Fc. LaVar on Dan Snyder. Don’t look him in the eye

[sluggo72]

Seems so bizarre to me so I thought it needed its own thread....
Washington has fired another coach in Jay Gruden, but one former player says the problem with the team is that you can’t fire the owner.

LaVar Arrington, a linebacker who was selected by Washington with the second overall pick in 2000, played there six years and later covered the team as a broadcaster, said on FS1 that Dan Snyder is to blame.


“The root of the issue is ownership,” Arrington said.

Arrington said the culture in Washington breeds players who resent Snyder.

“You’re told not to look the owner in the eyes,” Arrington said. “You had to address him as Mr. Snyder, even as an adult, and if you were not of a certain level or stature you were told not to look at the owner.”

Those details are a little hard to believe, but Arrington is far from alone in thinking that Snyder himself is the real reason that Washington has won only one playoff game since he bought the team.

 

[BBrown]

Seems so bizarre to me so I thought it needed its own thread....
Washington has fired another coach in Jay Gruden, but one former player says the problem with the team is that you can’t fire the owner.

LaVar Arrington, a linebacker who was selected by Washington with the second overall pick in 2000, played there six years and later covered the team as a broadcaster, said on FS1 that Dan Snyder is to blame.


“The root of the issue is ownership,” Arrington said.

Arrington said the culture in Washington breeds players who resent Snyder.

“You’re told not to look the owner in the eyes,” Arrington said. “You had to address him as Mr. Snyder, even as an adult, and if you were not of a certain level or stature you were told not to look at the owner.”

Those details are a little hard to believe, but Arrington is far from alone in thinking that Snyder himself is the real reason that Washington has won only one playoff game since he bought the team.

There are a lot of Washington fans that think the GM is also a major issue.

 

[psuro]

Redskins fans are in the transfer portal.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Seems so bizarre to me so I thought it needed its own thread....
Washington has fired another coach in Jay Gruden, but one former player says the problem with the team is that you can’t fire the owner.

LaVar Arrington, a linebacker who was selected by Washington with the second overall pick in 2000, played there six years and later covered the team as a broadcaster, said on FS1 that Dan Snyder is to blame.


“The root of the issue is ownership,” Arrington said.

Arrington said the culture in Washington breeds players who resent Snyder.

“You’re told not to look the owner in the eyes,” Arrington said. “You had to address him as Mr. Snyder, even as an adult, and if you were not of a certain level or stature you were told not to look at the owner.”

Those details are a little hard to believe, but Arrington is far from alone in thinking that Snyder himself is the real reason that Washington has won only one playoff game since he bought the team.

Wow, sounds like Snyder is a delusional power hungry billionaire.....thankfully they do so well in charge!

 

[LionJim]

Redskins fans are in the transfer portal.

Never.

 

[BobPSU92]

Never.

Arsenal and the Skins. Plus Penn State. Geez. I figured you would have calculated better than that. How about baseball? Maybe go with the Yankees?

 

[LionJim]

Arsenal and the Skins. Plus Penn State. Geez. I figured you would have calculated better than that. How about baseball? Maybe go with the Yankees?

Nationals.

 

[BobPSU92]

Nationals.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Is there a case to be made to remove owners from professional sports? Couldn't every team be owned by 'the league' and just have General Managers run the day to day of the franchise? As it stands the owners aren't accountable to anyone for poor management, tanking, gouging fans, etc. Some, like the Pirates owners, just minimize costs and maximize profits - no care or stake in the building of a competitive franchise when the money is there otherwise.

 

[eidolon21]

what is an NFL team worth? What was the Skins purchase price? Asking for a friend

 

[Aardvark86]

Is there a case to be made to remove owners from professional sports? Couldn't every team be owned by 'the league' and just have General Managers run the day to day of the franchise? As it stands the owners aren't accountable to anyone for poor management, tanking, gouging fans, etc. Some, like the Pirates owners, just minimize costs and maximize profits - no care or stake in the building of a competitive franchise when the money is there otherwise.

