% Bonus Wins

[RoarLions1]

Of all the records, I find % Bonus Point Wins, be it for a season or career, the most intriguing. Over the years, many wrestlers have gone undefeated for a season, with one name at the top of the career undefeated list. But while every undefeated season should be celebrated as a tremendous accomplishment, I find HOW dominating a wrestler was, or is, to be the more fun of the performance metrics.

For Season % Bonus Point Wins, here's the PSU Records:
1) David Taylor (2014, 32/34, for 94.1%)
2) David Taylor (2012, 30/32, for 93.8%)
3) Jason Nolf (2017, 25/27, for 92.6%)
4) Jeff Prescott (1991, 21/23, for 91.3%)
5) David Taylor (2013, 29/32, for 90.6%)
6) Zain Retherford (2017, 25/28, for 89.3%)
7) Jason Nolf (2016, 31/35, for 88.6%)
8) Zain Retherford (2016, 30/34, for 88.2%)
9) David Taylor (2011, 34/39, for 87.2%)
10), 11), and 12) All three held by Ed Ruth, for 2014, 2012, and 2013, with 85.7%, 83.9%, and 78.8% respectively.

To give one more data-point, in Cael's Senior year, of his 40 wins, only 1 was by decision, a 6-1 win vs Jon Trenge.

To my knowledge, other than possibly the earliest days of NCAA Wrestling, Cael's senior season was the most dominating, bonusing at a 97.5% clip.

I'm excited, all-the-while being grateful for the talent in our room, to see what the current group of wrestlers can do.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

Of all the records, I find % Bonus Point Wins, be it for a season or career, the most intriguing. Over the years, many wrestlers have gone undefeated for a season, with one name at the top of the career undefeated list. But while every undefeated season should be celebrated as a tremendous accomplishment, I find HOW dominating a wrestler was, or is, to be the more fun of the performance metrics.

For Season % Bonus Point Wins, here's the PSU Records:
1) David Taylor (2014, 32/34, for 94.1%)
2) David Taylor (2012, 30/32, for 93.8%)
3) Jason Nolf (2017, 25/27, for 92.6%)
4) Jeff Prescott (1991, 21/23, for 91.3%)
5) David Taylor (2013, 29/32, for 90.6%)
6) Zain Retherford (2017, 25/28, for 89.3%)
7) Jason Nolf (2016, 31/35, for 88.6%)
8) Zain Retherford (2016, 30/34, for 88.2%)
9) David Taylor (2011, 34/39, for 87.2%)
10), 11), and 12) All three held by Ed Ruth, for 2014, 2012, and 2013, with 85.7%, 83.9%, and 78.8% respectively.

To give one more data-point, in Cael's Senior year, of his 40 wins, only 1 was by decision, a 6-1 win vs Jon Trenge.

To my knowledge, other than possibly the earliest days of NCAA Wrestling, Cael's senior season was the most dominating, bonusing at a 97.5% clip.

I'm excited, all-the-while being grateful for the talent in our room, to see what the current group of wrestlers can do.

So the only way Zain or Jason could best Cael's mark is to bonus 100%, as they will not get 41 matches. Guessing they each have that goal.

 

[PSUisawesome]

Of all the records, I find % Bonus Point Wins, be it for a season or career, the most intriguing. Over the years, many wrestlers have gone undefeated for a season, with one name at the top of the career undefeated list. But while every undefeated season should be celebrated as a tremendous accomplishment, I find HOW dominating a wrestler was, or is, to be the more fun of the performance metrics.

For Season % Bonus Point Wins, here's the PSU Records:
1) David Taylor (2014, 32/34, for 94.1%)
2) David Taylor (2012, 30/32, for 93.8%)
3) Jason Nolf (2017, 25/27, for 92.6%)
4) Jeff Prescott (1991, 21/23, for 91.3%)
5) David Taylor (2013, 29/32, for 90.6%)
6) Zain Retherford (2017, 25/28, for 89.3%)
7) Jason Nolf (2016, 31/35, for 88.6%)
8) Zain Retherford (2016, 30/34, for 88.2%)
9) David Taylor (2011, 34/39, for 87.2%)
10), 11), and 12) All three held by Ed Ruth, for 2014, 2012, and 2013, with 85.7%, 83.9%, and 78.8% respectively.

To give one more data-point, in Cael's Senior year, of his 40 wins, only 1 was by decision, a 6-1 win vs Jon Trenge.

To my knowledge, other than possibly the earliest days of NCAA Wrestling, Cael's senior season was the most dominating, bonusing at a 97.5% clip.

I'm excited, all-the-while being grateful for the talent in our room, to see what the current group of wrestlers can do.

Thanks Roar. This feels like THE stat for how dominant someone was vis a vis wrestlers from other periods. Be curious to see it in terms of the greats like John Smith, the Schultz bros etc. as it is it's pretty unforgiving. The bar is high.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Interesting that for as dominant as Zain has been over his career, Nolf is right there if not slightly more dominant.

 

[dicemen99]

Interesting that for as dominant as Zain has been over his career, Nolf is right there if not slightly more dominant.

Not really when you realize that Roar's faulty metrics don't include ODI results.

 

[86PSUPaul]

Thanks for linking, saved me googling ODI

 

[nerfstate]

I like this metric, but prefer some kind of weighting on the kind of bonus victory it is. The obvious choice would be an average "dual" points scored, but maybe that is too much weighting. Still there's a huge difference between 24 majors and 24 falls.

 

[nitlion6]

Wondrous Wade with his 150 or so victories that included 106 falls was fairly dominant.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Man, when Zain and Nolf graduate, we're really going to come back to the field.

 

[slushhead]

Interesting that for as dominant as Zain has been over his career, Nolf is right there if not slightly more dominant.

Not really when you realize that Roar's faulty metrics don't include ODI results.

I was going to say they just have different kinds of dominance: Zain leads in Pain, Nolf leads in Humiliation.

But props to the ODI reference. I hadn't heard of that before -- nice.

 

[Sportfan2017]

Man, when Zain and Nolf graduate, we're really going to come back to the field.

How can you leave BO out of this post? The best thing about Bo's matches is....you don't know when or exactly how....but you know something WILD is going to happen. I love watching Zain......(how about taking a shot every time the opponent makes a sound that you KNOW means he is in pain ( beware of Alcohol poisoning ).....Love to see what Nolf will do...the intensity for 7 minutes....when will his nose start bleeding ( side bet ). Two shots when he invents a move. But BO.........you don't know what to bet on because you don't know what is coming. Have seen some quite amazing pinning situations from which pins rarely happen from said position. Take a shot when ???? Just shrug and take the shot Figure out what happened on the replays. I will miss all 3 for differing reasons.

 

[LaxHawk174]

Not really when you realize that Roar's faulty metrics don't include ODI results.

My lower back hurts just watching Zain bow and arrow people.

 

[RoarLions1]

Time to bring in the career numbers. No one intentionally left off Bo, though the comment above is the reason this is being posted now.

Here's the top-7 ALL-TIME, current wrestlers in RED (4 of top-7!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Joke all you want, this SHALL be tough to duplicate after Bo and Jason graduate.

Zain's numbers reflect a low bonus point rate (14 in 37 bouts) as a true freshman. Other aspects of these numbers that jump out at me...
-- To repeat, 4 of the top-7 ALL-TIME....dang (that's Roar cursing)
-- Jason has a shot at David. JASON HAS A SHOT AT THE MAGICMAN...think about that for a second.
-- Mark's numbers are after 1 year! He WILL move up the list.

Here's how one reads this info (Place, Name, Years, Bonus Point Wins, Total Matches, %).
1 David Taylor 2011-2014 125 137 91.2%
2 Jason Nolf 2016-2017 56 62 90.3%
3 Ed Ruth 2011-2014 104 139 74.8%
4 Bo Nickal 2016-2017 44 62 71.0%
5 Zain Retherford 2014-2017 69 98 70.4%
6 Jeff Prescott 1989-1992 65 105 61.9%
7 Mark Hall 2017-2017 21 34 61.8%

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Time to bring in the career numbers. No one intentionally left off Bo, though the comment above is the reason this is being posted now.

Here's the top-7 ALL-TIME, current wrestlers in RED (4 of top-7!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Joke all you want, this SHALL be tough to duplicate after Bo and Jason graduate.

Zain's numbers reflect a low bonus point rate (14 in 37 bouts) as a true freshman. Other aspects of these numbers that jump out at me...
-- To repeat, 4 of the top-7 ALL-TIME....dang (that's Roar cursing)
-- Jason has a shot at David. JASON HAS A SHOT AT THE MAGICMAN...think about that for a second.
-- Mark's numbers are after 1 year! He WILL move up the list.

Here's how one reads this info (Place, Name, Years, Bonus Point Wins, Total Matches, %).
1 David Taylor 2011-2014 125 137 91.2%
2 Jason Nolf 2016-2017 56 62 90.3%
3 Ed Ruth 2011-2014 104 139 74.8%
4 Bo Nickal 2016-2017 44 62 71.0%
5 Zain Retherford 2014-2017 69 98 70.4%
6 Jeff Prescott 1989-1992 65 105 61.9%
7 Mark Hall 2017-2017 21 34 61.8%

Nolf might be first if we didn’t miss out on Reno last year. You’ve got to assume he rolls over those opponents as it wasn’t a great field.

 

[RoarLions1]

Nolf might be first if we didn’t miss out on Reno last year. You’ve got to assume he rolls over those opponents as it wasn’t a great field.

It's a percent, so changes are incremental (and smaller as the total bouts increases). That said, IF Jason has Bonus Point Wins in his NEXT seven (7) bouts, he's at 91.3%, and several tenths higher than DT. Thing is, every non-bonus point win must be offset by about 11 bonus point wins to maintain this percentage.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

How can you leave BO out of this post? The best thing about Bo's matches is....you don't know when or exactly how....but you know something WILD is going to happen. I love watching Zain......(how about taking a shot every time the opponent makes a sound that you KNOW means he is in pain ( beware of Alcohol poisoning ).....Love to see what Nolf will do...the intensity for 7 minutes....when will his nose start bleeding ( side bet ). Two shots when he invents a move. But BO.........you don't know what to bet on because you don't know what is coming. Have seen some quite amazing pinning situations from which pins rarely happen from said position. Take a shot when ???? Just shrug and take the shot Figure out what happened on the replays. I will miss all 3 for differing reasons.

Time to bring in the career numbers. No one intentionally left off Bo, though the comment above is the reason this is being posted now.

Here's the top-7 ALL-TIME, current wrestlers in RED (4 of top-7!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Joke all you want, this SHALL be tough to duplicate after Bo and Jason graduate.

Zain's numbers reflect a low bonus point rate (14 in 37 bouts) as a true freshman. Other aspects of these numbers that jump out at me...
-- To repeat, 4 of the top-7 ALL-TIME....dang (that's Roar cursing)
-- Jason has a shot at David. JASON HAS A SHOT AT THE MAGICMAN...think about that for a second.
-- Mark's numbers are after 1 year! He WILL move up the list.

Here's how one reads this info (Place, Name, Years, Bonus Point Wins, Total Matches, %).
1 David Taylor 2011-2014 125 137 91.2%
2 Jason Nolf 2016-2017 56 62 90.3%
3 Ed Ruth 2011-2014 104 139 74.8%
4 Bo Nickal 2016-2017 44 62 71.0%
5 Zain Retherford 2014-2017 69 98 70.4%
6 Jeff Prescott 1989-1992 65 105 61.9%
7 Mark Hall 2017-2017 21 34 61.8%

Sporrtfan2017, my message was in relation to a long-running joke on here that started during Taylor and Ruth's days. The joke was along the lines of "Taylor and Ruth are generational talents, and Penn State will never have two guys like that again." Then, Zain, Jason and Bo happened. No slight of Bo intended. Just trying to be funny.

Roar, yes, guys achieving these types of numbers will absolutely be difficult. My comment was more intended regarding the team coming back to the field, not necessarily individuals dropping back to something less than these lofty numbers.

 

[RoarLions1]

Thanks Roar. This feels like THE stat for how dominant someone was vis a vis wrestlers from other periods. Be curious to see it in terms of the greats like John Smith, the Schultz bros etc. as it is it's pretty unforgiving. The bar is high.

John Smith was 69.75% for his career.

 

[nerfstate]

Do you have a number for Andy Matter? How about Kolat for his years here?

 

[RoarLions1]

Roar, yes, guys achieving these types of numbers will absolutely be difficult. My comment was more intended regarding the team coming back to the field, not necessarily individuals dropping back to something less than these lofty numbers.

Sounds like you thought my comment was aimed in your general direction. Not at all.

That said, this is now a Roar Rant. I am hopeful that we, as a community, find new material, AND SOON. The idea that we will fall into mediocrity once DT and ER graduated has been answered...several times over. And while this is just one man's opinion, "beating Nico in the room" has run it's course, as have several other themes that seem to have lasted a very long time. I loved the "fist-in-the-back" days, though thankfully it's now gone...as at the end, folks were trying too hard to be clever. It also appears the cruiseliner has sunk, which is OK by me.

 

[dunkej01]

It's a percent, so changes are incremental (and smaller as the total bouts increases). That said, IF Jason has Bonus Point Wins in his NEXT seven (7) bouts, he's at 91.3%, and several tenths higher than DT. Thing is, every non-bonus point win must be offset by about 11 bonus point wins to maintain this percentage.

NOW THAT is some math!

 

[RoarLions1]

NOW THAT is some math!

Haha...not just a pretty face, dunk .

 

[Chickenman Testa]

It's a percent, so changes are incremental (and smaller as the total bouts increases). That said, IF Jason has Bonus Point Wins in his NEXT seven (7) bouts, he's at 91.3%, and several tenths higher than DT. Thing is, every non-bonus point win must be offset by about 11 bonus point wins to maintain this percentage.

You don’t say

 

[dunkej01]

Does this mean the Spyker jokes are off limits?

I'm almost to gate C, will let you know.

Ps - I'm the guy asking if anyone has seen spyker. If you see me say hi.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Does this mean the Spyker jokes are off limits?

One can only hope.

 

[PSUisawesome]

John Smith was 69.75% for his career.

Wow. Possible reasons for the difference:
A) coaching
B) style of wrestling during the Gable era
C) tougher opponents
Im going with A

 

[RoarLions1]

Do you have a number for Andy Matter? How about Kolat for his years here?

Scoring was different during Matter's years (1970-1972), so it's apples-to-oranges. Based on his bout scores, he would be in the 67% range, though again, so much is different.

Kolat was 58%, with 28 Falls, 1 TF, and 9 Majors in 66 matches while at PSU.

 

[slushhead]

Scoring was different during Matter's years (1970-1972), so it's apples-to-oranges. Based on his bout scores, he would be in the 67% range, though again, so much is different.

Kolat was 58%, with 28 Falls, 1 TF, and 9 Majors in 66 matches while at PSU.

That reminds me of a subject I brought up somewhere over the summer regarding comparisons of team scores among eras when you have different scoring criteria as part of the equation. One might have to really go through the stats of Taylor and Nolf with a fine-toothed comb to determine their relative bonus rates if the scoring system were equal among them. For example, in how many matches did DT score 3-pt NF but fall short of a MD? Or did Nolf earn a MD only because of the 4-pt NF? My guess is that it was/has been very few times in both cases, but when you are talking about differences of 0.1% or less in bonus rates to put someone at the top of the all-time list, it could take only a match or two to warrant an asterisk next to someone's name.

 

[RoarLions1]

That reminds me of a subject I brought up somewhere over the summer regarding comparisons of team scores among eras when you have different scoring criteria as part of the equation. One might have to really go through the stats of Taylor and Nolf with a fine-toothed comb to determine their relative bonus rates if the scoring system were equal among them. For example, in how many matches did DT score 3-pt NF but fall short of a MD? Or did Nolf earn a MD only because of the 4-pt NF? My guess is that it was/has been very few times in both cases, but when you are talking about differences of 0.1% or less in bonus rates to put someone at the top of the all-time list, it could take only a match or two to warrant an asterisk next to someone's name.

Step 1, DT's Decisions - With 3 losses in his career, and 12 non-bonus point wins, the Magic Man had 9 Decisions in his career. The margin of victory was;
3 Points - 3 Times
5 Points - 2 Times
6 Points - 3 Times (9-3, 6-0, and 7-1)
7 Points - 1 Time (14-7)

Without seeing each bout, I will say, with confidence, that none of these would have been Majors, considering the rule change (4-pt nearfall). The three 6-pt wins could not have had more than 1 turn, so they MIGHT have been 7-pt wins, but NOT a Major. The 7-pt win (14-7), I can say with high confidence, was a takedown-let 'em up-takedown affair.

Bottom line...for DT, his Bonus Point percentage stands, even applying the new rule.

 

[RoarLions1]

Step 2, Jason's Majors - Four of Jason's Majors were by 8 Points;
11-3 vs Smith
15-7 vs Berger
13-5 vs Berger
14-6 vs Lavallee

Not remembering the details of any of these 4, I can't make any conclusion. It is possible, even likely, that one or more contained a 4-point turn that was just enough to make the win a Major vs a Decision.

 

[slushhead]

Step 3, buy Roar a cold one for doing my research for me.

 

[RoarLions1]

Step 3, buy Roar a cold one for doing my research for me.

Well...you going to Cleveland? How 'bout Dad? Bro? I'm sure hockeygod is already scoping food places .

 

[slushhead]

Well...you going to Cleveland? How 'bout Dad? Bro? I'm sure hockeygod is already scoping food places .

Unfortunately, it's not looking likely. Still paying off debts at home for NYC 2016, and I'm not expecting my ranking to break into the Top 25 anytime soon.

 

[RoarLions1]

Unfortunately, it's not looking likely. Still paying off debts at home for NYC 2016, and I'm not expecting my ranking to break into the Top 25 anytime soon.

You're young, lots of years left, and looks like we'll be at or near the top for awhile .

 

[Pennstate1985]

You're young, lots of years left, and looks like we'll be at or near the top for awhile .

I hope to meet many of you at the Scuffle this year. 3 hour car ride.

 

[dunkej01]

I hope to meet many of you at the Scuffle this year. 3 hour car ride.

My plans are to be in Pasadena

 

[Pennstate1985]

My plans are to be in Pasadena

Meh. Wait til the title game to travel.

 

[nitlion6]

Meh. Wait til the title game to travel.

Nothing wrong with a few days in Pasadena watching the Parade and then catching Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl before traveling to Atlanta to watch Penn State be the team to beat Alabama this year.

 

[dunkej01]

Nothing wrong with a few days in Pasadena watching the Parade and then catching Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl before traveling to Atlanta to watch Penn State be the team to beat Alabama this year.

I would think we as the BIG champ would go to Pasadena (the Champ semi designation) rather than to the sugar in Norleans which figures at this time to be where they would want Bama and the #4 seed.

but yes the following week in ATL would be a blast. Wisky with only 1 loss and to us in the BIG, well they probably figure into the fiesta/orange.