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BEST SURROUND SOUND.........................what do you guys suggest?

Michael.Felli

Michael.Felli

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2013
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I've finally decided to update my 1980's 8-track surround sound, which simply means I have more than 2 speakers.

Anyway, some of you guys know your music (and sound). What do you have or what do you wish you had? Is BOSE worth the money? Anything you suggest cheaper than BOSE and better? I want TRUE surround sound.

The lava lamp stays, though.
 
Friends don't let friends buy Bose. I am a former home theater designer/ salesman and here's my opinion.
1) Buy a receiver with Dolby Atmos capability that can handle the new Ultra HD specs. They will run you between $600 and $3,000. You might as well get something that won't be outdated next year. Yamaha an Denon are my favorite brands.
2) Get a good subwoofer (or two) with at least a 10 inch driver. The most bang for the buck can be found from the brands SVS, Powersound Audio and HSU. They are internet direct companies with huge followings and generous in-home audition policies.
3) Get at least 7 speakers: A left, right and center that flank the TV, two side surrounds and two back surrounds that sit behind you. Try to keep them all in the same brand. You don't need huge towers because the subwoofer will handle the bass below 80HZ, but try not to go with tiny "Bose cube" speakers because they sound crappy. Polk Audio, Klipsch, SVS and Powersound Audio all make good bookshelve speakers or slim towers that will blow away Bose.

For more info,check out Crutchfield.com, SVSsound.com and Dolby.com.
 
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Michael.Felli said:
I've finally decided to update my 1980's 8-track surround sound, which simply means I have more than 2 speakers.

Anyway, some of you guys know your music (and sound). What do you have or what do you wish you had? Is BOSE worth the money? Anything you suggest cheaper than BOSE and better? I want TRUE surround sound.

The lava lamp stays, though.
Click to expand...
what the guy above said. the last time I bought speakers I was going with Bose, until I took time, to you know, listen to them. I listened to them and a set of Polks back and forth, and in the end I liked listening to the Polk much better. I have a 5.1 system and like it, my room isn't that big, I think my receiver is an Onkyo.
 
Brazillm10 said:
Friends don't let friends buy Bose. I am a former home theater designer/ salesman and here's my opinion.
1) Buy a receiver with Dolby Atmos capability that can handle the new Ultra HD specs. They will run you between $600 and $3,000. You might as well get something that won't be outdated next year. Yamaha an Denon are my favorite brands.
2) Get a good subwoofer (or two) with at least a 10 inch driver. The most bang for the buck can be found from the brands SVS, Powersound Audio and HSU. They are internet direct companies with huge followings and generous in-home audition policies.
3) Get at least 7 speakers: A left, right and center that flank the TV, two side surrounds and two back surrounds that sit behind you. Try to keep them all in the same brand. You don't need huge towers because the subwoofer will handle the bass below 80HZ, but try not to go with tiny "Bose cube" speakers because they sound crappy. Polk Audio, Klipsch, SVS and Powersound Audio all make good bookshelve speakers or slim towers that will blow away Bose.

For more info,check out Crutchfield.com, SVSsound.com and Dolby.com.
Click to expand...
You just described my living room.

I have Polk Audio speakers with a 7.1 channel system driven by a Denon receiver. The sound is great.
 
Watching football lately drives me to mute the "gasbags". However, there are sound systems out there that allow you to just mute the announcers, while still picking up crowd noise , vedors etc. I'm seriously considering one of those
 
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sluggo72 said:
what the guy above said. the last time I bought speakers I was going with Bose, until I took time, to you know, listen to them. I listened to them and a set of Polks back and forth, and in the end I liked listening to the Polk much better. I have a 5.1 system and like it, my room isn't that big, I think my receiver is an Onkyo.
Click to expand...
Anyone who compares decent speakers like Polk and Klipsch against Bose will prefer the former. At least my clients did.
 
ThePennsyOracle said:
Sorry to hijack this thread.....but what TV would you recommend?

http://bwi.forums.rivals.com/thread...d-need-to-decide-on-return.65225/#post-916109
Click to expand...

