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Why do so many spend their time looking to find someone to blame? Since you clearly aren't working on solutions you, and many others, should just shut your mouths.

They'll be plenty of time later to start blaming...

^^enabler^^
 
Hey Agoodnapbully— when you take care of Covid patients without appropriate PPE and see the fear in cancer patient’s eyes like an oncologist does, don’t lecture me. We are all Penn State proud and can be civil- Class of 82( I worry that I’m bringing virus home every night after working 14 hours)
 
Luckily some local community have sewn masks for us to be partly safe for 1.5 weeks— but we probably will see surge in Pa next three weeks and need 8 weeks at least to make it through. Where is the federal govt?? We don’t have nearly enough N95 masks for our er or icus— we are carrying a bag around and washing and keeping masks for a week— health care workers will die at 3x rate of regular citizens.

100k Americans have been affected /already and over 1000 have died — we are just getting started!! Our pres is saying mortality is not too bad!! It’s not all
elderly either— the elderly deserve our greatest respect anyways, but many in 50s
 
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How did the Anti Science movement lead to this current mess and why do half of Americans approve the (federal)government malpractice??(not including governors)

I put my life on the frontline of this mess and still don’t understand, nor do most of the healthcare workers in hospitals.
I appreciate your efforts, I really do, but I don't know where/how an "anti-science" movement has anything to do with this.

As I see it, a dangerous new virus broke out in a country that tried to quash the news; the WHO was complicit in that. A courageous whistleblower got the word out, and the crisis was on. No government in the western world, other than So Korea (IMHO), addressed the crisis quickly. In the United States, government inertia is a feature, not a bug - agencies are so bound up in rules, procedures, and red tape that it is impossible to get them to move quickly. These agencies might practice or "war game" their response to potential crises but only after the real thing hits does the real learning begin.

There will be plenty of time to assign blame, at this point, I don't know where that gets us. There are only so many qualified researchers & scientists who have the intellectual horsepower to come up with treatments and vaccines. All we can do is produce the supplies needed to treat the sick and hope the smart guys can develop something more permanent.
 
I appreciate your efforts, I really do, but I don't know where/how an "anti-science" movement has anything to do with this.

As I see it, a dangerous new virus broke out in a country that tried to quash the news; the WHO was complicit in that. A courageous whistleblower got the word out, and the crisis was on. No government in the western world, other than So Korea (IMHO), addressed the crisis quickly. In the United States, government inertia is a feature, not a bug - agencies are so bound up in rules, procedures, and red tape that it is impossible to get them to move quickly. These agencies might practice or "war game" their response to potential crises but only after the real thing hits does the real learning begin.

There will be plenty of time to assign blame, at this point, I don't know where that gets us. There are only so many qualified researchers & scientists who have the intellectual horsepower to come up with treatments and vaccines. All we can do is produce the supplies needed to treat the sick and hope the smart guys can develop something more permanent.

have you watched Fox News?

I am of average intelligence. Back in January I called my dad who is 70, begged him to start pulling out money from his stocks (slowly) because it was clear, absolutely clear at that time this would happen.

and what did our government do? Nothing? Again, I saw this. It was clear.

meanwhile up until this week, my dad, and avid Fox News and rush Limbaugh listener thought this was a hoax.

Now he is a 70 year old man down in Florida not taking precautions he should. Because he thinks this is all an Illuminati hit on his president
 
Here is what would save lives:

1) Federal govt tell Gilead that Expanded access Remesdevir (which looks promising in saving lives) becomes available tomorrow to pts on ventilators— they gave small number of single patient compassionate doses then said too many requests and they have to start a new expanded access program —and nobody got drug this week and people died— people are dying due to fda/ Gilead bureaucracy—

2)Pay companies to mass produce mask (N95 and surgical) and gowns/gloves and get out to all
Hospitals— instead of states and hospitals being gouged by Chinese suppliers and fighting each other for limited supplies

3) Get our new 3 hr and 15 min Covid testing equipment out all over country so positives can be quarantined

4) Let Fauci and scientists make the calls until lives out of danger
 
I didn’t mean to vent so much — and start World War 3 on board— week of frustration boiled over — 100 k affected not dead thankfully (too tired to post and should just go to sleep)we can still pull out of this mess if federal and state govt work together and let the scientists and experts and doctors make the calls. Sometimes it feels like we live in a third world country not due to lack of resources as a country but due to lack of believing in science and what proper coordination can do. I’m out and thanks for tolerance of a tired worker venting
 
have you watched Fox News?

