Clemson: Dabo Swinney has already raked in $950,000 in bonuses this year and will see that figure climb to north of $2 million with a defeat of Alabama next week, according to documents obtained by Aaron Brenner of the (Charleston) Post and Courier. Clemson’s ACC championship also triggered a raise from $3.3 million to $3.5 million for 2016. Swinney’s nine assistants, plus strength coach Joey Batson and DFO Woody McCovey, have each earned $70,000 in bonuses and would receive $25,000 more with a national title
Amatuer Athletics
- Thread starter StinkStankStunk
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Amateur associated with college football and basketball do not exist together in the same story.
It won't be too many more years until college football will have about as much relevance to a university's academic mission as would building a casino on the edge of campus. The casino would deliver sizable profits, employ hundreds of people, draw thousands of people to campus, serve as a university marketing vehicle, and provide entertainment to students and alums. Of course, one would immediately question what a big campus casino has to do with the mission of a university, and the same question should be asked of college football given its current trajectory.
Nicely put. I'd go one step further. Would a college build a casino that created the benefits you outlined if it lost significant (millions) amounts of money? We already have the answer when it comes to football.
True. Joe was the last hope to put the genie back in the bottle and, given the environment today, I doubt Joe could do it even as president of the NCAA. It's been unravelling for decades, but at least there was some outward effort to maintain amateurism and integrity. Now, it's all gone. If you don't bend the rules, you don't win, at least not consistently. If Penn State follows the Paterno model they will be unable to compete with the Alabama's and OSU's of the world. If we win a National Championship in the next 10 years we will either be very lucky or we will have joined all the other schools who have embraced the SEC model.
At a minimum the NCAA should insist on some level of academic integrity.
- Student athletes should be enrolled in degree programs that are available to the entire student population (no special degree programs for athletes).
- Scholarships should be guaranteed for 4 years even if the recruit doesn't pan out athletically.
- Students who accept the scholarships should be required to remain in the program for 4 years unless they graduate early.
- I'm OK with extra tutoring but schools should lose scholarships if their 4 year average graduation rate drops below 80%. The lost scholarships would stop schools from taking kids that are unwilling or incapable of earning a degree.
Now what do we do about runaway coaching salaries?
Good ideas, but the devil is always in the enforcement. The SEC type schools will always find ways around the rules because they are smarter than the NCAA. (Who isn't? Well, OK, our BOT, but nearly everyone else is.
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Nothing. That's reality.
Can you imagine some university president coming out and saying something like "The mission of this university is education, not professional sports. Therefore we are limiting coaching salaries to the scale that we pay professors. We're not de-empathizing football-merely putting it back in it's place. We want to make clear that football is not and will not be the major focus of this university"
Can you imagine?
PSU did that back in the '30s, when it de-emphasized football, essentially. The records were what you might have expected.
I'm not so sure that this won't happen again. I think I might be OK with it, too. Everything about universities & college is going to undergo a radical transformation in the future. Sports might go the way of the dodo, too.
Always nice when someone expresses thoughts that TRULY put the STUDENT part of student-athlete first!!
Kudos!
Coupla' thoughts/additions:
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"At a minimum the NCAA should insist on some level of academic integrity.
Now what do we do about runaway coaching salaries?
Kudos!
Coupla' thoughts/additions:
___________________
"At a minimum the NCAA should insist on some level of academic integrity.
- Student athletes should be enrolled in degree programs that are available to the entire student population (no special degree programs for athletes). GOOD IDEA, but this one doesn't really help any - and just provides an "easy out" for the University. A University (like, for instance UNC ) can set up any POS "program" they want...and so long as they just don't prohibit "regular" students from enrolling... they are set.
- Scholarships should be guaranteed for 4 years [and "count" against the maximum allowable scholarships per sport] even if the recruit doesn't pan out athletically. ABSOLUTELY. Should have always been this way - IMO. But need to add in the [edit] - or else the programs can continue to just "run off" kids, and/or bring in kids who have no business or interest in being STUDENT-athletes - with no penalty.
- Students who accept the scholarships should be required to remain in the program for 4 years unless they graduate early. Obviously, you can't force a kid to remain with a program....but I think what you are getting at is not allowing them to TRANSFER to another program. Personally, I think the "regular" transfer penalties are more than severe enough (basically, sitting out a year)....and I don't think you want to absolutely forbid any route for a kid to "change his mind". I do think they should close the silly loopholes that they don't even enforce ("I wanted to be closer to my family" - used to allow a kid from Georgia to transfer with immediate eligibility from FSU to Texas A&M, the Grad Transfer nonsense, etc)
- I'm OK with extra tutoring but schools should lose scholarships if their 4 year average graduation rate drops below 80%. The lost scholarships would stop schools from taking kids that are unwilling or incapable of earning a degree. Basing anything on "Grad Rates" is fools gold (even worse is the cockamamie GPR, or whatever they are calling it now). Requiring some "Grad Rate" won't reduce the recruiting of kids with no interest or ability to be in school, but will only EXACERBATE the huge problem of programs steering ALL of their Student- Athletes into "African American Studies" and "Consumer Economics" programs - churning out Degrees without any Education. Policing "Grad Rates" or Programs of Study IS an unenforceable, subjective, and - in the end - untenable mission.....but it is the kind of BUZZWORD NONSENSE that the NCAA uses to spin their "integrity". Require the programs to count every scholarship they give out as one of their "maximum allowable" for 4 years...regardless of the current status of the Student-Athlete, and you at least motivate programs to bring in kids who are more likely to "stick"...and not create wasted scholarships.