Sorry, didn't see that earlier. I don't think you can go wrong with a Samsung, especially since they are one of the few screen manufacturers still around. You can go cheaper and still get a great picture, but out of the box Samsung is awfully nice. The J5500 seems to meet all your minimum specs and looks like it has a built in DirecTV receiver and smart, which does minimize your cabelling. If you do a search on Samsung 50" you'll get lots of options, some cheaper than the one here and they will still provide a great picture. If you add 2014 to your search term you can get a slightly older model that will still be great. Honestly, that 3rd HDMI port was the hardest to find and why the linked TV has the extra bells and whistles. If you can do 2 hdmi's instead you can save yourself a few hundred. The 60hz may seem slow to you, but its native for just about everything out there except a few gaming systems, so it may actually look better than 120 and the upconverting.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00U5...tDescription_secondary_view_div_1448997974364

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s_?ie=UTF8&k=samsung+50"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s_?ie=UTF8&k=samsung+50"+2014
 
Michael.Felli said:
I've finally decided to update my 1980's 8-track surround sound, which simply means I have more than 2 speakers.

Anyway, some of you guys know your music (and sound). What do you have or what do you wish you had? Is BOSE worth the money? Anything you suggest cheaper than BOSE and better? I want TRUE surround sound.

The lava lamp stays, though.
Click to expand...

As others have stated, I do like my Polk speakers. If your speakers are good, there's no need to upgrade them. All you need is a new receiver, powered subwoofer if you don't have one, and center speaker. Seven speakers in a small room can be overkill, especially since most systems just duplicate the rears to get to seven as opposed to 7 true channels of audio. In other words, surround is 5 channels, with a different sound at each speaker. In a 7 speaker setup, the rears are just duplicated, and you still have 5 channels.
 
M&K... http://www.mksound.com/

Klipsch... http://www.klipsch.com/

Polk for a reasonable price... http://www.polkaudio.com/

Paradigm... http://www.paradigm.com/

It all depends on what you want and how much you want to spend. If getting a new receiver make sure it can do this...


The latest HDMI specification to support 4K video at 50/60 frames per second and 21:9 aspect ratio for theater-reference movie display. Now you can add thunderous 7.2-channel surround-sound to blockbuster 4K 50/60 Hz games and movies for a breathtakingly realistic entertainment experience. The TX-NR838 also supports the latest HDCP 2.2 DRM copy protection standard via HDMI Input 3 and the main output. Hollywood studios, satellite broadcasters, and internet video streaming services will adopt HDCP 2.2 for future 4K and Premium Studio Content releases.
 
91Joe95 said:
As others have stated, I do like my Polk speakers. If your speakers are good, there's no need to upgrade them. All you need is a new receiver, powered subwoofer if you don't have one, and center speaker. Seven speakers in a small room can be overkill, especially since most systems just duplicate the rears to get to seven as opposed to 7 true channels of audio. In other words, surround is 5 channels, with a different sound at each speaker. In a 7 speaker setup, the rears are just duplicated, and you still have 5 channels.
Click to expand...
For TV, yes, 5.1 is the norm (for now). For Movies, 7.1 has been the standard for about 8 years and in a year or two, 7.1.4 (7 speakers at ear hight, 1 bass channel and 4 ceiling speakers) will likely be the new standard as 3D audio codecs like Dolby Atmos and DTS-X become the norm. This is especially true with Ultra HD Bluray and Ultra HD broadcasts coming online in 2016. Trust me, I follow this extremely closely and Home AV has been a hobby of mine since the late 1980s.

See below for a detailed explanation of where surround sound is going.
http://blog.dolby.com/2014/06/dolby-atmos-home-theaters-questions-answered/
 
Michael.Felli said:
I've finally decided to update my 1980's 8-track surround sound, which simply means I have more than 2 speakers.

Anyway, some of you guys know your music (and sound). What do you have or what do you wish you had? Is BOSE worth the money? Anything you suggest cheaper than BOSE and better? I want TRUE surround sound.

The lava lamp stays, though.
Click to expand...


Don't buy bose, it's just over priced plastic junk.

I would not buy a receiver without Audyssey room correction, it really makes a difference.

The MultEQ or MultEQ XT versions.

