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FC: Another school shooting in Florida...

Dang, getting ridiculous.

Stoneman Douglas has taken some measures of improvement but, if we're being honest, there are still multiple ways for people with malintent to get their way onto most school grounds.
 
psuro said:
appears to only be one injured...

seriously how do these kids get into these schools?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/shooting-florida-high-school-injures-slideshow-wp-185113989.html
Click to expand...

Through the doors most likely. Bigger question to me is why we as a culture think that guns are a solution to all our problems.... my guns are are solutions to the problems of protecting my livestock...that makes sense to me. I have people carrying concealed (they think) into my restaurant....some I know some I do not. I have a 38 behind the bar....I understand the reason for that..... One question is if everyone walking into my restaurant is carrying..... How do I tell the good guys from the bad and what the hell kind paranoia are they experiencing..... do they see ISIS in their daily visions ???
 
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I mean, they should make it illegal to bring guns into schools. Oh wait.

This one won't get nearly the airplay since it didn't involve an "assault rifle"

The guy brought a shotgun into the school in his guitar case, and shot someone through a door.
 
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interrobang said:
I mean, they should make it illegal to bring guns into schools. Oh wait.

This one won't get nearly the airplay since it didn't involve an "assault rifle"

The guy brought a shotgun into the school in his guitar case, and shot someone through a door.
Click to expand...
So what is the difference b/w shotgun and assault rifle? Oh right. One injured instead of many injured/dead.
 
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canuckhal said:
So what is the difference b/w shotgun and assault rifle? Oh right. One injured instead of many injured/dead.
Click to expand...
You can still take out multiple people with a shotgun unless it’s a single shot.
 
canuckhal said:
So what is the difference b/w shotgun and assault rifle? Oh right. One injured instead of many injured/dead.
Click to expand...

Yet, in a typical year, more people are killed by shotguns (and many, many more by handguns) than by "assault rifles"
 
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interrobang said:
Yet, in a typical year, more people are killed by shotguns (and many, many more by handguns) than by "assault rifles"
Click to expand...

That is true, but 'mass shootings' tend to occur when the shooter has a semi-automatic weapon with large magazines. Weapons with some range help too (see: Las Vegas). Those are the two key components - not what the rifle looks like IMO.
 
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canuckhal said:
So what is the difference b/w shotgun and assault rifle? Oh right. One injured instead of many injured/dead.
Click to expand...

Bingo. If our media is so left wing and anti-assault-rifle, this should get tons of play because it makes the case perfectly for the narrative.
 
psuro said:
appears to only be one injured...

seriously how do these kids get into these schools?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/shooting-florida-high-school-injures-slideshow-wp-185113989.html
Click to expand...

Kids are horrible towards each other these days. Absolutely horrible. This isn't a get off my lawn type of post either. Kids are basically the same, but the environments truly are different. You've got social media that they get on and not only learn horrible behaviors from, but also get no break from fellow kids and an opportunity to wind down. Plus, they know there are very few consequences for their behavior. Trying to get a kid removed from school is near impossible and kids know it. Add in some parents who either don't know/don't care/think their kid can do no wrong and it is rather shocking what kids these days have to contend with. These are the real root problems for these incidents that need to be addressed. Forget these pie in the sky proposals about gun control that not only take years, but often have a little problem with the constitution. Even if they passed muster it would realistically take decades to get the guns off the street. Instead focus on the root cause of these incidents that are actually addressable and practical with a little serious political will. And while I'm ranting, people need to understand just how soft a target schools in general are.

Now, on to these sanctioned walkouts. School administrators are off their f'ng rockers to allow these. They should not be allowed and kids should face automatic suspension for participating. Forget the damn reasons, you're basically advertising when large groups of students are extremely vulnerable, even more so than normal, when their safety is supposed to be part of the schools' mandate. Parents even have little to no say in their kids participation too. It's mind boggling how poorly thought out these things are.
 
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Midnighter said:
That is true, but 'mass shootings' tend to occur when the shooter has a semi-automatic weapon with large magazines. Weapons with some range help too (see: Las Vegas). Those are the two key components - not what the rifle looks like IMO.
Click to expand...

No, mass shootings that get any attention occur with semi automatic weapons. And every rifle has the range to hit a crown from a hotel room.
 
psuro said:
Well when a kid can walk into a school and take a shot at close range - it does not really matter what type of gun the kid has.
Click to expand...
Caliber does not. Rate of fire does matter.

And even caliber makes some difference, because the fatality rate will/could be higher as you move to higher powered rounds.
 
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91Joe95 said:
Kids are horrible towards each other these days. Absolutely horrible. This isn't a get off my lawn type of post either. Kids are basically the same, but the environments truly are different. You've got social media that they get on and not only learn horrible behaviors from, but also get no break from fellow kids and an opportunity to wind down. Plus, they know there are very few consequences for their behavior. Trying to get a kid removed from school is near impossible and kids know it. Add in some parents who either don't know/don't care/think their kid can do no wrong and it is rather shocking what kids these days have to contend with. These are the real root problems for these incidents that need to be addressed. Forget these pie in the sky proposals about gun control that not only take years, but often have a little problem with the constitution. Even if they passed muster it would realistically take decades to get the guns off the street. Instead focus on the root cause of these incidents that are actually addressable and practical with a little serious political will. And while I'm ranting, people need to understand just how soft a target schools in general are.

