox Chapel on this one.
Any big league pitcher is great when things are going good. Everybody gives up hits, everybody throws in walks at a bad moment, everybody gives up some home runs.

But when you had Tom Seaver going and he gave up a hit-error-hit, first and third with a run in - that's when he got the toughest. He had the extra concentration and competitive juice to control the damage, get out of the inning and his team still had a chance.

You get Cole in a jam, he caves. He never learned that what you need to do isn't piss and moan and bad body language. You're allowed to strike out the next guy.
 
Perry Husband is one of the Astro analytic gurus. Effective velocity, pitch sequencing and other things are involved more than just throwing the knuckle curve. He worked with Derek Johnson the Brewers pitching coach and former Vandy pitching coach and many old time guys still view it as crazy talk but those two guys know their stuff.
 
Cole was approaching free agency, it was eitgerctrade him, or let the Yankees sign him and get nothing
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT