Yes, no doubt, coaches always have their own motives, but I do feel like this was a bit unique. You have top recruits scrambling for a new school in light of unprecedented sanctions and the coach asks to give them and their parents one last pitch to come to PSU. He invites them all up and tells them "if you come here, and you see this through, you will be legends." Hack and Adam describe it as emotional to the point where there is not a dry eye in the room. BOB then tells the kids and their parents that he will see their careers at PSU all the way through. That is just a tough thing to do after their freshman season when they finish a surprise 7-5. Both Adam and Hack thought the team really had something special and Hack talks about BOB speaking with him almost daily in the offseason and providing several assurances he is not going anywhere, don't listen to the reports linking him to NFL jobs. I get it, life is life, people look out for #1, its a business, etc. I just think it was very poor on BOB's side and remember, he and his agent were gauging penn state for more money almost the second he got there.
Hackenberg: "It didn't have anything to do with the football program, and then all of a sudden..."
- Thread starter ChiTownLion
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Yes, no doubt, coaches always have their own motives, but I do feel like this was a bit unique. You have top recruits scrambling for a new school in light of unprecedented sanctions and the coach asks to give them and their parents one last pitch to come to PSU. He invites them all up and tells them "if you come here, and you see this through, you will be legends." Hack and Adam describe it as emotional to the point where there is not a dry eye in the room. BOB then tells the kids and their parents that he will see their careers at PSU all the way through. That is just a tough thing to do after their freshman season when they finish a surprise 7-5. Both Adam and Hack thought the team really had something special and Hack talks about BOB speaking with him almost daily in the offseason and providing several assurances he is not going anywhere, don't listen to the reports linking him to NFL jobs. I get it, life is life, people look out for #1, its a business, etc. I just think it was very poor on BOB's side and remember, he and his agent were gauging penn state for more money almost the second he got there.
Something to add that they didn't mention, BOB was looking to leave after year 1.
I've posted this same comment previously, BOB did what he had to do at the time to salvage his job then got the heck out. He did what any other highly driven coach at that level would have done. He did well, I guess, for 2 seasons, but that was unfinished business IMO. I realize every coach gives every recruit the same song and dance, but this should have been different.
Similar but different... I have a soft spot in my heart for Zack Mills. I really liked the kid.
As for Hack, I grant him a pass. He 'could have been", great, but it turns out he was not. no big deal. It happens. I respect his commitment to PSU through those times.
I look back at the 2013 michigan game and watch the throws that Hackenberg made and wonder what could have been. Now, I am not going to be one of those fans who pretends to know what went on inside the program during that time, so I am not going to assign blame to anyone. It happened how it happened, but I don't know why. All I know is that Hackenberg looked like the real deal when he arrived on campus. He never had great mobility, and he struggled behind, at best, a mediocre offensive line, but when he had time in the pocket, he looked very good at the start.
I don't blame OB because of all the bullcrap he had to deal with. Joyner meddling, giving presentations to the BOT and them barely pay attention, the small segment of our fanbase that called and emailed Lasch each week to bitch about something they didn't like (lord I feel for whomever was the administrative assistant taking all those calls from the whackos). Hate it for the players as well, however in the end I feel it worked out best for everyone other than a few of the players. Joyner can rot in hell with rest of his BOT buddies.
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I disagree with some of that. I don't think he "didn't" have the team prepared for Ohio and UVA. IMO it was beyond his control. When did Brown, Redd and the kicker leave? If our kicker stays we win the UVA game and if Justin Brown stays we don't have a lb back trying to return punts. Not to mention Silas still being there while BOB was trying to figure out that Zack Z. was the best RB on the team. Now why it took him that long is anyone's guess.
As for the rest I think you are spot on.
Eh sorta. The rule was you would be allowed to go over the 85 scholarship limit to sign a PSU player who wanted to transfer to your school for that year, however, you had to be back at 85 the following year.
To a great extent he was. The reason he was a 5-star QB was the same reason he got drafted. He was a prototypical QB with his size and had a rocket arm. The problem with Hack was that he literally never progressed from high school. The same problems he had at Fork Union were the same problems he had at Penn State were the same problems he had in the NFL. He was flat footed when he threw. He had no pocket presence. He lacks touch on the ball and constantly rifled it whether it was 10 yards or 50. He overthrew or underthrew receivers constantly. I believe his completion rate at Fork Union was about 58% or so. He didn't have as great of a freshman year as people think he did number wise .... he just had a great year because we were sanctioned and everyone thought we'd be atrocious. As the defensive talent he went against got better and better from HS to college to pros ... he started looking worse and worse.
That all being said, i'm still thankful he came here and he's still part of the reason that Penn State is as successful as it is again now.
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Totally agree. Especially about the FR season. I also think people forget that when we viewed Hack in 2013 we viewed him with the "and he's just a FR" disclaimer.
Totally agree. Especially about the FR season. I also think people forget that when we viewed Hack in 2013 we viewed him with the "and he's just a FR" disclaimer.
I agree, but I would add a couple of things.
Hack had decent straight line speed, but absolutely no agility in tight spaces. He looked like a deer in the headlights when pressure was coming.
Also, he looked better his freshman year because of Allen Robinson pulling in anything in the same zip code.
