Franklin and FSU

[PSUFBFAN]

Actually this is not accurate. While sandy doesn’t send people out to look I sat through a meeting with sandy last year that included Franklins agent Trace Armstrong discussing facilitates around the country. They had a complete PowerPoint presentation that included pictures, square footage, cost, amenities, for several schools football buildings. I know most of you think she is an idiot but she was well prepared for the discussion and there was an open and frank discussion.

As for James leaving, I just don’t know. I think there are some things that have happened this year that may drive him away more than him running to something. I hope it doesn’t happen. I really like the guy and the kids really like him. We will go backwards for a while if he leaves.

From a football perspective, the FSU job wouldn't make sense. He would be trading Ohio State for Clemson as the intra division power, so no easy path to the conference championship as long as Dabo is in Clemson. No advantage in that aspect.

From a recruiting perspective, the FSU job certainly isn't any easier than PSU. Yes, at PSU he has to contend with Ohio State and Michigan (among others such as the occasional Alabama and Clemson). At FSU, he would have to contend with Florida, Miami, Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, etc. along with all the "bagman" activities that go on in the southeast. Definitely not easier than recruiting at PSU.

From a money and facilities perspective, I don't believe there would be any upgrade at FSU as compared to PSU - one of the reasons Jimbo left was due to lack of progress in facilities.

Finally, you are the second poster to make comments referring to possible negative issues on how he and his family may have been treated off the field. Certainly a big disappointment to hear that and I would think that is in the small percentage. Along that line of thought, I would think that the fact that the FSU community ran off their last black head coach less than two years into the job would have a huge impact whether or not Franklin would want to go into that type of "culture".

So, I would be shocked if he left for FSU. On the other hand, I won't be comfortable until USC either announces Clay Helton is returning or names Urban Meyer as their new head coach.

 

[ram2020]

I honestly don’t think it matters how a coach responds to rumors. I’ve heard some of the strongest denials from coaches who left within days. Harbaugh could be gone way before Franklin

Good point.

 

[Cpeplion]

Completely agree about that, but I do think our fanbase in general has more negativity and misery than many others. The death threats thing is the extreme minority and can happen anywhere. But the endless criticism of the coaching staff even when we win games isn't as common, and other schools aren't dealing with fans that refuse to let go of a prior coaches ideology as well. I honestly think it's a regional thing that I didn't noticed until I moved away. People in PA just seem to be more negative in general than many other places that I've been.

The players were all making that stuff up so when they transfer to FSU the NCAA will grant them waivers for immediate eligibility...I hear that works like a charm.

 

[OaktonDave]

Yet basically that is what happened at FSU when Fisher left....but FSU is attractive to Franklin who is a "successful, highly sought after coach." hmmmmmm

Fisher FSU left because he has the choice between a job were the facilities were sub-par and fans were calling for his head because 10-3 seasons weren't good enough and a job that had great facilities and offered a major salary increase. Franklin leaving for FSU basically says that job with sub-standard facilities, demanding fans, and iffy support is a better gig than PSU. Maybe it's me, but I would not see that as reflecting well on the PSU job. I also wouldn't assume it would be anything but a red flag for potential candidates. Such concerns are often offset with a very large salary, large salaries for assistants, and promises of facility upgrades. Yeah, I have no doubt that the president, AD, and BOT can be trusted with all that...

As for whether or not it has a truly major impact on my life, it doesn't. On the other hand this is a PSU football message board, and well, if it didn't matter on some level, neither of us would be here.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Yes....other people aren't as fickle and dumb as some of our fans. They see the big picture and realize he would turn them around as well. Hopefully PSU is locking things up long term which is hopefully going on behind the scenes. Even though we have dumb fans....most know we have a great HC and want him here for a while.

Franklin’s frustrated but criticism and lack of appreciation, deference and support. No better way to turn that around than the threat of loss.

Simple psychology: girls, your boyfriend is taking you for granted. Subtly flirt with someone and make him feel insecure. Voila!

