Generic recruiting and transfer discussion

[GogglesPaizano]

With no coaches show today we have more downtime.

Two relevant topics teed up for commentary:

1). Transfers - and why more 'Elite' transfer kids choose not to come here (no slight intened to our current tranfer)?

Is it the expense and with the 'plan' that confounded Piles, do we simply not have enough scholarship money to attract the top kids in play now and then even though we apparently showed an interest? Sure we secured Cortez, Kuhn, Conel and others, but have fallen short with top 4 talent like Desanto (not top 4 at the time but...) McKenna, Eireman, Gross (his choice was obvious), Echemendia (not really a transfer but...), maybe Kirk?

In contrast Iowa recruits well but a cut below us yet lands more big name transfers. tOSU as well.

Intuitively, I would think that seasoned vets who want to be the best should be beating down our door independent of available scholy money, yet this is clearly not the case - why?

2). Current recruiting status:. Any new faces at the last football game? I am intrigued by:

2020 kids: Jesse Vasquez - complete silence, and to my knowledge little written about where he might be leaning. Of course Kirk.

2021 kids: love the thought of Richie Figs for a career 125. Stevo will be there and rumored a lion lean for years but both need to gain some weight. Icing on the cake would be any of; Van Ness, Herra-Rondon or Facundo. I suspect Manville is a strong lean as well.

Is anyone hearing any banter about these kids, any sitings?

A future low end with Figs > Howard > RBY > Vasques > Bartlett > M Lee would be really solid, coupled with our current stable of highend thoroughbreds plus maybe Facundo or Kirk, wins us 4+ more in a row. (yes, I have a plan)

 

[Dogwelder]

... 2020 kids: Jesse Vasquez - complete silence, and to my knowledge little written about where he might be leaning ...

I don’t know anything, but in the past, when we hear nothing about a kid’s plans, the kid sometimes ends up at juco or D2 due to grades. I wonder how Vasquez’s grades are.

 

[nerfstate]

I don’t know anything, but in the past, when we hear nothing about a kid’s plans, the kid sometimes ends up at judo or D2 due to grades. I wonder how Vasquez’s grades are.

What’s the matter with judo?

 

[WeAreWrestling]

Herrera-Rondon committed to Oklahoma in the last week. Would love to see Van Ness at PSU

 

[Dogwelder]

What’s the matter with judo?

Sabotaged by Spellcheck! Thanks for the heads up. I’ll fix it.

 

[slushhead]

I don't know the answers, and that has me very concerned.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

I don't know the answers, and that has me very concerned.

I'm going to pay for that one for a while.

 

[slushhead]

I'm going to pay for that one for a while.

Maybe not. You could always punt.

 

[jbkeller72]

Cortez was a pretty big-time transfer. That's all i got

 

[dicemen99]

With no coaches show today we have more downtime.

Two relevant topics teed up for commentary:

1). Transfers - and why more 'Elite' transfer kids choose not to come here (no slight intened to our current tranfer)?

Is it the expense and with the 'plan' that confounded Piles, do we simply not have enough scholarship money to attract the top kids in play now and then even though we apparently showed an interest? Sure we secured Cortez, Kuhn, Conel and others, but have fallen short with top 4 talent like Desanto (not top 4 at the time but...) McKenna, Eireman, Gross (his choice was obvious), Echemendia (not really a transfer but...), maybe Kirk?

In contrast Iowa recruits well but a cut below us yet lands more big name transfers. tOSU as well.

Intuitively, I would think that seasoned vets who want to be the best should be beating down our door independent of available scholy money, yet this is clearly not the case - why?

2). Current recruiting status:. Any new faces at the last football game? I am intrigued by:

2020 kids: Jesse Vasquez - complete silence, and to my knowledge little written about where he might be leaning. Of course Kirk.

2021 kids: love the thought of Richie Figs for a career 125. Stevo will be there and rumored a lion lean for years but both need to gain some weight. Icing on the cake would be any of; Van Ness, Herra-Rondon or Facundo. I suspect Manville is a strong lean as well.

Is anyone hearing any banter about these kids, any sitings?

A future low end with Figs > Howard > RBY > Vasques > Bartlett > M Lee would be really solid, coupled with our current stable of highend thoroughbreds plus maybe Facundo or Kirk, wins us 4+ more in a row. (yes, I have a plan)

Goggles, I think you hang out on the HR too much.

Why do we need any transfers? We are the 4x defending champs that currently has a redshirt class of Aaron Brooks, Michael Beard, Carter Starocci, Joe Lee, and Seth Nevills. Next year we have Bartlett and Howard coming in.

