Gilman
- Thread starter CSauertiegPSU
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I've never seen Brands cost his team a point and yet he's constantly out of control, it makes no sense
Happened at NCAA's a few years ago. They have a tighter leash than the hometown Carver
This post was edited on 2/22 2:43 PM by KidNittany
This post was edited on 2/22 2:43 PM by KidNittany
I admit was a bad move by Gillman however; when bottom man stands all the way up and top man has both legs wrapped around him and up as high as Walters was ref has to step in call stalemake or stalling it is on the offical have seen some call a stalemake right away but not enough iof them do.
I give congrats to Missouri they wanted it and got it.
Also the Brands that is out of line most of the time is Terry.
I give congrats to Missouri they wanted it and got it.
Also the Brands that is out of line most of the time is Terry.
I can agree that the ref should have called a stalemate, but no one expected Gilman to do something crazy and illegal, either. And what was with Gilman in that match? He lost his composure a couple other times on the mat (wrestling well after the whistle) and just generally acted like a spoiled punk.
And completely agree about Brands - it's Terry who tends to lose his mind (and control). I get that the guy is fiery, but I'm sick of passion and competitiveness being used as excuses for lack of self-control.
Agree with you Bruce don't know why Gillman acted that way either.
As for the illegal move he push back can bottom man grab his head and pull him over forward?
That is why that move is potenily dangerous both legs in and bothy standing up offical has to call stalemake or stalling right away.
As for the illegal move he push back can bottom man grab his head and pull him over forward?
That is why that move is potenily dangerous both legs in and bothy standing up offical has to call stalemake or stalling right away.
Nova, I'm agreeing with you could have been hurt all I'm saying is it is the offical who has to make that call tell me how can Walters get into a pinning position in that position?
Not only did the ref miss calling stalemake or stalling . He called the whole thing wrong.
Some of these refs need to called out on there stuff.
Found this on mat .com Posted by Shane Sparks
I still dislike what happen guys but refs need to do a better job they miss lock hands a lot also and never never consisent with stall calling.
http://board.themat.com/index.php?/topic/8768-shane-sparks-slam-report/
Some of these refs need to called out on there stuff.
Found this on mat .com Posted by Shane Sparks
I still dislike what happen guys but refs need to do a better job they miss lock hands a lot also and never never consisent with stall calling.
http://board.themat.com/index.php?/topic/8768-shane-sparks-slam-report/
I don't know about missing locked hands 'a lot' but the Miklus-Meyer match was egregious. Ref was staring right at it and didn't call.
I don't like blaming the refs for losses/match results because a) they're in over their heads with all of these rule nuances to start and b) I'm a firm believer that if you don't win convincingly enough, you shouldn't complain if you lose a close one. Catch a bad officiating break? Too bad, you should've done more to take the ref out of it. But that's just me.
Calling the slam on Waters is buffoonery. I don't even know if it's physically possible considering their body positions. It's weird but it's almost like Gilman did it to make it look like Waters slammed him to get points (in which case he might've succeeded).
Also the 'elbow' by Waters seems to be just him trying to get Gilman out of his way. Can't really blame Gilman's reaction tbh.
That was the most blatant slam I've seen possibly ever, and should not be taken lightly. What's more troubling (as evidenced by the video) are the fans like the guy in the background openly cheering that kind of behavior. Spare me the chippy garbage.
Clark had a nice little elbow after the whistle too. Brands running around like a child. They better cool it at NCAA's or they'll lose some critical team points.
This post was edited on 2/23 2:53 PM by KidNittany
I don't like blaming the refs for losses/match results because a) they're in over their heads with all of these rule nuances to start and b) I'm a firm believer that if you don't win convincingly enough, you shouldn't complain if you lose a close one. Catch a bad officiating break? Too bad, you should've done more to take the ref out of it. But that's just me.
Calling the slam on Waters is buffoonery. I don't even know if it's physically possible considering their body positions. It's weird but it's almost like Gilman did it to make it look like Waters slammed him to get points (in which case he might've succeeded).
Also the 'elbow' by Waters seems to be just him trying to get Gilman out of his way. Can't really blame Gilman's reaction tbh.
That was the most blatant slam I've seen possibly ever, and should not be taken lightly. What's more troubling (as evidenced by the video) are the fans like the guy in the background openly cheering that kind of behavior. Spare me the chippy garbage.
Clark had a nice little elbow after the whistle too. Brands running around like a child. They better cool it at NCAA's or they'll lose some critical team points.
This post was edited on 2/23 2:53 PM by KidNittany
Video from the match ...
click here for the sequence that got all the comments.
how Waters got called for the slam there is absolutely beyond me. I could understand the mistake if there was only 1 ref there, but with 2 refs that's just a brutal call by the ref.