I am of average intelligence. Back in January I called my dad who is 70, begged him to start pulling out money from his stocks (slowly) because it was clear, absolutely clear at that time this would happen.

and what did our government do? Nothing? Again, I saw this. It was clear.

meanwhile up until this week, my dad, and avid Fox News and rush Limbaugh listener thought this was a hoax.

Now he is a 70 year old man down in Florida not taking precautions he should. Because he thinks this is all an Illuminati hit on his president
Actually, no, I don’t listen to Fox News all that much. Do you have a particular criticism of anything in that post. When the WHO finally issued their emergency warning, Jan 30 I think, Trump issued the travel ban the VERY NEXT DAY.

He was called a racist after doing that.

So pardon me but I don’t believe anything you have to say to me. The ignore button is our friend.
 
Here is what would save lives:

1) Federal govt tell Gilead that Expanded access Remesdevir (which looks promising in saving lives) becomes available tomorrow to pts on ventilators— they gave small number of single patient compassionate doses then said too many requests and they have to start a new expanded access program —and nobody got drug this week and people died— people are dying due to fda/ Gilead bureaucracy—

2)Pay companies to mass produce mask (N95 and surgical) and gowns/gloves and get out to all
Hospitals— instead of states and hospitals being gouged by Chinese suppliers and fighting each other for limited supplies

3) Get our new 3 hr and 15 min Covid testing equipment out all over country so positives can be quarantined

4) Let Fauci and scientists make the calls until lives out of danger
It’s not the fault of this administration - or the last - that the US can’t manufacture a Mother-friggin aspirin. That horse got out of the barn a long time ago.

Trump just forced GM to make ventilators and I can’t imagine that the other supplies aren’t being made. This isn’t Star Trek, there are no replicators. It takes time to gear up, produce, ship and deliver .

This is a once in a century event. The last thing that comes close is the 1918 Spanish Flu. I don’t know how you prepare for something like that.
 
Actually, no, I don’t listen to Fox News all that much. Do you have a particular criticism of anything in that post. When the WHO finally issued their emergency warning, Jan 30 I think, Trump issued the travel ban the VERY NEXT DAY.

He was called a racist after doing that.

So pardon me but I don’t believe anything you have to say to me. The ignore button is our friend.
Maybe he should have called de Blasio in, oh, as late as March 1st.

fact is nobody knows what to do. They are making it up as they go along the best they can. Sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong. Their party will point out the decisions made that support their agenda and the other side will point out the others. It is truly disgusting. I never thought I would see Americans hoping other Americans suffer to win political points.
 
I didn’t mean to vent so much — and start World War 3 on board— week of frustration boiled over — 100 k affected not dead thankfully (too tired to post and should just go to sleep)we can still pull out of this mess if federal and state govt work together and let the scientists and experts and doctors make the calls. Sometimes it feels like we live in a third world country not due to lack of resources as a country but due to lack of believing in science and what proper coordination can do. I’m out and thanks for tolerance of a tired worker venting
I for one, thank you for your service and pray you stay safe! My girlfriend is in the Health sector and is dealing with this daily. She vents when she comes home for an hour and I LISTEN. Get it off your chest, don't hold it inside. None of truly know the stress doctors, nurses and health care professionals are under. I've NEVER seen her like this and I don't blame her, its horrific and only going to be worse for a while.....Stay safe and THANK YOU for your service
 
have you watched Fox News?