I guess if Vasquez wants to join the party, great, but if not, no biggie. Facundo would be great as well but is he an upgrade over the above??? Doubtful.

Nobody has close to that amount of young talent on the horizon. Not even Cornell. The HR is doing backflips when they land 1 or 2 of these types of guys. We have no need to follow their transfer blue print.

Yeah, we lost a dual to ASU when we had to forfeit a weight and had two starters out. We're not ranked #1 - just like about 7 of the last seasons. I'm content to see where we are in March. I'm pretty confident it will be be a pretty good place. We have a lot of horses in the stable.

 

[Dogwelder]

Goggles, I think you hang out on the HR too much.

Why do we need any transfers? We are the 4x defending champs that currently has a redshirt class of Aaron Brooks, Michael Beard, Carter Starocci, Joe Lee, and Seth Nevills. Next year we have Bartlett and Howard coming in ...

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Goggles, I think you hang out on the HR too much.

Why do we need any transfers? We are the 4x defending champs that currently has a redshirt class of Aaron Brooks, Michael Beard, Carter Starocci, Joe Lee, and Seth Nevills. Next year we have Bartlett and Howard coming in.

I guess if Vasquez wants to join the party, great, but if not, no biggie. Facundo would be great as well but is he an upgrade over the above??? Doubtful.

Nobody has close to that amount of young talent on the horizon. Not even Cornell. The HR is doing backflips when they land 1 or 2 of these types of guys. We have no need to follow their transfer blue print.

Yeah, we lost a dual to ASU when we had to forfeit a weight and had two starters out. We're not ranked #1 - just like about 7 of the last seasons. I'm content to see where we are in March. I'm pretty confident it will be be a pretty good place. We have a lot of horses in the stable.

Another critique. The question was simply "why" top transfers seem not attracted to our program, not that we (Cael) needs to augment his 'plan' with outside opportunistic talent. The Lion's seem to have an admirable tradition not unlike the Steelers of building through the draft rather than to buy free agents or via trades.

That said we did make a play for Mackenna, Desanto maybe even Echemendia but landed none.

Yes, and I was here when 3 years ago OSU was going to have 10 AAs and beat us. Very unfortunate we had to set everyone straight at the dual championship and lose Suriano for good in the process, or the next two years when tOSU was favored. I am total on board that if we go into Bigs and Nationals at full strength and healthy we will take this year as well.

 

[Foreverinbluejeans57]

Goggles, I think you hang out on the HR too much.

Why do we need any transfers? We are the 4x defending champs that currently has a redshirt class of Aaron Brooks, Michael Beard, Carter Starocci, Joe Lee, and Seth Nevills. Next year we have Bartlett and Howard coming in.

I guess if Vasquez wants to join the party, great, but if not, no biggie. Facundo would be great as well but is he an upgrade over the above??? Doubtful.

Nobody has close to that amount of young talent on the horizon. Not even Cornell. The HR is doing backflips when they land 1 or 2 of these types of guys. We have no need to follow their transfer blue print.

Yeah, we lost a dual to ASU when we had to forfeit a weight and had two starters out. We're not ranked #1 - just like about 7 of the last seasons. I'm content to see where we are in March. I'm pretty confident it will be be a pretty good place. We have a lot of horses in the stable.

Uhhh I think Facundo ends up cracking any college lineup when the time comes

 

[El-Jefe]

Transfers: subtract Cortez and Kuhn; add Gwiiazdowski, Tsirtsis, Suriano, Lugo, Micic, Schram, Millhof, Isaiah White, and Bulk Job.

That might be the complete list of transfers in the past 5 or so years, who made the podium before or after moving. (I may have missed a couple but let's not quibble.)

We got one of them and were in on at least 2 more (Micic and McKenna). A 4th (DeSamto) contacted PSU as well.

Of those remaining: we lost one (Cruiseliner Nick) and 2 more followed their college coaches (Gwiz and Gross).

4 of them were risky -- 2 for misconduct (Gross and DeSanto booted) and 2 for academics (White did not qualify for Ohio State admissions put of HS; Tsirtsis became academically ineligible at NW, also would've been stuck behind Zain).

Point being: these are infrequent, not something that should be a major focus. Still, Cael has been involved when he thinks ot makes sense. If we're concerned about the rest, we're being obsessive.

 

[El-Jefe]

Uhhh I think Facundo ends up cracking any college lineup when the time comes

Over Starocci or Brooks? Maybe -- or maybe the time could be a long time coming.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Another critique. The question was simply "why" top transfers seem not attracted to our program, not that we (Cael) needs to augment his 'plan' with outside opportunistic talent. The Lion's seem to have an admirable tradition not unlike the Steelers of building through the draft rather than to buy free agents or via trades.