I disagree with some of that. I don't think he "didn't" have the team prepared for Ohio and UVA. IMO it was beyond his control. When did Brown, Redd and the kicker leave? If our kicker stays we win the UVA game and if Justin Brown stays we don't have a lb back trying to return punts. Not to mention Silas still being there while BOB was trying to figure out that Zack Z. was the best RB on the team. Now why it took him that long is anyone's guess.
As for the rest I think you are spot on.
There's no doubt that the departures hurt PSU. In fact I'll go as far as to say that PSU would have been a leading contender to win the BiG title if Fera, Fortt, Redd, Brown, Pollard, etc. hadn't left. That said, PSU had a ton more talent than OU or Virginia. They had McGloin returning as a senior QB, ARob, Gilliam, Belton, D. Smith, Urshel, Zwinak, etc on offense. They had D. Barnes, D. Jones, Hill, & Stanley on the DL, Carson, Mauti, & Hodges at LB, Amos at CB, and 2 SR safeties. We can all second guess why Hodges was returing punts and why walkon Day was starting RB but that's not the point. PSU still had a huge talent advantage over those teams.
True. Talent wise they did but would this have been 2 of the games that Adam and Hack were talking about when they only had 43 players? (which I still have a hard time believing, I mean I knew it was bad but I thought it was like 63).
Mills was awful, a turnover machine, but people have a positive feeling about him. I do not put down his character or family, just his ability on the football field.
Hack was unbelievable as a frosh and had to go to war with the worst OL we ever had. Despite that he missed few snaps, except for his last game. On top of surviving he actually had winning seasons for us every year he played.
Hack helped to save the program and he deserves much of the credit for the team avoiding total collapse. His decision to come here was one of the reasons our recruiting was good enough to keep us competitive during the sanctions.
I do not understand the negative comments about him.
He was a frosh, playing on a team with limited depth, at the most important position on the field. He found a way to produce, and I give him props for getting the ball to the best player on the field. How many frosh quarterbacks can't find a way to do that? Hell, how many upper classman quarterbacks can't find a way to do that?
I probably have my timeline messed up, but I think Mills benefited from some poor recruiting decisions and missed opportunities in the days of the silent verbal.
IIRC, Mills had a great RS Frosh or soph season (2002?) but wasn't so hot the years following. Those later years all I remember were him scrambling out of the pocket running away from the LOS and heaving balls out of bounds. Time after time. Some crappy years, team wide.
I seem to recall he injured his shoulder late in his career and it made it look like he was shot-putting the ball. Joe probably used his influence to keep him on the field.
You guys have a different memory from me.
Mills had one winning season and that was the year Larry Johnson ran for nearly 2,100 yards.
Mills four years -
frosh 9 tds/12 ints
soph 17 tds/10 ints
jr 6 tds/5ints
sr 9tds/12 ints
Mills was never the same after having his shoulder mangled by the wiscy turf.
As a first year starter, Trace McSorley inherited the same OL that Hackenberg had and won a B1G championship. No ill will toward Hackenberg, but he was an awful QB.
There was that 26 guy.
And you might note that the scheme Franklin asked Hack to run was not the scheme that BOB recruited the kid to run.
Hack had 48 tds while giving up 31 ints. Not excellent, but certainly not awful. Three winning seasons at the most important spot on the field.
Methinks you calling him awful is generated by some other issues you have.
Outside of Bryant Johnson and maybe Tony Johnson (and really Johnson was only good for 1 year) and Tony Stewart at TE the WR's were pretty bad. Also they had a horrible RB by committee that was a disaster and a completely inept Offense and OC.
Just take a look at the offensive players on the 2000 and 01 roster, its not pretty.
And Kenny Watson was completely wasted by the staff.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/penn-state/2000-roster.html
Correct. He injured the shoulder against Wisconsin.
That 26 guy played in 2015 as well.
If you think the team in 2016 was anything like the team in 2013 you and I just have to agree to disagree. I am not saying the 2016 team was fully recovered by the sanctions, but it had clearly turned a corner.
True but he was also on Hack's team, albeit a freshman. Hack also had some guy named Allan Robinson that turned out to be pretty good and frankly mad Hack look a lot better than he really was.
The big difference was the addition of JoMo and Limey
Add Mills to that list of bad recruiting, bad player development, and bad coaching decisions.
The fact Michael Robinson was not developed over Mills still boggles my mind.
Really?????
The OL that year was Donovan Smith - Miles Diffenbach - Ty Howle - John Urschel - Adam Gress. Three of the starting 5 made the NFL. That's the worst OL PSU's ever had??
Hack, passer rating, yards rushing
2013 134.0, -68
2014 109.4, -94
2015 123.9, -80
College passer rating: 121.4
That career passer rating is in fact "awful".
Trace's first year: 156.9, 365 yards rushing.
Also amusing is that Trace said he hasn't heard a word from Hack since he left.
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Haven't listened to the podcast yet, but do they dispel the ridiculous notion that OB saved Penn State football? I like that it appears they call him out for being a liar.
Jordan Rodgers and Austyn Carta-Samuels ran the same offense in 2012 and 2013 at Vanderbilt while rushing for a combined 186 yards and posting QB ratings of 139.1 and 143.0.
When your argument is exposed as bullshit, resort to personal attacks. You are to message board posters what Hack was to QBs.
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So, listening to this now. I get anyone can do a podcast, but I'm struggling listening to Adam's hot take on Andrew Luck. I feel like he'd have a ton of insight into something like what happened at Penn State, but why would anyone listen to him talk about anything else? Didn't he run for office or something? Anyway, listening continues...
