Amazingly, only the Chevy Bolt will qualify for the full $12.5K EV "rebate" in Biden's Build Back Better bill (link)

Cosmos

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I didn't know Ford had partnered with Amazon to make Rivian. My guess is that's how Ford got the technology to make the Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightening. Also, I didn't know the Mustang Mach-E is made in Mexico.

Anyway, here are some of the details of what qualifies and how much. Keep in mind manufacturers will markup the vehicle for at least half the rebate amount. How much you get of the other half will depend on: 1) demand for the model you're considering, 2) your haggling skills and 3) the continued availability of ICE vehicle alternatives. And personally, I think Senator Manchin will nix the U.S. union-made requirement.

The base amount of the newly proposed tax credit for qualified filers remains $4,000, as it is today, with another $3,500 available if the EV’s battery pack includes at least 40 kilowatt-hours of capacity. In the case of plug-in hybrids, the gas tank cannot exceed 2.5 gallons.

The bill also calls for resetting the clock for makers Tesla and GM’s Chevrolet which had tapped out the incentives allowed under earlier legislation, Nadel said. Current law for the credits phases them out after a particular automaker sells over 200,000 qualifying vehicles.

Other observers said non-U.S. production for some or all of the parts that go into EVs will rule out some of the major makers extending the full credit to their customers, considering they can’t quickly return production to the U.S.

As proposed, EVs qualify for another $4,500 in the tax credit if an automaker makes the vehicle in the U.S. with a union workforce. Another $500 comes into play for automakers using a U.S.-made battery, for a maximum of $12,500 available to qualifying filers.

Today, the only vehicles that would qualify for anywhere near the full proposed credit is GM’s Chevrolet Bolt EV and Bolt EUV, auto site Road Show said.


 

NJPSU

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The great State of New Jersey is also offering an additional $5000 credit and no sales tax on qualifying electric vehicles.
 
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LionDeNittany

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I didn't know Ford had partnered with Amazon to make Rivian. My guess is that's how Ford got the technology to make the Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightening. Also, I didn't know the Mustang Mach-E is made in Mexico.

Anyway, here are some of the details of what qualifies and how much. Keep in mind manufacturers will markup the vehicle for at least half the rebate amount. How much you get of the other half will depend on: 1) demand for the model you're considering, 2) your haggling skills and 3) the continued availability of ICE vehicle alternatives. And personally, I think Senator Manchin will nix the U.S. union-made requirement.

The base amount of the newly proposed tax credit for qualified filers remains $4,000, as it is today, with another $3,500 available if the EV’s battery pack includes at least 40 kilowatt-hours of capacity. In the case of plug-in hybrids, the gas tank cannot exceed 2.5 gallons.

The bill also calls for resetting the clock for makers Tesla and GM’s Chevrolet which had tapped out the incentives allowed under earlier legislation, Nadel said. Current law for the credits phases them out after a particular automaker sells over 200,000 qualifying vehicles.

Other observers said non-U.S. production for some or all of the parts that go into EVs will rule out some of the major makers extending the full credit to their customers, considering they can’t quickly return production to the U.S.

As proposed, EVs qualify for another $4,500 in the tax credit if an automaker makes the vehicle in the U.S. with a union workforce. Another $500 comes into play for automakers using a U.S.-made battery, for a maximum of $12,500 available to qualifying filers.

Today, the only vehicles that would qualify for anywhere near the full proposed credit is GM’s Chevrolet Bolt EV and Bolt EUV, auto site Road Show said.



What a stupid and convoluted policy.

If we want fewer gas engine cars tax gasoline by $4 per gallon.

LdN
 

Obliviax

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I was told by my tax guy but I will not qualify for any of the EV rebates or credits because I already have too many due to various rental properties
 

The Spin Meister

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I didn't know Ford had partnered with Amazon to make Rivian. My guess is that's how Ford got the technology to make the Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightening. Also, I didn't know the Mustang Mach-E is made in Mexico.

