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Anybody know the history of the 2nd Ring on mat between OB and inner-ring?

Franklin_Restores_TheTradition

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Oct 25, 2015
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The purpose of the "inner ring" is quite clear - it has the markings for the down wrestlers hands & knees at its center - but it also the marking where contestants face each other in neutral with their feet on the perimeter. Growing up, I don't remember our mats having the 2nd Ring that you see on many mats today. What is the history on the 2nd Ring and what was its original purpose? (doesn't seem to have a purpose any longer). I have a feeling it was originally created to denote that a wrestler moving backward from center has given up enough territory where stalling could be called, but I'm just guessing.
 
The purpose of the "inner ring" is quite clear - it has the markings for the down wrestlers hands & knees at its center - but it also the marking where contestants face each other in neutral with their feet on the perimeter. Growing up, I don't remember our mats having the 2nd Ring that you see on many mats today. What is the history on the 2nd Ring and what was its original purpose? (doesn't seem to have a purpose any longer). I have a feeling it was originally created to denote that a wrestler moving backward from center has given up enough territory where stalling could be called, but I'm just guessing.

Or maybe when I have seen the mats, they were for venues that supported, Greco-Roman, Freestyle and Folkstyle.
 
The purpose of the "inner ring" is quite clear - it has the markings for the down wrestlers hands & knees at its center - but it also the marking where contestants face each other in neutral with their feet on the perimeter. Growing up, I don't remember our mats having the 2nd Ring that you see on many mats today. What is the history on the 2nd Ring and what was its original purpose? (doesn't seem to have a purpose any longer). I have a feeling it was originally created to denote that a wrestler moving backward from center has given up enough territory where stalling could be called, but I'm just guessing.

Or maybe when I have seen the mats, they were for venues that supported, Greco-Roman, Freestyle and Folkstyle.

Anyway, was thinking it might not be a bad idea to put the 2nd Ring on the Folk mat - if a wrestler goes backwards and crosses it, the ref could start their typical refrain of "work back toward center" or "you need to circle red/green" (whichever would be appropriate), but could also initiate an out-loud count - 5 seconds outside the circle with no effort to move back in could be called. Obviously, it would only apply in neutral and if the wrestlers are "mat wrestling" (or potentially even "scrambling" from neutral - it gets waived off), it doesn't apply.
 
When I wrestled we started with each wrestler on the edge of the inner ring and were required to move in on the whistle. Now the wrestlers begin 2 feet apart at the center of the mat. Don't know if this was the purpose of the ring, just how it was used.
 
My understanding is that the 10 ft. circle really serves no purpose now and a lot of newer mats don't even have it....they just have a large mascot or something of that nature. I don't know historically why it was put there. I use it for different types of games for my middle school kids (sumo, push-pull types of competitions and whatnot) but there is no purpose it serves for the kids or officials in a match other than being a marking point for the center of the mat and possibly helpful in determining whether a wrestler is stalling (staying on the outside of that circle consistently).

Here is something I found:

10-foot circle: Small inner circle on the wrestling mat that wrestlers must attempt to stay within to avoid being penalized for stalling.
 
My understanding is that the 10 ft. circle really serves no purpose now and a lot of newer mats don't even have it....they just have a large mascot or something of that nature. I don't know historically why it was put there. I use it for different types of games for my middle school kids (sumo, push-pull types of competitions and whatnot) but there is no purpose it serves for the kids or officials in a match other than being a marking point for the center of the mat and possibly helpful in determining whether a wrestler is stalling (staying on the outside of that circle consistently).

Here is something I found:

10-foot circle: Small inner circle on the wrestling mat that wrestlers must attempt to stay within to avoid being penalized for stalling.

Interesting, here is a picture of a mat with the 10' Circle I believe:

wrestlingmat4.jpg


So based on what you found, the original intent was to mark an area beyond which the Neutral wrestler would be aware that they have gone into area where if they stay for a prolonged period they could be called for stalling.
 
Just thinking out loud, what is the benefit to the boundaries of the mat being a circle if the mat itself is square? What would be the (+ or -) impact in making the boundary line a square which provides more opportunity for a wrestler to stay in bounds?
 
