Foley's Friday Mailbag for 2/9/17

[ccdiver]

LOTS of Penn State stuff (almost all of the mailbag):

• Rec Hall
• the OSU dual
• the 197 dilemma

(It's funny that with all of the debate over whether a team should have wrestle-offs at this point in the season, Foley thinks Rasheed and Cassar should have ANOTHER one. )

https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/19603

 

[Tom McAndrew]

a question about mat sizes based on 2 matches in the PSU - tOSU dual, a long missive about where PSU held the tOSU dual where (surprise) Foley gets some facts wrong, one question and answer about the PSU - tOSU with 4 parts, a question and answer about Cassar/Rasheed

For those keeping track, this is week 71, and despite promises he tweeted, no response to Flo's article about Olympic reffing corruption from Foley.

Only 4 questions in the Mailbag and Mike C. with 2 of them.

You guys should have some fun with this week's Mailbag.

You can access this week's Mailbag at THIS LINK

 

[amattaro]

The Nittany Lions made a smart calculation. By keeping their ordinary dual meet location, Penn State saw increased prices as generated by higher demand.

Where did Penn State benefit from this? I had a pair of standings rooms marked $18 gate and a pair in E3L marked $20 gate. Is this an extreme markup from other duals? Secondary market saw the increase, not Penn State.

 

[nerfstate]

I dunno about you all, but I paid $15 for my lower-level South ticket. . Does this argument that PSU somehow generated more revenue by going to the smaller venue hold any water at all? Weren't all the seats paid for before the season began? Or does PSU get a cut from Stub Hub, etc? Even then, it seems to me a tenuous argument. To me, we chose not to pull out all the stops in shuffling basketball schedules, etc because we thought Rec Hall gave us a competitive advantage. It did.

 

[NoVa Lion]

The Nittany Lions made a smart calculation. By keeping their ordinary dual meet location, Penn State saw increased prices as generated by higher demand.

Where did Penn State benefit from this? I had a pair of standings rooms marked $18 gate and a pair in E3L marked $20 gate. Is this an extreme markup from other duals? Secondary market saw the increase, not Penn State.

Correct, PSU got no additional revenue from the price of tickets being higher in the secondary market. What a ridiculous statement by Foley because I'm CERTAIN that he knows that. Just making up facts to bolster his argument.

 

[Lyons212]

I dunno about you all, but I paid $15 for my lower-level South ticket. . Does this argument that PSU somehow generated more revenue by going to the smaller venue hold any water at all? Weren't all the seats paid for before the season began? Or does PSU get a cut from Stub Hub, etc? Even then, it seems to me a tenuous argument. To me, we chose not to pull out all the stops in shuffling basketball schedules, etc because we thought Rec Hall gave us a competitive advantage. It did.

Foley is an idiot, needs to do some homework.

Penn State gets nothing from the secondary market...Penn State sells the tickets for face value and what the ticket purchaser does with the ticket is up to them.

Regarding the meet in Rec Hall, the complainers need to talk to the Big Ten. The B1G is the entity that scheduled a hockey game at PSU on Friday night, basketball game at the BJC on Saturday night and a women's basketball game on Sunday afternoon and the wrestling match on Saturday. Last thing, the Big Ten Network has a huge say in the schedule as well.

 

[El-Jefe]

His call for yet another 197 wrestle-off is classic Foley -- why should a journalist ask what the current status is, or let that ignorance get in the way of a solution?

His Storr answer is what he should say more regularly: I don't know.

Will give him credit about mat size. He's right -- if you have 2 wrestlers each 6 ft tall, and action continues with one toe inbounds, then 5 ft of mat to the scorer's table is less than half of what is needed.

From a selfish standpoint: Kuhn had one foot in and Tomasello headlocked to his back. With appropriate mat clearance, that's at least NF4 with zero risk (Kuhn could drag his foot out if Nato improved position).

More mat clearance would've also helped in the Cox-Wellington incident a couple years ago.

But of course, Foley can't help himself, had to say something stupid about mats on hardwood -- as if there's a real alternative for anything but special events.