That said we did make a play for Mackenna, Desanto maybe even Echemendia but landed none.

Yes, and I was here when 3 years ago OSU was going to have 10 AAs and beat us. Very unfortunate we had to set everyone straight at the dual championship and lose Suriano for good in the process, or the next two years when tOSU was favored. I am total on board that if we go into Bigs and Nationals at full strength and healthy we will take this year as well.

Do we really know that top transfers aren't attracted to PSU? Perhaps the slush fund doesn't extend as far as donhawkeye and the tin foil hat clan claims.

 

[El-Jefe]

2020 kids: Jesse Vasquez - complete silence, and to my knowledge little written about where he might be leaning. Of course Kirk.

Vazquez posted his school list months ago and we weren't on it. NLI Day has come and gone. If he changed his mind and wanted PSU, he would've done so by now.

Past time to let him go.

EDIT: Vazquez's school list: Arizona State, Cornell, Iowa, Michigan, Ohio State

 

[El-Jefe]

Do we really know that top transfers aren't attracted to PSU? Perhaps the slush fund doesn't extend as far as donhawkeye and the tin foil hat clan claims.

Transferred elsewhere =/= Disinterested in PSU.

Also, sometimes disinterest or other choice is for a good reason -- such as not wanting to sit after moving.

IDK if Tsirtsis were ever interested in PSU when he had to leave NW -- but we were literally the only program in the country that had no lineup spot, in either of 2 years, for a returning national champ

It's good to be the king.

 

[Dogwelder]

Cortez was a pretty big-time transfer. That's all i got

Conel was pretty big-time.

 

[McScoreley]

Cael wants to know what do you think, do you have a plan or something?

 

[dicemen99]

Uhhh I think Facundo ends up cracking any college lineup when the time comes

Facundo looks to project at Starocci or Brooks weight, correct or am I off?

If so, that remains to be seen.

EDIT - missed Jefe's post above which basically said the same thing.

 

[Foreverinbluejeans57]

Facundo looks to project at Starocci or Brooks weight, correct or am I off?

If so, that remains to be seen.

EDIT - missed Jefe's post above which basically said the same thing.

True, though he is a 65 now and would have to hold that and wrestle of Lee. Also think him and starocci would be very close

 

[Foreverinbluejeans57]

True, though he is a 65 now and would have to hold that and wrestle of Lee. Also think him and starocci would be very close

Just looked he’s 170 this season, with a big frame so 65 might be a lot to ask. But penn state definitely wants him, and he’s that much of a talent to bring into a crowed lineup

 

[pointingdogsrule]

Goggles, I think you hang out on the HR too much.

Why do we need any transfers? We are the 4x defending champs that currently has a redshirt class of Aaron Brooks, Michael Beard, Carter Starocci, Joe Lee, and Seth Nevills. Next year we have Bartlett and Howard coming in.

I guess if Vasquez wants to join the party, great, but if not, no biggie. Facundo would be great as well but is he an upgrade over the above??? Doubtful.

Nobody has close to that amount of young talent on the horizon. Not even Cornell. The HR is doing backflips when they land 1 or 2 of these types of guys. We have no need to follow their transfer blue print.

Yeah, we lost a dual to ASU when we had to forfeit a weight and had two starters out. We're not ranked #1 - just like about 7 of the last seasons. I'm content to see where we are in March. I'm pretty confident it will be be a pretty good place. We have a lot of horses in the stable.

Love this guy's optimistic style

 

[El-Jefe]

Had a minute, so I decided to look thru the brackets. When looking at the list this way, very very few risk-free upgrades who were truly available and not publicly interested in PSU.

Below are all transfers who competed since 2016 and placed at any point in their careers. (It’s possible I missed someone, but a lot less likely after pouring thru brackets!) Why 2016? That is the first year any current seniors (non-6th year) would’ve been on campus. The 2016 seniors would’ve been on campus for the 2011 season, so that’s effectively a 10-year window.