Technically, the league can probably do these things. Practically, they can't and won't.
1. Lots and lots of litigation
2. Major sports team ownership is very clubby thing. They spend a lot of time on the front end making sure they get "the right sort of people" - ie, people just like themselves.
3. While Snyder is an absolute moron of an owner from a competitive perspective, he (and Jerry Jones) taught the league more than a few things about marketing and monetizing the value of their franchises. And the other club members are well aware of that.
4. League ownership is really not a viable thing. What makes sports teams successful is the ability to tap into local/community roots and "patriotism", etc. Ask the Montreal Expos.

 

[heckmans]

Seems so bizarre to me so I thought it needed its own thread....
Washington has fired another coach in Jay Gruden, but one former player says the problem with the team is that you can’t fire the owner.

LaVar Arrington, a linebacker who was selected by Washington with the second overall pick in 2000, played there six years and later covered the team as a broadcaster, said on FS1 that Dan Snyder is to blame.


“The root of the issue is ownership,” Arrington said.

Arrington said the culture in Washington breeds players who resent Snyder.

“You’re told not to look the owner in the eyes,” Arrington said. “You had to address him as Mr. Snyder, even as an adult, and if you were not of a certain level or stature you were told not to look at the owner.”

Those details are a little hard to believe, but Arrington is far from alone in thinking that Snyder himself is the real reason that Washington has won only one playoff game since he bought the team.

I've been in the DC metro area for 20 years. This is not news.
Dan Snyder is Al Davis East. The Skins will never compete regularly, if at all, while Snyder is in charge. Free agents don't want to come to DC, stars hold out and demand trades because they don't want to be in DC. The culture, as Lavar says, is insufferable.

Ownership in pro sports is vastly under-rated. The Redskins were very successful franchise with Jack Kent Cooke as owner. As soon as Danny boy took over and starting throwing around cash to bring in every 35yo free agent (Bruce Smith, Deion, etc) and meddle in football decisions, the franchise went in the toilet. Even a bevy of coaches that have won Superbowls and CFB MNC elsewhere couldn't overcome the owner.
Conversely, look at the Eagles. Under Norman Braman they were average. Braman didn't spend money. Under Leonard Tose before him, they managed a superbowl appearance with Dick Vermiel as HC, but were largely mediocre. As soon as Jeffrey Laurie bought the team, things changed and the Eagles have been the/one of the most competitive teams in the NFL as measured by win percentage.
Laurie is a movie producer. Not a football professional. He hired good people, supported the business and let his employees make the football decisions.
Ownership matters.

 

[BobPSU92]

Is there a case to be made to remove owners from professional sports? Couldn't every team be owned by 'the league' and just have General Managers run the day to day of the franchise? As it stands the owners aren't accountable to anyone for poor management, tanking, gouging fans, etc. Some, like the Pirates owners, just minimize costs and maximize profits - no care or stake in the building of a competitive franchise when the money is there otherwise.

CAPITALISM.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Technically, the league can probably do these things. Practically, they can't and won't.
1. Lots and lots of litigation
2. Major sports team ownership is very clubby thing. They spend a lot of time on the front end making sure they get "the right sort of people" - ie, people just like themselves.
3. While Snyder is an absolute moron of an owner from a competitive perspective, he (and Jerry Jones) taught the league more than a few things about marketing and monetizing the value of their franchises. And the other club members are well aware of that.
4. League ownership is really not a viable thing. What makes sports teams successful is the ability to tap into local/community roots and "patriotism", etc. Ask the Montreal Expos.

I get that, and realize it's preferable to have owners who have the passion to succeed, the issue is when they don't have the passion (or incentive) to win (like the Pirates or any other small market team) or they meddle in operations to the point of irrelevance (Redskins), it's a poor product that reduces competition. I don't know what it takes to be fired (or forced to sell) as an owner, but I think after 10 years if you're proving to be non-competitive and/or incompetent, your team is for sale.