If you have a room that allows you to place the speakers a few feet from the wall you won't find better sound for the buck than a pair of Magnapan mmgs. They are power hungry and should be driven by a separate amp.

http://www.magnepan.com/model_MMG

NHT makes pretty good traditional speakers. I'm using a couple of superzeros for surrounds. Excellent build quality, much better than bose.

http://www.nhthifi.com/products?categories=nht-super-series
 
Cheaper alternative: empty 12 pack, an angry wife, and three screaming little girls.

Thats more sound than a super human man can handle. And its true 360 degree experience.
 
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Brazillm10 said:
For TV, yes, 5.1 is the norm (for now). For Movies, 7.1 has been the standard for about 8 years and in a year or two, 7.1.4 (7 speakers at ear hight, 1 bass channel and 4 ceiling speakers) will likely be the new standard as 3D audio codecs like Dolby Atmos and DTS-X become the norm. This is especially true with Ultra HD Bluray and Ultra HD broadcasts coming online in 2016. Trust me, I follow this extremely closely and Home AV has been a hobby of mine since the late 1980s.

See below for a detailed explanation of where surround sound is going.
http://blog.dolby.com/2014/06/dolby-atmos-home-theaters-questions-answered/
Click to expand...

Are you Buck from Boogie Nights?

 
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Brazillm10 said:
For TV, yes, 5.1 is the norm (for now). For Movies, 7.1 has been the standard for about 8 years and in a year or two, 7.1.4 (7 speakers at ear hight, 1 bass channel and 4 ceiling speakers) will likely be the new standard as 3D audio codecs like Dolby Atmos and DTS-X become the norm. This is especially true with Ultra HD Bluray and Ultra HD broadcasts coming online in 2016. Trust me, I follow this extremely closely and Home AV has been a hobby of mine since the late 1980s.

See below for a detailed explanation of where surround sound is going.
http://blog.dolby.com/2014/06/dolby-atmos-home-theaters-questions-answered/
Click to expand...

Absolutely, yes theaters use 7 channels. That said, they are very large rooms in comparison to even the biggest living rooms. Once you get that sense of motion, you've essentially solved the problem. 5.1, which is the current standard, does that. I'm not saying 7 channels won't be better, but I don't think I'd invest in it yet.
 
91Joe95 said:
Absolutely, yes theaters use 7 channels. That said, they are very large rooms in comparison to even the biggest living rooms. Once you get that sense of motion, you've essentially solved the problem. 5.1, which is the current standard, does that. I'm not saying 7 channels won't be better, but I don't think I'd invest in it yet.
Click to expand...

Is your career related to electronics or A/V technology?

I'm just impressed by your knowledge and intrigued by your thoughts on the subject.
 
Michael.Felli said:
I've finally decided to update my 1980's 8-track surround sound, which simply means I have more than 2 speakers.

Anyway, some of you guys know your music (and sound). What do you have or what do you wish you had? Is BOSE worth the money? Anything you suggest cheaper than BOSE and better? I want TRUE surround sound.

The lava lamp stays, though.
Click to expand...

Unless you want to overpay for marginal quality, stay away from Bose. They do great marketing, though. I've acquired lots of experience with home entertainment systems & equipment over the years, and have multiple setups currently, including one with KEF speakers and another with PSB speakers (both driven by Denon receivers). While these perform well, I've been blown away by my Aperion Audio speakers (pair of towers, center channel & pair of surrounds). I have this matched up with an Outlaw Audio subwoofer & Marantz receiver, and the sound/acoustics are off the charts. Do yourself a favor and audition Aperion Audio.
 
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rumble_lion said:
Don't buy bose, it's just over priced plastic junk.

I would not buy a receiver without Audyssey room correction, it really makes a difference.

The MultEQ or MultEQ XT versions.
Click to expand...

Audyssey is great, but the problem being I don't think many current receivers outside of Denon and Marantz (same company) have it since the Atmos fraud took over.
 
Michael.Felli said:
I've finally decided to update my 1980's 8-track surround sound, which simply means I have more than 2 speakers.

Anyway, some of you guys know your music (and sound). What do you have or what do you wish you had? Is BOSE worth the money? Anything you suggest cheaper than BOSE and better? I want TRUE surround sound.

The lava lamp stays, though.
Click to expand...

If you are looking to save a bunch of money and looking to put together a good low cost system let me suggest the following which I just put together for our vacation home. This combination makes for an excellent low cost system.

Yamaha RX-V677 receiver:
I paid 349 at amazon. The price has been all over the place but it's a very good receiver for the money. Do you really need blue tooth which is pretty much what thenew 679 gives you.

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V67...qid=1449030131&sr=1-1&keywords=Yamaha+rx-v677

Monoprice 10565:
They were identical to the Energy Take Classic, so much so, that Klipsch sued Monoprice and Monoprice made some small changes. The Energy-Take are widely recognized as the best low cost speaker system Some reviewers have said that the Monoprice are now better than the Energy Take. I am amazed at how good they sound and the price ($165) is ridiculously and absurdly low. Check all the reviews. Now they aren't as good as the B&W speakers I have at home but they cost a lot more and these they are practically free.

http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=109&cp_id=10906&cs_id=1090601&p_id=10565&seq=1&format=2

CNET Review of Monprice 10565:

http://hometheater.about.com/od/lou...hannel-Home-Theater-Speaker-System-Review.htm

Add two matching satellites:
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=10800&rep=gab

Put it all together and you get a pretty decent system for under $650 which is pretty amazing. So far I could not be happier.
 
Michael.Felli said:
I've finally decided to update my 1980's 8-track surround sound, which simply means I have more than 2 speakers.

Anyway, some of you guys know your music (and sound). What do you have or what do you wish you had? Is BOSE worth the money? Anything you suggest cheaper than BOSE and better? I want TRUE surround sound.

The lava lamp stays, though.
Click to expand...
Is your system for strictly audio or is this for movies? If its for audio I suggest tower spealers in the front because small speakers in front dont provide enough volume and a proper sound stage has most of the volume coming from the front, with rear speakers in the back preferably built in to the side walls low enough for your ears to pick up the high frequencies. I have a fairly new Rotel (one of the best names in audio) multi channel power amplifier and B&K Components surround sound processor/preamp that I am willing to sell. The B&K is an amazing piece far superior to any type of surround sound receiver.

If its strictly for movies a cheaper way to go would be to get a "soundbar" a horizontal speaker you could place under your flat screen and then supplement it with small rear speakers preferably in the walls for convenience purposes. You could then buy a surround sound receiver used with it. Whether its for Movies or Music you definately should get an inexpensive subwoofer. You could also try Ebay, there are plenty of Surround Sound Receivers "used" that you could get for very reasonble prices.

Just let me know.
 
Mudge1026 said:
Is your system for strictly audio or is this for movies? If its for audio I suggest tower spealers in the front because small speakers in front dont provide enough volume and a proper sound stage has most of the volume coming from the front, with rear speakers in the back preferably built in to the side walls low enough for your ears to pick up the high frequencies. I have a fairly new Rotel (one of the best names in audio) multi channel power amplifier and B&K Components surround sound processor/preamp that I am willing to sell. The B&K is an amazing piece far superior to any type of surround sound receiver.

If its strictly for movies a cheaper way to go would be to get a "soundbar" a horizontal speaker you could place under your flat screen and then supplement it with small rear speakers preferably in the walls for convenience purposes. You could then buy a surround sound receiver used with it. Whether its for Movies or Music you definately should get an inexpensive subwoofer. You could also try Ebay, there are plenty of Surround Sound Receivers "used" that you could get for very reasonble prices.

Just let me know.
Click to expand...

Small speakers in front... that's what subwoofers are for. A sub should be used IMO even when playing 2 channel because front towers will never play as low as a true sub can. Even big box fronts won't go as low as some material requires. Rotel and B&K are very nice, but how new are they? New enough to handle 4k properly?
 
PSULBU said:
Small speakers in front... that's what subwoofers are for. A sub should be used IMO even when playing 2 channel because front towers will never play as low as a true sub can. Even big box fronts won't go as low as some material requires. Rotel and B&K are very nice, but how new are they? New enough to handle 4k properly?
Click to expand...
A sub would play every thing down below 80 hz so satellite speakers have to play everything above 80hz. If you dont have aot of cabinet volume you cant play loud enough effectively. I tried satellites in fromt and they just dont play music loud enough to be satisfying. Now if you are just doing movies satelittes in front would be fine. Rotel is pretty knew but only 60 per channel in 6 channel mode. The B&K's are much older but have been sitting in a box unused for 5 years. I have this really cool Meridien surround sound controller as a replacement.
 
91Joe95 said:
Absolutely, yes theaters use 7 channels. That said, they are very large rooms in comparison to even the biggest living rooms. Once you get that sense of motion, you've essentially solved the problem. 5.1, which is the current standard, does that. I'm not saying 7 channels won't be better, but I don't think I'd invest in it yet.
Click to expand...
Nearly all the "blockbuster" movies produced over the past decade or so use descrete 7.1 in their Bluray or DVD mix (Bluray using the higher resolution 24/96 Dolby and DTS codecs). If the OP has a few feet behind his sofa and wants "true surround", then going 7.1 at a minimum will get him there. If his sofa is stuck on the back wall, then 5.1 may be all that he can squeeze for now. I will say that moving my sectional 2 feet off of the back wall improved bass clarity and sound imaging tremendously.
 
What
PSULBU said:
Audyssey is great, but the problem being I don't think many current receivers outside of Denon and Marantz (same company) have it since the Atmos fraud took over.
Click to expand...
are you talking about??!!?
Denon, Marantz and Onkyo chose Audyssey room correction since this software became available in the early 2000s. Yamaha uses their proprietary room correction software called YPAO and Pioneer uses their own system called MMAC. All three of these systems have been in existence for almost 15 years now. Atmos has nothing to do with it.
 
Brazillm10 said:
You have no clue.
Click to expand...
There
Mudge1026 said:
A sub would play every thing down below 80 hz so satellite speakers have to play everything above 80hz. If you dont have aot of cabinet volume you cant play loud enough effectively. I tried satellites in fromt and they just dont play music loud enough to be satisfying. Now if you are just doing movies satelittes in front would be fine. Rotel is pretty knew but only 60 per channel in 6 channel mode. The B&K's are much older but have been sitting in a box unused for 5 years. I have this really cool Meridien surround sound controller as a replacement.
Click to expand...
there's a saying in this hobby: "there's no replacement for displacement". That means that the larger the speaker, the better it will sound (as long as both are high quality brands). The same is true for subwoofers; a huge subwoofer with a big amp and an 18 inch driver will hit harder and play deeper than a comparable smaller subwoofer. It is up to the consumer to determine what compromises he is willing to make to get the best system for his room and needs.
 
Brazillm10 said:
You have no clue. Have you even heard it set up in a commercial theater or properly executed home system?
Click to expand...

I used to have a set of Bose 901's, 301's, the Bose 321 system, and the Bose outdoor speakers with a Rotel amp and pre amp.

I wanted something better so I hired a professional company. They set me up with B&W speakers/towers and subs , an Onkyo and Anthem receivers, an Anthem amp, and a Control 4 250 Controller with Extra Vegetables. I've had a lot of problems with the controller and it finally quit working. The stereocompany upgraded me to a Control 4 800 series but that cost $1300 installed with an upgrade discount.

If I had to do it over again, I would not have spent $24k but would have gotten something mush less expensive.
 
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Brazillm10 said:
There

there's a saying in this hobby: "there's no replacement for displacement". That means that the larger the speaker, the better it will sound (as long as both are high quality brands). The same is true for subwoofers; a huge subwoofer with a big amp and an 18 inch driver will hit harder and play deeper than a comparable smaller subwoofer. It is up to the consumer to determine what compromises he is willing to make to get the best system for his room and needs.
Click to expand...
I was referring to tower speakers vs satellites? I have a velodyne 15" sub and you are correct there is no substitute for big woofers and cabinets.
 
Cincinnati Kid said:
I used to have a set of Bose 901's, 301's, the Bose 321 system, and the Bose outdoor speakers with a Rotel amp and pre amp.

I wanted something better so I hired a professional company. They set me up with B&W speakers/towers and subs , an Onkyo and Anthem receivers, an Anthem amp, and a Control 4 250 Controller with Extra Vegetables. I've had a lot of problems with the controller and it finally quit working. The stereocompany upgraded me to a Control 4 800 series but that cost $1300 installed with an upgrade discount.

If I had to do it over again, I would not have spent $24k but would have gotten something mush less expensive.
Click to expand...
For that kind of money I would have purchased a very high end Sub $3k or higher, a separate very powerful power amp for very high end tower speakers, power amp for satellite speakers, very high end preamp/surround sound unit to tie it all together. I could give you brand names if you are interested. Stereos are my hobby and I spent similar dollar numbers to you but with very statisfying results. Dont need any consultants since I've been studying this stuff since the 1970's. Friends come into my home and are mesmerized.
 
I could give $24k to most people and they would screw it up so don't feel bad. I've been invested in surround sound equipment since the 1980's.
 
Cincinnati Kid said:
I used to have a set of Bose 901's, 301's, the Bose 321 system, and the Bose outdoor speakers with a Rotel amp and pre amp.

I wanted something better so I hired a professional company. They set me up with B&W speakers/towers and subs , an Onkyo and Anthem receivers, an Anthem amp, and a Control 4 250 Controller with Extra Vegetables. I've had a lot of problems with the controller and it finally quit working. The stereocompany upgraded me to a Control 4 800 series but that cost $1300 installed with an upgrade discount.

If I had to do it over again, I would not have spent $24k but would have gotten something mush less expensive.
Click to expand...

It sounds like your issue is with the control system, not the actual speakers, amps and processors (BTW, I LOVE the sound of most Bowers and Wilkins speakers). The problem with having someone come in and program your "system controller" is that you are at their mercy. Every time you want to upgrade to a new TV, cable box or receiver, you have to have someone come out and reprogram it to the tune of $80-100 per hour. Some control systems like Crestron, AMX, Savant and Elan require extensive training to program. Others like Control 4 are a little easier to manage, but you need to be a dealer to access their programming wizard. They do this for two main reasons, 1) residual income for the dealer and 2) keeps tinkerers from screwing up the program.

, My advice might be to go to Best Buy or Amazon.com and pick up a decent Harmony remote control. They are a breeze to program yourself if you have an idea how the system was hooked up and you can troubleshoot any issues that might arise without paying a tech. Another option is to check out iRule, which turns your iPad or phone into a remote.
 
Brazillm10 said:
What

are you talking about??!!?
Denon, Marantz and Onkyo chose Audyssey room correction since this software became available in the early 2000s. Yamaha uses their proprietary room correction software called YPAO and Pioneer uses their own system called MMAC. All three of these systems have been in existence for almost 15 years now. Atmos has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...


You are correct. I've used the Pioneer stuff, I believe they call it MCACC. While it is better than nothing it's not in the same universe as the Audyssey. The MCACC sets the speaker volumes, sets the distance(delay) correctly and sets crossovers plus does a bit of equalization.

Audyssey does all that and does room correction.

The technology is a result of a multi-year university research effort to understand the key factors that influence sound reproduction. From this research came two key findings:

  1. Acoustical problems in the room are more accurately measured in the time domain. This type of analysis provides information about the direct sound and the effects of reflections from room surfaces. This was a departure from traditional EQ methods that only looked at data in the frequency domain.
  2. Measuring in a single location does not capture sufficient information and often results in equalization artifacts. Multiple measurements are required to capture the spatial distribution of acoustical problems, particularly in the low frequencies where the problems are more serious.
MultEQ captures multiple measurements in the time domain and then groups them in clusters based on similarities in the data. Using Fuzzy Logic mathematics, the clusters are allowed to overlap so that each measured response belongs to each cluster with a certain probability. In each cluster a representative response is then created that is weighted by the acoustical problems in that cluster, but also by those in the other clusters. MultEQ then re-combines these representative responses to create a final room representation and then inverts that to create the correction filter for each loudspeaker. The type of filter used by MultEQ simultaneously corrects the time and frequency domain problems to produce a smooth response.
 
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