Does Michigan's recent dominance over Ohio st change the recruiting equation?

Online Persona

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The 23 class is not set in stone and it probably has more impact on '24 and '25. But Ohio St now has the #6 class in '23 and I cannot remember how long ago it was that they didn't sign the #1, 2, or 3 class in the country. They have more 5 stars on their current roster than the entire big 10 combined. But Michigan has not just beaten them twice in a row with less talent, they have absolutely embarrassed Ohio St 2 years in a row with much less talent.

Michigan is sitting at the #20 class for '23 which is also a little worse than usual. But does the equation change in the future? I mean Michigan is clearly the top big 10 team and Ohio St is a distant 2nd right now despite having way higher talent on the roster. Does this put Day on the hot seat? Some in the media are already calling for Day to get replaced by Meyer. Do 5 star recruits want to sign up to get pounded annually by their hated rival to the north that has much less talent?
 

jimarnp

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The 23 class is not set in stone and it probably has more impact on '24 and '25. But Ohio St now has the #6 class in '23 and I cannot remember how long ago it was that they didn't sign the #1, 2, or 3 class in the country. They have more 5 stars on their current roster than the entire big 10 combined. But Michigan has not just beaten them twice in a row with less talent, they have absolutely embarrassed Ohio St 2 years in a row with much less talent.

Michigan is sitting at the #20 class for '23 which is also a little worse than usual. But does the equation change in the future? I mean Michigan is clearly the top big 10 team and Ohio St is a distant 2nd right now despite having way higher talent on the roster. Does this put Day on the hot seat? Some in the media are already calling for Day to get replaced by Meyer. Do 5 star recruits want to sign up to get pounded annually by their hated rival to the north that has much less talent?
5 star Ferraris’ aren’t worth much if they’re forced to play an “ off road” game. —-Maybe it’s a good example that coaching, basic execution, & chemistry can trump raw talent ( although Michigan has it’s share of that too…… plus big, strong linemen). —- Big, strong, athletic linemen can make any RB better…. No matter their star designation
 

PSU Soupy

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they have won 2 out of what 13...... Good for U of M they beat tOSU by outmanning them......This OSU team missed on the elite DL players....other than when they could match up the DE against Effner on the OL.

This OSU team is young.....great QB Play, loaded at WR, good OL, Decent DL without a dominate player. Good LBs, young secondary. Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin will force big 10 teams to get bigger on defense or get bullied with the running game.
 
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Online Persona

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they have won 2 out of what 13...... Good for U of M they beat tOSU by outmanning them......This OSU team missed on the elite DL players....other than when they could match up the DE against Effner on the OL.

This OSU team is young.....great QB Play, loaded at WR, good OL, Decent DL without a dominate player. Good LBs, young secondary. Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin will force big 10 teams to get bigger on defense or get bullied with the running game.
1) Michigan didn't just win the last 2, they dominated Ohio St in the last 2. Just FYI but your stat of 2 of the last 13 is not correct and games that were played a decade and a half ago aren't very relevant to today or recruits today.

2. The Buckeyes dline should be much more dominant than you have aptly pointed out. They have brought in three 5 star (#4, #5, and #12 overall at any position), nine 4 star, and seven total top100 overall at any position defensive linemen in the last 4 recruiting classes. How you don't have a dominant dline with that much talent has to be horrible coaching and development.
 

PSU Soupy

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Harrison is the one who I thought would be dominant. He is good, but not dominant.

I think that if anyone changes it will be PSU heard from Franklin about getting bigger on DL and OL. Which is a need.
 

LandoComando

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1) Michigan didn't just win the last 2, they dominated Ohio St in the last 2. Just FYI but your stat of 2 of the last 13 is not correct and games that were played a decade and a half ago aren't very relevant to today or recruits today.

2. The Buckeyes dline should be much more dominant than you have aptly pointed out. They have brought in three 5 star (#4, #5, and #12 overall at any position), nine 4 star, and seven total top100 overall at any position defensive linemen in the last 4 recruiting classes. How you don't have a dominant dline with that much talent has to be horrible coaching and development.
You're right. Michigan did but I think it takes more than 2 gaps to change perception. If Ohio State doesn't win next year that's when I think you'll see a major impact. Remember Ohio State still might get in the playoff this year--if they do that and win a game that carries far more weight than the Michigan fiasco. Just like if Michigan were to get blown out by TCU or USC that's a problem for them.
 

