ADVERTISEMENT

Bartlett

Lyco1990

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
1,042
968
1
I’ve done some research but am far from an expert. Seems that Beau meets the minimum qualifications for an at-large bid. His win % is 80% over the required 70% and he was ranked 25th in second coaches poll. Still think a long shot as Murin will undoubtedly get one of the coveted spots but in this covid crazy world who else from the other conferences meet two criteria?
 
I have no idea, but I hope he gets one. It seems unlikely that he's a serious candidate for AA status (although Sasso may disagree), but he's a good wrestler that was basically forced up a weight in a shortened year. I suspect that had he been allowed a normal redshirt year or even a normal true freshman year (25 matches or so) and been allowed to stay at his favored weight (it's not his fault that a possible national champion occupied his weight) that he'd be much like the other PSU freshmen that have impressed all of us so much.
 
I’ve done some research but am far from an expert. Seems that Beau meets the minimum qualifications for an at-large bid. His win % is 80% over the required 70% and he was ranked 25th in second coaches poll. Still think a long shot as Murin will undoubtedly get one of the coveted spots but in this covid crazy world who else from the other conferences meet two criteria?
Win % has to be at the weight in which the allocation is for, he is 4-3 at 149. There are 6 at larges available but Murin, Alirez, Yayha/Parriot loser, Cobb from Navy are basically locks. In Big 12 if everything in consolation goes to seed the 6th place guy is not ranked so would not be a concern. That leaves 2 spots left between Bartlett, Omania, Sharenbrock from Big 10, Hunsaker from Utah Valley, Crooks from ASU and Ed Scott from NC State. Will be close.
Also, for what it is worth, Alirez injury defaulted after 1 second in first match and medically forfeited on the back side, so not sure if it is serious or not.
 
Last edited:
My opinion after a little research;
6 At-large

IN Max Murin Iowa 4-3
IN Casey Cobb NAVY 8-1
IN Jarrett Degan ISU 5-2 (May be a qualifier if he wins his semifinal wrestleback match at B12's, in which this one can be thrown back into the pool)
IN Andrew Alirez NCo (As noted, injury def followed by med fft at B12's, throw back into the pool if he can't go)
IN Parriott/Thomas loser of 7th/8th place bout B1G's

That's 5, with two questionable. Those two are HUGE, as it means there will be two more open spots, making it three total.

Of the rest, here's the guys that I see being stack-ranked using the criteria, which I have not done entirely.

Remember, a new Coaches Ranking will come out this week, which will be critical.

Bubble, fighting for a spot
-- Ed Scott NCS 6-6. As of now, Beau has him by win % and Coaches Ranking.
-- Cory Crooks ASU. As of now, Beau has him by Coaches Ranking, Crooks has win %.
-- Tyler Vath EDIN. As of now, Beau has him by Coaches Ranking, Vath has win %.
-- Peyton Omania. As of now, Beau has him by win % and Coaches Ranking.
-- Tristan Lara UNI 5-5. As of now, Beau has him by win % and Coaches Ranking, but Lara may get in by winning his semifinal wrestleback bout at B12's. Even if he loses, he has a win against a qualifier. Lara is more likely to get in based on criteria.
-- Kyle Parco Fresno St 11-1. As of now, Beau has him by Coaches Ranking, Parco has win %. Parco MAY get a qualifier berth by winning his semifinal wrestleback match, in which case he can be removed from this list.
 
Valid point Between now and nationals I think we might expect a few wrestlers getting taken out by the 17 day problem (let's hope noone). I can't remember if that was Big10 or NCAA protocol.

This begs the question. If that happens, is an at large slot simply vacated in the bracket or would it be filled by the next man up? How many of those kids would even keep training, especial from fringe programs?

I am sure Beau will just keep training hard trying to get Nick ready.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ranger Dan
My opinion after a little research;
6 At-large

IN Max Murin Iowa 4-3
IN Casey Cobb NAVY 8-1
IN Jarrett Degan ISU 5-2 (May be a qualifier if he wins his semifinal wrestleback match at B12's, in which this one can be thrown back into the pool)
IN Andrew Alirez NCo (As noted, injury def followed by med fft at B12's, throw back into the pool if he can't go)
IN Parriott/Thomas loser of 7th/8th place bout B1G's

That's 5, with two questionable. Those two are HUGE, as it means there will be two more open spots, making it three total.

