What if the closest Clemson player had called for a fair catch? The ball was up in the air so wouldn't the Clemson player have the right to make the fair catch? It would have been a 15 yd penalty on Bama, correct?
Alabama onside kick
- Thread starter bkmtnittany1
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I believe you are correct sir! Everybody will be coaching that now. However if the ball hits the ground first, say they kick it into the ground an it pops up, then you don't have the right to fair catch.
I was saying this as well. Looked like the ball was kicked in the air and not off the ground first. The Clemson player running that direction could have at least waved his arm and maybe the Bama player holds off not wanting to get flagged. Surprised that wasn't already coached...short high kick...call fair catch.
can the kicker be off-sides on a kick-off? If so, the Bama kicker was off-sides as he stepped over the line before he kicked the ball. I think that's why Dabo was so incensed....
I thought he yelled something about offsides as well. But at his presser (and as best as I could tell at the watering hole I was in) he said that they year before, Clemson had kicked on sides and that they recovered the ball only to have it go to the other team. The ruling was, according to Dabo, that the ref's said you have to give the receiving team a chance to catch the ball, which as far as I know would only come into effect if the ball was fair catchable, and they called for a fair catch. Dabo said the ref's did not give Clemson a chance to receive the ball. I think he was CYA at that point. As far as I know, on the kick off, ball travels 10 yards, its anybody's ball. (subject to fair catch rules)
That's not correct. The receiving team has the right to a fair catch whether it's kicked into the air or kicked into the ground. However, in this case, the ball was kicked beyond the reach of the Clemson player. No Clemson player was in a position where they could field the ball, so the Alabama player was allowed to catch it in the air.
That's not correct either. A player must be given an opportunity to catch a kicked ball regardless of whether he calls for a fair catch or not. You can't tackle or block the guy before the ball gets there even if he hasn't signaled for a fair catch, so the refs were correct when they ruled against Clemson the year before. In this case though, there was no Clemson player in a position where they could field the ball. It was a perfectly executed on side kick because it was so wide that no Clemson player could get to it.
however...if a Clemson player had dropped back far enough, or came up from the 2nd line of the receiving team they could have signaled for a fair catch...correct?
Wha? I'm not a ref or a rules expert, but if a ball hits the ground before you posses it, then you haven't caught it.
No, when it's kicked into the ground it's live after 10 yards.
Before Monday night I thought all onside kicks had to hit the ground before you recover it.
I'm talking about onside kicks where the kicker kicks the ball down into the ground so it takes a big high bounce. The receiving team has the right to fair catch that ball despite the fact that it has already touched the ground..
yes it is. You cant fair catch a ball that has already hit the ground. So if the kicker drives the ball into the turf, and it bounces up, that ball cant be fair caught. Basically you cant fair catch a squib kick (one that has hit the ground and bounced around kick)
It makes no difference whether the ball is kicked into the ground or not. The receiving team can fair catch it. Look it up if you don't believe me.
Fair catch: Protection terminates when kick touches the ground or touches another Team B player; if contact with a potential receiver is the result of a player being blocked by an opponent, it is not fair-catch interference. (15 yds from spot of foul) If after a fair catch signal, receiver muffs the kick, he must be given an unmolested opportunity to catch the ball before it hits the ground. If he completes the catch on a different yard line, place ball where first touched. No Team B player may carry the ball more than 2 steps after a valid or invalid signal by any Team B player. (delay: 5 yards) A player who makes any signal for a fair catch and does not touch the ball, shall not block or foul during the down (free kick: 15 yds from spot of foul: scrimmage kick: 15 yds, PSK enforcement)
unless you are describing something else
What I'm talking about is the opportunity to catch a kicked ball. The receiving team must be given the opportunity to field the ball regardless of whether a fair catch is signaled or not. The opportunity exists whether the ball is kicked into the air or is kicked down into the ground creating a high bounce.
and what I am saying is, you don't have fair catch protection, or any catch protection in this situation. if its gone 10 yrs, its a free ball and anyone can go after it. If it is kicked into the air, I agree you have to give the receiving team an opportunity to catch it. If it hits the ground first and pops up, none of that comes into play. (because like, do you only get one bounce or two, or suppose it skips up on the third bounce does the kicking team have to yield to the receiving team??)
I have. If you could call fair catch after it was kicked into the ground and takes a big hop why would anyone ever do it?
You haven't looked in the right place then. I'll make you the same offer that I made Sluggo. How much would you like to wager?
I've had enough fun with you guys. I'll let you off the hook.
From the NCAA Football 2015 Rules and Interpretations:
Rule 6 Kicks. Section 4 Opportunity To Catch A Kick
ARTICLE 1f. During a free kick a player of the receiving team in position to receive the ball has the same kick-catch and fair-catch protection whether the ball is kicked directly off the tee or is immediately driven to the ground, strikes the ground once and goes into the air in the manner of the ball kicked directly off the tee.
From the NCAA Football 2015 Rules and Interpretations:
Rule 6 Kicks. Section 4 Opportunity To Catch A Kick
ARTICLE 1f. During a free kick a player of the receiving team in position to receive the ball has the same kick-catch and fair-catch protection whether the ball is kicked directly off the tee or is immediately driven to the ground, strikes the ground once and goes into the air in the manner of the ball kicked directly off the tee.
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when did they change this?? Does the NFL have the same rule?? Does HS? Just asking, not doubting. It wasn't always the rule, as why would you coach somebody to drive the ball into the ground first?
You do it because it creates a lot of spin on the ball and, more often than not, doesn't travel 10 yards before it takes its second bounce, which is totally unpredictable.
I disagree with that, they coached it that way to get around the fair catch rule, but at this point, that's just a debate.
Now my question is this, (last years USC v Clemson game) why does the ref at 1:34 say. (words to this effect) since the ball didn't hit the ground first and went directly into the air they must be given an opportunity to catch the ball (implying that if it had gone into the ground first, they would not have to give them that opportunity)
You'd have to ask the ref. I have no idea why he phrased it that way since it shouldn't matter.
this is a really ambiguous rule. What does the word immediately mean?? if I hit the ball and it goes 2 feet and bounces up, and then goes another 10 yards the kicking team has to back off and let me catch it?? (these kickers now a days to amazing things, and have lots of time on their hands at practice, so who knows)
from the refs statement, you can see why there is plenty of confusion on this, because as you say, it shouldn't matter. ( to that end Danielson (sp?) seemed to think the ball was driven into the ground first, and clearly it wasn't)
My understanding is that National Federation rules for high school are different than college and Pro rules as it pertains to onside kicks. In high school, the kicking team cannot catch the ball out of the air. It has to hit the ground or a member of the receiving team first. In college and Pro, you are allowed to field the ball in the air as long as it has gone 10 yds.
So how do you explain all of the onside kick attempts where the kicking team comes crashing into the first line of receiving team players in a mad scramble to get the ball. Sounds like all of those plays should be penalties. Or if the ball is in the air then the receiving team could just signal a fair catch every single time. I've seen a lot of onsides kicks where the receiving team is not given the opportunity to field the kick because kicking team players are essentially pushing them out of the way to let a trailing player try to recover it. What am I missing?
You're missing the difference between a squib onside kick and the high one bounce onside kick.
It seems as though the SC player attempted a fair catch signal. It may not have been an effective signal but it shows that he was coached as to what to do in this situation.
As Lar points out it doesn't matter if he calls for a fair catch or not every person on the receiving team in a position to catch the ball has to be given that opportunity to do so. The kickoff team has to give the receiver room