I am of average intelligence. Back in January I called my dad who is 70, begged him to start pulling out money from his stocks (slowly) because it was clear, absolutely clear at that time this would happen.

and what did our government do? Nothing? Again, I saw this. It was clear.

meanwhile up until this week, my dad, and avid Fox News and rush Limbaugh listener thought this was a hoax.

Now he is a 70 year old man down in Florida not taking precautions he should. Because he thinks this is all an Illuminati hit on his president

I suspect you are just posturing, but let us take you at your word. The argument/line of attack against “crazy right wing” TV and radio hosts is that they are fleecing their “stupid” listeners hawking things like Simply Safe Security, Goldline, and various pre-prepared foods. They are telling their listeners daily to be prepared for a crisis. The Left’s standard operating procedure is to mock “Preppers” incessantly.

So two things come to mind:

1) Either your dad is of such low intelligence that he did the opposite of what every right wing commentator he listens to tells him to do and probably could not be helped in any way shape or form by anyone

or

2) You, like most Americans, lack any ability to empathize with anyone who has an opposing opinion, and respond instead to a caricature of what motivates people with whom you disagree.


The people on this board who are panicking, for the most part, are they who would mock people like me who in their home keep a gun, a safe with precious metals and a year supply of food and water. People who shop at Costco and routinely buy in bulk are apparently hopeless, paranoid rubes. Yet, I have had to go shopping once since the middle of February. I can help others because I am prepared. Meanwhile in a completely predictable turn of irony the people who are constantly telling us, “Hey let government do more” are completely panicked. But because they are completely incapable of mature self-reflection they don’t have the ability to consider that maybe a command and control style, single payer-type of government is not suited to do really anything quickly and efficiently. The answer is always to mock and lob completely contradictory criticisms at the Right when if you had listened to “us” the country would be fine right now. It is not fly over country where we live which is spreading the pandemic.
 
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Maybe he should have called de Blasio in, oh, as late as March 1st.

fact is nobody knows what to do. They are making it up as they go along the best they can. Sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong. Their party will point out the decisions made that support their agenda and the other side will point out the others. It is truly disgusting. I never thought I would see Americans hoping other Americans suffer to win political points.
....and he’s back....

Hey Obli-how ya been?
 
I’m sorry I thought the question was pretty straight forward. He’s a Dr or nurse.

It was a straight forward question just not a clear one. If I had the requisite medical training I would certainly help in hospitals. For me, that fits in well with my philosophy that we must do more so that government can do less. However I don’t wait until times of crisis to help others and, quite frankly, the people with whom I surround myself do not either. I have had many conversations with people across the years where I pointed out that if your world view is such that you believe that “people” are evil or niggardly or malevolent, it is most likely not all people, but simply the ones with whom you choose to associate. I am not so naive as to believe that people are not capable of great malevolence, but in the large number of cases one finds what one seeks in the world.
 
For right now, we need to stop blaming whomever or whatever we don't like for whatever reason and get together and take care of the problem as best we can. There's plenty of time for Monday morning quarterbacking, especially with members of this board. Fix this together, then unleash the whirlwind.
 
have you watched Fox News?

I am of average intelligence. Back in January I called my dad who is 70, begged him to start pulling out money from his stocks (slowly) because it was clear, absolutely clear at that time this would happen.

and what did our government do? Nothing? Again, I saw this. It was clear.

meanwhile up until this week, my dad, and avid Fox News and rush Limbaugh listener thought this was a hoax.

Now he is a 70 year old man down in Florida not taking precautions he should. Because he thinks this is all an Illuminati hit on his president
Although this post has been reported, it's far too funny to remove. Get a grip dude.
 
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i am personally struggling on why politics plays any role at this time. It is a time when all Americans should come together. I personally think the true underlying questions are too difficult too answer and that ultimately is, what’s the value of a human life? And, how many cases of Covid-19 are acceptable? I recognize there are many other underlying complications but until you can identify and agree on those we can fight endlessly about masks and ventilators. It is incredibly morbid to think that way. While I’ll get crucified for comparing the two, but we lost over 60,000 fellow Americans during the 2017-18 flu season. The response was much different. The current estimates, from a University of Washington study, indicate that as many as 81,000 people may die under the current social distancing that is in place. And an incredible burden on our healthcare system too. I simply highlight that there is an incongruent response and wonder if the balance is right. I suggest there may be a graduated response.

