Down goes Iowa... at home

[amalone]

And they wanted Penn State?

Announcer.... "There's an eerie silence in Carver Hawkeye Arena. The crowd is filing out in droves".

21-17 NC State beats Iowa.

Iowa sure to resurrect themselves in the Big Ten's and Nationals. You can hear it now.

 

[lionlover]

And they wanted Penn State?

Announcer.... "There's an eerie silence in Carver Hawkeye Arena. The crowd is filing out in droves".

21-17 NC State beats Iowa.

Sure to resurrect themselves in the Big Ten's and Nationals. You can hear it now.

On the plus side, they don't have to wonder what would have happened if they wrestled PSU.

 

[LemonPie]

Stalling!

 

[amalone]

On the plus side, they don't have to wonder what would have happened if they wrestled PSU.

You're a CLASSIC!!!

 

[Real-Lion]

And they wanted Penn State?

Announcer.... "There's an eerie silence in Carver Hawkeye Arena. The crowd is filing out in droves".

21-17 NC State beats Iowa.

Iowa sure to resurrect themselves in the Big Ten's and Nationals. You can hear it now.

Brands will have them running after the match now. LOL. There own announcer said he already did that after one match this season for not looking good. Then he wonders why wrestlers hate him after 2 years except a hand full of guys. Hey he cried and cried he didn't want to wrestle VT. Now losses to North Carolina State. Well at least we know the true #1 now.

 

[nyc10007]

Iowa did not look good in that loss but NC State matched up well with Iowa. NC State kept it close at '25 and '33 -- down just 7-0, then Jack teched Grothus at 41, kept it close at '49, won at '57, '65 '84, kept it close at '74 and '97; and med-forfeited Iowa at Heavy.

On the Iowa message boards, some folks thought Grothus could upset Jack. Reality was, he couldn't lay a finger on him.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

Gillman and BS remain the bright spots, but Brooks I lost some faith in tonight. He just doesn't seem to show up when he is really needed. The schedule simply did not prepare this team for tough fights. This is on Tom Brands. I wouldn't count the Hawks out just yet, but I can't come up with any creative math that would allow a championship at MSG. PSU would have to fall flat, and I just don't see it happening. Meyer and Brooks would have to really step it up to keep it close.

 

[Real-Lion]

Gillman and BS remain the bright spots, but Brooks I lost some faith in tonight. He just doesn't seem to show up when he is really needed. The schedule simply did not prepare this team for tough fights. This is on Tom Brands. I wouldn't count the Hawks out just yet, but I can't come up with any creative math that would allow a championship at MSG. PSU would have to fall flat, and I just don't see it happening. Meyer and Brooks would have to really step it up to keep it close.

With all do respect the Iowa days are over. Other teams and not just PSU have simply passed them up.

 

[amalone]

Hilarious... the NC state announcer left his mic on and said....

Quote: Every time I got loud (meaning he got excited for a Wolf pack wrestler... as he was speaking to one of his colleagues... "The crowd (at Carver Hawkeye Arena... gave him "death stares" according to that student announcer. Wow... that's a shocker.

Stated also that Gwiz said in a post match interview that this team win was "Up there with winning a National Title". The student announcer said... we need to get an interview. Ummm... you might want to.

Maybe Kevin Dresser was right. Talk amongst yourselves and please discuss.

 

[raslen007]

I can feel the heat from the meltdown on HR. A bad day at black rock, maybe they re-focus

 

[amalone]

Gillman and BS remain the bright spots, but Brooks I lost some faith in tonight. He just doesn't seem to show up when he is really needed. The schedule simply did not prepare this team for tough fights. This is on Tom Brands. I wouldn't count the Hawks out just yet, but I can't come up with any creative math that would allow a championship at MSG. PSU would have to fall flat, and I just don't see it happening. Meyer and Brooks would have to really step it up to keep it close.

I'm sorry James... against the creme of the crop from the rest of the NATION... that's not happening. (Meyer and Brooks)

As Tom Brands stated after the Minnesota match... "We can't win it (National Title) with four guys. (I assume he was referring to Gilman, Clark, Sorensen and Burak.) That became even more telling tonight. Tom Brands has a pulse on what Iowa fans won't come to terms with.

 

[nyc10007]

[QUOTEAs Tom Brands stated after the Minnesota match... "We can't win it (National Title) with four guys. (I assume he was referring to Gilman, Clark, Sorensen and Burak. That became even more telling tonight. Tom Brands has a pulse on what Iowa fans won't come to terms with.[/QUOTE]

Good for him! That's a pretty cool-eyed appraisal of his own squad.

 

[lionlover]

Hilarious... the NC state announcer left his mic on and said....

Quote: Every time I got loud (meaning he got excited for a Wolf pack wrestler... as he was speaking to one of his colleagues... "The crowd (at Carver Hawkeye Arena... gave him "death stares" according to that student announcer. Wow... that's a shocker.