Of the rest, here's the guys that I see being stack-ranked using the criteria, which I have not done entirely.

Remember, a new Coaches Ranking will come out this week, which will be critical.

Bubble, fighting for a spot
-- Ed Scott NCS 6-6. As of now, Beau has him by win % and Coaches Ranking.
-- Cory Crooks ASU. As of now, Beau has him by Coaches Ranking, Crooks has win %.
-- Tyler Vath EDIN. As of now, Beau has him by Coaches Ranking, Vath has win %.
-- Peyton Omania. As of now, Beau has him by win % and Coaches Ranking.
-- Tristan Lara UNI 5-5. As of now, Beau has him by win % and Coaches Ranking, but Lara may get in by winning his semifinal wrestleback bout at B12's. Even if he loses, he has a win against a qualifier. Lara is more likely to get in based on criteria.
-- Kyle Parco Fresno St 11-1. As of now, Beau has him by Coaches Ranking, Parco has win %. Parco MAY get a qualifier berth by winning his semifinal wrestleback match, in which case he can be removed from this list.
Cool. Thanks, rmg and Roar. So there’s more than a Lloyd’s chance!
 
Alirez is interesting. 4-1. With injury default out of Big 12 tourney. Wins over wrestlers that are 0-10, 1-5, 5-8 and 8-7. Only completed 1 match since 1/8 against Utah Valley’s 6th string 141 wrestling up a weight. Only 1 match against a wrestler in coaches ranking. #29 who he beat, Hunsaker, who is wrestling for 7th. Also beat Jensen, who he Injury defaulted against. Jensen is in the 3-6 pool. Wins one and he is in.

Ed Scott 1 good win Finesilver, who he also lost to.
 
Last edited:
Omania has a win over a qualifier in Van Brill. Say what you will, but, Murin going 0-2 did not do Beau any favors.
 
Murin’s performance while helping us in the team race this weekend, hurts our chances of seeing BB in 2 weeks
 
I’ve done some research but am far from an expert. Seems that Beau meets the minimum qualifications for an at-large bid. His win % is 80% over the required 70% and he was ranked 25th in second coaches poll. Still think a long shot as Murin will undoubtedly get one of the coveted spots but in this covid crazy world who else from the other conferences meet two criteria?
See link below -- I've done the research, linked to the NCAA rule, and gone step-by-step thru each of the criteria.

The only way he's even eligible is if he makes the Coaches Poll AFTER the Big Ten Tournament. Which is unlikely given his low pre-tournament ranking and his 1-2 finish.

And even then, as Roar said above, lots of guys ahead of him in line for the available at-larges.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Law-Deezie
What really hurt is the Big10 only getting 7. If 8 qualifiers then the Thomas/Parriott winner would not a WC and there would have been a 9th place bracket in which Beau would have seen North again and then Omania, Win both of those and he would face Murin. Win the first two and likely in. Win all three and he would've been in over Murin (better winning %, HtH, higher finish and probably ranked higher.).
 
It seems like reading between the lines Beau was adamant that he wanted to stay at 141 and try to beat Lee for the spot. When it became obvious that he was not going to be able to do that, he bumped up a spot. The decision has hurt him in the short-term. I would hope next year Lee would go up and Beau would stay at 141. I think that gives us the best chance to score bonus at both weights.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zukovski
See link below -- I've done the research, linked to the NCAA rule, and gone step-by-step thru each of the criteria.

The only way he's even eligible is if he makes the Coaches Poll AFTER the Big Ten Tournament. Which is unlikely given his low pre-tournament ranking and his 1-2 finish.

And even then, as Roar said above, lots of guys ahead of him in line for the available at-larges.


I don’t see why he would drop much in the coaches ranking for losing to guys ranked ahead of him. But overall I agree, he just doesn’t have the wins to deserve getting in over some of those other guys.
 