I don’t know the right response and our politicians are struggling with the same. Data certainly helps and that has been insufficient but increasing. But someone ultimately needs to answer those two questions and in the current climate there will always be someone to disagree as long as the virus presents itself. Injecting politics seems to cheapen the conversation and tends to minimize the argument.
 
Hey Agoodnapbully— when you take care of Covid patients without appropriate PPE and see the fear in cancer patient’s eyes like an oncologist does, don’t lecture me. We are all Penn State proud and can be civil- Class of 82( I worry that I’m bringing virus home every night after working 14 hours)
I apologize if you really are an oncologist but I find it fairly hard to believe that after 14 hour days an oncologist is coming home to post repeatedly on a message board saying that an anti-science movement has lead to the COVID19 pandemic or our health care systems complete unpreparedness for it. Please let me know where you work as my mother has stage 4 breast cancer and I don't want her near anyone with such an inability to apply logic and reason. I pray that this is merely catching you in a moment of weakness and not really representative of your normal thinking and response.

1) This pandemic is not something we in the US caused and flights from China were halted the day after WHO recognized that this virus was able to spread person to person.

2) By far it appears that NYC and NY/NJ is the real problem in terms of cases and spread. Are you implying that all of NYC and NY/NJ area is anti-science? That makes no sense. I can understand being critical of NY/NJ leaders who have not more quickly implemented measures to reduce community spread or their public statements encouraging traveling away from NY/NJ area. But the people of the hotspot that is dominating the problem in the US and the source of emerging spread to new potential hotspots are not all anti-science.

3) You post as if you are at a hospital in PA. Outside of maybe Philly area, which hospitals should be short on supplies?

4) Why are hospital CEOs and managers not held accountable for the shortages? Is it not their responsibility to planning, budgeting, and execution of emergency level stocks? I've read that NY state passed up purchases of shortages of ventilators in recent years. I'd think that the hospital managers are in the best positions to forecast needs of emergency supplies for their hospital and then budget for it. Why was this not being done?

5) If you are a health care worker than take a deep breath because you appear to be hyperventilating. Take care of yourself and thank you for what you do. But you need to remain calm and level headed and not give in to irrational thoughts. I've been in multiple combat zones in some very tense situations. It's ok to be a little scared on the front lines and that is healthy if it results in additional level of awareness and analysis of risks, mitigation, and strategy. But those who panic are putting themselves in greater risk. You have to be calm, collected, rational, and focused. I pray that all of our health care workers are but we certainly need leaders among them to push the healthcare teams through challenges because many will face them.

url
 
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For right now, we need to stop blaming whomever or whatever we don't like for whatever reason and get together and take care of the problem as best we can. There's plenty of time for Monday morning quarterbacking, especially with members of this board. Fix this together, then unleash the whirlwind.

Yeah that all sounds great. But it doesn’t work that way. Blame first and maybe fix later is the general mantra of politics.
 
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I apologize if you really are an oncologist but I find it fairly hard to believe that after 14 hour days an oncologist is coming home to post repeatedly on a message board saying that an anti-science movement has lead to the COVID19 pandemic or our health care systems complete unpreparedness for it. Please let me know where you work as my mother has stage 4 breast cancer and I don't want her near anyone with such an inability to apply logic and reason. I pray that this is merely catching you in a moment of weakness and not really representative of your normal thinking and response.

1) This pandemic is not something we in the US caused and flights from China were halted the day after WHO recognized that this virus was able to spread person to person.