Tom
click here for the sequence that got all the comments.
how Waters got called for the slam there is absolutely beyond me. I could understand the mistake if there was only 1 ref there, but with 2 refs that's just a brutal call by the ref.
Tom
My take was both wrestlers were penalized. Gilman for the SLAM and Waters for the Elbow to the back of the head that lead to Gilman trying to take him down way after the whistle. Things got totally out of control and that falls directly on the officials.
Re: Video from the match ...
would like to hear it directly from the ref.... I don't doubt that is what was said (Water's with the slam) but I do not think that was the way it was meant. You can see Water's gets one for the slam and then gives one with the pushing immediately afterwards...
would like to hear it directly from the ref.... I don't doubt that is what was said (Water's with the slam) but I do not think that was the way it was meant. You can see Water's gets one for the slam and then gives one with the pushing immediately afterwards...
read what minnhawkeye posted ...
from this link:
"After reading comments regarding the scoring at 125 I thought I would come on and help clarify how it was scored. I talked with the head official a couple of times before I reported. He told me that the slam was called on Waters and Gillman was given a point. That made the score 4-2 (Waters). Then Gillman was called for unsportsman like and Waters was given a point which made it 5-2 (Waters). Gillman scored a reversal in the final seconds to make the final 5-4. Again, wanted to clarify that the call was a slam on Waters and not Gillman. That was the way it was called. I also talked to Mike Allen to help clarify, but he had no comment. My report on BTN was accurate. Hope this helps. Had a great time at Carver Hawkeye as always. What a great event!! Thanks for watching the broadcast. Talk to you at Big 10's!! Shane Sparks"
from this link:
"After reading comments regarding the scoring at 125 I thought I would come on and help clarify how it was scored. I talked with the head official a couple of times before I reported. He told me that the slam was called on Waters and Gillman was given a point. That made the score 4-2 (Waters). Then Gillman was called for unsportsman like and Waters was given a point which made it 5-2 (Waters). Gillman scored a reversal in the final seconds to make the final 5-4. Again, wanted to clarify that the call was a slam on Waters and not Gillman. That was the way it was called. I also talked to Mike Allen to help clarify, but he had no comment. My report on BTN was accurate. Hope this helps. Had a great time at Carver Hawkeye as always. What a great event!! Thanks for watching the broadcast. Talk to you at Big 10's!! Shane Sparks"
Re: read what minnhawkeye posted ...
TG is my guy, but WTF? Refs lost control of that match, should have stalemated...especially in OT. That said, Gilman screwed up in desperation and the point should have gone against him. Waters hit Gilman with his elbow and should have been pointed for that. End of story.
TG is my guy, but WTF? Refs lost control of that match, should have stalemated...especially in OT. That said, Gilman screwed up in desperation and the point should have gone against him. Waters hit Gilman with his elbow and should have been pointed for that. End of story.
Re: read what minnhawkeye posted ...
The lone exception to your assessment is that Gilman's "screw up" should have resulted in a DQ. That the ref didn't Stalemate is a mistake but it is not a reason for intent to injure. The reason that is a PD position is that very move has caused significant injuries in the past as in concussions, broken backs and necks.
Gilman's move was no different than George's knee to Nate Browns head which did cause Brown a concussion and was unable to participate in the next match .in the EWL's and the NCAA's. The ONLY good result of Gilman's slam is that Waters was lucky he was not injured. That he wasn't injured is not an excuse for a should be DQ'ed wrestler to continue.
We can argue the ref failed on the PD or Stalemate call, but they usually do allow some reaction time and really, I don't think they were up there all that long ..but as I always say, the ref must not only ref, but be aware of situations and the flow of a match. This match was hot and furious at the end, and should have been PD'd or Stalemated quickly. I think he failed miserably. But no ref is prepared or expects Gilman's move.
The lone exception to your assessment is that Gilman's "screw up" should have resulted in a DQ. That the ref didn't Stalemate is a mistake but it is not a reason for intent to injure. The reason that is a PD position is that very move has caused significant injuries in the past as in concussions, broken backs and necks.
Gilman's move was no different than George's knee to Nate Browns head which did cause Brown a concussion and was unable to participate in the next match .in the EWL's and the NCAA's. The ONLY good result of Gilman's slam is that Waters was lucky he was not injured. That he wasn't injured is not an excuse for a should be DQ'ed wrestler to continue.
We can argue the ref failed on the PD or Stalemate call, but they usually do allow some reaction time and really, I don't think they were up there all that long ..but as I always say, the ref must not only ref, but be aware of situations and the flow of a match. This match was hot and furious at the end, and should have been PD'd or Stalemated quickly. I think he failed miserably. But no ref is prepared or expects Gilman's move.
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