 

[El-Jefe]

Foley is an idiot, needs to do some homework.

If he did homework, he wouldn't be Foley.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

So on the hardwood, that's a big deal and foley got it right. The circle doesn't have to get bigger. The "safety portion of the mat" (i.e. out of bounds) certainly does. What if Kun had put Nato's head through that table? Those sharp breaks in the plastic/glass/whatever could have caused REAL damage. What if chasing a double and extending has a kid land on the back of his head on the hardwood? Its a REAL easy fix that makes wrestling MUCH safer for simply having each school buy new mats.

I don't think he is off-base there. I do think Foley has swings and misses, but for better or worse, he does do his best to promote the sport.

 

[NoVa Lion]

So on the hardwood, that's a big deal and foley got it right. The circle doesn't have to get bigger. The "safety portion of the mat" (i.e. out of bounds) certainly does. What if Kun had put Nato's head through that table? Those sharp breaks in the plastic/glass/whatever could have caused REAL damage. What if chasing a double and extending has a kid land on the back of his head on the hardwood? Its a REAL easy fix that makes wrestling MUCH safer for simply having each school buy new mats.

I don't think he is off-base there. I do think Foley has swings and misses, but for better or worse, he does do his best to promote the sport.

Who said Foley was off base about the mat size? In fact just the opposite in this thread so I'm not sure what the point of your post was. Not so sure I agree with the statement that he does his best to promote the sport.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Who said Foley was off base about the mat size? In fact just the opposite in this thread so I'm not sure what the point of your post was. Not so sure I agree with the statement that he does his best to promote the sport.

SOmeone said he said something stupid about wrestling on hardwood. Not so sure I agree that its stupid. =)

As far as doing his best to promote the sport, what don't yall like about him (besides some bias on politics and sometimes on teams)

 

[El-Jefe]

So on the hardwood, that's a big deal and foley got it right. The circle doesn't have to get bigger. The "safety portion of the mat" (i.e. out of bounds) certainly does. What if Kun had put Nato's head through that table? Those sharp breaks in the plastic/glass/whatever could have caused REAL damage. What if chasing a double and extending has a kid land on the back of his head on the hardwood? Its a REAL easy fix that makes wrestling MUCH safer for simply having each school buy new mats.

I don't think he is off-base there. I do think Foley has swings and misses, but for better or worse, he does do his best to promote the sport.

Agree with what you said about additional safety matting, however it's Foley. The specific surface under the mat (hardwood) is irrelevant. Depending on the venue, the subsurface could be concrete or ice.

Yes, I'm reading too much into what he said. And he has a history of crusading with imprecision.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Agree with what you said about additional safety matting, however it's Foley. The specific surface under the mat (hardwood) is irrelevant. Depending on the venue, the subsurface could be concrete or ice.

Yes, I'm reading too much into what he said. And he has a history of crusading with imprecision.

ahhh... I read it as "wrestling that ends up on hardwood" I see the disconnect now.

 

[nerfstate]

As far as doing his best to promote the sport, what don't yall like about him

I guess it depends on what sport you're talking about.

1. He takes every chance possible to take a dump on folkstyle. I wouldn't like anyone who did that, but the fact that he does it so smugly, and refuses to address glaring corruption, cheating, etc from UWW and Freestyle because it weakens his argument makes it all the worse. He's an activist with an agenda posing as some sort of all-knowing neutral journalist.
   
2. He actually thinks singlets are a reason fewer kids are competing.
3. His politics don't necessarily bother me, but his tendency to talk about "flyover states" in the US (IE every state that loves wrestling), and routinely diminish US culture in favor of his superior cosmopolitan perspective certainly doesn't win him many fans either.

 

[El-Jefe]

SOmeone said he said something stupid about wrestling on hardwood. Not so sure I agree that its stupid. =)

As far as doing his best to promote the sport, what don't yall like about him (besides some bias on politics and sometimes on teams)

The fact that as a journalist he rarely bothers to Google well established facts before opining.

And that he has a set of solutions (freestyle, ban singlets, etc.) in search of problems.