2) By far it appears that NYC and NY/NJ is the real problem in terms of cases and spread. Are you implying that all of NYC and NY/NJ area is anti-science? That makes no sense. I can understand being critical of NY/NJ leaders who have not more quickly implemented measures to reduce community spread or their public statements encouraging traveling away from NY/NJ area. But the people of the hotspot that is dominating the problem in the US and the source of emerging spread to new potential hotspots are not all anti-science.

3) You post as if you are at a hospital in PA. Outside of maybe Philly area, which hospitals should be short on supplies?

4) Why are hospital CEOs and managers not held accountable for the shortages? Is it not their responsibility to planning, budgeting, and execution of emergency level stocks? I've read that NY state passed up purchases of shortages of ventilators in recent years. I'd think that the hospital managers are in the best positions to forecast needs of emergency supplies for their hospital and then budget for it. Why was this not being done?

5) If you are a health care worker than take a deep breath because you appear to be hyperventilating. Take care of yourself and thank you for what you do. But you need to remain calm and level headed and not give in to irrational thoughts. I've been in multiple combat zones in some very tense situations. It's ok to be a little scared on the front lines and that is healthy if it results in additional level of awareness and analysis of risks, mitigation, and strategy. But those who panic are putting themselves in greater risk. You have to be calm, collected, rational, and focused. I pray that all of our health care workers are but we certainly need leaders among them to push the healthcare teams through challenges because many will face them.

NY and NJ look like problems because we are testing so much more than everywhere else.
 
NY and NJ look like problems because we are testing so much more than everywhere else.
You have to know that it is much more than testing. The testing numbers there are a result of the outbreak there. And yes, testing increases numbers of confirmed cases but NY/NJ is over half of the confirmed cases. It is the epicenter.
 
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I suspect you are just posturing, but let us take you at your word. The argument/line of attack against “crazy right wing” TV and radio hosts is that they are fleecing their “stupid” listeners hawking things like Simply Safe Security, Goldline, and various pre-prepared foods. They are telling their listeners daily to be prepared for a crisis. The Left’s standard operating procedure is to mock “Preppers” incessantly.

So two things come to mind:

1) Either your dad is of such low intelligence that he did the opposite of what every right wing commentator he listens to tells him to do and probably could not be helped in any way shape or form by anyone

or

2) You, like most Americans, lack any ability to empathize with anyone who has an opposing opinion, and respond instead to a caricature of what motivates people with whom you disagree.


The people on this board who are panicking, for the most part, are they who would mock people like me who in their home keep a gun, a safe with precious metals and a year supply of food and water. People who shop at Costco and routinely buy in bulk are apparently hopeless, paranoid rubes. Yet, I have had to go shopping once since the middle of February. I can help others because I am prepared. Meanwhile in a completely predictable turn of irony the people who are constantly telling us, “Hey let government do more” are completely panicked. But because they are completely incapable of mature self-reflection they don’t have the ability to consider that maybe a command and control style, single payer-type of government is not suited to do really anything quickly and efficiently. The answer is always to mock and lob completely contradictory criticisms at the Right when if you had listened to “us” the country would be fine right now. It is not fly over country where we live which is spreading the pandemic.


Nonsense on both sides and you got sucked into it.


sincerely,

the rest of us who don’t watch the tennis match anymore
 
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How did the Anti Science movement lead to this current mess and why do half of Americans approve the (federal)government malpractice??(not including governors)

I put my life on the frontline of this mess and still don’t understand, nor do most of the healthcare workers in hospitals.

"If the virus don't get you, the politicians will"

- Bill Nye
 
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This thread is symbolic of the problem. People criticizing other people’s views instead of using constructive discussion to resolve problems. How about disinfecting masks? UV lights kill viruses. Check to see if the mask holds up if heated in a microwave. Heating in a microwave kills viruses. Soak used masks in alcohol which kills viruses.