Interesting, here is a picture of a mat with the 10' Circle I believe:

wrestlingmat4.jpg


So based on what you found, the original intent was to mark an area beyond which the Neutral wrestler would be aware that they have gone into area where if they stay for a prolonged period they could be called for stalling.

Here is another example:

33b485e29551c83f36e64d3789e1b70d.jpg

I actually like the idea of having this additional circle on the mat. It gives the official context for telling the wrestler - hey, if you don't get back in the inner circle, I'm going to ding you.....you're in the stalling area, get back into the inner circle.
 
Just thinking out loud, what is the benefit to the boundaries of the mat being a circle if the mat itself is square? What would be the (+ or -) impact in making the boundary line a square which provides more opportunity for a wrestler to stay in bounds?

Because the ancient origins of wrestling, which is what modern wrestling is based on, have always been conducted in a "ring". The ring was intended to force the competitors to present themselves within a "restricted area" and it is a penalty to back out of the area of your own volition (i.e., fleeing the ring) -- essentially, this is why International Freestyle instituted the "push out" rule (i.e., you are not supposed to leave the ring, so they made it an easy, non-interpretive call - point against the first person exiting the ring.).
 
Just thinking out loud, what is the benefit to the boundaries of the mat being a circle if the mat itself is square? What would be the (+ or -) impact in making the boundary line a square which provides more opportunity for a wrestler to stay in bounds?

actually, if you go back in time, you'll find in NCAA wrestling rules both the mats and the wrestling area were square. In addition, there were ropes and ring posts around the mat (like a boxing "ring").

I believe 1941 was the last year that ropes and posts were legal.

As for square wrestling areas, I don't recall exactly when that became illegal. Due to the costs associated with replacing the mats, there was a period where both square and round wrestling areas were legal. I believe it was sometime during the 1960s when the NCAA rules mandated that the wrestling area had to be circular.

androcles can probably offer a lot more info on this, and I hope that he does.
 
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My understanding is that the 10 ft. circle really serves no purpose now and a lot of newer mats don't even have it....they just have a large mascot or something of that nature. I don't know historically why it was put there. I use it for different types of games for my middle school kids (sumo, push-pull types of competitions and whatnot) but there is no purpose it serves for the kids or officials in a match other than being a marking point for the center of the mat and possibly helpful in determining whether a wrestler is stalling (staying on the outside of that circle consistently).

Here is something I found:

10-foot circle: Small inner circle on the wrestling mat that wrestlers must attempt to stay within to avoid being penalized for stalling.

Did some further research on this and apparently it is many of the High School Rules Federations that have gone to the 10' inner circle and 28' diameter overall (they draw the starting lines at the center of the mat with parallel lines for the down position with vertical lines, | | , at each end such that it looks somewhat like a rectangle but the parallel down position lines and vertical lines for neutral are in different colors.). I also found this description for the High School configuration:

Wrestling_Diagram.gif

Wrestling mats are shock-absorbing to provide a safe surface for wrestling, and have markings on them that have specific functions:

Starting lines: Wrestling begins or resumes here with each opponent behind his starting line and at least one foot on the line.

10-foot circle: Small inner circle on the wrestling mat that wrestlers must attempt to stay within to avoid being penalized for stalling.

Boundary line: A 28-foot circle that marks the boundary. Wrestlers are in-bounds when at least one wrestler has his supporting points inside the outer circle. Control is important when this line is crossed, as it determines the starting position when wrestling resumes. If neither player is in control, wrestlers start at the starting line in the neutral position. However, if one wrestler is in control, he can choose to start in any position: top, bottom, or neutral. Wrestlers choose a position that suits their wrestling style.

Protection area: The border of the mat, extending beyond the wrestling area to prevent injury.​

So apparently, it is high school federations that went to this configuration (i.e., 10' inner circle, 28' overall and minimum 5' boundary) -- in essence this would make a 4-piece mat 19' X 19', a 2-piece mat 19' x 38' and a one piece mat 38' x 38'. I went to resilite and they described the exact same set up for the standard high school mats they sell (i.e., 38' x 38' supporting the 10' inner circle a 28' overall wrestling area and a minimum required 5' safety area). According to the description I found above of the high school configuration, the 10' inner circle is intended to be a marker for the wrestlers in neutral and officials that they are supposed to stay within the inner circle in neutral (again, with a probable exception for scrambles onto the mat surface)....and alert them that they have left the inner-circle and need to work their way back in.
 
