Final X Thoughts and Discussion

[wrestlinPSU]

Just read about this.

Seems like a huge step in the right direction.

Apparent improved marketing.

Equally fresh wrestlers now competing for the right to represent the USA.

Cool name. Anything with "X" in it has to be cool.

FLO LINK https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6083815-flosports-usa-wrestling-announce-final-x-series-to-determine-world-team

PDF download with more details from Themat. LINK content.themat.com/forms/2018-MFS-WTT.pdf

 

[CowboyUp61]

Gonna have to be richer than I to even try to go to finals. One city for 4 days is doable for me. 4 cities spread over 6 days, not so much.

My four tickets won't be purchased. Taking the average income family out of the equation is not a good idea, IMO.

 

[wrestlinPSU]

Gonna have to be richer than I to even try to go to finals. One city for 4 days is doable for me. 4 cities spread over 6 days, not so much.

My four tickets won't be purchased. Taking the average income family out of the equation is not a good idea, IMO.

Yep. Being held over three consecutive weekends and in three different cities is potential negative. However, if the cities are spread and I presume they will be, it might make it easier for a wider population to experience it in person. Not just everyone in Iowa, PA, or MN.

It would appear they could be encouraging people who enter an event to give attention to the women's portion. Only so many matches and half are women's. Making them more of the spotlight?

What if Flo gave you a passcode to watch the other two competitions for free if you attend one in person?

 

[psumacw]

let me know if i'm interpreting this wrong, but it seems like the old world team trials are (now called World Team Trials Challenge Tournament) a feeder for this event and the winner from WTTCT faces the previous year's world team member in a best of 3?

is that the only thing going on at these Final X events? so june 16th could be just 6 men's matches and 6 women's matches and we'll call it a night? it seems like that could make for some very short events. i was at the NWCA All Star Classic and those women's matches were almost all finished within 2 minutes.

 

[wrestlinPSU]

let me know if i'm interpreting this wrong, but it seems like the old world team trials are (now called World Team Trials Challenge Tournament) a feeder for this event and the winner from WTTCT faces the previous year's world team member in a best of 3?

is that the only thing going on at these Final X events? so june 16th could be just 6 men's matches and 6 women's matches and we'll call it a night? it seems like that could make for some very short events. i was at the NWCA All Star Classic and those women's matches were almost all finished within 2 minutes.

For June 16th event for example, one could potentially see18 first place matches if they all went best of three. And you might get to see 3rd and 4th place matches if they did not met each other in the challenge tournament.

Per the PDF document. "Automatic Berth to the Final X: athletes who medaled in the 2017 Senior Men’s Freestyle World Championships at the weight being contested will receive an automatic berth to the Final X. In weights without a 2017 Senior Men’s Freestyle World Championship medalist, the 2018 U.S. Senior Men’s Freestyle Open champion will receive an automatic berth to the Final X at that respective weight."

 

[CowboyUp61]

let me know if i'm interpreting this wrong, but it seems like the old world team trials are (now called World Team Trials Challenge Tournament) a feeder for this event and the winner from WTTCT faces the previous year's world team member in a best of 3?

is that the only thing going on at these Final X events? so june 16th could be just 6 men's matches and 6 women's matches and we'll call it a night? it seems like that could make for some very short events. i was at the NWCA All Star Classic and those women's matches were almost all finished within 2 minutes.

potentially 3 matches in each weight is all, plus a maximum of 6 true seconds. Not quite the same as a 6 weight mini tournament, plus the finals. (Probably with @smalls103 hula dancing between rounds, just so Crop would go.)

If one of the series dates was in Stillwater, would be worth it to me. If in State College, Lincoln, and Iowa City to go along with Rochester, very difficult to travel and see what could have been seen in the same place, in less days, last year. With less travel time and cost. Those aren't a problem for people like Novogratz.

I am not against trying the concept, and seeing if it works. The biggest problem (for me) is that inertia seems to take over, and if it doesn't work we will still be stuck with the format for "X" years.

 

[nerfstate]

I have no idea what segment of potential attendees I represent, but here goes: So far in my fandom, I've not traveled to see freestyle events (I've barely traveled to see PSU duals or tourneys). If there's a WTT event in State College, Heck Yeah I'm going!

 

[CropDuster507]

The selfish me thinks it's great because now, other than finals, Trials are in my backyard.

The small piece of me that thinks of others thinks this is convoluted and will only serve the die-hards that care enough to read an entire page on the qualifying process.

 

[dunkej01]

interesting. I wonder why no greco....someone has similar thoughts

 

[CowboyUp61]

Just another thought/question. OK, so assume that attendance does increase over last year. But, you are renting 4 separate arenas. Paying officials travel cost for 4 different weekends. Paying USA Wrestling staff travel for 4 different weekends. the list could go on. So, how significant would the attendance increase need to be to pay the added costs?

 

[CholleyVandine]

"Final X is not just an event series but a status."

It's a shame there isn't someone in the Flo universe in a position to tell the boss man how ridiculous that sounds.

 

[tikk10]

Seems the most significant distinction for the wrestlers is that the wrestlers who earned an automatic finals berth no longer have the advantage of wrestling challenge-finals-winner on the same day that wrestler won their challenge finals. And that time delay gives Flo time to hype each final over the course of three separate weekends.

Calling the finals "Final X" comes off like misguided trademark piggybacking to ESPN's X Games, especially since that "status" conveys no real meaning; the winner is the US World Team representative, that's what's important here, not "Final X winner." Maybe smarter heads will prevail before someone spends misguided money on branding.

 

[wrestlinPSU]

Seems the most significant distinction for the wrestlers is that the wrestlers who earned an automatic finals berth no longer have the advantage of wrestling challenge-finals-winner on the same day that wrestler won their challenge finals. And that time delay gives Flo time to hype each final over the course of three separate weekends.

Calling the finals "Final X" comes off like misguided trademark piggybacking to ESPN's X Games, especially since that "status" conveys no real meaning; the winner is the US World Team representative, that's what's important here, not "Final X winner." Maybe smarter heads will prevail before someone spends misguided money on branding.

I suppose Final X could represent the final 10 that represent the USA. I think they could have done better though....like "X Men". Yeah that's it.

 

[CowboyUp61]

Seems the most significant distinction for the wrestlers is that the wrestlers who earned an automatic finals berth no longer have the advantage of wrestling challenge-finals-winner on the same day that wrestler won their challenge finals. And that time delay gives Flo time to hype each final over the course of three separate weekends.
.

Agreed those are advantages. Especially the time to hype, although they will be hyping to existing wrestling fans, not new ones IMO.

Would we be better served to have the final series the day after (and make anyone with a bye weigh in the same day as the challenge tourney) and get them ready for the two day weigh-ins?

 

[CholleyVandine]

Seems the most significant distinction for the wrestlers is that the wrestlers who earned an automatic finals berth no longer have the advantage of wrestling challenge-finals-winner on the same day that wrestler won their challenge finals. And that time delay gives Flo time to hype each final over the course of three separate weekends.

That's a big advantage.

When the "Prowl" series was first proposed, I remember Willie Saylor asking on an episode of FRL why we would change qualification procedures in a year when U.S. men and women both had outstanding showings at Worlds.

That seems like a valid question still but probably not one they will be kicking around on the next FRL.

 

[tikk10]

I suppose Final X could represent the final 10 that represent the USA. I think they could have done better though....like "X Men". Yeah that's it.

I'll admit I hadn't thought of that possibility, but then it's not exactly intuitive. If accurate, as marketing messaging goes it'd be a bit at cross purposes with the actual structure of the event, where Location A is getting III, Location B III, and Location C is getting IV finals.

Anyone want to summarize the dispute on Twitter between Xandar Schultz and Flo? I recall that Schultz put forward an aggressive idea that I didn't quite understand (and which I recall Flo mocking) and now it looks like Flo stepped in and went with the idea. And now it looks like they're arguing with each other on Twitter but I don't have the patience to sort through it.

 

[CholleyVandine]

I'll admit I hadn't thought of that possibility, but then it's not exactly intuitive. If accurate, as marketing messaging goes it'd be a bit at cross purposes with the actual structure of the event, where Location A is getting III, Location B III, and Location C is getting IV finals.

Anyone want to summarize the dispute on Twitter between Xandar Schultz and Flo? I recall that Schultz put forward an aggressive idea that I didn't quite understand (and which I recall Flo mocking) and now it looks like Flo stepped in and went with the idea. And now it looks like they're arguing with each other on Twitter but I don't have the patience to sort through it.

"Prowl" was the Xander Schultz idea. I never understood it either. (To be fair, I think he was working on the idea with wrestlers and other stakeholders and never tried to explain it publicly.) The Twitter traffic seems to be a little bit about him feeling jilted, a little bit about him worrying that Final X is going to get Flo paid but not the wrestlers, and a lot of bit about the thin-skinned Flo fellas feeling defensive.

 

[dunkej01]

will be discussion on this issue(s) on FRL tomorrow.

 

[tikk10]

will be discussion on this issue(s) on FRL tomorrow.

Preview:
"Guys, we're so right about this..."
"Totally."

 

[BoroBuilt]

I'll admit I hadn't thought of that possibility, but then it's not exactly intuitive. If accurate, as marketing messaging goes it'd be a bit at cross purposes with the actual structure of the event, where Location A is getting III, Location B III, and Location C is getting IV finals.

Anyone want to summarize the dispute on Twitter between Xandar Schultz and Flo? I recall that Schultz put forward an aggressive idea that I didn't quite understand (and which I recall Flo mocking) and now it looks like Flo stepped in and went with the idea. And now it looks like they're arguing with each other on Twitter but I don't have the patience to sort through it.

Basically prowl wouldn’t work/didn’t happen because of a broadcast contract between USA wrestling and flo. Xander keep saying months ago that they would either bring prowl to big time tv or stream it independently (ppv type model). Problem is that USA wrestling signed away the broadcast rights for the world team trials for years (something like thru 2022 iirc).

IMO if novagratz and Zander want to pay atheletes, go ahead. But don’t try to take over our trials process. $ can’t buy everything.

 

[jtothemfp]

IMO if novagratz and Zander want to pay atheletes, go ahead. But don’t try to take over our trials process. $ can’t buy everything.

"Our"? Do you work for Flo?

 

[BoroBuilt]

"Our"? Do you work for Flo?

Ha no. I meant ‘our’ like our country’s trials process. I’m not crazy about how much they are changing it in flo’s model either considering the USA just won its 1st workd team title in decades. Could be cool for fans though.

 

[tikk10]

Basically prowl wouldn’t work/didn’t happen because of a broadcast contract between USA wrestling and flo. Xander keep saying months ago that they would either bring prowl to big time tv or stream it independently (ppv type model). Problem is that USA wrestling signed away the broadcast rights for the world team trials for years (something like thru 2022 iirc).

IMO if novagratz and Zander want to pay atheletes, go ahead. But don’t try to take over our trials process. $ can’t buy everything.

That makes sense, thanks. The press release did mention Schultz, I forget whether it also mentioned Novogratz, but I guess that was just a tip of the cap for helping everyone rethink the approach.

Whatever happens, I think this is an overall positive development if only for the reason that the wrestling world has more than, say, an hour or two to talk up the finals matchups. I hope State College is one of the destinations (or even better for me personally, NYC).

 

[CholleyVandine]

That makes sense, thanks. The press release did mention Schultz, I forget whether it also mentioned Novogratz, but I guess that was just a tip of the cap for helping everyone rethink the approach.

Whatever happens, I think this is an overall positive development if only for the reason that the wrestling world has more than, say, an hour or two to talk up the finals matchups. I hope State College is one of the destinations (or even better for me personally, NYC).

Someone posted on HR that two of the three locations are State College and Bethlehem. I fully support this process if that is true

 

[NoVa Lion]

Seems like every year they make the team qualifying more complicated. Personally I think it should be made LESS complicated and just be one tournament with the winner being the team rep and previous medalists given no preference other than maybe a better seed. JMHO.

 

[BoroBuilt]

That makes sense, thanks. The press release did mention Schultz, I forget whether it also mentioned Novogratz, but I guess that was just a tip of the cap for helping everyone rethink the approach.

Whatever happens, I think this is an overall positive development if only for the reason that the wrestling world has more than, say, an hour or two to talk up the finals matchups. I hope State College is one of the destinations (or even better for me personally, NYC).

Back when prowl was involved I heard that penn state and Lincoln were going to be 2 of the 3 host cities. Not sure if that is still the plan.

 

[dunkej01]

I could be wrong but I think streaming matches or tourneys is becoming more profitable as more and more people are getting in on it.

 

[psumacw]

Back when prowl was involved I heard that penn state and Lincoln were going to be 2 of the 3 host cities. Not sure if that is still the plan.

on the most recent episode of Short Time, they talked about Lincoln, State College, and Bethlehem as the most probable 3 locations but it was not a confirmation