Anyway, here are some of the details of what qualifies and how much. Keep in mind manufacturers will markup the vehicle for at least half the rebate amount. How much you get of the other half will depend on: 1) demand for the model you're considering, 2) your haggling skills and 3) the continued availability of ICE vehicle alternatives. And personally, I think Senator Manchin will nix the U.S. union-made requirement.

The base amount of the newly proposed tax credit for qualified filers remains $4,000, as it is today, with another $3,500 available if the EV’s battery pack includes at least 40 kilowatt-hours of capacity. In the case of plug-in hybrids, the gas tank cannot exceed 2.5 gallons.

The bill also calls for resetting the clock for makers Tesla and GM’s Chevrolet which had tapped out the incentives allowed under earlier legislation, Nadel said. Current law for the credits phases them out after a particular automaker sells over 200,000 qualifying vehicles.

Other observers said non-U.S. production for some or all of the parts that go into EVs will rule out some of the major makers extending the full credit to their customers, considering they can’t quickly return production to the U.S.

As proposed, EVs qualify for another $4,500 in the tax credit if an automaker makes the vehicle in the U.S. with a union workforce. Another $500 comes into play for automakers using a U.S.-made battery, for a maximum of $12,500 available to qualifying filers.

Today, the only vehicles that would qualify for anywhere near the full proposed credit is GM’s Chevrolet Bolt EV and Bolt EUV, auto site Road Show said.


That’s a pretty long, complicated explanation for how to figure the handouts to a favored company.

I have a much easier, faster, and more accurate way......which companies does Pelosi and husband own stock in?
 

rumble_lion

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I didn't know Ford had partnered with Amazon to make Rivian. My guess is that's how Ford got the technology to make the Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightening. Also, I didn't know the Mustang Mach-E is made in Mexico.

Anyway, here are some of the details of what qualifies and how much. Keep in mind manufacturers will markup the vehicle for at least half the rebate amount. How much you get of the other half will depend on: 1) demand for the model you're considering, 2) your haggling skills and 3) the continued availability of ICE vehicle alternatives. And personally, I think Senator Manchin will nix the U.S. union-made requirement.

The base amount of the newly proposed tax credit for qualified filers remains $4,000, as it is today, with another $3,500 available if the EV’s battery pack includes at least 40 kilowatt-hours of capacity. In the case of plug-in hybrids, the gas tank cannot exceed 2.5 gallons.

The bill also calls for resetting the clock for makers Tesla and GM’s Chevrolet which had tapped out the incentives allowed under earlier legislation, Nadel said. Current law for the credits phases them out after a particular automaker sells over 200,000 qualifying vehicles.

Other observers said non-U.S. production for some or all of the parts that go into EVs will rule out some of the major makers extending the full credit to their customers, considering they can’t quickly return production to the U.S.

As proposed, EVs qualify for another $4,500 in the tax credit if an automaker makes the vehicle in the U.S. with a union workforce. Another $500 comes into play for automakers using a U.S.-made battery, for a maximum of $12,500 available to qualifying filers.

Today, the only vehicles that would qualify for anywhere near the full proposed credit is GM’s Chevrolet Bolt EV and Bolt EUV, auto site Road Show said.



Yeah Ford's only EV right now, the Mustang Mach E is built in Mexico.

GM is also investing in EV production in Mexico.

DETROIT — General Motors plans to invest more than $1 billion in Mexico to produce electric vehicles, the company announced Thursday.​
I'm surprised the Bolt fully qualifies. GM buys the entire drive train - battery pack, charger, inverter and traction motor all from LG. Plus the infotainment system.
 
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PSUEngineer89

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Yeah Ford's only EV right now, the Mustang Mach E is built in Mexico.

GM is also investing in EV production in Mexico.

DETROIT — General Motors plans to invest more than $1 billion in Mexico to produce electric vehicles, the company announced Thursday.​
I'm surprised the Bolt fully qualifies. GM buys the entire drive train - battery pack, charger, inverter and traction motor all from LG. Plus the infotainment system.
You can bet that Trump would not have signed into legislation any incentives for EVs that are produced in Mexico.

Whether you agree with subsidies (and I do not), there can be no disputing that statement.