The Iowa fans despise the PSU announcer as well.

 

[amalone]

[QUOTEAs Tom Brands stated after the Minnesota match... "We can't win it (National Title) with four guys. (I assume he was referring to Gilman, Clark, Sorensen and Burak. That became even more telling tonight. Tom Brands has a pulse on what Iowa fans won't come to terms with.

Good for him! That's a pretty cool-eyed appraisal of his own squad.[/QUOTE]


The greatness of Tom Brands is that you get the dead truth. He tells it as it is. Some feel he's trying to stoke fires in the other six starters and to that point, Brands admitted that when he said the other six need to raise their level to the other four.

One of Tom Brand's greatest attributes is his blunt honesty.

 

[amalone]

Iowa did not look good in that loss but NC State matched up well with Iowa. NC State kept it close at '25 and '33 -- down just 7-0, then Jack teched Grothus at 41, kept it close at '49, won at '57, '65 '84, kept it close at '74 and '97; and med-forfeited Iowa at Heavy.

On the Iowa message boards, some folks thought Grothus could upset Jack. Reality was, he couldn't lay a finger on him.

Brody Grothus was supposed to be Iowa's savior this year. Anyone for Plan B?

 

[LemonPie]

 

[GOLDBANGER]

Let the games begin.

 

[WildTurk]

It was a tough loss indeed. A lot of things went in the wrong direction. I'm bummed. But I am not surprised to see Amalone, Lemon Pie, Spyker and JPWhitters lead this thread. Haters gonna hate

 

[dunkej01]

Grothus can't get teched. Simple as that.

Love the kid and his dedication but jack should not be 15 pts better than him.

 

[amalone]

It was a tough loss indeed. A lot of things went in the wrong direction. I'm bummed. But I am not surprised to see Amalone, Lemon Pie, Spyker and JPWhitters lead this thread. Haters gonna hate

And WildThing... I'm not surprised Iowa lost. At least we're not shocked by similar occurrences.

 

[T J]

And they wanted Penn State?

Announcer.... "There's an eerie silence in Carver Hawkeye Arena. The crowd is filing out in droves".

21-17 NC State beats Iowa.

WOW!!!

Ho - ly Smokes.

Did not see that coming,

Thanks Amalone!

 

[WildTurk]

And WildThing... I'm not surprised Iowa lost. At least we're not shocked by similar occurrences.

Haters gonna hate

 

[amalone]

Haters gonna h

No... I actually enjoyed this loss. You've got it backwards... WildDog.

 

[WildTurk]

Haters gonna hate

 

[hlstone]

Players are going to play

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

With all do respect the Iowa days are over. Other teams and not just PSU have simply passed them up.

I do agree with that - a guy like Brooks has a 20-2 record coming into tonight's match against Renda, but the gaudy record is built against nobodies and his relatively high ranking especially relative to Renda is via living on Iowa's past reputation (15 years ago, an Iowa wrestler sports a 20-2 record this late in the season, they're a threat to win both b1g's and nationals......not any more). Reality, Renda, a second 10 rated wrestler, handled Brooks with ease. Honestly, I'm not all that impressed with Burak either - decent wrestler, but does anyone here really believe he will wrestle to his current #4 ranking at NCAAs (e.g., make the semis of the Champ Bracket). I question whether he'll wrestle to his #3 seeding at b1g's - I'm guessing final will be Pfarr and Smack and I could easily see Burak getting upset and finishing lower than 3.

 

[oldlion57]

With the Bigs being held at CHA you can bet that they will be up for the Tournament. Feel sure Brands will use this loss as a motivator.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Haters gonna hate

True that. However, PSU fans still have to take a back seat to Iowa fans as haters.

Haters gonna hate

True that, but it works both ways. There are plenty of Iowa fans that are haters too. Plus, you constantly pointing out the failings of PSU fans on our own board does not say anything good about you except that haters gonna hate. You should take a look in the mirror for your own peace of mind.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

It was a tough loss indeed. A lot of things went in the wrong direction. I'm bummed. But I am not surprised to see Amalone, Lemon Pie, Spyker and JPWhitters lead this thread. Haters gonna hate

Your definition of hate is awful soft. Did you ever in your life wrestle Nate? I didn't think so.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Your definition of hate is awful soft. Did you ever in your life wrestle Nate? I didn't think so.

I think WildTurkey should take his own advice and go back to HR and be a lover, not a hater. What precisely he is going to "love on" about Iowa Wrestling over there after this debacle, I have no idea and don't particularly care at least he won't be here...