 

[cvilleelkscoach]

I have no inside info but given that in recent weeks Franklin has made comments about our fans to the media that might be what he's talking about. I can't believe the amount of heat Franklin seems to get from our fans while the team is sitting at 9-1, and is in the midst of a fantastic 3-4 year run. I can't help but think that if it were someone from the Paterno coaching tree the fans would back off a bit, but maybe I'm reading into things too much. Some people still haven't moved on. Also the situations with Sutherland and Clifford getting nasty and completely unacceptable crap from some so-called "fans" might also be weighing on him. Coaches need to have thick skin though, and not worry about fan reactions. Franklin typically is great with the media but him bringing up this stuff recently is a possible sign that he's getting tired of it. I can't say that I blame him, I am tired of hearing it too.

Exactly. Additionally, he will be stuck dealing with the suit from the former team doc. All this crap starts to pile up and can begin to make other places look better.

 

[dbsteel]

If he leaves, he leaves. You can't worry about this crap anymore. If he leaves, we will have the pick of the litter as a replacement. There are always going to be rumors, and while these guys say one thing, they are pretty much full of it or they wouldn't be where they are.

I could see him leaving for USC before FSU though. FSU is a downgrade, other than the built in talent pool in FLA. He's a PA guy, but maybe those schools and cities are a better fit for his family.

 

[dbsteel]

I like Franklin and have often defended him on this board. That said, I don't know if he will stay or go at season's end, but I have a feeling he will not be here in 5 years. He wants to be the 1st black coach to win a National Championship and, despite his recruiting success, I don't think he can do that at Penn State. The BigTen East is not an easy path to the Final Four. We'll see.

Totally agree. He knows he's going to have a hard time getting through the Ohio State/Michigan gauntlet every year. FSU and USC would be an easier path.

I don't think guys would jump as much if they went to an 8 or 16 team playoff.

 

[Nitt1300]

From a football perspective, the FSU job wouldn't make sense. He would be trading Ohio State for Clemson as the intra division power, so no easy path to the conference championship as long as Dabo is in Clemson. No advantage in that aspect.

From a recruiting perspective, the FSU job certainly isn't any easier than PSU. Yes, at PSU he has to contend with Ohio State and Michigan (among others such as the occasional Alabama and Clemson). At FSU, he would have to contend with Florida, Miami, Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, etc. along with all the "bagman" activities that go on in the southeast. Definitely not easier than recruiting at PSU.

From a money and facilities perspective, I don't believe there would be any upgrade at FSU as compared to PSU - one of the reasons Jimbo left was due to lack of progress in facilities.

Finally, you are the second poster to make comments referring to possible negative issues on how he and his family may have been treated off the field. Certainly a big disappointment to hear that and I would think that is in the small percentage. Along that line of thought, I would think that the fact that the FSU community ran off their last black head coach less than two years into the job would have a huge impact whether or not Franklin would want to go into that type of "culture".

So, I would be shocked if he left for FSU. On the other hand, I won't be comfortable until USC either announces Clay Helton is returning or names Urban Meyer as their new head coach.

you make fair points, but central PA isn't exactly the center of enlightenment either

 

[fairgambit]

Totally agree. He knows he's going to have a hard time getting through the Ohio State/Michigan gauntlet every year. FSU and USC would be an easier path.

I don't think guys would jump as much if they went to an 8 or 16 team playoff.

A good point.

 

[Ughhh]

you make fair points, but central PA isn't exactly the center of enlightenment either

Good God you are a pretentious ass

 

[BudatPSU]

I read this thread and all I could think of is "The sky is falling, the sky is falling." You know facts really outweigh suppositions. Why not wait until there is some factual data until you worry about it? Then deal with it.

But then I am old and I do not worry about other people's opinions about almost everything.

 

[Sooner Lion]

"Noles247 confirmed on Wednesday that representatives for FSU and Penn State coach James Franklin have talked at this point in the process. Franklin was believed to be a candidate, and now we know he is a target that FSU has vetted."

This is 100% about Franklin getting what he believes he needs to compete w/ tOSU, Alabama, Clemson, etc. Unfortunately, it's the way the game is played nowadays.

Things like this enable me to reflect on how lucky we were to have Joe Paterno leading the change for all those years.

 

[Nitt1300]

Good God you are a pretentious ass

and you are exactly the kind of asshole I was talking about- f you and the horse you rode in on

 

[Ughhh]

Exactly. Additionally, he will be stuck dealing with the suit from the former team doc. All this crap starts to pile up and can begin to make other places look better.

I'm 100% expecting that Rhule is our coach next year, 2021 at the latest.