He would have said: "OK, you guys want me to sign this. Tell me where you're building them in the USA"

Of course, union members would celebrate this.

Union "leadership" like Frank, don't really give a damn.
 

rumble_lion

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You can bet that Trump would not have signed into legislation any incentives for EVs that are produced in Mexico.

Whether you agree with subsidies (and I do not), there can be no disputing that statement.

He would have said: "OK, you guys want me to sign this. Tell me where you're building them in the USA"

Of course, union members would celebrate this.

Union "leadership" like Frank, don't really give a damn.

You can bet that Trump would not have signed into legislation any incentives for EVs that are produced in Mexico.

Whether you agree with subsidies (and I do not), there can be no disputing that statement.

Nobody has signed anything yet. They are all waiting for president Manchin to decide what will be in the bill.

Of course, union members would celebrate this.

Ahhh, not really.

The United Auto Workers union, in fact, has voiced concerns about being too hasty with an EV transition because of the potential impact on industry jobs. Since electric vehicles generally have 30% to 40% fewer parts and are simpler to build, fewer workers will be needed to assemble them. That will likely mean a reshuffling of jobs, as workers who once made engines, transmissions and other components for gas-powered cars have to switch to electric motors and batteries.
 

The Spin Meister

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Yeah Ford's only EV right now, the Mustang Mach E is built in Mexico.

GM is also investing in EV production in Mexico.

DETROIT — General Motors plans to invest more than $1 billion in Mexico to produce electric vehicles, the company announced Thursday.​
I'm surprised the Bolt fully qualifies. GM buys the entire drive train - battery pack, charger, inverter and traction motor all from LG. Plus the infotainment system.
I wonder how many illegal immigrants from the rest of Central and S America work in all those Mexican auto factories? How many from the Caribbean, Africa, the Mid East, and the rest of the planet? How does Mexico treat those illegal immigrants?
 
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rumble_lion

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I wonder how many illegal immigrants from the rest of Central and S America work in all those Mexican auto factories? How many from the Caribbean, Africa, the Mid East, and the rest of the planet? How does Mexico treat those illegal immigrants?

Hmmmm, I dunno. I wonder why we are giving incentives to GM and Ford so they can create jobs in Mexico. You know they aren't building those cars in Mexico to sell in the Mexican market.
What a stupid and convoluted policy.

If we want fewer gas engine cars tax gasoline by $4 per gallon.

LdN

If we want fewer gas engine cars tax gasoline by $4 per gallon.

It's just not possible to switch all car manufacturing over to EV's overnight. Your policy would just hurt the poorest people the most.

To fix that flaw you could enact a revenue neutral carbon tax.
 
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roswelllion

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I didn't know Ford had partnered with Amazon to make Rivian. My guess is that's how Ford got the technology to make the Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightening. Also, I didn't know the Mustang Mach-E is made in Mexico.

Anyway, here are some of the details of what qualifies and how much. Keep in mind manufacturers will markup the vehicle for at least half the rebate amount. How much you get of the other half will depend on: 1) demand for the model you're considering, 2) your haggling skills and 3) the continued availability of ICE vehicle alternatives. And personally, I think Senator Manchin will nix the U.S. union-made requirement.

The base amount of the newly proposed tax credit for qualified filers remains $4,000, as it is today, with another $3,500 available if the EV’s battery pack includes at least 40 kilowatt-hours of capacity. In the case of plug-in hybrids, the gas tank cannot exceed 2.5 gallons.

The bill also calls for resetting the clock for makers Tesla and GM’s Chevrolet which had tapped out the incentives allowed under earlier legislation, Nadel said. Current law for the credits phases them out after a particular automaker sells over 200,000 qualifying vehicles.

Other observers said non-U.S. production for some or all of the parts that go into EVs will rule out some of the major makers extending the full credit to their customers, considering they can’t quickly return production to the U.S.

As proposed, EVs qualify for another $4,500 in the tax credit if an automaker makes the vehicle in the U.S. with a union workforce. Another $500 comes into play for automakers using a U.S.-made battery, for a maximum of $12,500 available to qualifying filers.

Today, the only vehicles that would qualify for anywhere near the full proposed credit is GM’s Chevrolet Bolt EV and Bolt EUV, auto site Road Show said.


I am not so sure Ford got the BEV technology from Rivian. It really is pretty straightforward. As I understand Rivian wanted 2 partners 1 tech partner and they chose Amazon. Probably helped the Amazon placed an order for 100,000 delivery vans. 2 They wanted someone to help them with building trucks in volume. Ford is /was the obvious choice. I think i heard last week Amazon owns 20% and Ford 12%. At $120 billion market cap not a bad return for an investment of about $750 million by Ford and $1.2 billion by Amazon. Further most expect Ford to exit the investment since they will be direct competitors but Amazon and Rivian are supposed to be "tight". Back to your post. As long as demand is high [Ford Lightening, Tesla, Rivian etc don't expect to get any of it back. The manufacturers will just raise the price. Current economics are not great for BEV's so they will use this money to improve margins.
 
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PSUEngineer89

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You can bet that Trump would not have signed into legislation any incentives for EVs that are produced in Mexico.

Whether you agree with subsidies (and I do not), there can be no disputing that statement.

Nobody has signed anything yet. They are all waiting for president Manchin to decide what will be in the bill.

Of course, union members would celebrate this.

Ahhh, not really.

The United Auto Workers union, in fact, has voiced concerns about being too hasty with an EV transition because of the potential impact on industry jobs. Since electric vehicles generally have 30% to 40% fewer parts and are simpler to build, fewer workers will be needed to assemble them. That will likely mean a reshuffling of jobs, as workers who once made engines, transmissions and other components for gas-powered cars have to switch to electric motors and batteries.
You know full well I'm talking about IF Electric Vehicles are going to be made that Union Workers will be for Trump's ideas of making them in the USA and not financing auto companies to make them in Mexico.
 

Cosmos

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What a stupid and convoluted policy.

If we want fewer gas engine cars tax gasoline by $4 per gallon
Biden's energy policy is already doing that.

That’s a silly idea. Not everyone can immediately switch to electric.
See above. Vote democrat.

GM is also investing in EV production in Mexico.

DETROIT — General Motors plans to invest more than $1 billion in Mexico to produce electric vehicles, the company announced Thursday.I'm surprised the Bolt fully qualifies. GM buys the entire drive train - battery pack, charger, inverter and traction motor all from LG. Plus the infotainment system.
So much for Biden peddling them thar "good-paying Amerikun union jobs." He lies again. But yeah, Mary Barra comes across as a genius. She'll take that "skateboard" platform made by LG, slap a few different bodies on it and call it a day. :cool: So regardless of what GM model you buy you're getting the same basic platform sans a few bends in the sheet metal as well as the badging. GM resorts to its old tricks again when it had 43 brands...


Further most expect Ford to exit the investment since they will be direct competitors but Amazon and Rivian are supposed to be "tight".
Yep. The announcement was just made. Ford is taking its IPO money and running.
 

SLUPSU

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I am not so sure Ford got the BEV technology from Rivian. It really is pretty straightforward. As I understand Rivian wanted 2 partners 1 tech partner and they chose Amazon. Probably helped the Amazon placed an order for 100,000 delivery vans. 2 They wanted someone to help them with building trucks in volume. Ford is /was the obvious choice. I think i heard last week Amazon owns 20% and Ford 12%. At $120 billion market cap not a bad return for an investment of about $750 million by Ford and $1.2 billion by Amazon. Further most expect Ford to exit the investment since they will be direct competitors but Amazon and Rivian are supposed to be "tight". Back to your post. As long as demand is high [Ford Lightening, Tesla, Rivian etc don't expect to get any of it back. The manufacturers will just raise the price. Current economics are not great for BEV's so they will use this money to improve margins.

Ford originally had plans to co-develop an EV platform with Rivian and had a member on Rivian's board, Ford has cancelled those plans and the board member is no longer there. As you stated they are 12% investors.
 