Now, on to these sanctioned walkouts. School administrators are off their f'ng rockers to allow these. They should not be allowed and kids should face automatic suspension for participating. Forget the damn reasons, you're basically advertising when large groups of students are extremely vulnerable, even more so than normal, when their safety is supposed to be part of the schools' mandate. Parents even have little to no say in their kids participation too. It's mind boggling how poorly thought out these things are.
Click to expand...

I dont have much to say about these student walkout protests but the "dont let this happen becaue the large group of students are so many sitting ducks when we should be trying to protect them " is a moronic right wing talking point.

I guarantee if they were walking out to protest abortions this arguement would not be made by the right. The left would have something equally moronic to say about that i am sure.
 
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lj4heisman1 said:
I dont have much to say about these student walkout protests but the "dont let this happen becaue the large group of students are so many sitting ducks when we should be trying to protect them " is a moronic right wing talking point.

I guarantee if they were walking out to protest abortions this arguement would not be made by the right. The left would have something equally moronic to say about that i am sure.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but it's a blanket type statement, for both sides.
 
interrobang said:
No, mass shootings that get any attention occur with semi automatic weapons. And every rifle has the range to hit a crown from a hotel room.
Click to expand...

Right. Because with semi-automatic weapons, the death toll is likely to be much higher, and that is what gets the attention - not what kind of weapon is used. Certainly, the most popular weapon of choice in mass shootings on record are semi-automatic handguns. Even your standard issue Glock 17 has a 17 round magazine. If you look at incidents with the highest casualty count (Columbine, VT, Sandy Hook, Florida night club), they're places where victims don't have a lot of room to maneuver and are like fish in a barrel. And where the weapon of choice was semi-automatic.
 
Kids today can do their bullying from the safety of their mom's basement. Too few of them have ever been punched in the face- which is sometimes the best wake up call you can have. So they keep doing it, and sometimes they turn their victims into monsters.
 
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psuro said:
Was this kid-the shooter-bullied?
Click to expand...

Dunno. But, no fatalities and one injured. Shooter's name was, wait for it, Sky Bouche. Articles I read didn't mention any motive. Kid dropped the shotgun after he fired one shot and ran.
 
91Joe95 said:
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but it's a blanket type statement, for both sides.
Click to expand...

I am never disappointed by the moronic statements and positions on both extreme ends of the political spectrum, it is to be expected

the one I pointed out above is a case in point
 
The school I work in has sent letters home 4 times, sent robo calls, email etc regarding students not opening doors for people to get in. Kids are late but text their friend to let them in, or in the 4 cases that brought letters, the kids let in kids that dont belong in our school but had to come and deal their drugs. Maybe we should pull a Joe Clark from Lean on me and chain the doors shut.
 
lj4heisman1 said:
I am never disappointed by the moronic statements and positions on both extreme ends of the political spectrum, it is to be expected

the one I pointed out above is a case in point
Click to expand...

Would you like to point out how often kids are just allowed to walk out of the school during school hours without consequences? There's a reason they're not, you just can't be bothered to acknowledge it.
 
91Joe95 said:
Would you like to point out how often kids are just allowed to walk out of the school during school hours without consequences? There's a reason they're not, you just can't be bothered to acknowledge it.
Click to expand...

The reason is NOT that they will be a target for folks who will know where they are, that is the moronic reason being used.
 
So, what's changed? Back in the '60s-'80s, there weren't very many mass shootings. There was the University of Texas shooting in 1966, and another in 1975 in Hamilton, Ohio. Only mass shootings in those decades, and they weren't kids. Having shootings were pretty much unheard of in my generation. And, we had guns in our cars or trucks for hunting purposes.

To say that guns are the problems seems to be a little shortsighted. There's something else going on. Its pretty easy to go for the low hanging fruit and say its all the gun's fault, and if we ban them, the problem goes away. It's the shooter's fault and something is causing that. We didn't have it 3 decades ago, but now we do. Guns are pretty much the same - lethal. What changed?

Sitting around and talking about banning guns or not will not reduce mass killings. When guns are outlawed, like in Europe, they go to different means. The largest killing in the US wasn't with guns.
 