 

[fairgambit]

I read this thread and all I could think of is "The sky is falling, the sky is falling." You know facts really outweigh suppositions. Why not wait until there is some factual data until you worry about it? Then deal with it.

But then I am old and I do not worry about other people's opinions about almost everything.

What fun would that be?

 

[Ughhh]

and you are exactly the kind of asshole I was talking about- f you and the horse you rode in on

Lol yeah cuz I'm the one whose horse is shitting all over my own small-town backyard.

You realize the rich, affluent city folk are never gonna accept you, no matter how much self-loathing you indulge in, right? You don't have the pedigree

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Franklin’s frustrated but criticism and lack of appreciation, deference and support. No better way to turn that around than the threat of loss.

Simple psychology: girls, your boyfriend is taking you for granted. Subtly flirt with someone and make him feel insecure. Voila!

Or he is telling the school and AD, make it happen now. Promises are great, but get it going now.

 

[BudatPSU]

What fun would that be?

I guess you have a point.

 

[psu00]

I have no inside info but given that in recent weeks Franklin has made comments about our fans to the media that might be what he's talking about. I can't believe the amount of heat Franklin seems to get from our fans while the team is sitting at 9-1, and is in the midst of a fantastic 3-4 year run. I can't help but think that if it were someone from the Paterno coaching tree the fans would back off a bit, but maybe I'm reading into things too much. Some people still haven't moved on. Also the situations with Sutherland and Clifford getting nasty and completely unacceptable crap from some so-called "fans" might also be weighing on him. Coaches need to have thick skin though, and not worry about fan reactions. Franklin typically is great with the media but him bringing up this stuff recently is a possible sign that he's getting tired of it. I can't say that I blame him, I am tired of hearing it too.

Respectfully, there are idiots everywhere. If anyone thinks this fan base is bad or too demanding they have a really rude awakening waiting when they get to USC, FSU, OSU, Texas, or any SEC team not named Vanderbilt.

 

[Storm at Sea]

Respectfully, there are idiots everywhere. If anyone thinks this fan base is bad or too demanding they have a really rude awakening waiting when they get to USC, FSU, OSU, Texas, or any SEC team not named Vanderbilt.

It's not idiotic when an incompetent coaching staff does less with more. We lost to Minny. Rationalize that all you want. Rhule is a better fit.

 

[AWS1022]

It's not idiotic when an incompetent coaching staff does less with more. We lost to Minny. Rationalize that all you want. Rhule is a better fit.

Wow, so let’s get someone who will bring in less. Perfect.

 

[AWS1022]

You think a reporter made this story up? You don't think there's been contact? If Franklin's talking to Florida State or USC, he's looking for exit opportunities. This isn't Alabama.

Franklin could put this all to bed quickly with a statement stronger than, "I don't anticipate things changing anytime soon"

Unless he’s leveraging this to get more resources...pretty simple really.

 

[Ughhh]

Unless he’s leveraging this to get more resources...pretty simple really.

"Sandy, give me what FSU is offering or I'm leaving"

"Ok, the Lasch building is now shared by all sports programs and we are tearing down Holuba"

 

[LaJolla Lion]

It's not idiotic when an incompetent coaching staff does less with more. We lost to Minny. Rationalize that all you want. Rhule is a better fit.

No he is not. Rhule just blew a 25 point lead at home. I get it, you need your safe Joe guy boomer, we get it.

 

[Cpeplion]

Fisher FSU left because he has the choice between a job were the facilities were sub-par and fans were calling for his head because 10-3 seasons weren't good enough and a job that had great facilities and offered a major salary increase. Franklin leaving for FSU basically says that job with sub-standard facilities, demanding fans, and iffy support is a better gig than PSU. Maybe it's me, but I would not see that as reflecting well on the PSU job. I also wouldn't assume it would be anything but a red flag for potential candidates. Such concerns are often offset with a very large salary, large salaries for assistants, and promises of facility upgrades. Yeah, I have no doubt that the president, AD, and BOT can be trusted with all that...

As for whether or not it has a truly major impact on my life, it doesn't. On the other hand this is a PSU football message board, and well, if it didn't matter on some level, neither of us would be here.

but you're basically saying that PSU would look bad for Franklin leaving PSU for FSU because FSU is such a dumpsterfire and no good coach would want to come to PSU...yet Fisher ditched FSU in the same manner making them look just as bad but a hot comodity coach like Franklin does want to go there. So FSU can overcome that image but PSU can't.

