Foley's Friday Mailbag for 7/8/16
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
- Start date
Jordan Burroughs ought to stick to wrestling. Suggesting that wrestling lessons for police officers is the answer to a very complex problem is ****ing absurd.
He's awful quiet today. I'm sure he's busy and doesn't condone the shooting of police officers.
He's awful quiet today. I'm sure he's busy and doesn't condone the shooting of police officers.
And I'm sure the like I just gave you is as controversial as your post, but they shouldn't be.
Last time I checked, JB has the right to voice any opinion he wants to make public.
I would be very interested to hear Ed Ruth's take on these events. About two or three years ago, I saw a post somewhere that told "the rest of the story" about what happened when he got into a legal scrap in DC. Evidently, all he was doing was trying to get a bouncer at a bar to let him in to use the phone because he had lost his cell phone. But some off duty cop decided to intervene and tried to wrestle Ed to the ground by grabbing him from behind without identifying himself. Big mistake! I'm guessing Ed mopped up the floor with the guy until some other people pulled him off. The cop arrested Ed for assaulting a police officer, but I think most of the charges were dropped. The whole incident was provoked by a cop who wanted to show everyone he was a badass, not by Ed looking for trouble.
I would be very interested to hear Ed Ruth's take on these events. About two or three years ago, I saw a post somewhere that told "the rest of the story" about what happened when he got into a legal scrap in DC. Evidently, all he was doing was trying to get a bouncer at a bar to let him in to use the phone because he had lost his cell phone. But some off duty cop decided to intervene and tried to wrestle Ed to the ground by grabbing him from behind without identifying himself. Big mistake! I'm guessing Ed mopped up the floor with the guy until some other people pulled him off. The cop arrested Ed for assaulting a police officer, but I think most of the charges were dropped. The whole incident was provoked by a cop who wanted to show everyone he was a badass, not by Ed looking for trouble.
OK, so you profile a whole group of people by citing an isolated incident? Profiling? You enjoy irony don't you?
I'm anxious to see how JB's sage advice turns out when a middle age cop calls the armed suspect out of a car to "settle this like men". I thought the idiocy of rolling around on the ground voluntarily in a street situation was relegated to the Joe Rogans of the world who think they invented fighting. That blast double JB teaches might come in handy until someone's friend puts a boot to the cops temple. Or "Hey ref!! The bad guy is grabbing my gun!! Oh shit".
Half the cops I know are trained in some form of Martial Art. And usually something more practical to the situation they face. You know, armed and/or multiple assailants.
Still waiting for JB to weigh in on the Dallas incident. Their lives matter too. He wasn't getting my money anyway but I'm glad I sent it elsewhere.
I would be interested to read that post. I always assumed Ed wasn't really void of fault in that mess. Wasn't Ed given some sort of diversion program that allowed charges to be dropped if he met certain conditions agreed upon by him and the prosecution? I don't recall ever knowing the true facts but I have a hard time just saying Ed didn't do anything wrong or break any laws.
Also, you say the entire situation was provoked by some cop wanting to show everyone he was a badass. One could argue though that the entire ordeal wouldn't have happened if Ed would have just turned around and left if he wasn't given permission to enter the club. That would pretty much be my contention here. Everyone thinks they are entitled. Seems silly he was told no when wanting to use their phone but a no really should be a no. End of story... or so it could have been anyway.
I've been in hot water when I was in the right and when I was wrong, and I also have good friends who are cops, so I see both sides. Cops are people, too. Most are doing a tough job the best they can but some are tools. I'm cool with that, but let's not put every cop on a pedestal.
There were four guys at my last duty station that got out to be cops. Two are really good guys and the other two aren't. So I know at least two police officers whose judgement under pressure is questionable. When I say pressure, that's just being worried about getting their asses chewed. I'm glad I wasn't with them under real pressure.
And I shouldn't have to say this, but of course I feel that if you murder a cop then obviously you need to be brought to justice.
There were four guys at my last duty station that got out to be cops. Two are really good guys and the other two aren't. So I know at least two police officers whose judgement under pressure is questionable. When I say pressure, that's just being worried about getting their asses chewed. I'm glad I wasn't with them under real pressure.
And I shouldn't have to say this, but of course I feel that if you murder a cop then obviously you need to be brought to justice.
You are absolutely right. Just like I have a right to say that some of his statements were ridiculous. The one that got me was his comment about having to teach his son to be quiet and submissive when interacting with a police officer or risk getting shot. Uhhh..., when does being belligerent ever end in a good result when dealing with a police officer? Anyway, just a dumb thing to say. I'll chalk it up to the heat of the moment stupidity. We've all been there...