It seems like reading between the lines Beau was adamant that he wanted to stay at 141 and try to beat Lee for the spot. When it became obvious that he was not going to be able to do that, he bumped up a spot. The decision has hurt him in the short-term. I would hope next year Lee would go up and Beau would stay at 141. I think that gives us the best chance to score bonus at both weights.
Next year maybe we redshirt Bartlett, Lee stays at 141, and SVN goes 149?
 
Next year maybe we redshirt Bartlett, Lee stays at 141, and SVN goes 149?

Not exactly sure where Van Ness projects to wrestle. I think if Lee wins a title this year he should bump up, the winner of Beau and SVN goes at 141 and the loser shirts.
 
I don’t see why he would drop much in the coaches ranking for losing to guys ranked ahead of him. But overall I agree, he just doesn’t have the wins to deserve getting in over some of those other guys.
People focus too much on "good losses." (Though if we're completely honest: Bartlett didn't lose to any Top 10 guys at B10s.)

Bartlett has no good wins. He has yet to beat a wrestler ranked in the coaches poll.

The guys ranked below him did better in their conference tourneys, and some of them have good wins. So they move up, which necessitates Bartlett dropping.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ski and Dogwelder
Not exactly sure where Van Ness projects to wrestle. I think if Lee wins a title this year he should bump up, the winner of Beau and SVN goes at 141 and the loser shirts.
149, eventual growth to 157.
 
People focus too much on "good losses." (Though if we're completely honest: Bartlett didn't lose to any Top 10 guys at B10s.)

Bartlett has no good wins. He has yet to beat a wrestler ranked in the coaches poll.

The guys ranked below him did better in their conference tourneys, and some of them have good wins. So they move up, which necessitates Bartlett dropping.

I agree, my point is moreso that losing to higher ranked guys doesn't usually make you drop much unless all those guys behind him had better wins. And to drop completely out of the rankings would be a pretty far drop.

Omania - yes he should jump Bartlett

Scott - beat 2 guys with 1 win each at ACC's. He did have the win over Finesilver previously who he lost to at ACC's, but that was prior to the last coaches ranking. I wouldn't think he would jump Bartlett in the rankings but I guess it's possible , and certainly possible he gets an at-large ahead of Bartlett though even if he's behind him in the coaches ranking.

Hunsaker - similar to Scott, I guess he could jump Bartlett and/or get in ahead of him but it wouldn't be because of anything he did at Big 12's where his 2 wins were over 2 guys ranked in the 80's by wrestlestat. He did have a win over Abas earlier in the year though. He lost to Jensen at Big 12's and Jensen is not currently in the rankings so he'll probably get in.

Lara - did beat Parco of Fresno State at Big 12's who was 12-1 (but not in the coaches rankings, so he may get in them now as he is wrestling for 3/4), and also beat Degen earlier in the year. He may jump Bartlett.

Crooks - didn't beat anyone of note at Pac 12's, don't think he jumps Bartlett in the rankings. He could get an at-large over him due to record/more matches though. Best wins from earlier in the year are over the previously discussed Jensen and Lara

Scharenbrock - his only win was over Kanzler, don't think he jumps Bartlett.

Kemerer - did not wrestle at ACC's, his replacement went 0-2 so there's one that helps Bartlett.

Bottom line: I think he drops, but I wouldn't bet on him dropping out completely.
 
I agree, my point is moreso that losing to higher ranked guys doesn't usually make you drop much unless all those guys behind him had better wins. And to drop completely out of the rankings would be a pretty far drop.

Omania - yes he should jump Bartlett

Scott - beat 2 guys with 1 win each at ACC's. He did have the win over Finesilver previously who he lost to at ACC's, but that was prior to the last coaches ranking. I wouldn't think he would jump Bartlett in the rankings but I guess it's possible , and certainly possible he gets an at-large ahead of Bartlett though even if he's behind him in the coaches ranking.

Hunsaker - similar to Scott, I guess he could jump Bartlett and/or get in ahead of him but it wouldn't be because of anything he did at Big 12's where his 2 wins were over 2 guys ranked in the 80's by wrestlestat. He did have a win over Abas earlier in the year though. He lost to Jensen at Big 12's and Jensen is not currently in the rankings so he'll probably get in.

Lara - did beat Parco of Fresno State at Big 12's who was 12-1 (but not in the coaches rankings, so he may get in them now as he is wrestling for 3/4), and also beat Degen earlier in the year. He may jump Bartlett.