AdvanSix

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The 23 class is not set in stone and it probably has more impact on '24 and '25. But Ohio St now has the #6 class in '23 and I cannot remember how long ago it was that they didn't sign the #1, 2, or 3 class in the country. They have more 5 stars on their current roster than the entire big 10 combined. But Michigan has not just beaten them twice in a row with less talent, they have absolutely embarrassed Ohio St 2 years in a row with much less talent.

Michigan is sitting at the #20 class for '23 which is also a little worse than usual. But does the equation change in the future? I mean Michigan is clearly the top big 10 team and Ohio St is a distant 2nd right now despite having way higher talent on the roster. Does this put Day on the hot seat? Some in the media are already calling for Day to get replaced by Meyer. Do 5 star recruits want to sign up to get pounded annually by their hated rival to the north that has much less talent?
UM's win again already has had an impact.
 

Online Persona

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You're right. Michigan did but I think it takes more than 2 gaps to change perception. If Ohio State doesn't win next year that's when I think you'll see a major impact. Remember Ohio State still might get in the playoff this year--if they do that and win a game that carries far more weight than the Michigan fiasco. Just like if Michigan were to get blown out by TCU or USC that's a problem for them.
The majority of Ohio St's team next year will have only been blown out by Michigan. Perception is very different for old timers and college/hs kids.
 

fastlax16

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The 23 class is not set in stone and it probably has more impact on '24 and '25. But Ohio St now has the #6 class in '23 and I cannot remember how long ago it was that they didn't sign the #1, 2, or 3 class in the country. They have more 5 stars on their current roster than the entire big 10 combined..

Splitting hairs but they were #4 in the composite last year, #5 in 2020 and #14 in 2019 (very small class).

They're 6th in 2023 but only have 19 commits at the moment. The top 5 all have 21-25.
 

LandoComando

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The majority of Ohio St's team next year will have only been blown out by Michigan. Perception is very different for old timers and college/hs kids.
Do you think HS/college kids no longer consider Ohio State elite or on Michigan's level?
Honest question. I don't think that's true. I think they still see it as Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia then Michigan, USC, Clemson then maybe ND, LSU, Texas, Oklahoma, us, etc.
 

blair10

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The 23 class is not set in stone and it probably has more impact on '24 and '25. But Ohio St now has the #6 class in '23 and I cannot remember how long ago it was that they didn't sign the #1, 2, or 3 class in the country. They have more 5 stars on their current roster than the entire big 10 combined. But Michigan has not just beaten them twice in a row with less talent, they have absolutely embarrassed Ohio St 2 years in a row with much less talent.

Michigan is sitting at the #20 class for '23 which is also a little worse than usual. But does the equation change in the future? I mean Michigan is clearly the top big 10 team and Ohio St is a distant 2nd right now despite having way higher talent on the roster. Does this put Day on the hot seat? Some in the media are already calling for Day to get replaced by Meyer. Do 5 star recruits want to sign up to get pounded annually by their hated rival to the north that has much less talent?

No, is the short answer. Recruiting strategy should not change year to year based on the success or failure of a particular team. A good head coach should have a clear vision about the type of identity he wants to establish for his team and then formulate a strategy to get there.
 

Online Persona

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Splitting hairs but they were #4 in the composite last year, #5 in 2020 and #14 in 2019 (very small class).

They're 6th in 2023 but only have 19 commits at the moment. The top 5 all have 21-25.
I stand corrected. Did they rerank the classes? I check pretty consistently and don't recall seeking anyone other than Ohio St, Alabama, and Georgia in the top 3 with A&Ms bought class last year being the exception. But they even have some Alabama classes out of the top 3 now.
 

rrdd2021

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Splitting hairs but they were #4 in the composite last year, #5 in 2020 and #14 in 2019 (very small class).

They're 6th in 2023 but only have 19 commits at the moment. The top 5 all have 21-25.
That's why it's best to look at the Composite rating per recruit right now and also some of the recruits that each school still has a shot at
 

walleye38

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The 23 class is not set in stone and it probably has more impact on '24 and '25. But Ohio St now has the #6 class in '23 and I cannot remember how long ago it was that they didn't sign the #1, 2, or 3 class in the country. They have more 5 stars on their current roster than the entire big 10 combined. But Michigan has not just beaten them twice in a row with less talent, they have absolutely embarrassed Ohio St 2 years in a row with much less talent.

Michigan is sitting at the #20 class for '23 which is also a little worse than usual. But does the equation change in the future? I mean Michigan is clearly the top big 10 team and Ohio St is a distant 2nd right now despite having way higher talent on the roster. Does this put Day on the hot seat? Some in the media are already calling for Day to get replaced by Meyer. Do 5 star recruits want to sign up to get pounded annually by their hated rival to the north that has much less talent?
I don't think so. Who know what players will be with what team next year. College Football is now a business. A Big Business with lots of cash.
 

Dylan Callaghan-Croley

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IMO, it doesn't all that much. Michigan is going to always compete for some five stars here and there but for the most part, they're not going to change their recruiting philosophy. They're always going to take underrated kids as well.
 

ND Heaven68

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OSU has been a recruiting powerhouse going back to the days of Woody Hayes. They'll still have top 5 to 10 classes every year - just the way it is. I just read on Eleven Warriors that they've only had 2 losing seasons going clear back to the mid 1960s - that's impressive. Now the difference is the uptick in Michigan's recruiting but right now it isn't happening.

There are certain schools - because of their tradition - that will continue to recruit well no matter what......ND, OSU, Alabama and yes, PSU.
 
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Online Persona

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Do you think HS/college kids no longer consider Ohio State elite or on Michigan's level?
Honest question. I don't think that's true. I think they still see it as Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia then Michigan, USC, Clemson then maybe ND, LSU, Texas, Oklahoma, us, etc.
Some of it is positional. Michigan just landed a top '24 OL in Ohio and the kid had some negative things to say about Ohio St. Not the first or the last but I think these kids are seeing lower rated recruits at Michigan getting developed and coached better than the higher rated ones they push around at Ohio St.

One year could be a fluke but Michigan has pretty much imposed their will on Ohio St 2 straight years. Recruits are noticing.
 

ND Heaven68

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Some of it is positional. Michigan just landed a top '24 OL in Ohio and the kid had some negative things to say about Ohio St. Not the first or the last but I think these kids are seeing lower rated recruits at Michigan getting developed and coached better than the higher rated ones they push around at Ohio St.

One year could be a fluke but Michigan has pretty much imposed their will on Ohio St 2 straight years. Recruits are noticing.
Seriously? OSU is close to adding 4-star Mickens, The 4-star QB from SD and are still the front runner for 5-star DE Damon Wilson. Where are you getting your info?
 

Online Persona

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Seriously? OSU is close to adding 4-star Mickens, The 4-star QB from SD and are still the front runner for 5-star DE Damon Wilson. Where are you getting your info?
Are you an Ohio St fan who also cannot read? Seem to know alot about who Ohio St supposedly leads with for the casual ND fan.

Try rereading my post, I said it may be positional. Michigan isn't just leading with a top Ohio OL (not a qb or de), they landed him. OL is bullying Ohio St upfront annually now. Ohio St had a bigger talent gap the last 2 years and simply was pushed around. Looks like Michigan is planning to continue doing that for awhile.
 

ND Heaven68

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Are you an Ohio St fan who also cannot read? Seem to know alot about who Ohio St supposedly leads with for the casual ND fan.

Try rereading my post, I said it may be positional. Michigan isn't just leading with a top Ohio OL (not a qb or de), they landed him. OL is bullying Ohio St upfront annually now. Ohio St had a bigger talent gap the last 2 years and simply was pushed around. Looks like Michigan is planning to continue doing that for awhile.
I've noticed a trend here that anyone that disagrees over the OBSESSION you have with OSU is an OSU fan. Guess what, others have different opinions - like it or not
 

Online Persona

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I've noticed a trend here that anyone that disagrees over the OBSESSION you have with OSU is an OSU fan. Guess what, others have different opinions - like it or not
I simply asked if you were but your response seems to confirm the suspicion. There are definitely a few Buckeyes posting here as if they are fans from another school. Most notoriously is Lando and that guy who pretends to be an over the top Michigan fan although he disappeared since the over the top joking predictions he made about Michigan dominating Ohio St have actually occurred.
 

