Coaching vs Execution

[NittanyLionRoar]

The more time passes the more I blame the coaches for the loss. I know there’s a debate here and in the national media about it being Allar’s fault and less so on the coaches. But…

1. With 40 seconds left, it’s simply odds. What play gives you the best odds to win in that spot? Seems like a drop back pass was about 20-25% chance of winning—it had not worked all night and it was more likely that what would happen did happen, forcing a turnover. Theoretically, a kneel, which takes you to overtime at least gives you 50% in a tie game. Sending receivers on fly routes with them playing man and giving Singleton a delayed handoff in space might even be better than 50%.

2. It doesn’t matter if Allar should know not to take risks at the spot. At every level of football from peewee to NFL, you see the head coach put his arms on the QB before the last drive and tell him to be calm and keep the ball safe. Did our QB get that little reminder? Or did they just “trust the qb” like they like to say?

3. Receivers. It has been talked to death. Coach them up or get better ones.

4. The defense was phenomenal. Until we went into zone coverages that let them march down the field several times, which happened all season starting with bowling green. Could have stuck with what works but didn’t.

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

The more time passes the more I blame the coaches for the loss. I know there’s a debate here and in the national media about it being Allar’s fault and less so on the coaches. But…

1. With 40 seconds left, it’s simply odds. What play gives you the best odds to win in that spot? Seems like a drop back pass was about 20-25% chance of winning—it had not worked all night and it was more likely that what would happen did happen, forcing a turnover. Theoretically, a kneel, which takes you to overtime at least gives you 50% in a tie game. Sending receivers on fly routes with them playing man and giving Singleton a delayed handoff in space might even be better than 50%.

2. It doesn’t matter if Allar should know not to take risks at the spot. At every level of football from peewee to NFL, you see the head coach put his arms on the QB before the last drive and tell him to be calm and keep the ball safe. Did our QB get that little reminder? Or did they just “trust the qb” like they like to say?

3. Receivers. It has been talked to death. Coach them up or get better ones.

4. The defense was phenomenal. Until we went into zone coverages that let them march down the field several times, which happened all season starting with bowling green. Could have stuck with what works but didn’t.

The head coaches are ultimately responsible for execution. They recruit every single player, they hire every single coach. If someone fails then they either didn’t recruit the correct players or hire the right coaches and/or coach up the players correctly. If you have a mass of injuries well over other teams that’s about the only excuse that you can have.

 

[Obliviax]

The more time passes the more I blame the coaches for the loss. I know there’s a debate here and in the national media about it being Allar’s fault and less so on the coaches. But…

1. With 40 seconds left, it’s simply odds. What play gives you the best odds to win in that spot? Seems like a drop back pass was about 20-25% chance of winning—it had not worked all night and it was more likely that what would happen did happen, forcing a turnover. Theoretically, a kneel, which takes you to overtime at least gives you 50% in a tie game. Sending receivers on fly routes with them playing man and giving Singleton a delayed handoff in space might even be better than 50%.

2. It doesn’t matter if Allar should know not to take risks at the spot. At every level of football from peewee to NFL, you see the head coach put his arms on the QB before the last drive and tell him to be calm and keep the ball safe. Did our QB get that little reminder? Or did they just “trust the qb” like they like to say?

3. Receivers. It has been talked to death. Coach them up or get better ones.

4. The defense was phenomenal. Until we went into zone coverages that let them march down the field several times, which happened all season starting with bowling green. Could have stuck with what works but didn’t.

One of the issues that always bugs me with football. I'd rather be losing by less than a FG and receiving a kick rather than be winning by less than a FG kicking off with 1:30 left in the game. Teams have to know that allowing a team to get inside their 30 is almost always a game loser. Yet, they play this soft zone and let teams through underneath. The clock stops to move the chains, you have the 2 minute timeout, you can run OOB, and you can throw an incompletion to stop the clock (by mistake or on purpose). So the only even that keeps the clock moving is when a person in tackled in the field of play when the play does not result in a first down.

Play man. Play tight. If you get beat, you get beat. A TD is no worse than a FG. In fact, in many cases, if the offense gets inside the 30 teams will try to give up the TD just so they can try to tie it with their own TD.