When I wrestled we started with each wrestler on the edge of the inner ring and were required to move in on the whistle. Now the wrestlers begin 2 feet apart at the center of the mat. Don't know if this was the purpose of the ring, just how it was used.
You are correct. Seems odd even thinking of that now.
 

Yes, basically.....for most NCAA mats, 5 feet from edge would make the inner ring more than 10' - there is no set size in NCAA, I think the minimum ring diameter in NCAA is 32', so 5 feet from the edge would make the inner ring 20' to 25' depending on the size of the mat for that school. Or the NCAA could just go with a 20' ring regardless of size and do as you suggest, 5 second count initiates upon one of the wrestlers leaving the 20' circle while still on their feet (again, rule would probably be waived for Neutral wrestling that goes to the mat in a scramble).
 
Two things...

First, here's the NCAA Contractual Language for MATS;

"Arrangements to secure eight 42’ x 42’ wrestling mats will be made by the national office with
copies of all correspondence sent to the host institution/conference. The host
institution/conference or sponsoring agency should deal directly with the mat company to
confirm drop-off/pick-up. These mats will be supplied by Resilite, the official NCAA mat company.
The NCAA staff, in consultation with the hosts, will determine the color schematic layout of the
various mats."

Soooo...given the 5' apron requirement, the mats all have a 32' diameter wrestling area.

***************************************************************************
Second, here's some history, with credit to Mark Palmer, the author of this info...

Before the mid-1950s, mats usually had a canvas surface, sometimes covered with plastic or rubber, but oftentimes with a fabric such as moleskin or canton flannel which could not be easily wiped clean, and, in fact, might be washed only a couple times a year. As to what was underneath the surface … anything from horsehair to shredded newspapers to straw to wood shavings was the stuff inside mats of the past. These materials did not provide the level of shock absorption -- and safety to wrestlers -- that today's foam-filled mats do.

The dimensions of the wrestling area have also changed over the years. In the 1920s and 30s, the standard mat size was 20-feet square. The NCAA rules published in the 1947 edition of The Official Wrestling Guide stated, "The area of the mat shall not be less than 20 feet by 20 feet, and a 24-foot by 24-foot mat shall be considered standard." Fifteen years later, the 1963 edition of The Official Wrestling Guide had illustrations of minimum mat sizes, including a 34-foot square mat with a 24-foot square wrestling surface marked on it, as well as a round mat with a circular wrestling area of 28 feet in diameter, with a five-foot safety zone extending beyond that. The latest rules mandate a clearly-marked circular wrestling surface of 32-42 feet in diameter, with a minimum of five feet of mat beyond the wrestling surface.

The ring's the thing

Walk into a wrestling meet at Oklahoma State, University of Iowa, University of Northern Iowa, Northwestern or some other colleges back in the 1920s or 30s, and, most likely, at the center of the gym you'd find a roped-off wrestling ring. At some schools -- most notably Oklahoma State -- the ring was raised up off the gym floor, much like we associate with professional wrestling or boxing events today.

uniring.jpg
Wrestling ring at the University of Northern Iowa (Called Iowa State Teachers College at the time)
The wrestling area inside the ring was the same as on the open mats of other colleges -- 20 feet square, with an apron at the edge of the mat. Rules dictated that there be no less than three parallel ropes on each side of the ring, and that the ring posts be padded and set back from the edge of the corners. Unlike professional wrestling, the ropes could not be used in any way during the match; a wrestler could not gain leverage from the ropes, "rebound" off them, or duck through them to take a break.

According to Cowboys Ride Again! -- Bob and Doris Dellinger's book on the history Oklahoma State's wrestling program -- ropes and rings became illegal in 1942, the last full season of college wrestling before a three-year hiatus for World War II. In the 1947 Official Wrestling Guide, in the rules section titled "Mats, Ropes and Costumes" it states in large, bold type: "Ropes and Raised Platforms are Illegal."
 