There is a special wavelength UV light that doesn’t give you a tan but kills viruses that is in front of the FDA for approval. Rush the approval. Install it at the workplace to reduce the virus risk. Run it at night until proven safe while occupied.

install HEPA filter in every nursing home where a patient has contracted Covid 19 to protect health workers from contracting and spreading the virus. NASA studies show that 99.97% of viruses are filtered out by hepa rated filters. As more hepa filters are available put one in every patients room infected or not in a nursing home. Keep most everyone away from the elderly to keep them safe. The rest of us need to go back to work utilizing appropriate distances and caution.

Somebody has got to pay for all of these cost and please don’t say the government. We are the government who pay taxes to fund the fix. No work, no taxes, no money to fix this.

Yelling at Trump or piling on needless pet projects that have nothing to do with the virus does not solve the problem. Let’s get to work.
 
How did the Anti Science movement lead to this current mess and why do half of Americans approve the (federal)government malpractice??(not including governors)

I put my life on the frontline of this mess and still don’t understand, nor do most of the healthcare workers in hospitals.
as as scientist....there is no anti science movement in America. Come on man. Move this to the test board.
 

Great cartoon and right on target. Except for the Tea Party guy on the right. Somebody should tell Oliphant that the Tea Party hasn't been a serious thing for the last, like, ten years.

Also, there's one really important ingredient not shown there: ringing the firing squad of politicians should be a pack of hyena figures who represent the media and throw hand grenades into the circle.
 
Luckily some local community have sewn masks for us to be partly safe for 1.5 weeks— but we probably will see surge in Pa next three weeks and need 8 weeks at least to make it through. Where is the federal govt?? We don’t have nearly enough N95 masks for our er or icus— we are carrying a bag around and washing and keeping masks for a week— health care workers will die at 3x rate of regular citizens.

100k Americans have been affected /already and over 1000 have died — we are just getting started!! Our pres is saying mortality is not too bad!! It’s not all
elderly either— the elderly deserve our greatest respect anyways, but many in 50s

My mom and her church quilting group are sewing masks as well, from the safety of their own houses. She told me she never though she would be re-joining a war effort. She said when she was a kid her girl scout troop rolled bandages in 1942-43.
Crazy times.
 
Here’s the subtle rub that can’t let us get to the discussion your are suggesting we need to have. 40%+/- of Americans don’t think a) there is a health crisis and b) believe established experts who are warning of impending danger and the actions to take.

Just 2 weeks ago this was being touted as a hoax. Am I right?

This is the age we live in: Information overload and systematic disinformation that causes chaos, confusion and division.

I think made up statistics intended to further one's agenda certainly help spread chaos and confusion and division.
 
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If you want to blame anyone blame the Chinese Government they were warned in 2007 after the SARS outbreak that the practice of eating exotic animals in these wet market, especially bats, was a time bomb waiting to go off and they did nothing. Was the US and the world unprepared, yes but who could have predicted the impact this would have. Maybe we now will build some type of national stockpile of medical equipment for the future - will be interesting to see if the next shiny object distracts the politicians from doing this after the crises ends - I expect they will be more concerned with assigning blame to score political points.
 
If you want to blame anyone blame the Chinese Government they were warned in 2007 after the SARS outbreak that the practice of eating exotic animals in these wet market, especially bats, was a time bomb waiting to go off and they did nothing. Was the US and the world unprepared, yes but who could have predicted the impact this would have. Maybe we now will build some type of national stockpile of medical equipment for the future - will be interesting to see if the next shiny object distracts the politicians from doing this after the crises ends - I expect they will be more concerned with assigning blame to score political points.

Don’t be a cutie pie
 
If you want to blame anyone blame the Chinese Government they were warned in 2007 after the SARS outbreak that the practice of eating exotic animals in these wet market, especially bats, was a time bomb waiting to go off and they did nothing. Was the US and the world unprepared, yes but who could have predicted the impact this would have. Maybe we now will build some type of national stockpile of medical equipment for the future - will be interesting to see if the next shiny object distracts the politicians from doing this after the crises ends - I expect they will be more concerned with assigning blame to score political points.

You have got to be kidding me. Everyone predicted this. The NSC wrote a playbook anticipating this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po...-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285
 
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