 

[sluggo72]

I get that, and realize it's preferable to have owners who have the passion to succeed, the issue is when they don't have the passion (or incentive) to win (like the Pirates or any other small market team) or they meddle in operations to the point of irrelevance (Redskins), it's a poor product that reduces competition. I don't know what it takes to be fired (or forced to sell) as an owner, but I think after 10 years if you're proving to be non-competitive and/or incompetent, your team is for sale.

I am pretty sure the Eagles at one time had a force sale. I believe the reason was, the owner had a ton of legal gambling debts, big ones, and was getting squeeze, plus his real business, (trucking?) was in the tank as well. IIRC this was Leonard Tose or the guy before him. I was young back then.

 

[MJG-90]

“You’re told not to look the owner in the eyes,” Arrington said. “You had to address him as Mr. Snyder, even as an adult, and if you were not of a certain level or stature you were told not to look at the owner.”

If this is true, then Snyder is never going to win a thing. I went to St. Vincent's a few years ago to watch the Steelers at training camp. Art Rooney II pulled up on a golf cart, mingled with the fans to a degree (shook my hand and thanked me for supporting his team and a few others on his way toward the field) and went to the coaching staff. I could hear him asking how things were going, did they need anything -- the things a good owner should ask. He patted players on the back and encouraged them. Players smiled and seemed to genuinely like and respect him. I walked away from that experience with a better understanding of why the Steelers have been one of the most successful franchises for the last 50 years.

 

[LionJim]

Worth a click, as it quotes Redskins employees:

https://www.barstoolsports.com/dmv/...yone-has-to-call-him-mr-snyder-no-matter-what

 

[ftlpsu]

If this is true, then Snyder is never going to win a thing. I went to St. Vincent's a few years ago to watch the Steelers at training camp. Art Rooney II pulled up on a golf cart, mingled with the fans to a degree (shook my hand and thanked me for supporting his team and a few others on his way toward the field) and went to the coaching staff. I could hear him asking how things were going, did they need anything -- the things a good owner should ask. He patted players on the back and encouraged them. Players smiled and seemed to genuinely like and respect him. I walked away from that experience with a better understanding of why the Steelers have been one of the most successful franchises for the last 50 years.

MJG-90 I recall that you are a veteran and served in combat arms in previous life?

You know that type of general in the field---the one who shows up in clean pressed BDU's, wears a pistol belt-silver stars on his cover with an entourage and observes doesn't talk to any of the soldiers and everyone knows not to engage him-leaves 10 minutes later (General Ord-oops I say that And then the general who is out there with you talking and running maneuvers with you? I have experienced both.

Which one you think Snyder is? No respect for men like that--and I would call him out in front of people--military style

I was a battalion commanders driver, Colonel told me once I was nervous he was putting his boots on in the early AM after PT in his office..."Son I put my pants on the same way you do or any man does, relax" that stuck with me through life...

Snyder will never change...little man syndrome

 

[Aardvark86]

I get that, and realize it's preferable to have owners who have the passion to succeed, the issue is when they don't have the passion (or incentive) to win (like the Pirates or any other small market team) or they meddle in operations to the point of irrelevance (Redskins), it's a poor product that reduces competition. I don't know what it takes to be fired (or forced to sell) as an owner, but I think after 10 years if you're proving to be non-competitive and/or incompetent, your team is for sale.

Probably something akin to criminal misconduct or wife beating.

 

[MJG-90]

MJG-90 I recall that you are a veteran and served in combat arms in previous life?

You know that type of general in the field---the one who shows up in clean pressed BDU's, wears a pistol belt-silver stars on his cover with an entourage and observes doesn't talk to any of the soldiers and everyone knows not to engage him-leaves 10 minutes later (General Ord-oops I say that And then the general who is out there with you talking and running maneuvers with you? I have experienced both.