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Two things...

First, here's the NCAA Contractual Language for MATS;

"Arrangements to secure eight 42’ x 42’ wrestling mats will be made by the national office with
copies of all correspondence sent to the host institution/conference. The host
institution/conference or sponsoring agency should deal directly with the mat company to
confirm drop-off/pick-up. These mats will be supplied by Resilite, the official NCAA mat company.
The NCAA staff, in consultation with the hosts, will determine the color schematic layout of the
various mats."

Soooo...given the 5' apron requirement, the mats all have a 32' diameter wrestling area.

***************************************************************************
Second, here's some history, with credit to Mark Palmer, the author of this info...

Before the mid-1950s, mats usually had a canvas surface, sometimes covered with plastic or rubber, but oftentimes with a fabric such as moleskin or canton flannel which could not be easily wiped clean, and, in fact, might be washed only a couple times a year. As to what was underneath the surface … anything from horsehair to shredded newspapers to straw to wood shavings was the stuff inside mats of the past. These materials did not provide the level of shock absorption -- and safety to wrestlers -- that today's foam-filled mats do.

The dimensions of the wrestling area have also changed over the years. In the 1920s and 30s, the standard mat size was 20-feet square. The NCAA rules published in the 1947 edition of The Official Wrestling Guide stated, "The area of the mat shall not be less than 20 feet by 20 feet, and a 24-foot by 24-foot mat shall be considered standard." Fifteen years later, the 1963 edition of The Official Wrestling Guide had illustrations of minimum mat sizes, including a 34-foot square mat with a 24-foot square wrestling surface marked on it, as well as a round mat with a circular wrestling area of 28 feet in diameter, with a five-foot safety zone extending beyond that. The latest rules mandate a clearly-marked circular wrestling surface of 32-42 feet in diameter, with a minimum of five feet of mat beyond the wrestling surface.

The ring's the thing

Walk into a wrestling meet at Oklahoma State, University of Iowa, University of Northern Iowa, Northwestern or some other colleges back in the 1920s or 30s, and, most likely, at the center of the gym you'd find a roped-off wrestling ring. At some schools -- most notably Oklahoma State -- the ring was raised up off the gym floor, much like we associate with professional wrestling or boxing events today.

uniring.jpg
Wrestling ring at the University of Northern Iowa (Called Iowa State Teachers College at the time)
The wrestling area inside the ring was the same as on the open mats of other colleges -- 20 feet square, with an apron at the edge of the mat. Rules dictated that there be no less than three parallel ropes on each side of the ring, and that the ring posts be padded and set back from the edge of the corners. Unlike professional wrestling, the ropes could not be used in any way during the match; a wrestler could not gain leverage from the ropes, "rebound" off them, or duck through them to take a break.

According to Cowboys Ride Again! -- Bob and Doris Dellinger's book on the history Oklahoma State's wrestling program -- ropes and rings became illegal in 1942, the last full season of college wrestling before a three-year hiatus for World War II. In the 1947 Official Wrestling Guide, in the rules section titled "Mats, Ropes and Costumes" it states in large, bold type: "Ropes and Raised Platforms are Illegal."

Believe the NCAA Rules specify a minimum wrestling area of 32' (i.e., 42' x 42' to accommodate 5' minimum safety area at all points), but can be larger at the discretion of the individual school. I believe High School Rules Federations have adopted a "national standard" with a 28' diameter ring for the wrestling area with a 5' minimum safety area at any point (i.e., 32' x 32' overall mat size whether it is made up of 4, 2 or 1 piece) -- the high school standard setup also prescribes a 10' diameter ring be marked at the center of the mat to designate the intended primary wrestling area for Neutral wrestling when both wrestlers are on their feet (as well as the starting position lines for both Neutral and Mat wrestling at the dead-center of the mat) as described in the schematic I attached in an earlier post in this thread.
 
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When I wrestled we started with each wrestler on the edge of the inner ring and were required to move in on the whistle. Now the wrestlers begin 2 feet apart at the center of the mat. Don't know if this was the purpose of the ring, just how it was used.
me too, in fact we changed from starting with one foot touching the inner ring to starting with one foot between the inside slashes while i was in high school.
 
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