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Rip_E_2_Joe_PA said:
Through the doors most likely. Bigger question to me is why we as a culture think that guns are a solution to all our problems.... my guns are are solutions to the problems of protecting my livestock...that makes sense to me. I have people carrying concealed (they think) into my restaurant....some I know some I do not. I have a 38 behind the bar....I understand the reason for that..... One question is if everyone walking into my restaurant is carrying..... How do I tell the good guys from the bad and what the hell kind paranoia are they experiencing..... do they see ISIS in their daily visions ???
Click to expand...
So many opinions here it would take me all morning to reply, however, yours is easy since I merely want to make one more point to agree with you! I only carry when I know I will be coming home in the dark with my wife. I have instructed her that she gets my tauras .38 (I'm frugal!) and if anyone stops to help us, she not take her eyes off them and keeps her hands in her pocket with the .38. It is about protecting her, as she is very attractive and in great physical condition, and not me. Now, to your point, I am not stating that if someone walks in and starts shooting at a crowd it would be great if someone took them out, however, I've always felt that you don't know you are about to get armed robbed so they already have a gun pointed at you. Your weapon is now useless. I suppose you could shoot them thru your clothing, have a wild west shoot out, or in the back as they leave! Can't resist making a political statement. I hate the nra! Any rational person knows the democrats or anyone else are not going to disarm us. They prey on the irrational paranoid!
 
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emrtmakesshiteup said:
I hate the nra! Any rational person knows the democrats or anyone else are not going to disarm us.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of places you could live right now where democrats have no serious political opposition... and your wife would not be allowed to carry that .38 when walking in the dark.
 
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emrtmakesshiteup said:
So many opinions here it would take me all morning to reply, however, yours is easy since I merely want to make one more point to agree with you! I only carry when I know I will be coming home in the dark with my wife. I have instructed her that she gets my tauras .38 (I'm frugal!) and if anyone stops to help us, she not take her eyes off them and keeps her hands in her pocket with the .38. It is about protecting her, as she is very attractive and in great physical condition, and not me. Now, to your point, I am not stating that if someone walks in and starts shooting at a crowd it would be great if someone took them out, however, I've always felt that you don't know you are about to get armed robbed so they already have a gun pointed at you. Your weapon is now useless. I suppose you could shoot them thru your clothing, have a wild west shoot out, or in the back as they leave! Can't resist making a political statement. I hate the nra! Any rational person knows the democrats or anyone else are not going to disarm us. They prey on the irrational paranoid!
Click to expand...
I'm a lifelong gun owner, and have had a CCW for as long as I can remember. But I agree with you. The NRA is in the business of boosting gun sales for their bosses, who are the manufacturers, not the "members". Their propaganda has drowned out sensible discussion of the issue, so now it's only a shouting match between two extreme positions- both of which are wrong.
 
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TheBumble said:
There are plenty of places you could live right now where democrats have no serious political opposition... and your wife would not be allowed to carry that .38 when walking in the dark.
Click to expand...
"when I know I will be coming home in the dark" I guess I should have said should I get a flat or some other car issue. Relative to my wife's safety, I could give a rats butt about the carry laws, however, standing there is hardly walking in the dark!
 
Rip_E_2_Joe_PA said:
Through the doors most likely. Bigger question to me is why we as a culture think that guns are a solution to all our problems.... my guns are are solutions to the problems of protecting my livestock...that makes sense to me. I have people carrying concealed (they think) into my restaurant....some I know some I do not. I have a 38 behind the bar....I understand the reason for that..... One question is if everyone walking into my restaurant is carrying..... How do I tell the good guys from the bad and what the hell kind paranoia are they experiencing..... do they see ISIS in their daily visions ???
Click to expand...
If i lived in a place where i thought I had to carry to be safe, i would move. I have, on occasion, had an unloaded handgun in the trunk of my car or toolbox of my pickup. Always creates more anxiety than it resolves. I own guns, and I would use them to protect my family, but killing some mook who wants to steal my chainsaw for drug money would, on balance, be way worse for me than losing my saw.

Purely my personal view. If your whole existence is kill or be killed, it is a sorry existence.

Here in WV, we have permitless concealed carry. That means that any mope who can get his hands on a gun is allowed to carry it, without safety training, loaded, anywhere except a school, a courthouse, or the state capitol building where the idiots who passed this law work.

Anytime I am in a WV movie theatre or bar or restaurant, some TOTALLY UNTRAINED CLOWN can kill me or my family without even intending to, because nobody ever required that he know how to even load a gun, let alone where the safety is. Breathtakingly stupid.
 
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interrobang said:
I mean, they should make it illegal to bring guns into schools. Oh wait.
Click to expand...
So, the fact that criminals will break the law is a reason to have no laws. Huh. We sure are wasting a lot of money on police and courts and jails. Do you advocate abolishing the police?
 
demlion said:
So, the fact that criminals will break the law is a reason to have no laws. Huh. We sure are wasting a lot of money on police and courts and jails. Do you advocate abolishing the police?
Click to expand...

I'm responding to the trendy idea to "fix" things being just add more gun laws.
 
interrobang said:
I'm responding to the trendy idea to "fix" things being just add more gun laws.
Click to expand...
But if what you say is true, why should i pay tax money to keep criminals off your property? Or stop drunks from killing your friends on the highway?

Criminals dont follow the law, right? Why try to stop them by using expensive cops and courts?
 
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