Crooks - didn't beat anyone of note at Pac 12's, don't think he jumps Bartlett in the rankings. He could get an at-large over him due to record/more matches though. Best wins are over the previously discussed Jensen and Lara

Scharenbrock - his only win was over Kanzler, don't think he jumps Bartlett.

Kemerer - did not wrestle at ACC's, his replacement went 0-2 so there's one that helps Bartlett.

Bottom line: I think he drops, but I wouldn't bet on him dropping out completely.
You're not necessarily wrong. It depends on whether or not the coaches are paying that level of attention -- or if the interns they delegate their votes to know anything.

Also if any unranked guys did enough to jump into the rankings.
 
You're not necessarily wrong. It depends on whether or not the coaches are paying that level of attention -- or if the interns they delegate their votes to know anything.

Also if any unranked guys did enough to jump into the rankings.

Yeah it's probably a moot point since he seems like a longshot to get an at-large anyway, I guess you're just saying that if he drops out completely he wouldn't even be eligible, which is a fair point. Guess that would just take away the suspense haha.
 
  • Like
Reactions: El-Jefe
I agree, my point is moreso that losing to higher ranked guys doesn't usually make you drop much unless all those guys behind him had better wins. And to drop completely out of the rankings would be a pretty far drop.

Omania - yes he should jump Bartlett

Scott - beat 2 guys with 1 win each at ACC's. He did have the win over Finesilver previously who he lost to at ACC's, but that was prior to the last coaches ranking. I wouldn't think he would jump Bartlett in the rankings but I guess it's possible , and certainly possible he gets an at-large ahead of Bartlett though even if he's behind him in the coaches ranking.

Hunsaker - similar to Scott, I guess he could jump Bartlett and/or get in ahead of him but it wouldn't be because of anything he did at Big 12's where his 2 wins were over 2 guys ranked in the 80's by wrestlestat. He did have a win over Abas earlier in the year though. He lost to Jensen at Big 12's and Jensen is not currently in the rankings so he'll probably get in.

Lara - did beat Parco of Fresno State at Big 12's who was 12-1 (but not in the coaches rankings, so he may get in them now as he is wrestling for 3/4), and also beat Degen earlier in the year. He may jump Bartlett.

Crooks - didn't beat anyone of note at Pac 12's, don't think he jumps Bartlett in the rankings. He could get an at-large over him due to record/more matches though. Best wins from earlier in the year are over the previously discussed Jensen and Lara

Scharenbrock - his only win was over Kanzler, don't think he jumps Bartlett.

Kemerer - did not wrestle at ACC's, his replacement went 0-2 so there's one that helps Bartlett.

Bottom line: I think he drops, but I wouldn't bet on him dropping out completely.
The really tough thing for Bartlett is that basically all of these guys, not even counting the 4 locks not mentioned, have better wins. Bartlett did not beat a non-maryland 149 starter this year. If Bartlett gets in, it will be eye test/reputation, which is possible.
 
Looks like Thomas lost which will hurt more as the guy who knocked him out didn't AQ either.
 
The really tough thing for Bartlett is that basically all of these guys, not even counting the 4 locks not mentioned, have better wins. Bartlett did not beat a non-maryland 149 starter this year. If Bartlett gets in, it will be eye test/reputation, which is possible.

I agree he probably doesn’t get in the tournament, the prior discussion was more about the coaches rankings.

Even if he does stay in the coaches rankings, the issue is also that guys not in the rankings earned automatic bids (in the MAC and EIWA in particular). Although looking closer, certainly possible that some of those guys enter the rankings too so yes I’ll admit there’s a chance Bartlett drops out of the rankings.
 
Watching the tournament, does anything think Murin looked better than Beau? He didn't perform better. And Murin is what, a RSJR?
 
Beau is going to be really good as we got a gem. All the freshman need to learn how to get by the hands and get angles inDiv1 wrestling. Too bad we had a shorten season. Additionally, some are hard on these kids but with everything going on who knows what is going on with each of them?
 
Not exactly sure where Van Ness projects to wrestle. I think if Lee wins a title this year he should bump up, the winner of Beau and SVN goes at 141 and the loser shirts.