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tIUguy2

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The great State of New Jersey is also offering an additional $5000 credit and no sales tax on qualifying electric vehicles.
Must be nice to live in such a small, inconsequential state. Congrats!
 

rumble_lion

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You know full well I'm talking about IF Electric Vehicles are going to be made that Union Workers will be for Trump's ideas of making them in the USA and not financing auto companies to make them in Mexico.

Yeah, you should know full well that they would rather not make EV's at all.

GM and Ford sure have it easy. They have a work force that doesn't want to make EV's and a sales force(dealerships) that don't want to sell them. This is going work out great.
 

rumble_lion

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Biden's energy policy is already doing that.


See above. Vote democrat.


So much for Biden peddling them thar "good-paying Amerikun union jobs." He lies again. But yeah, Mary Barra comes across as a genius. She'll take that "skateboard" platform made by LG, slap a few different bodies on it and call it a day. :cool: So regardless of what GM model you buy you're getting the same basic platform sans a few bends in the sheet metal as well as the badging. GM resorts to its old tricks again when it had 43 brands...



Yep. The announcement was just made. Ford is taking its IPO money and running.

So much for Biden peddling them thar "good-paying Amerikun union jobs." He lies again. But yeah, Mary Barra comes across as a genius. She'll take that "skateboard" platform made by LG, slap a few different bodies on it and call it a day. :cool: So regardless of what GM model you buy you're getting the same basic platform sans a few bends in the sheet metal as well as the badging. GM resorts to its old tricks again when it had 43 brands...

I sure hope you are wrong. Instead creating 3 dozen crappy EV's why can't they just create 2 or 3 really good ones?
 

The Spin Meister

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So much for Biden peddling them thar "good-paying Amerikun union jobs." He lies again. But yeah, Mary Barra comes across as a genius. She'll take that "skateboard" platform made by LG, slap a few different bodies on it and call it a day. :cool: So regardless of what GM model you buy you're getting the same basic platform sans a few bends in the sheet metal as well as the badging. GM resorts to its old tricks again when it had 43 brands...

I sure hope you are wrong. Instead creating 3 dozen crappy EV's why can't they just create 2 or 3 really good ones?
That’s what GM has always done. Years ago they had an ad with ‘99 new models’ showing all these cars on a big race track. Truth was....it was about five models with each having 20 variations.
 
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rumble_lion

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That’s what GM has always done. Years ago they had an ad with ‘99 new models’ showing all these cars on a big race track. Truth was....it was about five models with each having 20 variations.

In this case sadly it's much worse.

Just recently at the LA auto show GM had one the largest displays on the main floor. They did not have a single EV on display. No concept cars, nothing at all.

Mary Barra - "Wait for us! - We are the leaders!

 
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ao5884

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There haven't been any handouts for Tesla's for a couple of years. Demand is through the roof.
And if they continue to improve their designs they will surpass ICE in 10to15 years. The point is we don't need not should we be giving handouts to buy certain products...the market will sort things out just fine on its own
 

ao5884

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There haven't been any handouts for Tesla's for a couple of years. Demand is through the roof.
And if they continue to improve their designs they will surpass ICE in 10to15 years. The point is we don't need not should we be giving handouts to buy certain products...the market will sort things out just fine on
 

pawrestlersintn

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Hmmmm, I dunno. I wonder why we are giving incentives to GM and Ford so they can create jobs in Mexico. You know they aren't building those cars in Mexico to sell in the Mexican market.


If we want fewer gas engine cars tax gasoline by $4 per gallon.

It's just not possible to switch all car manufacturing over to EV's overnight. Your policy would just hurt the poorest people the most.

To fix that flaw you could enact a revenue neutral carbon tax.
Now you're worried about poor people, but not when you're pushing Dutch windmills?
 

PSUEngineer89

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Yeah, you should know full well that they would rather not make EV's at all.

GM and Ford sure have it easy. They have a work force that doesn't want to make EV's and a sales force(dealerships) that don't want to sell them. This is going work out great.
I don't know about any of that.

If Ford and GM bet wrong on EVs, guess what should happen?

The market will punish them. And it will open up space for a new car company.

That's how it's supposed to work.
 
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