 

[doctornick]

One of the issues that always bugs me with football. I'd rather be losing by less than a FG and receiving a kick rather than be winning by less than a FG kicking off with 1:30 left in the game. Teams have to know that allowing a team to get inside their 30 is almost always a game loser. Yet, they play this soft zone and let teams through underneath. The clock stops to move the chains, you have the 2 minute timeout, you can run OOB, and you can throw an incompletion to stop the clock (by mistake or on purpose). So the only even that keeps the clock moving is when a person in tackled in the field of play when the play does not result in a first down.

Play man. Play tight. If you get beat, you get beat. A TD is no worse than a FG. In fact, in many cases, if the offense gets inside the 30 teams will try to give up the TD just so they can try to tie it with their own TD.

Also on that note that having 4 downs to get a 1st down is easier than getting it in 3 downs. So when you are at the end of the game and *know* you need to score to be able to win, it does make it a little easier to move the ball because of the extra down that you are forced to use.

 

[bvillebaron]

The head coaches are ultimately responsible for execution. They recruit every single player, they hire every single coach. If someone fails then they either didn’t recruit the correct players or hire the right coaches and/or coach up the players correctly. If you have a mass of injuries well over other teams that’s about the only excuse that you can have.

And the coaches are responsible for global warming too huh? If they coached better, Cam Miller wouldn’t have fallen down and allowed ND to score that easy game tying TD with less than 5 minutes left in the game. If they coached better a few years ago, Devyn Ford wouldn’t have scored that TD against Indiana despite admitting he was told not to score. You can criticize coaches for poor clock management and poor calls (and trying to score to avoid OT wasn’t one of them inasmuch as Allar was 8-9 in the second half before that bad decision) but it’s truly amazing how many posters are perfectly content to credit players when they are successful but always blame the coaches in general and Franklin in particular when they don’t execute.

 

[Obliviax]

And the coaches are responsible for global warming too huh? If they coached better, Cam Miller wouldn’t have fallen down and allowed ND to score that easy game tying TD with less than 5 minutes left in the game. If they coached better a few years ago, Devyn Ford wouldn’t have scored that TD against Indiana despite admitting he was told not to score. You can criticize coaches for poor clock management and poor calls (and trying to score to avoid OT wasn’t one of them inasmuch as Allar was 8-9 in the second half before that bad decision) but it’s truly amazing how many posters are perfectly content to credit players when they are successful but always blame the coaches in general and Franklin in particular when they don’t execute.

totally agree. For example, Drew Allar knew not to throw that ball from teaching he received in Jr. High. Anyone who has watched three games knew the only thing PSU could NOT DO in that situation was turn the ball over. Allar stated that he was trying to throw the ball away, at the receiver's feet, but the ball got up high and it was a pick. That is simply NOT the coach's fault.

It is a combo. The strategy and chess match have to be good and that is on the coaching staff. But once the play is in, it is about execution. While there can be a lot of angst about CJF not winning the big one, a lot of it is simply execution. Players didn't make plays. In some cases, they did. In others, they didn't. But it is never about one play.

 

[MacNit2.0]

And the coaches are responsible for global warming too huh? If they coached better, Cam Miller wouldn’t have fallen down and allowed ND to score that easy game tying TD with less than 5 minutes left in the game. If they coached better a few years ago, Devyn Ford wouldn’t have scored that TD against Indiana despite admitting he was told not to score. You can criticize coaches for poor clock management and poor calls (and trying to score to avoid OT wasn’t one of them inasmuch as Allar was 8-9 in the second half before that bad decision) but it’s truly amazing how many posters are perfectly content to credit players when they are successful but always blame the coaches in general and Franklin in particular when they don’t execute.

Ford was all coaching.

How tough is it to say: fall down b4 scoring?

In fact, the ball should never have left the WB’s hands. There was literally 0.1 % chance of losing. Yet we all know what happened.

 

[PSU4U]

The more time passes the more I blame the coaches for the loss. I know there’s a debate here and in the national media about it being Allar’s fault and less so on the coaches. But…

1. With 40 seconds left, it’s simply odds. What play gives you the best odds to win in that spot? Seems like a drop back pass was about 20-25% chance of winning—it had not worked all night and it was more likely that what would happen did happen, forcing a turnover. Theoretically, a kneel, which takes you to overtime at least gives you 50% in a tie game. Sending receivers on fly routes with them playing man and giving Singleton a delayed handoff in space might even be better than 50%.

2. It doesn’t matter if Allar should know not to take risks at the spot. At every level of football from peewee to NFL, you see the head coach put his arms on the QB before the last drive and tell him to be calm and keep the ball safe. Did our QB get that little reminder? Or did they just “trust the qb” like they like to say?

3. Receivers. It has been talked to death. Coach them up or get better ones.

4. The defense was phenomenal. Until we went into zone coverages that let them march down the field several times, which happened all season starting with bowling green. Could have stuck with what works but didn’t.

It takes two to Tango and some blame can be placed on both.

IMO the coaches didn't make any catastrophic play calls this season. Some questionable ones? Yes, but those calls didn't result in losses. If I were going to call out any coaches and I have held back on one of them it would be Tom Allen and Marques Hagans who (Hagans) seems to be perfectly fine with.

While Allen can be credited with helping us to get to where we were some of his 1st half schemes put the team behind the eightball making some games more of a struggle than it should have been. I think on a lot of occasions the players bailed him out.

 

[m.knox]

The head coaches are ultimately responsible for execution. They recruit every single player, they hire every single coach. If someone fails then they either didn’t recruit the correct players or hire the right coaches and/or coach up the players correctly. If you have a mass of injuries well over other teams that’s about the only excuse that you can have.

The coaches are responsible for the play calls too. Urban Meyer heaped a ton of criticism on the call that ended our hopes. His take was don't take away the tie. Don't take away overtime. I believe Singleton had run for 11 yards the play before. Believe what you are seeing. Three time outs left.....

 

[joeaubie21]

Face it, Franya crapped the bed.

 

[Gitzit]

I've been critical of Franklin but trying to win the game was the correct call IMO. Drew was trying to throw it away but was getting pressured and the ball didn't go where he wanted, end of story!

 

[rrdd2021]

totally agree. For example, Drew Allar knew not to throw that ball from teaching he received in Jr. High. Anyone who has watched three games knew the only thing PSU could NOT DO in that situation was turn the ball over. Allar stated that he was trying to throw the ball away, at the receiver's feet, but the ball got up high and it was a pick. That is simply NOT the coach's fault.

Agree 100%. As an outsider, yes, with a loss like PSU's last one, most - and rightly so - point fingers at the HC. But this one is all on Allar. No way in hell you throw an interception in that situation. I still think it should be PSU-OSU playing for the NC on the 20th. BTW - I hate ND

 

[lowhandicapper]

This isn't hard.
Jimmy's & Joe's > X's & O's

The players play the game. No coach can help them once the ball is snapped. At that point its athletic ability, reaction to opposing forces and awareness. It's tremendously arrogant to think the coaches control the game like a video game, it just isn't true and never has been.

Let's not forget that it's not a coincidence that Bear Bryant, Joe Paterno, Nick Saban and Bobby Bowden also had the BEST players. Fact. It sure made Saban's job a lot easier when his entire front 7 was drafted annually...130 NFL Draft picks in 15 years at Bama, including 39 first rounders.

 

[bvillebaron]

Ford was all coaching.

How tough is it to say: fall down b4 scoring?

In fact, the ball should never have left the WB’s hands. There was literally 0.1 % chance of losing. Yet we all know what happened.

Dude stop the bullshit. Ford himself admitted afterwards he was told not to score. You could also tell from his body language as soon as he did that he knew he screwed up.

 

[Obliviax]

Agree 100%. As an outsider, yes, with a loss like PSU's last one, most - and rightly so - point fingers at the HC. But this one is all on Allar. No way in hell you throw an interception in that situation. I still think it should be PSU-OSU playing for the NC on the 20th. BTW - I hate ND

Well, I don't agree it was all on Allar. If Cam doesn't fall down, we aren't in that situation. Or if Singleton makes that catch, we are still ahead and not tied. The fact is, all of those key plays earlier in the game dictats the game situation in the 4th quarter and who knows what would happen. It is never one guy and it is never one player. Allar had a bad game but should never have been in the situation we were in at that point in the game. We were the better team and just didn't capitalize when we needed to.

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

Well, I don't agree it was all on Allar. If Cam doesn't fall down, we aren't in that situation. Or if Singleton makes that catch, we are still ahead and not tied. The fact is, all of those key plays earlier in the game dictats the game situation in the 4th quarter and who knows what would happen. It is never one guy and it is never one player. Allar had a bad game but should never have been in the situation we were in at that point in the game. We were the better team and just didn't capitalize when we needed to.

Allar was trash so were the wrs

 

[bvillebaron]

This isn't hard.
Jimmy's & Joe's > X's & O's

The players play the game. No coach can help them once the ball is snapped. At that point its athletic ability, reaction to opposing forces and awareness. It's tremendously arrogant to think the coaches control the game like a video game, it just isn't true and never has been.

Let's not forget that it's not a coincidence that Bear Bryant, Joe Paterno, Nick Saban and Bobby Bowden also had the BEST players. Fact. It sure made Saban's job a lot easier when his entire front 7 was drafted annually...130 NFL Draft picks in 15 years at Bama, including 39 first rounders.

Yeah I remember a guy named Paterno saying it’s the Jimmys and Joes not the Xs and Os but what the hell did he know about football compared to all the “experts” on this board?

 

[m.knox]

Yeah I remember a guy named Paterno saying it’s the Jimmys and Joes not the Xs and Os but what the hell did he know about football compared to all the “experts” on this board?

"Gotta make a play in the clutch."

 

[lowhandicapper]

"Gotta make a play in the clutch."

Let's face it, this loss was so hard because every Penn State fan and an entire nation watching thought that was going to be Drew Allar's moment. Give the big future NFL QB the ball last with a chance to win it, it turned out to be exactly the opposite of that and that was hard for everyone. If he throws that pick later in the drive after say 6 plays and on the other 35 yard line, nobody says much. However the way it happened, on the second play, in that position of the field, with no "drive" taking place just made it hard to take to take, even for the critics. There was just nothing good that happened there and it literally shocked everyone.

 

[Obliviax]

Allar was trash so were the wrs

I think your comment is immature as a football fan. Allar can't throw the ball AND catch it. At the same time, the WR's can't throw the ball and catch it. If the WRs were complete crap, how can you blame Allar? If Allar was complete crap, how can you blame the WRs?

Tengwall probably did the best review and he stated that the WRs lack of ability/consistency has caused Allar to be more tentative. I saw this versus Ole Miss in the bowl. By the end of the game, the two wouldn't even look at each other. I also think this is why AK was calling deep plays toward the end of the MSU and Boise games. He was trying to get the WRs some confidence and success for games against ND and tOSU.

 

[bvillebaron]

Let's face it, this loss was so hard because every Penn State fan and an entire nation watching thought that was going to be Drew Allar's moment. Give the big future NFL QB the ball last with a chance to win it, it turned out to be exactly the opposite of that and that was hard for everyone. If he throws that pick later in the drive after say 6 plays and on the other 35 yard line, nobody says much. However the way it happened, on the second play, in that position of the field, with no "drive" taking place just made it hard to take to take, even for the critics. There was just nothing good that happened there and it literally shocked everyone.

Agreed

 

[Obliviax]

Let's face it, this loss was so hard because every Penn State fan and an entire nation watching thought that was going to be Drew Allar's moment. Give the big future NFL QB the ball last with a chance to win it, it turned out to be exactly the opposite of that and that was hard for everyone. If he throws that pick later in the drive after say 6 plays and on the other 35 yard line, nobody says much. However the way it happened, on the second play, in that position of the field, with no "drive" taking place just made it hard to take to take, even for the critics. There was just nothing good that happened there and it literally shocked everyone.

I think that is right. And despite a little goodness, the perception of Allar is now defined by a single stupid play where he shit the bed in primetime.

But lets not lose sight of the fact that we will have another year with one of the best QB prospects we've ever had at PSU who is only 20 years old. In addition, we'll have a second year with AK. tOSU's Howard threw a similar pick to Oregon in their regular season game. UM's quarterback, Klye McCord was awful before xfering to Syracuse last year. This game will help improve PSU or defeat them. It is up to the players. UM came back from a humiliating defeat by TCU to win the Natty the next season.

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

I think your comment is immature as a football fan. Allar can't throw the ball AND catch it. At the same time, the WR's can't throw the ball and catch it. If the WRs were complete crap, how can you blame Allar? If Allar was complete crap, how can you blame the WRs?

Tengwall probably did the best review and he stated that the WRs lack of ability/consistency has caused Allar to be more tentative. I saw this versus Ole Miss in the bowl. By the end of the game, the two wouldn't even look at each other. I also think this is why AK was calling deep plays toward the end of the MSU and Boise games. He was trying to get the WRs some confidence and success for games against ND and tOSU.

I think your comment is immature as a football fan. Allar can't throw the ball AND catch it. At the same time, the WR's can't throw the ball and catch it. If the WRs were complete crap, how can you blame Allar? If Allar was complete crap, how can you blame the WRs?

Tengwall probably did the best review and he stated that the WRs lack of ability/consistency has caused Allar to be more tentative. I saw this versus Ole Miss in the bowl. By the end of the game, the two wouldn't even look at each other. I also think this is why AK was calling deep plays toward the end of the MSU and Boise games. He was trying to get the WRs some confidence and success for games against ND and tOSU.

He couldn’t hit wide open receivers regardless of position. Had 2 horrid throws that were intercepted but were waved off by penalty. But were awful decisions to throw on both.

 

[Obliviax]

He couldn’t hit wide open receivers regardless of position. Had 2 horrid throws that were intercepted but were waved off by penalty. But were awful decisions to throw on both.

you should probably just go root for another team. PSU's offense will be built around Allar next year. You won't enjoy it.

 

[lowhandicapper]

He couldn’t hit wide open receivers regardless of position. Had 2 horrid throws that were intercepted but were waved off by penalty. But were awful decisions to throw on both.

Come on man.
The throw to Warren, Warren easily contests that catch if he isn't run through by a DB. I'll trust Tyler Warren there, he's earned it.
The throw to Wallace was as blatant of an off the line hold as a corner could have. Especially in enclosed area like that with no field in front of them and all the players and officials packed in.
Like neither of them happen without the foul. That's why they call penalties in the game of football.

 

[m.knox]

Let's face it, this loss was so hard because every Penn State fan and an entire nation watching thought that was going to be Drew Allar's moment. Give the big future NFL QB the ball last with a chance to win it, it turned out to be exactly the opposite of that and that was hard for everyone. If he throws that pick later in the drive after say 6 plays and on the other 35 yard line, nobody says much. However the way it happened, on the second play, in that position of the field, with no "drive" taking place just made it hard to take to take, even for the critics. There was just nothing good that happened there and it literally shocked everyone.

Couldn't agree more. HUGE stage.

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

you should probably just go root for another team. PSU's offense will be built around Allar next year. You won't enjoy it.

I’ll be there regardless. Was there until the end of the game vs MSU in 2004 when we were 4-7 headed into the game. I stayed until the end of the game in our 24-7 loss to Toledo. Stayed until the end of the 34-8 loss to Michigan years back. I’m no fair weather fan.

My hope is that Allar works on his footwork and our wrs are better next year.

 

[rrdd2021]

We were the better team and just didn't capitalize when we needed to.

This 100% and I just feel PSU gave the game away. It should be 2 B1G teams playing for the NC on the 20th

 

[Obliviax]

I’ll be there regardless. Was there until the end of the game vs MSU in 2004 when we were 4-7 headed into the game. I stayed until the end of the game in our 24-7 loss to Toledo. Stayed until the end of the 34-8 loss to Michigan years back. I’m no fair weather fan.

My hope is that Allar works on his footwork and our wrs are better next year.

Well, I am not sure why you've been trashing Allar. he is the best QB we've had since Collins (maybe ever) and he played great all year. He is a first-round NFL pick.

I've heard, from a very good source, that AK is coming back because he knows he'll be able to pick his destination after a year partnered with AK. Plus, his leaving would have meant that Allar would have had to play under three different OCs over three years as a starter.

I am absolutely certain that AK is going to spend the off-season tinkering with the offense to tailor it around Drew. I think the two of them have "an understanding".