 

[ram2020]

It's pretty clearly time, or past time really, for the Penn State administration to decide whether or not they want to be one of the top most college football programs in the country. I've mentioned it as it relates to our fans and Franklin too. You either decide to throw tons of money at this thing and commit in every imaginable way to being the BEST, not merely profitable and great, but the BEST, or you let guys with the ambition of Franklin simply walk. This is years in the making, back to Paterno and O'Brien really. Paterno became somewhat apathetic to being the best, I don't think anyone would argue that, his legacy was intact, the program was a cash cow, his players were graduating and representing the University moderately well, etc. Franklin however, does not have his legacy built yet. He does not have championships, he is not universally revered. He wants to be the first AA coach to win a national title, what a tremendous legacy that would be. He has incredible ambition and I am not sure he can reach his goals unless he has the full commitment of the Administration and fans. Just like O'Brien before him, the administration will slow play what the coach wants until he threatens to leave, then they will either pony up or not, but it is time to stop kicking the can down the road. This is going to continue to spring up every year unless they:

1. Pay up all the way with the biggest boys and fully commit to everything a coach could want(The Clemson/Alabamas/OSU's of the world). It also means big buyouts to protect your investment(Franklin's buyout is embarrassingly small and screams "2nd rate program." )
2. They just decide being a top 25 program and making a ton of cash is good enough, then you go get a Matt Campbell and pay him 4$ million and let him leave when he hits it big. Or you rip the bandaid off entirely and hire Pry and let him know you want to win, but 9-10 wins are fine.

Decision time is upon us in this football climate whether we like it or not. As one poster said earlier this morning, in this college football landscape, you either have the gas peddle to the floor or you are going backwards.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I'm 100% expecting that Rhule is our coach next year, 2021 at the latest.

I like Rhule, but wouldn't trade Franklin for him. Rhule hasn't shown that he can recruit at Baylor (noting when Baylor was recruiting well in the early 00's, they were likely cheating a bunch) and I don't think he moves the needle much for recruits (though many PSU fans might be happy). You need someone to go up against OSU for nearly every top recruit in our footprint. I'd aim for someone like Greg Roman.

 

[ram2020]

How much will it cost to guarantee a win over OSU on Saturday?

Honestly......as much as they have paid and then-some.

 

[Nitt1300]

It's pretty clearly time, or past time really, for the Penn State administration to decide whether or not they want to be one of the top most college football programs in the country. I've mentioned it as it relates to our fans and Franklin too. You either decide to throw tons of money at this thing and commit in every imaginable way to being the BEST, not merely profitable and great, but the BEST, or you let guys with the ambition of Franklin simply walk. This is years in the making, back to Paterno and O'Brien really. Paterno became somewhat apathetic to being the best, I don't think anyone would argue that, his legacy was in tact, the program was a cash cow, his players were graduating and representing the University moderately well, etc. Franklin however, does not have his legacy built yet. He does not have championships, he is not universally revered. He wants to be the first AA coach to win a national title, what a tremendous legacy that would be. He has incredible ambition and I am not sure he can reach his goals unless he has the full commitment of the Administration and fans. Just like O'Brien before him, the administration will slow play what the coach wants until he threatens to leave, then they will either pony up or not, but it is time to stop kicking the can down the road. This is going to continue to spring up every year unless they:

1. Pay up all the way with the biggest boys and fully commit to everything a coach could want(The Clemson/Alabamas/OSU's of the world)
2. They just decide being a top 25 program and making a ton of cash is good enough, then you go get a Matt Campbell and pay him 4$ million and let him leave when he hits it big. Or you rip the bandaid off entirely and hire Pry and let him know you want to win, but 9-10 wins are fine.

Decision time is upon us in this football climate whether we like it or not. As one poster said earlier this morning, in this college football landscape, you either have the gas peddle to the floor or you are going backwards.

I wish I could disagree, but I can't.

 

[AWS1022]

"Sandy, give me what FSU is offering or I'm leaving"

"Ok, the Lasch building is now shared by all sports programs and we are tearing down Holuba"

Or give my assistants more money. He’s not going to FSU.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I like Rhule, but wouldn't trade Franklin for him. Rhule hasn't shown that he can recruit at Baylor (noting when Baylor was recruiting well in the early 00's, they were likely cheating a bunch) and I don't think he moves the needle much for recruits (though many PSU fans might be happy). You need someone to go up against OSU for nearly every top recruit in our footprint. I'd aim for someone like Greg Roman.