Do we really think there is a dispute on what the outcome of this would be? Even if Nick Lee doesn't win a title this year a TRFR wrestling Nick Lee next year wouldn't be close. Remember, even as good as David Taylor was Cyler Sanderson was destroying him as a TRFR. It would not be close and I think SVN is an elite recruit who will win a NC.

EDIT - Sorry, I originally read it as a Nick Lee and SVN wrestling off at 149lbs.

But a BB and SVN wrestle off would be worth the price of admission.
 
Watching the tournament, does anything think Murin looked better than Beau? He didn't perform better. And Murin is what, a RSJR?
Murin's losses don't look as bad today. Lovett is in the finals and Van Brill is going for 3rd and beat the 2, 3, and 5 on the backside on the way and beat Blockhus earlier this year.
 
Also if any unranked guys did enough to jump into the rankings.
The other factor in the rankings is Michael Carr and Luke Kemerer not wrestling post-season. I imagine that would drop them from the rankings, right?
 
SVN not interested in 141.
No way BoBar or NL jump to 57

this means unless SVN wants to challenge Berge at 57, then one of NL,BoBar, or SVN will be RSing next year.
 
I have made a somewhat large list of at-larges at 149. These are all the people I think would even be considered.

Coaches rank, Conference results, wrestlestat (even though that obviously is not a category), W/L, %, Quality wins, Quality win points all listed in the chart. Head to head (Bartlett lost to Thomas) and common opponents are the other criteria they are supposed to use.

A quality win for at-large purposes is a win against an already qualified NCAA wrestler. I am a little unsure reading the definition if Bartlett's win would count since it was against Valdiviez of NW when he was at 141. Valdiviez was also unranked and has a 38% winning mark so not that strong but it is something.

I think Murin, Thomas, and Cobb are locks to get one. Alirez also beat Jensen and Hunsicker this year so I think he gets one. Omania has wins over Storr and Van Brill. Bartlett has closer results in the all the common opponents with Omania but he did not beat anybody Omania lost to.

As mentioned Bartlett's win % at 149 is just 4-3 (57.1%). I think he definitely needs to come in at worst fifth of this group in the coaches ranking and that gives him a small shot. Vath and the SoCon kids worry me just because of winning percentage and Bartlett obviously doesn't have any common opponents to compare resumes as they obviously had a weaker schedule but you can't prove that statistically as the Big 10 didn't wrestle anybody else.

Murin, Thomas, Cobb, Alirez are all through. Just six spots at this weight so that leaves two for Bartlett, Omania, Scott, Hunsacker, Crooks, Vath, and Porter.

CRCONFWSWLW%QWQWP
5Max MurinIowa0-2 Big Ten5430.57111
12Yahya ThomasNW8th Big Ten20850.61510.5
19Casey CobbNavyCOVID27810.88921
20Andrew AlirezUNCODEF Big 126410.800
26Beau BartlettPSU1-2 Big Ten29830.72710.5
27Peyton OmaniaMSU1-2 Big Ten30460.40023
28Ed ScottNCST4th ACC19660.50011
29C. HunsakerUVU7th Big 1239970.56312
31Cory CrooksASU3rd PAC 1245840.66710.5
32D. ScharenbrockWIS1-2 Big Ten44370.300
Jaron JensenWYO6th Big 12525100.333
J. Van MaanenNDSU8th Big 1248790.438
Dylan MartinezAF0-2 Big 1235940.692
Tyler VathEDIN5th MAC361230.80010.5
Chon PorterCIT3rd SoCon341340.765
Jobe ChishkoVMI1-2 SoCon531040.714
 
Last edited:
Good stuff.

I would say Omania’s probably in with his win over VanBrill at B10’s who finished 3rd and the prior win over Storr. Is entertainment value a factor (kidding)?

That last spot is definitely up for grabs. My guess would be Crooks - decent record, decent conference finish and some decent wins - Lara and Jensen.
 