ND Heaven68

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I simply asked if you were but your response seems to confirm the suspicion. There are definitely a few Buckeyes posting here as if they are fans from another school. Most notoriously is Lando and that guy who pretends to be an over the top Michigan fan although he disappeared since the over the top joking predictions he made about Michigan dominating Ohio St have actually occurred.
Like I said, you have it all figured out. You seem to target OSU when you should be targeting the 2x defending B1G champs (after Saturday) Michigan
 

Online Persona

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Like I said, you have it all figured out. You seem to target OSU when you should be targeting the 2x defending B1G champs (after Saturday) Michigan
I'm not targeting anyone. I can't stand Michigan and they may be the most arrogant fanbase out there. But you have to be honest with yourself and admit that they have just been absolutely dominant over Ohio St the last two years. They basically took their will.

PSU fans and the rest of the country see that as calling a spade a spade. Maybe an Ohio St fan might feel like telling it like it is would be targeting them because Michigan took their manhood.
 
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ND Heaven68

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I'm not targeting anyone. I can't stand Michigan and they may be the most arrogant fanbase out there. But you have to be honest with yourself and admit that they have just been absolutely dominant over Ohio St the last two years. They basically took their will.

PSU fans and the rest of the country see that as calling a spade a spade. Maybe an Ohio St fan might feel like telling it like it is would be targeting them because Michigan took their manhood.
Both fan bases are arrogant a-holes but the thing I was replying to was OSU's recruiting success which won't take a hit. Will Michigan's recruiting pick up ? Quite possibly but Harbaugh is more about development than impressing kids and their parents in the recruiting game
 

Online Persona

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Both fan bases are arrogant a-holes but the thing I was replying to was OSU's recruiting success which won't take a hit. Will Michigan's recruiting pick up ? Quite possibly but Harbaugh is more about development than impressing kids and their parents in the recruiting game
And you originally responded to my post above that Michigan has already LANDED a top '24 OL from Ohio right from under the Buckeyes noses. Some kid that probably grew up a buckeye fan just saw that Michigan was the better choice for a young OL. So yes, it's an early return, but there is already a recruiting impact.
 

ND Heaven68

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And you originally responded to my post above that Michigan has already LANDED a top '24 OL from Ohio right from under the Buckeyes noses. Some kid that probably grew up a buckeye fan just saw that Michigan was the better choice for a young OL. So yes, it's an early return, but there is already a recruiting impact.
OK. You're right. You always are. Does that make you feel better? Good God. This isn't your board, believe it or not. I always thought the Rivals boards were open to different opinions
 

rrdd2021

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OK. You're right. You always are. Does that make you feel better? Good God. This isn't your board, believe it or not. I always thought the Rivals boards were open to different opinions
You're just now figuring that out? Here it comes.....I'm an OSU fan
 

HazletonLion

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The addition of Rhule & Fickel changes recruiting strategy that nips into all Big 10 team areas, Michigan, OSU, and PSU.

I'd imagine Rhule hits Texas area hard but won't hesitate to delve into PSU territory. Cincinnati was jumbo heavy into Ohio so i'd imagine Fickel taps into that along with the northern tier.

On topic, Michigan likes the west coast but i notice they are dipping into Ohio the last month. PSU needs to stay geographically close, but has had some success in Michigan, on the contrary Florida hasn't been as kind to PSU in production.

Bottom line is a teams' potential in the future, and the contentment of the back ups to portal out. Recruiting has always created a continuity in depth , but the portal and the 3 year NFL eligible player creates a new dynamic.
 

IANit

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Some of it is positional. Michigan just landed a top '24 OL in Ohio and the kid had some negative things to say about Ohio St. Not the first or the last but I think these kids are seeing lower rated recruits at Michigan getting developed and coached better than the higher rated ones they push around at Ohio St.

One year could be a fluke but Michigan has pretty much imposed their will on Ohio St 2 straight years. Recruits are noticing.
Ohio State has been operating on another level recruiting-wise by Big Ten standards since John Cooper was there, and Cooper got fired because he couldn't beat Michigan, at least not enough. Michigan is winning because of its style of play, not because of more talent. I don't think it is likely that a couple of years will matter if Ohio State continues to put players in the league like it has.

Ohio State has had by my count 47 1st-round picks since 1993 when Penn State started league play, Michigan has had 23, and PSU 22. For comparison, Alabama has 41 just under Saban (I looked at 2008 on). Georgia has had 18 since 2008. Ohio State has had 24 by my count. Clemson has had 14 1st-round picks starting in 2008.
 
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LandoComando

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Some of it is positional. Michigan just landed a top '24 OL in Ohio and the kid had some negative things to say about Ohio St. Not the first or the last but I think these kids are seeing lower rated recruits at Michigan getting developed and coached better than the higher rated ones they push around at Ohio St.

One year could be a fluke but Michigan has pretty much imposed their will on Ohio St 2 straight years. Recruits are noticing.
They have imposed their will on them but I don't see the impact in recruiting yet--if it continues maybe. There's always going to be in-state kids that don't want to play for Ohio State (or Penn State or Michigan) and they may not like them. Bad experiences happen to recruits on all college campus. Sometimes kids think they're special and don't like not getting exactly what they want. I still feel like it will take time for Michigan to truly pass Ohio State. IMO it's been Ohio State (large gap) Penn State/Michigan (large gap) everyone else. Now Michigan is closing in on Ohio State. No one is yet closing in on us and if anything we've gained separation.
 

Online Persona

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They have imposed their will on them but I don't see the impact in recruiting yet--if it continues maybe. There's always going to be in-state kids that don't want to play for Ohio State (or Penn State or Michigan) and they may not like them. Bad experiences happen to recruits on all college campus. Sometimes kids think they're special and don't like not getting exactly what they want. I still feel like it will take time for Michigan to truly pass Ohio State. IMO it's been Ohio State (large gap) Penn State/Michigan (large gap) everyone else. Now Michigan is closing in on Ohio State. No one is yet closing in on us and if anything we've gained separation.
75% of Ohio St's roster next year will only know getting physically dominated by Michigan. You say if it continues but it already has. Most of Ohio St's roster next year will have getting blown out by Michigan as their only experience in "the game".
 
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LandoComando

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75% of Ohio St's roster next year will only know getting physically dominated by Michigan. You say if it continues but it already has. Most of Ohio St's roster next year will have getting blown out by Michigan as their only experience in "the game".
I think you're making too big of a deal about that--it's 2 games--you're acting like it's a decade. Using your logic how did Michigan ever beat Ohio State because they had to believe they couldn't based on the past.
 

Online Persona

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I think you're making too big of a deal about that--it's 2 games--you're acting like it's a decade. Using your logic how did Michigan ever beat Ohio State because they had to believe they couldn't based on the past.
The perception of 18 to 22 year olds is quite different than for us oldies. 2 years is 10% of their entire lifetime and there is a recency bias.
 
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Eph97

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Larry Johnson looks washed up. His DL have been pedestrian ever since Chase Young left. Hardly any pressure and sacks the whole season and got pushed around badly by UM. That said, his name still carries great weight with recruits and OSU is in on 3 5* DL (Mattayo U, Damon Wilson, and Keeon Keeley). So Day is in a predicament, does he nudge him out and risk losing this class?
 

LandoComando

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Online Persona

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He picked Michigan over Cincinnati, NCSU and Kentucky...what does that have to do with this topic? You're acting like Michigan took a 5* kid that Ohio State was chasing. This is arguably the least meaning thing I've seen in this thread yet.
That's only 1 of the 3.
 

Online Persona

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And a completely irrelevant one.
The 2024 OL was the only more that truly matters but you used the 3rd one pretending that's showing a meaningful trend. That signing wasn't meaningful to this discussion.
In 3 days since the game they have had 3 Ohio kids commit to play for Michigan. Seems pretty meaningful.