Foley's Friday Mailbag for 1/22/16
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
- Start date
This is the scene in Iowa City and on Hawkeye Report right now:
Time for Foley to go into hiding
Its not a great display of sportsmanship. Is it worth a national column? Probably not. He (Gilman) is a tough guy, and lots of other wrestlers do this, so the attention on Gilman is unwarranted, imo.
Gilman's, and other's, boorish behavior gets plenty of press, especially on message boards, and mostly along party lines. I think it's wrong to call a wrestler out the way T.R. did, writing for a national outlet like InterMat.
There was quite a kerfluffle on TheMat, but then again, when is there not. And he meant minor stir, not minor board.
I don't like the Face smush, but not a huge deal of course.
Haven't even been on HR today, but I like the angry jihadi images. I'll use any excuse to post one
Otherwise Foley couldn't have diagnosed Gilman more incorrectly. GIlman is a skilled wrestler. Intimidation moves are a tactic, not a result of anger or bravado. They don't take away from his technique development. I would lose no sleep if they were outlawed or penalized, but until then they do not lose him matches.
Just another case of Foley not liking something and persuading his audience with inconsistencies.
Just another case of Foley not liking something and persuading his audience with inconsistencies.
I know he meant minor stir. Was taking a jab at The Mat or elsewhere.
This part of his article merits more attention (emphasis mine). "And Purdue" (!!). Foley screwed up by neglecting the 4 or 5 very good shirts. Still, pretty funny.
Foley needs clicks and intermat also so best way to get it is write up garbage on a Iowa wrestler. Hawks not winning but everly one still hates them so he will get lots of hits . Can't believe this guy ever wrestled
it's not for clicks. Foley has been ultra consistent in his disdain for extracurriculars. he's even taken exception with me/flo for posting that kind of thing.
i just adamantly think that opinion and (journalistic) process is wrong and irresponsible.
and i think the (latest) gilman thing is 100% innocuous.
long story short - i completely disagree with TR's position, but find it genuine.
i just adamantly think that opinion and (journalistic) process is wrong and irresponsible.
and i think the (latest) gilman thing is 100% innocuous.
long story short - i completely disagree with TR's position, but find it genuine.
Almost everyone reading that article is a hard core wrestling fan. Had Foley generically referred to recent extracurricular action, we,as the reader, could have inserted several incidents that could have inspired such an editorial. Singling out Gilman is unfair. These are not professional athletes and as such don't deserve to be called out publicly. By naming Gilman in the face of a (perceived or real) bias, Foley did his message a disservice. I come away from the article thinking, "damn! dude doesn't like Hawkeyes!" instead of,"dude is right, this stuff has to stop because it could escalate (see ISU v KSU)!
I'm reading all these posts, and thinking, geez, when is someone going to break away and bust on Gilman's behavior and give kudos to Foley because, after all... it's Iowa... and we "hate" Iowa, right?
Anyway...you guys showed a lot of class, and stepped above the easy response which would have been ugly. Wrong is wrong!! Well done, BWI posters.
Anyway...you guys showed a lot of class, and stepped above the easy response which would have been ugly. Wrong is wrong!! Well done, BWI posters.
Willie - On your podcast yesterday, you gave the impression that you thought what Gilman did was hold Jiminez's head down when he was cutting him loose (in fact, you said to Christian Pyles a few times during the argument that "Jason Nolf does the same thing.") Have you been able to watch the match since then?
What Gilman did was beat the snot out of an inferior opponent and then humiliate him after the match was over by pressing his face into the mat. That's "100 percent innocuous"? It's not a hanging offense. But it's classless, at the very least.
Also, this sentence — "i just adamantly think that opinion and (journalistic) process is wrong and irresponsible" — doesn't mean anything, as near as I can tell. What "(journalistic) process" are you feeling adamantly about? Foley was expressing an opinion in an opinion piece. That violates your sense of fair play? Adamantly, no less?
I have no sympathy for Gilman. He has shown to be an extremely poor sport numerous times. What other wrestler have you ever heard of that actually breaks into the other teams huddle. That's mental.
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cholley -
yes, i remembered it while doing the podcast. that doesn't change my thoughts on the matter. a lot of wrestlers, whether it's the end of the period or the match or are cutting a guy lose, pressure on the back of the neck/head. it's not a big deal to me. i don't take issue with it. but it's certainly more than just Gilman. Zain played with TShirts like a cat with a dead mouse. again - doesn't bother me.
you can say 'classless' if you want, but that's a value judgement. if you think Gilman et. al. are 'classless' that's your prerogative.
regarding 'journalist' approach (and i'm friends with foley) - you're reading into it wrong. read this again: he's even taken exception with me/flo for posting that kind of thing.
what i'm saying is that he thinks these types of extracurricular moments shouldn't be highlighted. he didn't like that flo featured Rodriguez-Spencer/Ian Miller punch. i think it's important that it is highlighted. i don't think the way to go about it is to act like it didn't happen.
yes, i remembered it while doing the podcast. that doesn't change my thoughts on the matter. a lot of wrestlers, whether it's the end of the period or the match or are cutting a guy lose, pressure on the back of the neck/head. it's not a big deal to me. i don't take issue with it. but it's certainly more than just Gilman. Zain played with TShirts like a cat with a dead mouse. again - doesn't bother me.
you can say 'classless' if you want, but that's a value judgement. if you think Gilman et. al. are 'classless' that's your prerogative.
regarding 'journalist' approach (and i'm friends with foley) - you're reading into it wrong. read this again: he's even taken exception with me/flo for posting that kind of thing.
what i'm saying is that he thinks these types of extracurricular moments shouldn't be highlighted. he didn't like that flo featured Rodriguez-Spencer/Ian Miller punch. i think it's important that it is highlighted. i don't think the way to go about it is to act like it didn't happen.
Whenever someone is defending any action with phrases like "everyone does it" or "that's how it's always been", it's generally an indefensible action.
Though I will add, Gilman seems to be building a full resume of classless, punk behavior. Much like his former teammate Mike Evans.
The same cannot be said for IMar or Nolf at this point. They don't make these moves with the frequency of Gilman. Not yet at least.
I applaud Foley. Well done.
The same cannot be said for IMar or Nolf at this point. They don't make these moves with the frequency of Gilman. Not yet at least.
I applaud Foley. Well done.
Context is being seriously missed here - there's a straw that broke the camel's back message in play with young Mr. Gilman. I don't think mush gate was a big deal, but it follows triggering Flap-Gate with his body slam, the famously wierd "dying deer" interview, etc.
And I do agree with Hawkeye fans that there's a target on their guys. Nobody likes Goliath. A few more years of dominance by Cael's boys and we'll face the same thing. I hope I stay consistent and criticize our guys who do this regularly - it's cheap. Beat the guy, get your hand raised, and head to the bench to cheer your team on - essentially the corollary to scoring a TD and handing the ball to the ref.
And I do agree with Hawkeye fans that there's a target on their guys. Nobody likes Goliath. A few more years of dominance by Cael's boys and we'll face the same thing. I hope I stay consistent and criticize our guys who do this regularly - it's cheap. Beat the guy, get your hand raised, and head to the bench to cheer your team on - essentially the corollary to scoring a TD and handing the ball to the ref.
You and I are in agreement, Chickenman. I will criticize this behavior no matter who does it. However, Gilman has a full track record of this garbage and he deserves to be called out.
I disagree with the target idea on Iowa. Guys like Mike Evans and Gilman fully earned their criticism through repeated, classless behavior.
Come on man there is definitely a target on Iowa. Tell me this, what would have happened if an Iowa wrestler threw punches at Ian Miller? Swept under the rug? You tell me
When did J'Den Cox move to Iowa City? Because that was definitely not swept under any rug.
Foley missed an opportunity to elevate the discussion with detailed examples of positive role models -- wrestlers who consistently both win and display superior sportsmanship.
there is no problem pushing the head down while the clock is running. It is the clear 'shoves' or head mush after the whistle that is or should be the focus, and in my opinion, not acceptable after the whistle.
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