 

[AgSurfer]

It seems to me that Brands doesn't have the right approach to getting his wrestlers to peak at the right time. Earlier in the season, Iowa looked like they could give Penn State a good challenge. The team that wrestled on Sunday would not have had a chance. Contrast that to Penn State since Cael has been there. Even in the two seasons where they did not win the national championship, they still turned in a respectable performance. And although I will concede that Ok State came into Rec Hall on Sunday without their best lineup, I don't think the overall outcome would have changed unless an unlikely upset had occurred. How we do at the Big Ten and NCAA tournaments will either prove or disprove my point, but so far, everything is pointing to the same outcome that we saw in 2011 - 2014.

 

[KidNittany]

My thoughts:

Too much schaudenfreude
Burak is absolutely a top 4 contender. Very good wrestler from a very good wrestling family.
And...
Brands has gotten his guys to peak considering he has won multiple titles. The thing that people don't like admitting is that Penn State as a program is just better right now. Iowa is always going to be there...but other programs have fought into that heap as well. There are so many solid teams now, which is awesome for wrestling, and they're coming from all over. The rise of NC State, Ohio State establishing itself, VT wrestling like it is, Missouri, Flynn at Edinboro, and then you get Arizona State firing and there's a lot of parity nationwide. Even the smaller schools are putting out quality kids (SD State, App State). Great time for the sport.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

My thoughts:

Too much schaudenfreude
Burak is absolutely a top 4 contender. Very good wrestler from a very good wrestling family.
And...
Brands has gotten his guys to peak considering he has won multiple titles. The thing that people don't like admitting is that Penn State as a program is just better right now. Iowa is always going to be there...but other programs have fought into that heap as well. There are so many solid teams now, which is awesome for wrestling, and they're coming from all over. The rise of NC State, Ohio State establishing itself, VT wrestling like it is, Missouri, Flynn at Edinboro, and then you get Arizona State firing and there's a lot of parity nationwide. Even the smaller schools are putting out quality kids (SD State, App State). Great time for the sport.

I don't disagree with a single thing you posted. Iowa is not dead in the water as a program, nor are they out of contention this year. Gillman can absolutely win the whole thing. Clark can end up anywhere from 2-5 imo. Brandon can get anywhere from 1-3. I don't see anything but maybe a couple of wins between 141,157,165. I still believe Meyer is capable of sneaking on the stand, and Brooks can be either very hot or very cold but could see a hot Brooks top 5. Burak is Mr. steady but probably not able to handle Mac or Cox very well. 3-5 is my guess. Stoll has been a bright spot despite lat night. Many tough wrestlers have looked over matched by the Gwiz.

The long and the short of it is exactly what you said. The other programs are stronger than in the past and PSU has so much top end fire power it is an uphill battle for everyone to say the least. I still believe when the dust settles at BIG and NCAA Iowa will be ahead of tOSU this year. I thought perhaps PSU wouldn't get anything at 141, but the JG I saw against OSU made me re think that. He looks like a guy that could end up on the stand this year. If PSU gets anything significant from 141,165,184 or 285 this thing will be over before it starts. Guys like Nico,JC,Zain,Nolf,Bo, and Mac are so steady it just gives your team a margin of error that seems insurmountable to these eyes. You have 6 guys I just think are all top 5, with 4 of them looking likely to wrestle Sat. night.

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

My thoughts:

Too much schaudenfreude
Burak is absolutely a top 4 contender. Very good wrestler from a very good wrestling family.
And...
Brands has gotten his guys to peak considering he has won multiple titles. The thing that people don't like admitting is that Penn State as a program is just better right now. Iowa is always going to be there...but other programs have fought into that heap as well. There are so many solid teams now, which is awesome for wrestling, and they're coming from all over. The rise of NC State, Ohio State establishing itself, VT wrestling like it is, Missouri, Flynn at Edinboro, and then you get Arizona State firing and there's a lot of parity nationwide. Even the smaller schools are putting out quality kids (SD State, App State). Great time for the sport.

+1000

Even if PSU wasn't at the top right now, it's really great to see competitiveness across the country. I know OSU likes to brag about their 34 titles but let's face it, there were only 3-5 serious competitors year in and year out for most of their early titles. Somewhat of the same scenario with Iowa in the 80s / 90s although competition was definitely ramping up by then. Gable was just a force of nature and his impact / influence on their success cannot ever be overlooked.

What I find the most humorous is that PSU is accused of being a 'johnny come lately' school with fair weather fans when many Iowa fans pack up their bags and punt at the first sign of trouble. I'll never forget sticking around for the team awards one year after the NCAA finals when, I believe, Iowa took 4th. NOBODY from Iowa stayed around to congratulate their wrestlers for all of their hard work and effort. I was appalled and hope to God we never, ever, act like that regardless of how many NCAA championships we win.

The days of entitlement are over. Game on.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

+1000

Even if PSU wasn't at the top right now, it's really great to see competitiveness across the country. I know OSU likes to brag about their 34 titles but let's face it, there were only 3-5 serious competitors year in and year out for most of their early titles. Somewhat of the same scenario with Iowa in the 80s / 90s although competition was definitely ramping up by then. Gable was just a force of nature and his impact / influence on their success cannot ever be overlooked.