Love the straw man "He has every right to his..." uh yes, we get that. But Jordan being an Olympic Champ and black does not make him an "opinion-maker" (as Foley put it) or an expert in law enforcement. There are an estimated 1.1 million police in the U.S. In 2011, there were around 64 million contacts and an estimated 166 deaths at the hands of police. In 2011 at least, one had a .0000026 chance of being killed by a cop in an official contact. Even if used a high percentage for bad shootings, like 10%, we would have around 16 people who were straight up murdered by cops (the last part is an estimate). In 2011 by comparison, 171 cops were killed doing their job. Since there has been a lot of videos showing cops allegedly in the wrong, here is a heartbreaking one of a cop who did hesitate and try to diffuse the situation.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/ne...Police-officer-shot-dead-Vietnam-veteran.html
Here is a civil rights leader who is a cop critic undergoing use of force scenarios...props to him for having an open mind. Jordan teaching his son about compliance is something every father should do. I do it when I get pulled over. Makes it easier for both the cop and me, even though I feel that at times, they are roving tax collectors.
Love Jordan and maybe his blast double would work on the big guy in the video, but once you are the ground, you've already given up a huge tactical advantage. However, this doesn't change my opinion of him. Not a bit. It's his opinion, it's America...God bless him and bring home that gold.
A true honest debate on this and paralleling topics probably can't and won't happen because the sides are dug in so deep. And honesty is generally shrouded.
There is no right answer as much as there is no wrong answer from my pov.
It's a shame because where society is at now in my opinion suggests it will get worse before it gets better.
I can appreciate JB's thoughts, I however cant his pain nor his perception cause I haven't had the same experiences as he.
History shows violence as a result of violence perpetuates further division.
I once had guns (plural) drawn on me, with fingers on triggers. The situation seemed completely benign to me, and likely to most people, but not to them. Afterward, I sought out law enforcement to find out why. Got a real eye-opener about what the other side sees in so-called "routine" situations.
So, from my personal experience: Burroughs has an obligation as a father to teach his kids how to interact with police. If he's smart, he'll have an officer explain to his kids (when they're at the right age) as it was explained to me. I'm sure there are no shortage of former wrestlers in law enforcement who would be thrilled to do this for the champ. Plus, he has the unique opportunity to help more than just his own 2, via camps and other appearances.
The situation would improve at least a little if everyone would do this for themselves and for their kids.
Chief hit on one of the other major problems: greedy politicians at all levels using police as a revenue stream. Traffic stops are just one symptom of this. They disproportionately affect the poor, who also don't know their rights, which leads to additional penalties and physical escalations. These are rightly seen as harassment, and thus degrade the police's image and throw more logs on the victimhood fire.
So, from my personal experience: Burroughs has an obligation as a father to teach his kids how to interact with police. If he's smart, he'll have an officer explain to his kids (when they're at the right age) as it was explained to me. I'm sure there are no shortage of former wrestlers in law enforcement who would be thrilled to do this for the champ. Plus, he has the unique opportunity to help more than just his own 2, via camps and other appearances.
The situation would improve at least a little if everyone would do this for themselves and for their kids.
Chief hit on one of the other major problems: greedy politicians at all levels using police as a revenue stream. Traffic stops are just one symptom of this. They disproportionately affect the poor, who also don't know their rights, which leads to additional penalties and physical escalations. These are rightly seen as harassment, and thus degrade the police's image and throw more logs on the victimhood fire.
Your comments about guns being drawn on you reminds me of a pretty funny wrestling story although it could have ended very badly if the wrong people had been carrying the guns.
You old timers on this forum might remember Chris Black and John Stevenson who attended F&M in the early 70s. Chris was OW in the EIWA tournament in 1972 and John lost in the finals to Tom Hutchinson from Lehigh on a last second takedown. Chris hammered John Fritz pretty badly in the semis when Fritz was just a freshman.
Anyway, it was about a year after they graduated and they were coming back from some bar hopping in Philly. Nobody got lucky that night so they proceeded to do what frustrated wrestlers do best and started wrestling with each other on the sidewalk. About 30 seconds later, a patrol car came around the corner and when they saw them going at it, one of the cops jumped out and pulled his gun and pointed it at them and told them to freeze. They both started laughing and had to spend the next 15 - 20 minutes showing their IDs and convincing the officers that they were friends and just horsing around with each other.
We had some good laughs talking about that one for many years to come. Everything turned out OK that night, but in today's environment, that little incident may not have ended so well.
a lot of this stuff would all be mute if you don't break the law in the first place. We're having a hard time knowing the difference between right/wrong and legal/illegal.
Slavery was once legal. Interracial marriage was once illegal. There can be a "yuuuuge" difference between what's legal and what's right, lol
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