Now what do we do about runaway coaching salaries?
Always nice when someone expresses thoughts that TRULY put the STUDENT part of student-athlete first!!
Kudos!
Coupla' thoughts/additions:
___________________
"At a minimum the NCAA should insist on some level of academic integrity.
IMO these types of rules ought to be easy. These kids are supposed to be student athletes, right? They ARE easy...simple, really...the issue is NOT in the Difficulty, the issue is in the Motivation. Right now, the large majority of Universities, Coaches, Athletes, Fans, Families of Athletes, TV Networks, and ESPECIALLY THE NCAA, couldn't care less about educating student-athletes in the $$$ sports at "Big Time" programs. What they all DO care about is $$$$ and chest-pounding - and, in their minds, worries about education are simply an obstacle to be avoided in order to accomplishing THOSE goals..
- Student athletes should be enrolled in degree programs that are available to the entire student population (no special degree programs for athletes). GOOD IDEA, but this one doesn't really help any - and just provides an "easy out" for the University. A University (like, for instance UNC
- Scholarships should be guaranteed for 4 years [and "count" against the maximum allowable scholarships per sport] even if the recruit doesn't pan out athletically. ABSOLUTELY. Should have always been this way - IMO. But need to add in the [edit] - or else the programs can continue to just "run off" kids, and/or bring in kids who have no business or interest in being STUDENT-athletes - with no penalty.
- Students who accept the scholarships should be required to remain in the program for 4 years unless they graduate early. Obviously, you can't force a kid to remain with a program....but I think what you are getting at is not allowing them to TRANSFER to another program. Personally, I think the "regular" transfer penalties are more than severe enough (basically, sitting out a year)....and I don't think you want to absolutely forbid any route for a kid to "change his mind". I do think they should close the silly loopholes that they don't even enforce ("I wanted to be closer to my family" - used to allow a kid from Georgia to transfer with immediate eligibility from FSU to Texas A&M, the Grad Transfer nonsense, etc)
- I'm OK with extra tutoring but schools should lose scholarships if their 4 year average graduation rate drops below 80%. The lost scholarships would stop schools from taking kids that are unwilling or incapable of earning a degree. Basing anything on "Grad Rates" is fools gold (even worse is the cockamamie GPR, or whatever they are calling it now). Requiring some "Grad Rate" won't reduce the recruiting of kids with no interest or ability to be in school, but will only EXACERBATE the huge problem of programs steering ALL of their Student- Athletes into "African American Studies" and "Consumer Economics" programs - churning out Degrees without any Education. Policing "Grad Rates" or Programs of Study IS an unenforceable, subjective, and - in the end - untenable mission.....but it is the kind of BUZZWORD NONSENSE that the NCAA uses to spin their "integrity". Require the programs to count every scholarship they give out as one of their "maximum allowable" for 4 years...regardless of the current status of the Student-Athlete, and you at least motivate programs to bring in kids who are more likely to "stick"...and not create wasted scholarships.
Now what do we do about runaway coaching salaries?
I don't think it has to be like you say. The degree programs should be accredited by the NCAA or some other governing body. That would eliminate majors in basket weaving. There's noting to stop a kid from taking an easier major, just not a total B.S. major. The general student body shouldn't be taking B.S. majors either.
Under my proposal kids that walk off or get run off still count against the scholarship total until the 4 years elapse.
Can you imagine if Barron came out and said, "Penn State is going to put the genie back in the bottle. We won't pay any coach on this campus more than $500,000 a year." What kind of reaction do you think that would get? Erickson is still excoriated here for suggesting that Penn State academics should lead the University's PR profile, not Athletics.
Fans are the reason college football is headed down the wrong path. It's us. We want championships. We want to be entertained. Don't get in our way. Fire anybody who doesn't give us bragging rights at the office water cooler on Monday mornings.
Fans are the reason college football is headed down the wrong path. It's us. We want championships. We want to be entertained. Don't get in our way. Fire anybody who doesn't give us bragging rights at the office water cooler on Monday mornings.
Obviously
it would have to be done "system wide" (throughout the NCAA, or whatever governing body you have over the entire spectrum)This is it right here. Preach that truth! Church dismissed.
It's all about us being able to thump our chests at church, work, cocktail parties or wherever.
Obviously
No can do, unless the NCAA got an anti-trust exemption and I don't think they want to go there, although events may overtake them.
I don't think it has to be like you say. The degree programs should be accredited by the NCAA or some other governing body. That would eliminate majors in basket weaving. There's noting to stop a kid from taking an easier major, just not a total B.S. major. The general student body shouldn't be taking B.S. majors either.