Grouping by type of transfer:

Transferred to/from PSU:
Suriano – 2, 1
Conel - 3

Considered PSU during transfer:
McKenna – 3, 3, 2
Micic – 3, 2, 3
DeSanto – 5 (also Kicked Off Team)

Followed coach to new school:
Gwiazdowski – 8, 1, 1, 2
Gross – 2, 1 (for 2nd transfer to Wisconsin; also listed under Kicked Off Team)

Moved home (homesick, family illness, etc.):
Meredith – 2, 4, 2
Miklus – 6, 8, 6 – lost to Rasheed at NCAAs

Kicked off team or academic issues:
Gross – 2, 1 (booted from Iowa; also listed under Followed Coach)
Tsirtsis – 1, 7 – at Zain’s weight
Marsteller – 4, 3 – at Cenzo’s weight
DeSanto – 5 (also considered PSU)
Downey – 5 - at Nickal's weight
I. White – 5 – at Cenzo’s weight
Early – 8 – at Nolf’s weight

DNP after transfer:
Millhof – 7
S. Russell – 7
J. Oliver – 7 – at Zain’s weight
Schram – 8
G. Martinez – 8 – at Zain’s weight; lost starting job at OKST
S. Perry – 8 – program terminated; at Nick Lee’s weight

Everyone else:
D. White – 2 – lost to Cassar at NCAAs
Moisey – 2, 7 - DNP as a senior at Nebraska
Eierman – 5, 4, 3
Geer – 7 – at Rasheed's weight
Lugo – 8 - lost to Berge at B10s
Skatzka – 8 – at Hall’s weight

 

[El-Jefe]

Regarding 149 -- yes, would love to have Van Ness in 2021. Getting him definitely a hard pull with his father being a Perennial Top Ten alum. If he goes elsewhere, the 2022 options are hardly consolation prizes: Crookham, Bouzakis, Mendez.

This is a good time to remind ourselves of how many national titles won despite Cael's inability to land such interested high school recruits as Snyder, Gwiazdowski, Lee, Valencia, Ashnault, Martin, Fix, Micic, Bo Jordan, Hidlay, Lizak, Pletcher, Marsteller, etc.

It's as if missing on any one guy hasn't really hurt us, or something.

 

[Lyons212]

Regarding 149 -- yes, would love to have Van Ness in 2021. Getting him definitely a hard pull with his father being a Perennial Top Ten alum. If he goes elsewhere, the 2022 options are hardly consolation prizes: Crookham, Bouzakis, Mendez.

This is a good time to remind ourselves of how many national titles won despite Cael's inability to land such interested high school recruits as Snyder, Gwiazdowski, Lee, Valencia, Ashnault, Martin, Fix, Micic, Bo Jordan, Hidlay, Lizak, Pletcher, Marsteller, etc.

It's as if missing on any one guy hasn't really hurt us, or something.

There is a real good change Snyder comes to PSU if he believed he was a heavy weight which is what Cael recruited him as.

 

[seeyajohn]

Regarding 149 -- yes, would love to have Van Ness in 2021. Getting him definitely a hard pull with his father being a Perennial Top Ten alum. If he goes elsewhere, the 2022 options are hardly consolation prizes: Crookham, Bouzakis, Mendez.

This is a good time to remind ourselves of how many national titles won despite Cael's inability to land such interested high school recruits as Snyder, Gwiazdowski, Lee, Valencia, Ashnault, Martin, Fix, Micic, Bo Jordan, Hidlay, Lizak, Pletcher, Marsteller, etc.

It's as if missing on any one guy hasn't really hurt us, or something.

I think the miss on Spencer Lee is proving highly significant. We didn't get a transcendent talent and Iowa got the wrestler who turned their program around.

 

[El-Jefe]

There is a real good change Snyder comes to PSU if he believed he was a heavy weight which is what Cael recruited him as.

Maybe but we'll never know that for certain. He may have chosen Tan Tom anyway.

Also it's like saying Fix would've come if his dad weren't Smith's teammate, or BoJo would've come if he thought our practices were serious enough -- sometimes facts get in the way of theories.

 

[El-Jefe]

I think the miss on Spencer Lee is proving highly significant. We didn't get a transcendent talent and Iowa got the wrestler who turned their program around.

And yet we're still 2 for 2 with him at Iowa.

Dice is right, though he didn't quite put it in these terms -- look past 2021 and their roster is not at PSU's level. Lee's impact there, great as it might be, appears to be short term.

PS, if we want to be picky, Kemerer is the guy who turned around Iowa. Changed the culture in the room.

 

[Lyons212]

Maybe but we'll never know that for certain. He may have chosen Tan Tom anyway.

Also it's like saying Fix would've come if his dad weren't Smith's teammate, or BoJo would've come if he thought our practices were serious enough -- sometimes facts get in the way of theories.

I think its more than that. Snyder gave an interview earlier this year (FLO or Rudis) and said he really liked Cael and PSU, but wasn't convinced he was a heavy weight. He then looked at VT and O$U. He could have still gone to O$U if he thought he was a heavy...we will never know.

 

[Lyons212]

And yet we're still 2 for 2 with him at Iowa.

Dice is right, though he didn't quite put it in these terms -- look past 2021 and their roster is not at PSU's level. Lee's impact there, great as it might be, appears to be short term.