Which one you think Snyder is? No respect for men like that--and I would call him out in front of people--military style

I was a battalion commanders driver, Colonel told me once I was nervous he was putting his boots on in the early AM after PT in his office..."Son I put my pants on the same way you do or any man does, relax" that stuck with me through life...

Snyder will never change...little man syndrome

Correct, I served in the Army. Good memory on your part.

Yeah, I would definitely say he's like those officers that came out to the field all neatly pressed wanting to see what was happening but not wanting to get dirty. And wants saluted in the field (the type you salute in the field to inform the enemy who is in charge and hope they snipe him). Those dudes are at every level. We had lieutenants, captains, majors, on up the ranks -- some would want to lead by example and wear their gas masks when their soldiers were training and others would never take their mask out of its case. Some would qualify with us at the range, others couldn't be bothered. Yeah, we both know which we respected and which we just followed orders from. Great comparison.

 

[OaktonDave]

Those details are a little hard to believe, but Arrington is far from alone in thinking that Snyder himself is the real reason that Washington has won only one playoff game since he bought the team.

I'm somewhat skeptical of Lavar's story because Snyder has had more than a few pet star players whose relationship with him undermined the coaching staff. They also managed to land more than a few high end free agents under Snyder; so much that the standing joke was that they would win every spring and lose every fall. I think that stopped because the organization is a mess that shows few signs of improving more than anything else.

That said, having lived in the DC area since '87, I completely agree that Snyder is the problem. Snyder is a life long 'Skins fan who, despite all evidence to the contrary, thinks he knows what it takes to build a winning franchise. Imagine the most passionate, ill informed, stubborn poster on a sports message board and give him control of a professional sports franchise and you have Dan Snyder. So long as he thinks he knows what he's doing, it won't get better.

 

[katchthis]

CAPITALISM.

If they change the names to the Washington Commies, at least they can keep the color scheme.

 

[sluggo72]

I heard a story several years ago from Steve Bisciotti’s former CEO at Allegis Group. Apparently, Bisciotti hosted a party of Baltimore/Washington sports franchise owners. Snyder showed up and Steve greeted him by calling him “Dan”. Snyder asked Steve to address him as “Mr Snyder” to which Steve said something like look we are all equals here and if he insisted on formality then he should probably leave.
I’m not sure if that story is true but it came from one of Steve’s closest Biz associates.

The comments by LaVar lines up with the story.

you have to love Steve Bisciotti.

 

[Delco Lion]

I am pretty sure the Eagles at one time had a force sale. I believe the reason was, the owner had a ton of legal gambling debts, big ones, and was getting squeeze, plus his real business, (trucking?) was in the tank as well. IIRC this was Leonard Tose or the guy before him. I was young back then.

That was Leonard Tose. He was pretty well liked by all.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Correct, I served in the Army. Good memory on your part.

Yeah, I would definitely say he's like those officers that came out to the field all neatly pressed wanting to see what was happening but not wanting to get dirty. And wants saluted in the field (the type you salute in the field to inform the enemy who is in charge and hope they snipe him). Those dudes are at every level. We had lieutenants, captains, majors, on up the ranks -- some would want to lead by example and wear their gas masks when their soldiers were training and others would never take their mask out of its case. Some would qualify with us at the range, others couldn't be bothered. Yeah, we both know which we respected and which we just followed orders from. Great comparison.

In my experience, I thought the general officers I met were pretty good guys. I remember escorting the Staff Judge Advocate to a meeting with someone at USAREUR HQ (think he was a MG), and when introduced he told me, 'Thanks for your service,' to which I replied, 'Thank you for yours sir.' He then said, 'Son, it's easy to find someone to do my job - much harder to find someone to do yours.' Never forgot that.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Unfortunately I don’t think Snyder will ever sell He will continue to bring in has-been FAs and mortgage the next half-decade for guys like RG3 and Haynesworth. Thankfully he does not own the Nationals, Capitals, or Wizards.

