DB recruiting -- never seen anything remotely like this at PSU.

[tboyer]

Anybody who's been following PSU as long as I have, the recruiting for corners is just jaw-dropping.

Corner was one position Paterno never recruited all that well (with a few notable exceptions) because PSU's scheme was a disadvantage for anyone who wanted to play in the NFL. Typically Joe had had one great athlete at corner and it usually was someone who was overlooked by the major programs (Brian Miller, who was only 5-6, or Marlon Forbes, who I think walked on. Or Zemaitis who was kind of a late bloomer. Or Macklin. They all became terrific players BTW.)

There has always been a gigantic gap between secondary recruiting at PSU and Ohio State. Ohio State always had corners who pick-sixed PSU to death; meanwhile PSU's secondary couldn't run with Ohio State's best receivers. Now Franklin has taken a giant step toward parity.

I think this is the last frontier. This is the last position group where PSU has always been a step behind the major powers in college football.

Three of the nation's top corners in the SAME CLASS, and the fourth -- Brown -- is really just as good a prospect as the three four stars.

This is like Franklin did with wideouts a couple years ago. You load up enough top tier prospects, and create real competition in practice, the likelihood is very high that you will have all-Big Ten dbs a couple of seasons from now. They may have enough players that they can rotate and not lose a step, like they are on DL.

It's a real credit to Frankin, to Pry, Terry Smith, Tim Banks, the defensive staff and also to the current players on the team. You see Reid and Haley play, you know they're getting good coaching and having fun. Same with the safeties -- Golden and Allen were so good this year, such difference-makers, who wouldn't want to step into their shoes?

 

[royboy]

Same with the safeties -- Golden and Allen were so good this year, such difference-makers, who wouldn't want to step into their shoes?

I was with you all the way, until this last sentence. IMO, big room for improvement in the pass coverage ability of PSU safeties; yes, they played hard and made plenty of tackles, but they didn't generate interceptions or pass break-ups. I think some of the younger guys already in the program can provide an upgrade here, but that's an important part of the defense that could be better.

 

[aalion]

Anybody who's been following PSU as long as I have, the recruiting for corners is just jaw-dropping.

Corner was one position Paterno never recruited all that well (with a few notable exceptions) because PSU's scheme was a disadvantage for anyone who wanted to play in the NFL. Typically Joe had had one great athlete at corner and it usually was someone who was overlooked by the major programs (Brian Miller, who was only 5-6, or Marlon Forbes, who I think walked on. Or Zemaitis who was kind of a late bloomer. Or Macklin. They all became terrific players BTW.)

There has always been a gigantic gap between secondary recruiting at PSU and Ohio State. Ohio State always had corners who pick-sixed PSU to death; meanwhile PSU's secondary couldn't run with Ohio State's best receivers. Now Franklin has taken a giant step toward parity.

I think this is the last frontier. This is the last position group where PSU has always been a step behind the major powers in college football.

Three of the nation's top corners in the SAME CLASS, and the fourth -- Brown -- is really just as good a prospect as the three four stars.

This is like Franklin did with wideouts a couple years ago. You load up enough top tier prospects, and create real competition in practice, the likelihood is very high that you will have all-Big Ten dbs a couple of seasons from now. They may have enough players that they can rotate and not lose a step, like they are on DL.

It's a real credit to Frankin, to Pry, Terry Smith, Tim Banks, the defensive staff and also to the current players on the team. You see Reid and Haley play, you know they're getting good coaching and having fun. Same with the safeties -- Golden and Allen were so good this year, such difference-makers, who wouldn't want to step into their shoes?

Good post. I am pretty sure CB is the only position that PSU has never had a 1st round NFL draft pick.

 

[tboyer]

I was with you all the way, until this last sentence. IMO, big room for improvement in the pass coverage ability of PSU safeties; yes, they played hard and made plenty of tackles, but they didn't generate interceptions or pass break-ups. I think some of the younger guys already in the program can provide an upgrade here, but that's an important part of the defense that could be better.

Well the whole secondary will probably just get better every year. And yes, that's no doubt part of the reason Allen stayed -- he can get better in coverage. But I think the season Golden and Allen had this year, the number of really big plays they made -- and had to make because of the depth problems and inexperience in front of them -- well it was a really special season for both of them. They had to be more run oriented this year and maybe in the future when the LB position is firmed up, PSU safeties will have the luxury of spending more time in coverage. I don't think it will be this year though.

 

[IANit]

DB recruiting in your headline almost had me thinking this was a thread on Harbaugh.

 

[bkmtnittany1]

You will be amazed at how good safeties become in pass coverage when there are lockdown corners on the field....Franklin is doing a great job recruiting to play a base nickel defense and combat the spread....super job

 

[21Guns]

You will be amazed at how good safeties become in pass coverage when there are lockdown corners on the field....Franklin is doing a great job recruiting to play a base nickel defense and combat the spread....super job

Penn State will start a senior at one corner, and a junior who might come out early at the other corner, this year. If it's ever going to happen that Pry goes to exclusive press man, it's this year.

 

[PSUAlum]

Anybody who's been following PSU as long as I have, the recruiting for corners is just jaw-dropping.

Corner was one position Paterno never recruited all that well (with a few notable exceptions) because PSU's scheme was a disadvantage for anyone who wanted to play in the NFL. Typically Joe had had one great athlete at corner and it usually was someone who was overlooked by the major programs (Brian Miller, who was only 5-6, or Marlon Forbes, who I think walked on. Or Zemaitis who was kind of a late bloomer. Or Macklin. They all became terrific players BTW.).

Brian Miller and David Macklin were both 5'9". I had a class with Miller at Penn State and that 5'9" was pretty accurate. Safety Shawn Lee is the shortest player that played in the secondary for Penn State at 5'7" that I remember. We need Lou Prato on speed dial since he probably has a list of shortest players of All-Time. Rich Gardner was another walk on

 

[bkmtnittany1]

Here's hoping Nick Scott gets in the defensive backfield. I always thought he was a great athlete.

 

[AldenT]

Penn State will start a senior at one corner, and a junior who might come out early at the other corner, this year. If it's ever going to happen that Pry goes to exclusive press man, it's this year.

Interesting point. This staff has recognized that speed and athleticism can't be schemed or taught, and it's paying big dividends.

Part of me wants Reid to have a good enough year to go early and part of me wants a monster senior year from him with our run in '18.

 

[21Guns]

Interesting point. This staff has recognized that speed and athleticism can't be schemed or taught, and it's paying big dividends.

Part of me wants Reid to have a good enough year to go early and part of me wants a monster senior year from him with our run in '18.

If he has the kind of year that sends him to the NFL next year, then we ARE making our run in 2017.

 

[21Guns]

Here's hopig Nick Scott gets in the defensive backfield. I always thought he was a great athlete.

Another guy whose time will come. Might come in 2017 as part of the dime defense.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

I'm going to throw this out there just to hear opinions telling me I'm all wet. I generated this theory watching the 4th quarter of the Rose Bowl.

Of course you want great players at every position, which goes without saying.

At the same time the secondary has just been overshadowed by the passing game. You can have Richard Sherman and Deion Sanders out there and it doesn't make any difference. The quarterbacks and receivers are too good. If the ball comes out of the QB's hand, it's going to be a completion 70% of the time no matter who is back there.

I'd be loading up on DE's and OLB's that can terrorize. For the defensive backs, my first question is how are they as an edge blitzer? Can they get to the QB? Yes? Come on down. No? Sorry, Charlie. Once that ball comes out it's going for a completion so your coverage skills don't mean squat. And even if you are the rare bird that can cover? You're 5'9". I'll just send out a platoon of 6'4" wideouts that will just jump over you and come down with the ball and there's nothing you can do about it.

When you could hand fight and mug receivers all the way down the field like in the days of Night Train Lane, DB was an important position. Now, it has gone the way of the fullback.

 

[Ranger Dan]

I'm going to throw this out there just to hear opinions telling me I'm all wet. I generated this theory watching the 4th quarter of the Rose Bowl.

Of course you want great players at every position, which goes without saying.

At the same time the secondary has just been overshadowed by the passing game. You can have Richard Sherman and Deion Sanders out there and it doesn't make any difference. The quarterbacks and receivers are too good. If the ball comes out of the QB's hand, it's going to be a completion 70% of the time no matter who is back there.

I'd be loading up on DE's and OLB's that can terrorize. For the defensive backs, my first question is how are they as an edge blitzer? Can they get to the QB? Yes? Come on down. No? Sorry, Charlie. Once that ball comes out it's going for a completion so your coverage skills don't mean squat. And even if you are the rare bird that can cover? You're 5'9". I'll just send out a platoon of 6'4" wideouts that will just jump over you and come down with the ball and there's nothing you can do about it.

When you could hand fight and mug receivers all the way down the field like in the days of Night Train Lane, DB was an important position. Now, it has gone the way of the fullback.

A good secondary will make your pass rush better and a good pass rush will make your secondary better. If you want to win national championships, you need to have both secondary and pass rush, not to mention the ability to stop the run.

 

[21Guns]

I'm going to throw this out there just to hear opinions telling me I'm all wet. I generated this theory watching the 4th quarter of the Rose Bowl.

Of course you want great players at every position, which goes without saying.

At the same time the secondary has just been overshadowed by the passing game. You can have Richard Sherman and Deion Sanders out there and it doesn't make any difference. The quarterbacks and receivers are too good. If the ball comes out of the QB's hand, it's going to be a completion 70% of the time no matter who is back there.

I'd be loading up on DE's and OLB's that can terrorize. For the defensive backs, my first question is how are they as an edge blitzer? Can they get to the QB? Yes? Come on down. No? Sorry, Charlie. Once that ball comes out it's going for a completion so your coverage skills don't mean squat. And even if you are the rare bird that can cover? You're 5'9". I'll just send out a platoon of 6'4" wideouts that will just jump over you and come down with the ball and there's nothing you can do about it.

When you could hand fight and mug receivers all the way down the field like in the days of Night Train Lane, DB was an important position. Now, it has gone the way of the fullback.

I think we're going to see an improved pass rush this year, actually. Simmons is special, and he is going to be on the field. Brown and Bucholz have developed nicely, and Miller will now trust what he sees. I think you see a much better pass rush inside also, with the Parker and Curtis, adding to Kevin and Robert. Don't count out a move by one of the inside guys, to the outside, and Chavis is a real monster, who could come into his own in his second year from the Juco, just as Paris Palmer did in his second year on the offensive side.

Southern Cal hurt us with vertical routes in which our 4th and 5th DB's couldn't get turned around in time, they also pounded our zones. Having experienced 3rd and 4th year guys in this secondary can free us up to play much more press man. To win the real, real elite games against the great passing teams like SC or the like, you NEED to play press man. I think Pry goes to it much more next year.

 

[wslee1]

Brian Miller and David Macklin were both 5'9". I had a class with Miller at Penn State and that 5'9" was pretty accurate. Safety Shawn Lee is the shortest player that played in the secondary for Penn State at 5'7" that I remember. We need Lou Prato on speed dial since he probably has a list of shortest players of All-Time. Rich Gardner was another walk on

Biondi sure seemed pretty small out there, not sure what his actual height was.

 

[Raffycorn]

I think Nick Scott is your starter at the safety position opposite Marcus Allen this season.

 

[21Guns]

Biondi sure seemed pretty small out there, not sure what his actual height was.

5'6".

He actually took himself out of the National Championship game against Georgia, early in the 3rd quarter. Paterno put Chris Sydnor in, for the rest of the game. Georgia only scored one more time from there on in. It was a selfless act from a real team guy, to do that. Had he not, Herman Archie would have led Georgia to a National championship, he was one of "Joe's boys" and he wasn't coming out, unless he took himself out, and he actually took himself out.


He DID however, somehow catch Irving Fryer from behind, on a reverse, which to this day still boggles my mind.

 

[21Guns]

I think Nick Scott is your starter at the safety position opposite Marcus Allen this season.

That would mean he beat out Troy Apke. I won't call it yet, but I have a feeling Apke finishes the spring with the 1's, with Nick running with the 2's. Both will play.

28, hopefully surpasses 7 from the 08 team, in quality of play against top level competition. Hopefully. At the moment, the two unfortunately have had similar careers.

 

[Springcity]

I have been questioning all year why it seems we were giving up so much passes with the secondary. Definitely recruited way better that we used too. Thought we would be more shut down

 

[hereforthebeer]

I

That would mean he beat out Troy Apke. I won't call it yet, but I have a feeling Apke finishes the spring with the 1's, with Nick running with the 2's. Both will play.

28, hopefully surpasses 7 from the 08 team, in quality of play against top level competition. Hopefully. At the moment, the two unfortunately have had similar careers.

I don't want to say disparaging things about the kid, but I really hope someone overtakes 28. There's really nothing he excels at and he has yet to flash in any way. Others have said he's out of position as a db and I agree.

 

[Ranger Dan]

I
I don't want to say disparaging things about the kid, but I really hope someone overtakes 28. There's really nothing he excels at and he has yet to flash in any way. Others have said he's out of position as a db and I agree.

Can't you just say that the incoming players are great, and even mention the names of existing players who will mesh well and be bolstered by the infusion of talent? There is no need to call out anyone... I know some have given me a hard time for "preaching" on this board, but this is bad form in my opinion, especially out of the blue (not emotional reaction to a recent game).

 

[Nittany1997]

Nick Sukay says hi!

 

[Pocono Lion]

I
I don't want to say disparaging things about the kid, but I really hope someone overtakes 28. There's really nothing he excels at and he has yet to flash in any way. Others have said he's out of position as a db and I agree.

I call BS on posts like this. You say you don't want to say disparaging things about a kid and then you proceed to do so anyway. If you don't want to do it, then don't.

 

[tboyer]

I'm going to throw this out there just to hear opinions telling me I'm all wet. I generated this theory watching the 4th quarter of the Rose Bowl.
...
When you could hand fight and mug receivers all the way down the field like in the days of Night Train Lane, DB was an important position. Now, it has gone the way of the fullback.

I like your theory but to base it on the Rose Bowl ... that was a very unusual college football game. It featured two hot quarterbacks and a bunch of receivers who will be playing on Sundays. That's an extreme rarity. And even then, the secondary play was key -- secondaries on both sides made some big plays, notably the INT at the end that cost PSU.

Yes, if you can't get pressure on a QB, even the best secondary is going to break down. But that's been true for a long time. Even an average college QB is going to pick apart a secondary if he can stand relaxed in the pocket the way Darnell could at the end of the RB.

Against the typical Big Ten team, a great corner is still a huge difference maker because, if he's good enough, he can singlehandedly keep in check the other team's best receiver and free other members of the secondary for run support and blitzing.

When you don't have great players in the secondary - Wisconsin, as it turned out, had a couple players who were highly overrated -- another team's passing game will just run roughshod as PSU did.

If what you're really saying is that the passing game is taking over football, I'm not sure I agree. Yes the quality of passing improves every year. But an awful lot of championships are still won by running the ball or stopping the run.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

That would mean he beat out Troy Apke. I won't call it yet, but I have a feeling Apke finishes the spring with the 1's, with Nick running with the 2's. Both will play.

28, hopefully surpasses 7 from the 08 team, in quality of play against top level competition. Hopefully. At the moment, the two unfortunately have had similar careers.

I will say 7 gave us some interceptions and was a big hitter. I also remember him running back an on-sides kick attempt for a touchdown.

 

[bjf1991]

I have been questioning all year why it seems we were giving up so much passes with the secondary. Definitely recruited way better that we used too. Thought we would be more shut down

Safeties didn't have "man coverage" skills... That simple

It makes it tough to do a lot of the things a DC would like to do

 

[WDLion]

Anybody who's been following PSU as long as I have, the recruiting for corners is just jaw-dropping.

Corner was one position Paterno never recruited all that well (with a few notable exceptions) because PSU's scheme was a disadvantage for anyone who wanted to play in the NFL. Typically Joe had had one great athlete at corner and it usually was someone who was overlooked by the major programs (Brian Miller, who was only 5-6, or Marlon Forbes, who I think walked on. Or Zemaitis who was kind of a late bloomer. Or Macklin. They all became terrific players BTW.)

There has always been a gigantic gap between secondary recruiting at PSU and Ohio State. Ohio State always had corners who pick-sixed PSU to death; meanwhile PSU's secondary couldn't run with Ohio State's best receivers. Now Franklin has taken a giant step toward parity.

I think this is the last frontier. This is the last position group where PSU has always been a step behind the major powers in college football.

Three of the nation's top corners in the SAME CLASS, and the fourth -- Brown -- is really just as good a prospect as the three four stars.

This is like Franklin did with wideouts a couple years ago. You load up enough top tier prospects, and create real competition in practice, the likelihood is very high that you will have all-Big Ten dbs a couple of seasons from now. They may have enough players that they can rotate and not lose a step, like they are on DL.

It's a real credit to Frankin, to Pry, Terry Smith, Tim Banks, the defensive staff and also to the current players on the team. You see Reid and Haley play, you know they're getting good coaching and having fun. Same with the safeties -- Golden and Allen were so good this year, such difference-makers, who wouldn't want to step into their shoes?

A J Wallace and Justin King were the top rated CBs in the country.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

To win the real, real elite games against the great passing teams like SC or the like, you NEED to play press man. I think Pry goes to it much more next year.

Oh boy do I like that. You absolutely have to hit that receiver, jam him like you mean it, and gum up the timing in a big way. THAT is where the CB makes his bones. And you have to have the athleticism to not get juked and he goes sprinting right past you.

You give these guys an unmolested free release coming across the line, and you might as well just start picking up the chains and moving them downfield.

 

[21Guns]

Oh boy do I like that. You absolutely have to hit that receiver, jam him like you mean it, and gum up the timing in a big way. THAT is where the CB makes his bones. And you have to have the athleticism to not get juked and he goes sprinting right past you.

You give these guys an unmolested free release coming across the line, and you might as well just start picking up the chains and moving them downfield.

Lamont Wade HAS press man skill as either a safety or a corner. That's a fact.

 

[hereforthebeer]

What I'd this

I call BS on posts like this. You say you don't want to say disparaging things about a kid and then you proceed to do so anyway. If you don't want to do it, then don't.

So far he has disappointed as a safety. The end. Don't like my presentation? I don't care. I had bullets flying at me at that age. He doesn't need coddled and I doubt he's as delicate as you must be.

Also, your logic sucks. As a PSU fan, I want to be praising him as the greatest safety I've ever seen. His play, however, warrants no such praise. Am I precluded from giving an honest opinion about his play? If this forum morphed into a support group, I was not informed.

 

[hereforthebeer]

Can't you just say that the incoming players are great, and even mention the names of existing players who will mesh well and be bolstered by the infusion of talent? There is no need to call out anyone... I know some have given me a hard time for "preaching" on this board, but this is bad form in my opinion, especially out of the blue (not emotional reaction to a recent game).

No. See above message. It's interesting that you would also fall into the sensitive category. We're talking about performance at supporting endeavors here.

 

[Ranger Dan]

No. See above message. It's interesting that you would also fall into the sensitive category. We're talking about performance at supporting endeavors here.

I'm not a participation trophy guy, but this wasn't a discussion of Derek Fox after the Minnesota game, it was a euphoric, "the future is bright" thread about the recruiting of defensive backs, triggered by the great group of defensive backs in this class. I just don't see how that ends up leading to dumping on a current player. I'm not saying that it makes you a bad person, just that it's unnecessary.

 

[Cpeplion]

I've always felt that the lack of big time CB's coming to PSU had more to do with the type of D that was run. Bradley annoyed the crap out of me running soft coverage 10 yards off the WR. Big time CB's want to play aggressive and it didn't fit with Bradleys system.

 

[Springcity]

Safeties didn't have "man coverage" skills... That simple

It makes it tough to do a lot of the things a DC would like to do

T
Thank you. Excellent answer I saw the same thing

 

[hereforthebeer]

I'm not a participation trophy guy, but this wasn't a discussion of Derek Fox after the Minnesota game, it was a euphoric, "the future is bright" thread about the recruiting of defensive backs, triggered by the great group of defensive backs in this class. I just don't see how that ends up leading to dumping on a current player. I'm not saying that it makes you a bad person, just that it's unnecessary.

I didn't bring it up. The thread evolved that way, consistent with the fluid nature of these things. My original post even references the one I was responding to. How that could be considered out of bounds makes no sense to me.

 

[PSU20]

I was with you all the way, until this last sentence. IMO, big room for improvement in the pass coverage ability of PSU safeties; yes, they played hard and made plenty of tackles, but they didn't generate interceptions or pass break-ups. I think some of the younger guys already in the program can provide an upgrade here, but that's an important part of the defense that could be better.

Couldn't agree more. Our safeties have been sub-par in pass coverage for years!

 

[21Guns]

Couldn't agree more. Our safeties have been sub-par in pass coverage for years!

They won't be in 2017. Young man named Lamont Wade is here. Went toe to toe with EVERY receiver in the top All America practices. Got a kid named McPhearson who was a terror in practice, took a redshirt. Marcus Allen returns. Nick Scott returns. Amani Oruwariye with a year under his belt. Garrett Taylor and Ayron Monroe have arrived.

Deep, DEEP talent, competition for playing time, and a veteran quarterback of the secondary in #2. Along with the two best corners in the Big Ten.

Might be 2 or 3 teams, at the most, who will be able to throw on us, we just played one of those 2 in January in Pasadena. Bring it.

 

[BobPSU92]

What I'd this
So far he has disappointed as a safety. The end. Don't like my presentation? I don't care. I had bullets flying at me at that age. He doesn't need coddled and I doubt he's as delicate as you must be.

Also, your logic sucks. As a PSU fan, I want to be praising him as the greatest safety I've ever seen. His play, however, warrants no such praise. Am I precluded from giving an honest opinion about his play? If this forum morphed into a support group, I was not informed.

 

[PSU20]

They won't be in 2017. Young man named Lamont Wade is here. Went toe to toe with EVERY receiver in the top All America practices. Got a kid named McPhearson who was a terror in practice, took a redshirt. Marcus Allen returns. Nick Scott returns. Amani Oruwariye with a year under his belt. Garrett Taylor and Ayron Monroe have arrived.

Deep, DEEP talent, competition for playing time, and a veteran quarterback of the secondary in #2. Along with the two best corners in the Big Ten.

Might be 2 or 3 teams, at the most, who will be able to throw on us, we just played one of those 2 in January in Pasadena. Bring it.

Was going to mention McPhearson and Taylor, two really good DB prospects who have not been talked about recently. Good to hear positive comments about McPhearson, and I would bet Taylor turns some heads this spring. The kid is a talent.

Would like to see Wade at safety, or do you believe he will play CB?