PS, if we want to be picky, Kemerer is the guy who turned around Iowa. Changed the culture in the room.

and PSU had no need for Kemerer with Nolf and Joseph on board.

 

[jtothemfp]

Had a minute, so I decided to look thru the brackets. When looking at the list this way, very very few risk-free upgrades who were truly available and not publicly interested in PSU.

Below are all transfers who competed since 2016 and placed at any point in their careers. (It’s possible I missed someone, but a lot less likely after pouring thru brackets!) Why 2016? That is the first year any current seniors (non-6th year) would’ve been on campus. The 2016 seniors would’ve been on campus for the 2011 season, so that’s effectively a 10-year window.

Grouping by type of transfer:

Transferred to/from PSU:
Suriano – 2, 1
Conel - 3

Considered PSU during transfer:
McKenna – 3, 3, 2
Micic – 3, 2, 3
DeSanto – 5 (also Kicked Off Team)

Followed coach to new school:
Gwiazdowski – 8, 1, 1, 2
Gross – 2, 1 (for 2nd transfer to Wisconsin; also listed under Kicked Off Team)

Moved home (homesick, family illness, etc.):
Meredith – 2, 4, 2
Miklus – 6, 8, 6 – lost to Rasheed at NCAAs

Kicked off team or academic issues:
Gross – 2, 1 (booted from Iowa; also listed under Followed Coach)
Tsirtsis – 1, 7 – at Zain’s weight
Marsteller – 4, 3 – at Cenzo’s weight
DeSanto – 5 (also considered PSU)
Downey – 5 - at Nickal's weight
I. White – 5 – at Cenzo’s weight
Early – 8 – at Nolf’s weight

DNP after transfer:
Millhof – 7
S. Russell – 7
J. Oliver – 7 – at Zain’s weight
Schram – 8
G. Martinez – 8 – at Zain’s weight; lost starting job at OKST
S. Perry – 8 – program terminated; at Nick Lee’s weight

Everyone else:
D. White – 2 – lost to Cassar at NCAAs
Moisey – 2, 7 - DNP as a senior at Nebraska
Eierman – 5, 4, 3
Geer – 7 – at Rasheed's weight
Lugo – 8 - lost to Berge at B10s
Skatzka – 8 – at Hall’s weight

Terrific research & summaries; thanks, dude!

And Goggles, please keep asking these questions! Despite receiving some criticism, if the questions bring out this kind of research & point-making in answers, they're not inherently inane, and they do eventually provide great value.

I think that's good internetting: framed as inquiries as opposed to takes, the Scientific Method can be applied via crowd-sourcing, and everybody wins.

 

[District four]

Transfers: subtract Cortez and Kuhn; add Gwiiazdowski, Tsirtsis, Suriano, Lugo, Micic, Schram, Millhof, Isaiah White, and Bulk Job.

That might be the complete list of transfers in the past 5 or so years, who made the podium before or after moving. (I may have missed a couple but let's not quibble.)

We got one of them and were in on at least 2 more (Micic and McKenna). A 4th (DeSamto) contacted PSU as well.

Of those remaining: we lost one (Cruiseliner Nick) and 2 more followed their college coaches (Gwiz and Gross).

4 of them were risky -- 2 for misconduct (Gross and DeSanto booted) and 2 for academics (White did not qualify for Ohio State admissions put of HS; Tsirtsis became academically ineligible at NW, also would've been stuck behind Zain).

Point being: these are infrequent, not something that should be a major focus. Still, Cael has been involved when he thinks ot makes sense. If we're concerned about the rest, we're being obsessive.

Personally I think Cael puts a lot of stock in the team and guys geling well together so in my mind he would be extremely selective not to upset his piece of artwork he working on. Just saying

 

[Dogwelder]

Personally I think Cael puts a lot of stock in the team and guys geling well together so in my mind he would be extremely selective not to upset his piece of artwork he working on. Just saying

So yur saying Carl violates the ADA with a “no crazies allowed” discrimination? Wait til Vodka reports this!

 

[Used2BEerie]

This thread just became ironic!

 

[diggerpup]

This thread just become ironic!

Yeah.
I’m very concerned Cael can’t score any elite transfers.

 

[RoarLions1]

This thread just became ironic!

How true ... no Winnie face needed.

 

[slushhead]

How true ... no Winnie face needed.

 

[RoarLions1]

How true ... no winkie face needed.

Anyone else just love auto-correct? Sitting here ready to donate blood, catching up on my cell...and the above is what happens. Funny stuff! And thanks to my good friend slush (really, he is), everyone gets to enjoy.