Flo’s prediction for 149 wildcards:


Bratke's Wildcard Predictions

Max Murin (Iowa)

Yahya Thomas (Northwestern)

Casey Cobb (Navy)

Andrew Alirez (Northern Colorado)

Peyton Omania (Michigan State)

Cory Crooks (Arizona State)

Why These 6 - Max Murin going 0-2 was one of the biggest storylines of the second conference championship weekend. However, due to his high coaches poll ranking and wins over Michael Blockhus and Mikey Carr, he will be safely in the field. His three losses this season were to the first, second, and third-place finishers at the Big Ten Championships.

Yahya Thomas should be comfortably in as well. The Wildcat was ranked in the top 12 of the coaches poll and owns a win over auto qualifier Graham Rooks, and Beau Bartlett who is in the mix for a wildcard.

Casey Cobb did not wrestle at the EIWA Championships but is 8-1 on the year with two wins over auto qualifiers and his only loss coming to EIWA champion PJ Ogunsanya.

Andrew Alirez surprised everyone when he immediately injury defaulted out of the Big 12 Championship, but it shouldn't be a problem for him to get a wildcard. He's undefeated in matches he's actually wrestled and has wins over Hunsaker and Jensen who were hoping for wildcards.

Despite the losing record, Peyton Omania has a good shot of going to St. Louis. All of his losses came to auto qualifiers and he has wins over Kanen Storr and Mike Van Brill who finished fifth and third at the Big Ten Championships.

The final spot came down to Cory Crooks, Ed Scott, and Beau Bartlett. When analyzing the Penn State true freshman, you must remember that the committee will just be looking at his matches at 149. Up at 149, Bartlett is 4-3 with no wins over auto qualifiers. That will keep him out in my opinion.

When comparing Crooks and Scott, they both have one win over auto qualifiers, but Crooks has a better record, and only lost to auto qualifiers while Scott has a loss to Luke Kemerer who is also in the mix for a wildcard. That's why I went with Crooks.
 
I'd take Flo's predictions with a pound of salt as they did not even bother to determine if the wrestlers are actually eligible for consideration for an at large. They included Kemerer and Camacho from Pitt, both of whom were replaced in the line-ups. Also, they have Decatur in -- did he weigh in and forfeit? if not, shold be ineligible.

In the 149s, neither Hunsaker nor Scharenbrock meet the prerequisites. Bartlett and Omania have to stay in top 33 to remain candidates.

Thus, there are really only 9 wrestlers for 6 spots and being an alternate may be critical as (1) Alirez has only wrestled 1 match since January 8 (an extra bout against Utah Valley's sixth string 141 pounder) to keep him eligible for a coaches ranking and (2) Cobb is at Navy, which has shut down all sports activities through at least Wednesday.

My predictions:

Murin
Thomas
Cobb
Alirez

Last two spots Omania (unless losing record is viewed as a veto) and then Crooks/Bartlett/Scott toss-up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSUbluTX
Bartlett vs Crooks
-- HTH: 0 points
-- Quality Wins: Crooks has win over Lara (CR:30), +20, or 15/5 in favor of Crooks
-- Coaches Rank: +15 for Bartlett, but a new Coaches Ranking is forthcoming
-- Conf. Tournament Placement: Crooks 3rd in a 6-man conf, Bartlett top-12 in a 14-man conf, hopefully called a wash and 0 points for either wrestler
-- Results vs common opponents: 0 points, no common opponents
-- Win %: 10 points for Crooks

Coaches rank will be critical. Bartlett's losses at B1G's were to Blockus and Thomas, Crooks loss at Pac-12 was to Abas. A higher CR for Bartlett compared to Crooks, and it might be close, but appears Crooks has a higher total.

Bartlett vs Scott
-- HTH: 0 points
-- Quality Wins: Scott has win over Finesilver (CR:24), +20, or 15/5 in favor of Scott
-- Coaches Rank: +15 for Bartlett, but a new Coaches Ranking is forthcoming
-- Conf. Tournament Placement: Scott 4th in a 6-man conf, Bartlett top-12 in a 14-man conf, surely called a wash and 0 points for either wrestler
-- Results vs common opponents: 0 points, no common opponents
-- Win %: 10 points for Bartlett

Coaches rank will be critical. Bartlett's losses at B1G's were to Blockus and Thomas, Scott's losses at ACC were to Finesilver and Andonian. A higher CR for Bartlett compared to Crooks, and it appears Bartlett has a higher total.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT