Hate to post/agree with a Davey J piece, but...

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

One year scholarships opens the door to coaches not renewing said scholarships.

And players deciding they're better off elsewhere, right? Art's point is well taken too - the schools have a ton of resources and leverage and have been protected at the expense of player freedom. But I think total free agency would be a disaster. Pay the player, do contracts, etc. - something to make fielding a football team predictable while allowing players more freedom to leave if they choose.

 

[WDLion]

Maybe I'm mis-reading your comment (if so, Mea Culpa):

But "processing" (or whatever one wants to call it) HAS TO BE done by Summer Camp …. or somewhere in around that tine frame, IIRC.
By definition, "processing" (trimming the "deadwood" from the roster) has to occur before the last batch of the new recruits arrive, since schools have to be below that 85 man limit at that point.

There would be no benefit to "processing" during the season (or anytime from when the summer recruits arrive, and the first members of the next batch start coming in)

Again, IIRC.

I think we're agreeing.

 

[WPB_lion]

Why shouldn’t any player be able to depart anytime?
If you want to be a fan of a team of free agents, have at it. I'll decline.

While "free agency" will not be popular among fans, college athletics is supposed to be about the students. IMO, if a student is not happy, he should be allowed to leave for another school. However, if players are allowed to leave at any time, I think a lot of schools are going to feel more comfortable about pulling scholarships (regardless of whether the player wants to stay) if the players aren't living up to their hype out of high school.

IMO, if you are going to restrict a players right to leave, a corresponding restriction should be made on a school's ability to withdraw a 4 year scholarship. On the flip side, if players can leave at any time, the scholarship should be revocable at any time.

 

[poker1]

I don't know about the rest of you, but the transfer portal and players sitting out bowl games is starting to kill my passion for the last remaining sport I care about.

NBA ... yuck
CBB ... too corrupt, one-and-dones
MLB ... too boring
NHL ... mehhh, I'll watch some Flyers games during the season but lately they either don't make the playoffs or early exit
NFL ... still enjoy watching, but no where near as much fun as CFB

Free agency did a lot to kill my passion for pro sports and now is creeping into college football. I understand why it is in place ... just miss the days when you could buy a player's jersey knowing he would be on your team a long time. Bought a Mike Richards shirt for my daughter (big Flyers fan) two weeks before he was traded.

Now GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

Because college fb has always been so clean and slavery is neat.

 

[Art]

How many schools will continue to offer four year scholarships as long as a student athlete fulfills his obligations on and off the practice field ? If an athlete becomes physically unable to continue in his sport for whatever reason, will schools increasingly terminate scholarships in these situations ? How much worse will the oversigning problem become ?
I have to believe, if some schools perceive that they money is right, ways will be found to accommodate in season transfers.'

More questions:

"How many schools will continue to offer four year scholarships as long as a student athlete fulfills his obligations on and off the practice field ?"

Reality is that few, if any, maintain a commitment to a four year scholarship. They may advertise it, the paper may say it's for four years, but if a coach wants a player gone, he's gone and no one is doing jackshit to stop him.

"If an athlete becomes physically unable to continue in his sport for whatever reason, will schools increasingly terminate scholarships in these situations ?"

What's new here? This situation has been taking place for years. Kid is physically unable to play, is retired for medical reasons, and stays on scholarship (ever hear of Nana Asiedu and Jordan Miner?). Doesn't count against player limits and the coach isn't responsible for the (financial) bottom line.

"How much worse will the oversigning problem become ?"

Not much worse than it is today given the hard limits that the NCAA and conferences have put on signees.

" I have to believe, if some schools perceive that they money is right, ways will be found to accommodate in season transfers."

University presidents are pretty much whores, but I doubt you'll find any who are willing to sell their ass so cheap as to deal with the flack if they allow that to happen.

 

[83wuzme]

More questions:

"How many schools will continue to offer four year scholarships as long as a student athlete fulfills his obligations on and off the practice field ?"

Reality is that few, if any, maintain a commitment to a four year scholarship. They may advertise it, the paper may say it's for four years, but if a coach wants a player gone, he's gone and no one is doing jackshit to stop him.

"If an athlete becomes physically unable to continue in his sport for whatever reason, will schools increasingly terminate scholarships in these situations ?"

What's new here? This situation has been taking place for years. Kid is physically unable to play, is retired for medical reasons, and stays on scholarship (ever hear of Nana Asiedu and Jordan Miner?). Doesn't count against player limits and the coach isn't responsible for the (financial) bottom line.

"How much worse will the oversigning problem become ?"

Not much worse than it is today given the hard limits that the NCAA and conferences have put on signees.

" I have to believe, if some schools perceive that they money is right, ways will be found to accommodate in season transfers."

University presidents are pretty much whores, but I doubt you'll find any who are willing to sell their ass so cheap as to deal with the flack if they allow that to happen.

With men’s BBall, I predict inseason transfers will become common at certain schools, This is easily justified in BBall as the season is divided between semesters. Once it starts in one sport, I can see it happening in additional sports.
I am not aware of PSU oversigning in football or of this being much of a concern at most BIG programs. It certainly has existed in CFB. It is easy to see it becoming the norm in the wake of the new transfer rules because schools will perceive pressure to do this in order to remain competitive.
We might end up with new rule differences between athletic conferences and competitive divisions as a result of these new policies. If rosters devolve into what amount to be glorified pickup teams, which is most likely in MBB, expect fans to vote with their feet.

 

[Art]

With men’s BBall, I predict inseason transfers will become common at certain schools, This is easily justified in BBall as the season is divided between semesters. Once it starts in one sport, I can see it happening in additional sports.
I am not aware of PSU oversigning in football or of this being much of a concern at most BIG programs. It certainly has existed in CFB. It is easy to see it becoming the norm in the wake of the new transfer rules because schools will perceive pressure to do this in order to remain competitive.
We might end up with new rule differences between athletic conferences and competitive divisions as a result of these new policies. If rosters devolve into what amount to be glorified pickup teams, which is most likely in MBB, expect fans to vote with their feet.

Sure, an in-season transfer could happen in basketball. What dictates against it:

a. transfer doesn't get a waiver of the one year residence rule and has to sit. By the time his appeal is processed his season is over;

b. school has to have room on its roster to accept an incoming transfer. Limits possibilities, or a coach has to cut someone. Don't imagine that going over too well;

c. kid who wants to transfer generally would like to start or see significant playing time. That means that players who play spend way more time on the pine. That will go over even better than 2.

With regard to other sports, who honestly cares?

But, hey, I'm all for the type of free agency you envisage. Would remove any vestige of education being at the center of college sports and there could be no legal defense to prevent kids from being paid.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

I have no idea what Franklin told Stevens or what Stevens's motivations to transfer are. I also see absolutely no reason why a school should be "protected" if a player wants to leave. Coaches make millions. Time for them to grow up.

FWIW, I agree with the sentiment that players should be allowed to leave and seek opportunities and I'm glad they have them. But coaches/universities have limited schollies to build a roster, they invest heavily in the players and they have to be able to plan/count on players actually being there to play. Also, on some level students, including student athletes, choose their team based on the other students / players they expect to be with in college. I support choice and opportunity for these kids but I'm not in favor of creating a completely open market out of collegiate athletics.

 

[83wuzme]

Sure, an in-season transfer could happen in basketball. What dictates against it:

a. transfer doesn't get a waiver of the one year residence rule and has to sit. By the time his appeal is processed his season is over;

b. school has to have room on its roster to accept an incoming transfer. