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Disconnect between Franklin and Stevens’ family?

If Clifford becomes the QB one of the 2019 QBs are gone after the season and the 2020 is looking elsewhere.

Clifford will have three years to play regardless. The 2019 kids will have two years left after Clifford is gone and the 2020 kid will have three. I'm not sure why you think who wins the job this fall has any impact on any of the three kids. One 2019 kid may transfer because of how he looks vs. the other 2019 kid, not how he stacks up next to Clifford.
 
It wasn't that long ago, some posters were arguing that Trace should play over Hack.

And those posters turned out to be right. The only time the Stevens over Trace sector MIGHT have been accurate is when Trace was dinged up.

Stevens, if healthy (I'm sure it's getting old to say) will likely earn the opportunity to be our starter. As competitive as Clifford is said to be, he's only going to push harder with the competition remaining open.
 
Okay QB expert.
Not an expert. Based on what I’ve observed however I like Clifford better than Stevens. The coaches obviously have 1000x more data and I will respect their decision. I think Clifford has a much more accurate and stronger arm, and his deep ball can really open up the offense. Tommy is a limited thrower in my opinion. That is all.
 
Think of it this way. Franklin has to worry about 85 players. .. not just Tommy Stevens. So imagine how it would effect the other 84 guys if Franklin named a guy a starter who is NOT healthy now and has NOT been healthy for over a year..... imagine how those other 84 guys would respond to future speeches about earning your job and practice counts
 
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Think of it this way. Franklin has to worry about 85 players. .. not just Tommy Stevens. So imagine how it would effect the other 84 guys if Franklin named a guy a starter who is NOT healthy now and has NOT been healthy for over a year..... imagine how those other 84 guys would respond to future speeches about earning your job and practice counts
Yeah, I see rebellion if Tommy is the starter. LOL
 
Clifford will have three years to play regardless. The 2019 kids will have two years left after Clifford is gone and the 2020 kid will have three. I'm not sure why you think who wins the job this fall has any impact on any of the three kids. One 2019 kid may transfer because of how he looks vs. the other 2019 kid, not how he stacks up next to Clifford.

Because QBs don't want to sit. Guys want what Trace had. So TS only gets 1 year, SC in theory gets 2, therefore the 2019/2020 is not seeing the field for at least 4 seasons until 2022. I bet if you told both 2019 QBs they are not seeing the field until 2022 they likely jump. It is the toughest position to manage on the roster, see Hack junior year. JF would have gone with Trace sooner, but it would have screwed up dynamic of benching #1 QB in country and affected recruiting.

Personally I think TS should have started Michigan game, year may have unfolded differently. I think he is the best QB right now for this system. I think Clifford has the most NFL potential but is a poor fit for this offense. I think it will be square peg, round hole and will be an issue.

I think things will get very interesting after this season at QB.
 
Any locker room issues would probably be more likely to be brought about if Stevens is NOT the starter..... I would expect.
But those decisions - and whether or not there could be any repercussions - are a long way off.

CJF kinda’/sorta’ set a precedent with his “phantom starts” for Farmer last year.
But the QB position is a rather unique beast, and he can’t fall back on that strategy at the QB spot (if, indeed, Clifford outplays Stevens - Which is not a given by any means)


Of course, if I were in CJF’s shoes, I’d be much more concerned with who was running the offense from the sidelines/booth - than I would be with which of two talented options was lining up behind center :)

From all appearances (over the last few seasons) Stevens is extremely popular with his teammates. QB is a unique position. Unlike others (LB for instance) where a coach can play a veteran and blend in another player to build depth at a position.
 
Not an expert. Based on what I’ve observed however I like Clifford better than Stevens. The coaches obviously have 1000x more data and I will respect their decision. I think Clifford has a much more accurate and stronger arm, and his deep ball can really open up the offense. Tommy is a limited thrower in my opinion. That is all.
Where does all this talk come from about Stevens’ arm? I have seen him launch a number of long passes in games - he has a cannon and everyone always marveled about how much stronger it is than Trace’s. As for Clifford, he has looked equally good but in much, much more limited sample.
 
There’s a reason Stevens was the #2 last year ahead of Clifford when available to play. Clifford certainly may be narrowing the gap but Tommy is going to get every shot to solidify himself as the starter. Tommy has been in the system a long time. Full playbook available game 1. Have to be curious about what he can do as a big, physical runner alongside some extremely talented backs with a very talented receiving crew. Might be who the best fit is for this offense more than who the better qb is.
Exactly. Now has Clifford closed the gap or passed Stevens? Time will tell.
 
Exactly. Now has Clifford closed the gap or passed Stevens? Time will tell.
I think if Stevens 0is fully recovered and can practice in the Fall, he will win the starting position. I believe Cliffird will also get reps in each game so should Steven's get reinjured or falter, Clifford will step right in and do well. My expectation is that Steven's will shine as a QB if his health allow him to play.
 
what is the issue. of course Stevens and his family want Tommy to be named the starter. Stevens put the time in over the past 4 years and he thinks he deserves it. maybe some tacit promises made to get him to come back. also saw the loyalty to Trace and the fact that JFF didn't give Tommy much of a shot last year even though Trace was obviously not 100% from an injury standpoint. Maybe saw how JFF kept Trace in a series or two longer than you would have thought was reasonable at end of games and didn't get Tommy in the game for some real reps the last couple of years. A lot of things if I were Stevens I would be pushing for being named the starter based on my body of work at PSU.

And JFF isn't going to do that as Tommy hasn't taken enough snaps at the QB position in the bowl practice, winter workouts, or spring ball. Probably has allowed Clifford to really catch up on the field with all those reps he has gotten over the past year with Tommy injured for a bulk of spring practice this year and last and bowl practice. So JFF wants to let this play out into fall camp, see if Tommy can remain healthy over the summer season and get some work in with the WR group. And come fall, if Tommy is 100% healthy and shows, I think JFF names him the starter about 2 weeks into camp to stop any argument or controversy. But until that occurs, it isn't going to happen.
 
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what is the issue. of course Stevens and his family want Tommy to be named the starter. Stevens put the time in over the past 4 years and he thinks he deserves it. maybe some tacit promises made to get him to come back. also saw the loyalty to Trace and the fact that JFF didn't give Tommy much of a shot last year even though Trace was obviously not 100% from an injury standpoint. Maybe saw how JFF kept Trace in a series or two longer than you would have thought was reasonable at end of games and didn't get Tommy in the game for some real reps the last couple of years. A lot of things if I were Stevens I would be pushing for being named the starter based on my body of work at PSU.

And JFF isn't going to do that as Tommy hasn't taken enough snaps at the QB position in the bowl practice, winter workouts, or spring ball. Probably has allowed Clifford to really catch up on the field with all those reps he has gotten over the past year with Tommy injured for a bulk of spring practice this year and last and bowl practice. So JFF wants to let this play out into fall camp, see if Tommy can remain healthy over the summer season and get some work in with the WR group. And come fall, if Tommy is 100% healthy and shows, I think JFF names him the starter about 2 weeks into camp to stop any argument or controversy. But until that occurs, it isn't going to happen.

TS was pretty injured himself last year even moreso than TM.
 
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Where does all this talk come from about Stevens’ arm? I have seen him launch a number of long passes in games - he has a cannon and everyone always marveled about how much stronger it is than Trace’s. As for Clifford, he has looked equally good but in much, much more limited sample.
Clifford is the new shiny plaything for fanboys. We were one more bomb thrown by Levis(in a bullshit scrimmage) away from a campaign for him to be the starter. Clifford certainly throws a good deep ball.....and will be a solid backup/alternative should Stevens be ineffective or injured. Real coaches are not swayed by performance in garbage time and have hundreds of hours of practice tapes to make their decisions on. PSU needs Tommy to be healthy and running the offense (and running the ball) for things to go. I believe he is faster (than Trace) and carries a big pop when running the ball. He has the best grasp of the system (5 years) and Clifford will be more than ready for his final 2 years at PSU. If I were a betting man (and I am) I would wager that the decision has already been made internally.
 
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Why did Toomy Stevens and Journey Brown get all the first team reps in practice and sit out of the Blue White game?Can anyone please read between the lines and explain this?Could it be they separated themselves and the coaches know what they have?
 
Why did Toomy Stevens and Journey Brown get all the first team reps in practice and sit out of the Blue White game?Can anyone please read between the lines and explain this?Could it be they separated themselves and the coaches know what they have?
The "Spring Game" is a scrimmage. It is virtually meaningless except for a handful of players that have something to gain/prove. No staff is going to put the "key" to their success in harms way. PSU has great depth at RB and let Cain prove his chops and Slade get some limited reps. Tommy doesn't need to win the job in the Spring Game. I think everyone in the program knows this. The issue is getting him 100% healthy.
 
Why did Toomy Stevens and Journey Brown get all the first team reps in practice and sit out of the Blue White game?Can anyone please read between the lines and explain this?Could it be they separated themselves and the coaches know what they have?
On Journey Brown I am guessing no. I think he got a lot of reps because we need to develop depth at RB. No doubt IMO Slade is our first back with Cain first off the bench. Brown will get 2-3 touches a game and will return KO. But unless he can beat out Slade, or there are injuries, I don't see him getting a lot of work. Look at it this way; last year Slade was in year one, Brown in year two. Slade spent a significant portion of the season deep in Franklin's doghouse. Yet Brown never jumped him on the depth chart, even for one week. Our season ended on Jan 1. Without playing a game or even having a practice, I have a hard time believing Brown is all of a sudden competing to take time from Slade. Just my .02.
 
On Journey Brown I am guessing no. I think he got a lot of reps because we need to develop depth at RB. No doubt IMO Slade is our first back with Cain first off the bench. Brown will get 2-3 touches a game and will return KO. But unless he can beat out Slade, or there are injuries, I don't see him getting a lot of work. Look at it this way; last year Slade was in year one, Brown in year two. Slade spent a significant portion of the season deep in Franklin's doghouse. Yet Brown never jumped him on the depth chart, even for one week. Our season ended on Jan 1. Without playing a game or even having a practice, I have a hard time believing Brown is all of a sudden competing to take time from Slade. Just my .02.
My comments were tongue and cheek.They are the clear cut starters.
 
Clifford is the new shiny plaything for fanboys. We were one more bomb thrown by Levis(in a bullshit scrimmage) away from a campaign for him to be the starter. Clifford certainly throws a good deep ball.....and will be a solid backup/alternative should Stevens be ineffective or injured. Real coaches are not swayed by performance in garbage time and have hundreds of hours of practice tapes to make their decisions on. PSU needs Tommy to be healthy and running the offense (and running the ball) for things to go. I believe he is faster (than Trace) and carries a big pop when running the ball. He has the best grasp of the system (5 years) and Clifford will be more than ready for his final 2 years at PSU. If I were a betting man (and I am) I would wager that the decision has already been made internally.
Trace’s 40 yard dash and shuttle are both faster than Tommy’s.
 
...this "controversy" is on the reporters...
...bad news or conflict always attracts more attention than good news... :(
 
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Yeah, I see rebellion if Tommy is the starter. LOL

You are taking what I said like a 9-year old just to be argumentative.... and that makes me LOL.

If you read my post, I did NOT say IF Stevens were healthy or IF Stevens wins the job OR even this coming August. But if you want to snicker and giggle and try to have a conversation like you are a 9-year old, then fine.

All I know is that every competitive team I have ever been involved with, would have some doubters and some questioning the coaches if they just simply anointed a guy a starter because "he's been a good soldier". I think people get their opinions clouded on Stevens because he has been such a great kid, and great teammate and a great soldier for the program. But forget all that stuff and look at facts. In his 4 years he has seen very limited reps at QB. Trace has taken 90+% of the snaps the last 3+ years. All Stevens has gotten the last 3 years are "garbage time" reps, and reps as the "lion". Take out the "garbage time" reps and the reps at "lion" and it's not like Stevens has a lot of experience at QB.

What I said... to be clear because I also have to be clear with my 9 year old... Is that right now, this Spring, April of 2019 .... If Franklin just anointed Stevens the starter it could raise questions inside the locker room. Remember, the coaches give speeches to these guys all the time about "competing" and "best players will play". Again, TS is a great guy and a great teammate, but the fact is he has been hurt and not 100% since about 2017.
 
You are taking what I said like a 9-year old just to be argumentative.... and that makes me LOL.

If you read my post, I did NOT say IF Stevens were healthy or IF Stevens wins the job OR even this coming August. But if you want to snicker and giggle and try to have a conversation like you are a 9-year old, then fine.

All I know is that every competitive team I have ever been involved with, would have some doubters and some questioning the coaches if they just simply anointed a guy a starter because "he's been a good soldier". I think people get their opinions clouded on Stevens because he has been such a great kid, and great teammate and a great soldier for the program. But forget all that stuff and look at facts. In his 4 years he has seen very limited reps at QB. Trace has taken 90+% of the snaps the last 3+ years. All Stevens has gotten the last 3 years are "garbage time" reps, and reps as the "lion". Take out the "garbage time" reps and the reps at "lion" and it's not like Stevens has a lot of experience at QB.

What I said... to be clear because I also have to be clear with my 9 year old... Is that right now, this Spring, April of 2019 .... If Franklin just anointed Stevens the starter it could raise questions inside the locker room. Remember, the coaches give speeches to these guys all the time about "competing" and "best players will play". Again, TS is a great guy and a great teammate, but the fact is he has been hurt and not 100% since about 2017.
I certainly wish I were 9 and at my age it may not be long until that is how I function. In any event, I think your retort is where the adolescent behavior lies. Injury in football is unfortunately common. Players get it. Naming Stevens the starter based on over 4 years of practice and performance will not be unusual or even create a ripple.....anywhere but here.
 
You are taking what I said like a 9-year old just to be argumentative.... and that makes me LOL.

If you read my post, I did NOT say IF Stevens were healthy or IF Stevens wins the job OR even this coming August. But if you want to snicker and giggle and try to have a conversation like you are a 9-year old, then fine.

All I know is that every competitive team I have ever been involved with, would have some doubters and some questioning the coaches if they just simply anointed a guy a starter because "he's been a good soldier". I think people get their opinions clouded on Stevens because he has been such a great kid, and great teammate and a great soldier for the program. But forget all that stuff and look at facts. In his 4 years he has seen very limited reps at QB. Trace has taken 90+% of the snaps the last 3+ years. All Stevens has gotten the last 3 years are "garbage time" reps, and reps as the "lion". Take out the "garbage time" reps and the reps at "lion" and it's not like Stevens has a lot of experience at QB.

What I said... to be clear because I also have to be clear with my 9 year old... Is that right now, this Spring, April of 2019 .... If Franklin just anointed Stevens the starter it could raise questions inside the locker room. Remember, the coaches give speeches to these guys all the time about "competing" and "best players will play". Again, TS is a great guy and a great teammate, but the fact is he has been hurt and not 100% since about 2017.
In two years with the program Clifford "has seen VERY limited reps at QB." He has gotten a few games at "garbage time." Its not like Clifford has a lot of experience at QB.
 
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Trace’s 40 yard dash and shuttle are both faster than Tommy’s.
Franklin is quoted in The Collegian stating that Tommy runs a 4.5. If Trace is faster, my mistake. The shuttle, I have no idea what Tommy runs.
 
Clifford is the new shiny plaything for fanboys. We were one more bomb thrown by Levis(in a bullshit scrimmage) away from a campaign for him to be the starter. Clifford certainly throws a good deep ball.....and will be a solid backup/alternative should Stevens be ineffective or injured. Real coaches are not swayed by performance in garbage time and have hundreds of hours of practice tapes to make their decisions on. PSU needs Tommy to be healthy and running the offense (and running the ball) for things to go. I believe he is faster (than Trace) and carries a big pop when running the ball. He has the best grasp of the system (5 years) and Clifford will be more than ready for his final 2 years at PSU. If I were a betting man (and I am) I would wager that the decision has already been made internally.
Agreed.
 
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Rock solid prediction.....you heard it here first: Clifford or Stevens.....after the first loss the board lights up with screams for the "back up!"
FWIW, I’d only agree with you if Stevens is named the starter.

I hope Stevens gets healthy, gets the start and lights up the stage. And say, who expects us to have a first loss next season? (other than OSU, UM and MSU... cough cough..). Let’s be positive! :cool:
 
TS was pretty injured himself last year even moreso than TM.

at the end of the year yes, but not for the first half or more of the season. If I was Tommy's parents then i would not be real happy with how things played out last year. The Lion position was sort of a dud nothing and not used very well. And there were some times when I think that Tommy should have gotten to play in the 3rd quarter or 4th quarter to get some real reps with the first team when PSU was up and the game was essentially out of reach to be given a shot to get some playing time that were not last series or two garbage reps. And the craziness that was the MIchigan game. Tommy has some legit gripes on how last year played out in my opinion.

And then he finally does get his shot but he gets hurt and is out all bowl practice and winter work-outs and is limited in the spring. that has to really suck if you are Tommy and be mentally extremely challenging. And then to see Clifford get all the reps and improve has to make it even moreso.'

I hope that Tommy is back to 100% healthy, has a good summer and has a MRob type senior year. And I hope Clifford continues to improve and ends up being the next Trace come 2020. The two are not mutually exclusive.
 
You're forgetting the single greatest signal caller to wear a PSU uniform. This man struck such terror in the hearts of opposing defenses they actively sought to not injure the PSU starter so as to not face him. This man was destined to be a first round pick, if not THE first pick in the NFL draft. You're forgetting the legendary Pat Devlin. SMH
The crispest handoffs football has ever seen, single-handedly won us the OSU game that year.
 
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I don't see anything unusual in the article. Why would Stevens stay if he isn't the starter? If healthy, he will be the starter.
Trying to create a "disconnect" with the family is a belly laugh. I thought Dad sounded respectful (especially for Clifford) and responded to questions in a thoughtful and realistic manner.
Still belly laughing?
 
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And those posters turned out to be right. The only time the Stevens over Trace sector MIGHT have been accurate is when Trace was dinged up.

Stevens, if healthy (I'm sure it's getting old to say) will likely earn the opportunity to be our starter. As competitive as Clifford is said to be, he's only going to push harder with the competition remaining open.

Not exactly but I hear ya.
 
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