Hypothetically, I agree. But the idea of the NCAA determining whether a program was legit or not......that is frightening. The determination between an "easier" major and a "BS" major....who do we trust to do that? Could you imagine the backlash if some governing body said UNC's African American Studies major was "BS"...or if they said USC's Sports Marketing major was a sham program?
Under my proposal kids that walk off or get run off still count against the scholarship total until the 4 years elapse.
Agree 100%, that's why I put the [edit] in there....it just wasn't clear to me from your OP that that was the objective of your "4 year" item, or whether it was just that the kid would have a "guarantee" that he had four years of scholarship provided to him/her. I think that the part of your statement that I bolded is ABSOLUTELY critical.
Hypothetically, I agree. But the idea of the NCAA determining whether a program was legit or not......that is frightening
. The determination between an "easier" major and a "BS" major....who do we trust to do that? Could you imagine the backlash if some governing body said UNC's African American Studies major was "BS"...or if they said USC's Sports Marketing major was a sham program?Under my proposal kids that walk off or get run off still count against the scholarship total until the 4 years elapse.
Agree 100%, that's why I put the [edit] in there....it just wasn't clear to me from your OP that that was the objective of your "4 year" item, or whether it was just that the kid would have a "guarantee" that he had four years of scholarship provided to him/her. I think that the part of your statement that I bolded is ABSOLUTELY critical.
Oh, don't think for a minute that the boys in the ivory tower don't want to thump their chests, too. Gotta' do something to deflect the gaze from......um....er...oh, well down there.
As far as salaries? Oh yeah...that's a whole 'nuther kettle of fish. I don't even know where one begins to address that, except to hope that somehow, someway market forces intervene - and I see no indications of that happening any time soon.
I was referring to the "other stuff".....the stuff "bdgan" brought up.
You don't think PSU fans would support a team whose players were subject to the same academic requirement as the overall student body? I do.
I don't think it has to be like you say. The degree programs should be accredited by the NCAA or some other governing body. That would eliminate majors in basket weaving. There's noting to stop a kid from taking an easier major, just not a total B.S. major. The general student body shouldn't be taking B.S. majors either.
Hypothetically, I agree. But the idea of the NCAA determining whether a program was legit or not......that is frightening
Under my proposal kids that walk off or get run off still count against the scholarship total until the 4 years elapse.
Agree 100%, that's why I put the [edit] in there....it just wasn't clear to me from your OP that that was the objective of your "4 year" item, or whether it was just that the kid would have a "guarantee" that he had four years of scholarship provided to him/her. I think that the part of your statement that I bolded is ABSOLUTELY critical.
Particularly given their track record in certifying initial eligibility.
A fantasy: as many Penn Staters post about the hiring of a new dean of the College of Liberal Arts (not currently open) as comment about the hiring of the football team's cornerbacks coach (also not currently open). Which job affects the life outcomes of more Penn Staters?
I know PSU fans wouldn't support a football team that went 2-10 every year.....which is what would happen if PSU unilaterally instituted the changes being discussed.
That doesn't make the changes "wrong"....but if PSU did it unilaterally, yes, you would soon see support wane in a huge way.
I think that in the final analysis you can choose to be another University of Chicago or continue to be just another (granted a well above average) big university.
You can choose either path, but you can't do both. I think we chose our path a long time ago. It's probably the best path that a large Land Grant institution can follow.
You can choose either path, but you can't do both. I think we chose our path a long time ago. It's probably the best path that a large Land Grant institution can follow.
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- Nobody said anything about "unilaterally". I said "degree programs should be accredited by the NCAA or some other governing body".
- Some schools are reasonably good at it now (PSU, ND, Stanford, NW, BC) and they don't go 2-10 every year.
Oh, that's not what I was saying.....let me be more clear.
"Unilaterally" was referring to THIS post you made earlier:
"You don't think PSU fans would support a team whose players were subject to the same academic requirement as the overall student body? I do"
I read that as ".....the overall student body at Penn State....", which may or may not be what you intended.
If PSU held "athletics" to ALL of the same standards of the overall student body....just for starters, and not even considering other impacts, 1/2 or more of the "big sport" recruits would either be denied admission, or accepted to a Branch Campus for the first two years.
And that is not being critical of PSU's relative stance on those matters.....I would assume most of our "peers" would be in much more dire circumstances if the playing field was level. But, unilaterally, for PSU to adopt such a stance would be the end of competing at this level in the $$$$ sports.....and I would fully expect that year after year of 2-10 would NOT be supported by the masses, no matter how noble the ideals.
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FWIW, The "accreditation" of programs by the NCAA (or any other governing body) is a whole 'nuther issue.....and as noble as the concept may be (and I believe it is a noble concept), that's a rabbit hole I would not even want to wander down.
That is a drop in the bucket compared to the increased giving, applications, royalties and publicity they will receive from playing in the game.
The good news is they wouldn't have to renovate beaver stadium. They probably would be able to hold the games at Jeffery Field because attendance would drop so fast. You think Penn State fans would show up to watch Penn State go 2-10 on a good year? Losing games by 70+ points each week.
Your board monicker always makes me think of ASWP for some reason - not sure what it is, but whenever I read your monicker, ASWP jumps right into my minds-eye.
