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AWN's Pound-for-Pound Award goes to ...

I'll have "This Must Have Been Purely Subjective and The People Who Voted Didn't Look at Stats at All" for $500, please, Alex!
I mean no disrespect to the Ringer, but this award goes to Retherford any way you look at this year's numbers.
 
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I'll have "This Must Have Been Purely Subjective and The People Who Voted Didn't Look at Stats at All" for $500, please, Alex!
I mean no disrespect to the Ringer, but this award goes to Retherford any way you look at this year's numbers.

Yea, no doubt, but like Tom is implying, I can see Ringer - he was very dominant this year, nobody really even scared him - but the shocking part is I-Mar #2 and Cox #3 over Z-train? Huh?
 
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I guess Zain's 28.5 points at nationals didn't impress them.

In the last 8 years ... I didn't look back any further... only David Taylor's 30 point blitz in 2012 was better. Not even the great Jordan Burroughs could match it.
 
I guess what I don't understand is why this happens when I'd submit that awarding these trophies and titles to wrestlers should be easier and less subject to subjectivity than, say, the Heisman. We're not comparing QB's to running backs to wide receivers to determine who was the best football player. We're comparing wrestlers who wrestled wrestlers to wrestlers who wrestled wrestlers. We can compare black and white numbers to see who had the most wins, pins, techs, majors, avg team points scored per match, average team points vs. end of the year all Americans, etc. There are cases when one candidate might have one or two more wins while another has a couple more pins while another has scored more avg. team points. Then the water is a bit more muddy. But in the Ringer vs. Retherford talk, that wasn't the case. Retherford had more wins, more pins, more bonus point wins, more dominance through Nationals. We can split hairs and debate other things till the cows come home (or at least till a new season starts and gives us new topics), but as much as I respect the Ringer, I just don't understand how he beats Retherford in ANY award this year that is only supposed to consider this year. I know the Hodge considers their whole career, but ONLY if the record, pins, etc. don't point to a clear winner. Again, I'll reiterate my respect for Ringer. Tremendous wrestler that we'd have loved to have in the blue and white. But his numbers simply don't trump Zain's.
 
Who did Dieringer beat on Flo's P4P list versus who did Z-Pain beat on the P4P list versus who did IMar beat on the P4P list?
 
Who did Dieringer beat on Flo's P4P list versus who did Z-Pain beat on the P4P list versus who did IMar beat on the P4P list?

Dieringer had a win over Issac Jordan. Retherford had two wins, including one major, over Brandon Sorenson. Retherford also had a major decision over Jason Tsirtsis, who was on the P4P list until January.

IMar had close wins over Jason Nolf and Ian Miller, but he was also pinned by a guy on the P4P list, so I'm not sure if it matters who he beat.
 
Neither Sorenson nor Jordan were on Nolf's level, and Tsirtsis wasn't in Nolf's stratosphere this year. IMar beat Nolf *twice* to close out the year. Two wins over Nolf say *far more* than a single win over Isaac Jordan or even two wins over Sorenson, am I right?
 
Just making the point that IMar beat Nolf (who should be Top 3-4 P4P next year!) twice consecutively while none of Z-Pain's wins were anywhere near as good as a win over Nolf.
 
Just making the point that IMar beat Nolf (who should be Top 3-4 P4P next year!) twice consecutively while none of Z-Pain's wins were anywhere near as good as a win over Nolf.

So Zain is ranked ahead of IMar in Flo's p4p ranking.

But you're using Flo's p4p rankings to make the point that IMar should be ranked ahead of Zain in AWN's p4p.

Got it.
 
Big wins are obviously markers of great wrestlers. All of these guys have big wins in their careers. My question is when the big guns (there are not many Nolf, IMar, Stiebers in the world) are removed, can the guy get up every week and dominate inferior competition. This seperates great wrestlers with legandary wrestlers, imo. Zain is proving he is the most dominate wrestler of his time. He will get shots at more big guns and have more big wins... Until then he has proven he will get up for more matches and dominate more than anyone else in the country.

The great ones all make great wrestlers look average. Tyler Caldwell (DT) and Port (Stieber) come to mind. These guys were fantastic wrestlers, the other guy just overshadowed them so much. I think both Ringer and Zain do that to their fields. However, one does it more dominatly than the other.
 
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