The PSU fans that want him, wanted Golden before that. They somehow think a Paterno guy has to be in charge. Yeah I hate being ranked and playing tOSU late in the year for the Division title. Woe is PSU, he’s not a Joe guy. These people that wan Franklin gone often have other social motives, but cannot come out and say it.

 

[nittany119]

Rhule will be PSU's first call if Franklin leaves. And to be honest he is probably a better overall coach and the chances of him being a lifer are much higher than Franklin. Psu alums will be happy to have a Paterno disciple at the helm. Hell if I am psu I don't think I even get into a bidding war for Franklin

I worry if Rhule will be able to recruit as well as Franklin does. If he can, I wouldn't hesitate to hire him. It's probably his dream job. Hell, I've been trying to get back to PSU since 1980, but for non football items.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

The PSU fans that want him, wanted Golden before that. They somehow think a Paterno guy has to be in charge. Yeah I hate being ranked and playing tOSU late in the year for the Division title. Woe is PSU, he’s not a Joe guy. These people that wan Franklin gone often have other social motives, but cannot come out and say it.

Like others have said, need to remove any doubt Franklin might have about his future and get it to where his name isn't mentioned anymore. Meyer's name never came up when he was at OSU. Saban's might come up as a pipe dream for a super desperate blue blood (like Texas).

 

[Ughhh]

I like Rhule, but wouldn't trade Franklin for him. Rhule hasn't shown that he can recruit at Baylor (noting when Baylor was recruiting well in the early 00's, they were likely cheating a bunch) and I don't think he moves the needle much for recruits (though many PSU fans might be happy). You need someone to go up against OSU for nearly every top recruit in our footprint. I'd aim for someone like Greg Roman.

Harbaugh's struggles scare me off from the NFL route, ideas flow from the lower levels up in football so I think it's tough to go down a level.

I agree that Rhule is unproven, but assuming Franklin leaves he's the best realistic option there is, and he could very well knock it out of the park.

He also presumably would want to be at PSU which would be an improvement from where we're at right now

 

[Ughhh]

The PSU fans that want him, wanted Golden before that. They somehow think a Paterno guy has to be in charge. Yeah I hate being ranked and playing tOSU late in the year for the Division title. Woe is PSU, he’s not a Joe guy. These people that wan Franklin gone often have other social motives, but cannot come out and say it.

Yup everyone who disagrees with you is David Duke, you're just sooooo woke. Now go show us how it's done and pay out your share of reparations

 

[Nitt1300]

How much?

$5? If so, I'll chip in.

Will that do it? If not, how much?

think defense budget of a medium sized European country

 

[OaktonDave]

but you're basically saying that PSU would look bad for Franklin leaving PSU for FSU because FSU is such a dumpsterfire and no good coach would want to come to PSU...yet Fisher ditched FSU in the same manner making them look just as bad but a hot comodity coach like Franklin does want to go there. So FSU can overcome that image but PSU can't.

I didn't say "couldn't", in fact I listed some of the things that I think would be necessary to overcome it. I'm not super confident in PSU's leadership to do it nor am I certain PSU fans and alumni would believe that it was necessary until a few failed attempts, but there's a path. It's like getting insurance when your driving record isn't so great. It can be done, but you'll have to pay a bit more for it and some insurers are going to pass. You seem to believe that there would be no impact and finding a quality coach that would do as well or better would be easy to find because PSU is a such a great job. There is a fairly long list of programs who believed that and found out to the contrary.

 

[AWS1022]

He also presumably would want to be at PSU which would be an improvement from where we're at right now

Why do you keep posting stupid sh!t like this? Where has Franklin ever said he doesn’t want to be at PSU?

 

[psu00]

It's not idiotic when an incompetent coaching staff does less with more. We lost to Minny. Rationalize that all you want. Rhule is a better fit.

I’m not rationalizing anything. I’ve been critical of Franklin and the coaching staff when I thought it was deserved.

The idiots I was referring to are the morons who sent death threats. Those are so few but they get the headlines just like the OSU fans stalking Herbstreit’s wife in the grocery store because he was a “fake buckeye”. Those type idiots are everywhere.