What I find the most humorous is that PSU is accused of being a 'johnny come lately' school with fair weather fans when many Iowa fans pack up their bags and punt at the first sign of trouble. I'll never forget sticking around for the team awards one year after the NCAA finals when, I believe, Iowa took 4th. NOBODY from Iowa stayed around to congratulate their wrestlers for all of their hard work and effort. I was appalled and hope to God we never, ever, act like that regardless of how many NCAA championships we win.

The days of entitlement are over. Game on.

PSU passed Iowa when they hired Cael and brought him East into the middle of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the nation - and the numbers since Cael's arrival prove that very dramatically regardless of whether you want to compare Cael's post-PSU record to Iowa or to his pre-PSU record at Iowa State. The reality imho is that "Iowa has not been Iowa" since the late-1990s (e.g., the way Iowa fans like to view themselves -- e.g., the ultra-dominant Iowa of Gable's era including the Championships Zaletsky won with Gable's teams [the fact is that Z was originally named only interim coach and Gable originally only said he was taking a sabbatical due to injury, not permanently retiring. Gable only decided to permanently retire from coaching after the 1998 season]).

In any event, most Iowa fans are "living in the past" in regards to how they view Iowa wrestling and Tom Brands (e.g., the second-coming of Gable) - since Cael Sanderson came to PSU, Cael Sanderson is quite clearly the current coach pulling a "Gable", not Tom Brands. One of the most amazing parts of the whole story was Cael's great ability to be a visionary and forecast for everybody what was about to transpire -- the Iowa fans at the time (e.g., 2009 after Brands had just won his 2nd consecutive National Title and would win his 3rd that year) thought Cael was just spinning a yarn when he laid out his rationale for going to PSU, but the reality is that Cael knew, and still knows, PRECISELY what he was doing and how he was going to get there. He essentially laid out exactly how he saw things unfolding and laid down the gauntlet to Iowa in 2009 - "stop me if you can".....well they have been completely unable to stop him and Cael is putting more distance between himself and "the field", not less.

Dominant coaches in wrestling are nothing new, before Gable it was the Good Doctor at ISU and before that it was all Okie State with a tiny little bit of Oklahoma. Cael has become ascendant and the Iowa fans who like to beat their chest regarding the accomplishments of Gable are "living in the past", not the here and now, as yesterday's dual very clearly demonstrated.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

"Stop me if you can"

I don't think that's possible.

There is a post on the very top of the Iowa Board proposing about the only strategy possible.....the guy wants Iowa to hire Cael. Have to agree with the poster, there is clearly "a new sheriff in town" and his name is Cael Sanderson - the poster acknowledges that Iowa has gotten worse late in the season, not better (e.g., "wilted") in each of the past 6 years. Says Iowa clearly needs a "regime change" and proposes the old "if you can't beat the new Gable......hire him" strategy. Guy is probably correct that this is Iowa's only real viable option as hiring somebody other than Sanderson to replace Brands will only put Iowa further behind Cael and PSU.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

There is a post on the very top of the Iowa Board proposing about the only strategy possible.....the guy wants Iowa to hire Cael. Have to agree with the poster, there is clearly "a new sheriff in town" and his name is Cael Sanderson - the poster acknowledges that Iowa has gotten worse late in the season, not better (e.g., "wilted") in each of the past 6 years. Says Iowa clearly needs a "regime change" and proposes the old "if you can't beat the new Gable......hire him" strategy. Guy is probably correct that this is Iowa's only real viable option as hiring somebody other than Sanderson to replace Brands will only put Iowa further behind Cael and PSU.

BTW, here is a link to the thread. I don't participate in threads on HR, but occasionally peruse threads and look at those I find interesting.... Thought I would link this one as it is suggesting that Iowa try to hire our coach.

 

[CropDuster507]

Haters gonna hate

Players are going to play

I'm just gonna shake, shake-shake, shake-shake.

 

[WildTurk]

After using the ignore function this board has cleaned right up! Most here are knowledgeable, level headed respectful fans. Just had to ignore a few bad eggs. Hopefully McCutchen and Stoll can recover from their leg injuries soon. Looking forward to the Big Tens, Nationals and world team trials.!

 

[nyc10007]

Re Iowa's golden days, I recall a conversation with Hachiro Oishi, National Assistant Coach of the Year in the 90's at PSU, and I asked him "Why is Iowa so good?" and he looked at me like I was stupid and he told me "Because they get the best kids."

So that's apparently, the recipe: Get the best kids in the country together in a room, and they'll make themselves that much better going against each other every day. Throw in a little coaching, and the rest takes care of itself.

Sounds too easy, but maybe there's something to it . . .