 

[LionJim]

Unfortunately I don’t think Snyder will ever sell He will continue to bring in has-been FAs and mortgage the next half-decade for guys like RG3 and Haynesworth. Thankfully he does not own the Nationals, Capitals, or Wizards.

Yeah, Snyder will die as owner of the Redskins.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

@heckmans nails it - this is well-known stuff.

Snyder is the devil - an absolute piece of crap. I’ve met people who’ve directly interacted with him - to a man they despise him. Here’s the still ultimate takedown of the Littlest Telemarketer (I link it seemingly once a year)

https://www.washingtoncitypaper.com.../the-cranky-redskins-fans-guide-to-dan-snyder

 

[ILLINOISLION]

CAPITALISM.

On the other hand, this is not capitalism.

CAPITALISM....not capitalism.

 

[83wuzme]

Snyder has been the consistent problem for the team ever since he became the owner.

 

[Aardvark86]

@heckmans nails it - this is well-known stuff.

Snyder is the devil - an absolute piece of crap. I’ve met people who’ve directly interacted with him - to a man they despise him. Here’s the still ultimate takedown of the Littlest Telemarketer (I link it seemingly once a year)

https://www.washingtoncitypaper.com.../the-cranky-redskins-fans-guide-to-dan-snyder

That piece never gets old. It only gets refreshed.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

That piece never gets old. It only gets refreshed.

Some of the entries are gold.

I remember when I was ready to leave DC and my hellish law firm for Austin. When I reached 5 years of practice, I could switch jurisdictions without taking another Bar Exam. At that point, no one at the firm had leverage over me and I stopped giving a shit. I would regularly take 2 hr lunches at my favorite joint and read both the Post and Times and chuckle about the Redskins shitshow in print. Good times

 

[Victor E. Bell]

That was Leonard Tose. He was pretty well liked by all.

Ten grand a hand at AC's Sands playing all seven spots at blackjack. Guy had it bad, man. But a very generous guy in the community who also founded the Ronald McDonald House. He died all but broke I suppose. Dick Vermeil said he used to slip him cash if he seemed like he needed it. Tose said when he was signing markers at the casinos he wouldn't even know how much they were for until he got home.

Team ownership in sports certainly is fleshed out with some colorful characters.

 

[Aardvark86]

Ten grand a hand at AC's Sands playing all seven spots at blackjack. Guy had it bad, man. But a very generous guy in the community who also founded the Ronald McDonald House. He died all but broke I suppose. Dick Vermeil said he used to slip him cash if he seemed like he needed it. Tose said when he was signing markers at the casinos he wouldn't even know how much they were for until he got home.

Team ownership in sports certainly is fleshed out with some colorful characters.

My uncle managed the royals once upon a time. Somewhere during the year he got some poster that had all the al clubs’ logos on it and he decided to get all of his fellow managers to sign it. A couple of hall of famers on it. Anyway Ewing Kauffman found out about it and insisted that he be able to sign it too.

 

[Hugh Laurie]

what is an NFL team worth? What was the Skins purchase price? Asking for a friend

Forbes currently values the Skins at $3.4B. Snyder paid around $800M which I believe included the stadium. I was at a family dinner a few years ago which friend of the family Tony Noto was a guest and he told us a few stories about some of the good and not so good owners. Predictably Snyder was viewed as one of the not so good. As an aside, he said the average costs to run an NFL franchise was around $250M/yr at the time. If I hear of any franchises that go on the block I'll let you and the other board members know. :

 

[Bessmoney]

Gotta love the quote from the Sports Junkies in DC: Bruce Allen was born on third base and stands there like he just tripled. Sums this organization up perfectly.

 

[paulrandythomas]

Never.

I’m with you Jim, they are, and always will be, my team. But they will always suck with DS and BA running the show. I get chuckles on Sunday’s when I put my gear on.