And that he's quick to point out the issues with US wrestling but rarely/never acknowledges issues with other countries (gun waving, officials punching women wrestlers, PEDs and test cheating, etc.).

In short: he's sloppy and agenda driven. The sport needs better.

 

[tikk10]

With respect to mat out of bounds area, I've made that same point for years as well. It's ridiculous that activity that takes place in some areas within the circle are consistently less likely to result in points than other areas along the same arc of the circle.

I think the reason the out of bounds area isn't simply increased owe to practical considerations, e.g., storage, shipping, cost of requiring everyone to purchase new mats to accord with the rule changes (HS rules aren't as liberal) allowing more action to occur out of bounds.

If I'm right on the reasons everyone doesn't simply make and buy bigger mats, maybe the answer is to cheat the circle smaller so that the out of bounds area accordingly enlarges.

 

[psuflyguy]

His call for yet another 197 wrestle-off is classic Foley -- why should a journalist ask what the current status is, or let that ignorance get in the way of a solution?

His Storr answer is what he should say more regularly: I don't know.

Will give him credit about mat size. He's right -- if you have 2 wrestlers each 6 ft tall, and action continues with one toe inbounds, then 5 ft of mat to the scorer's table is less than half of what is needed.

From a selfish standpoint: Kuhn had one foot in and Tomasello headlocked to his back. With appropriate mat clearance, that's at least NF4 with zero risk (Kuhn could drag his foot out if Nato improved position).

More mat clearance would've also helped in the Cox-Wellington incident a couple years ago.

But of course, Foley can't help himself, had to say something stupid about mats on hardwood -- as if there's a real alternative for anything but special events.

If I remember correctly, I think Bo tossed Nate Jackson into the score table at Bigs a couple years ago, too. I may have the venue wrong, but I think that's how it went down.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

I guess it depends on what sport you're talking about.

1. He takes every chance possible to take a dump on folkstyle. I wouldn't like anyone who did that, but the fact that he does it so smugly, and refuses to address glaring corruption, cheating, etc from UWW and Freestyle because it weakens his argument makes it all the worse. He's an activist with an agenda posing as some sort of all-knowing neutral journalist.
   
2. He actually thinks singlets are a reason fewer kids are competing.
3. His politics don't necessarily bother me, but his tendency to talk about "flyover states" in the US (IE every state that loves wrestling), and routinely diminish US culture in favor of his superior cosmopolitan perspective certainly doesn't win him many fans either.

I agree on 1.

Re: 2, its not a lie. I have twin 11 year old nephews who have been watching wrestling with me for a few years. One of them just started and is crushing it in the "I don't know what I am doing but this is fun" league. The other simply won't do it because he hates the spandex.

Last year I coached in the HOOD. Like guys on the team would walk me to my car after practice because if the corner guys knew I was with them, I would be left alone. The hardest part about recruiting new kids? The singlet. It sounds stupid, but for some kids, the uniform isn't to their tastes.

I train BJJ and I box (for fun... I don't want to get fat and out of shape, but I also have no actual desire to use this crap. Ever). I don't see why compression shorts/tops can't replace the singlet.

Re: 3, I am not a fan of the term flyover states. I was born and raised in the NYC area and yeah, we do show disdain for people who think Papa Johns is real pizza. That doesn't mean y'all are better or worse than us, just that you wouldn't know good pizza if it bit you =)

 

[PSUranger]

I think every Foley article should include the statement that it is the opinion of the author and may contain no factual data whatsoever.

 

[JBott]

The Nittany Lions made a smart calculation. By keeping their ordinary dual meet location, Penn State saw increased prices as generated by higher demand.

Where did Penn State benefit from this? I had a pair of standings rooms marked $18 gate and a pair in E3L marked $20 gate. Is this an extreme markup from other duals? Secondary market saw the increase, not Penn State.

I paid $118 each for two tickets in S1L row 12 to Ticketmaster. The season ticket holder and Ticketmaster made the extra money not PSU!

 

[El-Jefe]

Re: 3, I am not a fan of the term flyover states. I was born and raised in the NYC area and yeah, we do show disdain for people who think Papa Johns is real pizza. That doesn't mean y'all are better or worse than us, just that you wouldn't know good pizza if it bit you =)

So you're with us on Urban Meyer.

 

[El-Jefe]

If I remember correctly, I think Bo tossed Nate Jackson into the score table at Bigs a couple years ago, too. I may have the venue wrong, but I think that's how it went down.

Also hilariously but not safety related:

A few years ago, PA state finals, a wrestler got a penalty point for grabbing the edge of the mat while defending an edge shot, and lifting it off the floor.

Pretty sure it was Benton lightweight Coltin Fought, in his JR year when he finished 2nd.

 

[BOSCO2]

Correct, PSU got no additional revenue from the price of tickets being higher in the secondary market. What a ridiculous statement by Foley because I'm CERTAIN that he knows that. Just making up facts to bolster his argument.

Wow. He gave a hell of a long answer based on a totally flawed concept.

 

[RoarLions1]

Section 3. Mat Setup
Art. 1. Mat Setup. No obstruction such as tables, bleachers, competitor seating
or walls shall be placed closer than 5 feet from the edge of the competition
circle. It is recommended, whenever possible, that all obstructions be placed
not closer than 8 feet from the edge of the competition circle. When two
mats are side-by-side, there shall be at least 5 feet of matted area between the
two competition circles. (See Diagram 2 at the end of Rule 1.) For dual meets
in which the coaches' chairs are placed on the corner of the mat, the 8-foot
tournament reserved zone in Rule 1.3.3 also applies.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Section 3. Mat Setup
Art. 1. Mat Setup. No obstruction such as tables, bleachers, competitor seating
or walls shall be placed closer than 5 feet from the edge of the competition
circle. It is recommended, whenever possible, that all obstructions be placed
not closer than 8 feet from the edge of the competition circle. When two
mats are side-by-side, there shall be at least 5 feet of matted area between the
two competition circles. (See Diagram 2 at the end of Rule 1.) For dual meets
in which the coaches' chairs are placed on the corner of the mat, the 8-foot
tournament reserved zone in Rule 1.3.3 also applies.

Lets just make it 10 feet so the modern "toe in" rules can continue.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Correct, PSU got no additional revenue from the price of tickets being higher in the secondary market. What a ridiculous statement by Foley because I'm CERTAIN that he knows that. Just making up facts to bolster his argument.

Urban legends persist. Waiting for the retraction, tap, tap, tap, tap...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................sigh.

 

[nerfstate]

You gotta give it to TR. His inanity drives a good amount of voyeuristic clicks.

 

[dunkej01]

You gotta give it to TR. His inanity drives a good amount of voyeuristic clicks.

#RingADingDing

 

[Aardvark86]

The Nittany Lions made a smart calculation. By keeping their ordinary dual meet location, Penn State saw increased prices as generated by higher demand.

Where did Penn State benefit from this? I had a pair of standings rooms marked $18 gate and a pair in E3L marked $20 gate. Is this an extreme markup from other duals? Secondary market saw the increase, not Penn State.

Yeah, Foley sorta missed the boat on this one. Any scarcity revenue inured to the benefit of secondary market platforms.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Yeah, Foley sorta missed the boat on this one. Any scarcity revenue inured to the benefit of secondary market platforms.

Assuming PSU didn't withhold tickets for sale (I am thinking of crypto currency and founders tokens aren't i?)

 

[PSUaggie]

Re: 2, its not a lie. I have twin 11 year old nephews who have been watching wrestling with me for a few years. One of them just started and is crushing it in the "I don't know what I am doing but this is fun" league. The other simply won't do it because he hates the spandex.

Re: 3, I am not a fan of the term flyover states. I was born and raised in the NYC area and yeah, we do show disdain for people who think Papa Johns is real pizza. That doesn't mean y'all are better or worse than us, just that you wouldn't know good pizza if it bit you =)

Re Re 2 I kinda agree with you. If a compression shirt and shorts gets/keeps a kid in the sport then I'm all for it. I have two boys that wrestle - one loves singlets and the other hates them. Their team has been raising money this to go all in on the Foley plan next year. I'll hold final judgement until then.

Re: Re: 3 Is PA a flyover state? If so, we still know how to do pizza - Google 'Old Forge Pizza'

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Re Re 2 I kinda agree with you. If a compression shirt and shorts gets/keeps a kid in the sport then I'm all for it. I have two boys that wrestle - one loves singlets and the other hates them. Their team has been raising money this to go all in on the Foley plan next year. I'll hold final judgement until then.

Re: Re: 3 Is PA a flyover state? If so, we still know how to do pizza - Google 'Old Forge Pizza'

PA is sort of a flyover state. It certainly has some parts that are way too hick to be considered civilized. It also has Pittsburgh and Philly which are pretty great places most of the time (Philly is arguably the best food city in America. Its 1 and 1a with Chicago. I put NYC down at 4 or 5. See, not a homer).

 

[Bob_Anderson]

Assuming PSU didn't withhold tickets for sale (I am thinking of crypto currency and founders tokens aren't i?)

there's no tickets to withold. the place is sold out with season tickets.

 

[jtothemfp]

You gotta give it to TR. His inanity drives a good amount of voyeuristic clicks.

Holy hell I first read this as 'his inanity drives a good amount of voyeuristic cucks.' Oh, man.

 

[RoarLions1]

Some venues do increase prices for certain duals. I remember Rider jacking them up pretty good last year for the PSU Dual. The Hawkeyes, I believe, have a two tier ticket price, lower for what they consider lesser competition, higher for better competition (or something like that).

Sounds like Foley winged this one without facts.

 

[PSUcup1]

I guess it depends on what sport you're talking about.

1. He takes every chance possible to take a dump on folkstyle. I wouldn't like anyone who did that, but the fact that he does it so smugly, and refuses to address glaring corruption, cheating, etc from UWW and Freestyle because it weakens his argument makes it all the worse. He's an activist with an agenda posing as some sort of all-knowing neutral journalist.
   
2. He actually thinks singlets are a reason fewer kids are competing.
3. His politics don't necessarily bother me, but his tendency to talk about "flyover states" in the US (IE every state that loves wrestling), and routinely diminish US culture in favor of his superior cosmopolitan perspective certainly doesn't win him many fans either.

#2 - i can tell you there some truth to this point. My nephew didnt want to wrestle because of the singlet. he eventually came around, but thats because my brother was coaching. If he (my brother) wasnt already involved, my nephew wouldnt have participated in the sport due to singlet

 

[yekrut321]

PA is sort of a flyover state. It certainly has some parts that are way too hick to be considered civilized. It also has Pittsburgh and Philly which are pretty great places most of the time (Philly is arguably the best food city in America. Its 1 and 1a with Chicago. I put NYC down at 4 or 5. See, not a homer).

In my world, I would consider NYC/large cities a flyover, drive around, and avoid at all cost places. Give me the “way too hick” places! But to each is his own.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

In my world, I would consider NYC a flyover, drive around, and avoid at all cost place. Give me the “way too hick” places! But each to his own.

Exactly. Just because you and I have different preferences for what we value from a location doesn't mean either of us is right or wrong. I hate the "rednecks vs urbanites" divide. NYC can be overwhelming for some not all, and the open country can be dull for some not all.

I do stand by my statement of pizza though. I am going to check out the pizza place above, and if it sucks, I will certainly make sure all of you hear about my elite arrogant palate =)

 

[purescurve]

So on the hardwood, that's a big deal and foley got it right. The circle doesn't have to get bigger. The "safety portion of the mat" (i.e. out of bounds) certainly does. What if Kun had put Nato's head through that table? Those sharp breaks in the plastic/glass/whatever could have caused REAL damage. What if chasing a double and extending has a kid land on the back of his head on the hardwood? Its a REAL easy fix that makes wrestling MUCH safer for simply having each school buy new mats.

I don't think he is off-base there. I do think Foley has swings and misses, but for better or worse, he does do his best to promote the sport.

Strike 2

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Strike 2

I don't remember my strike 1?

Or what strike 2 is for.

New here... Is Foley the devil in these parts?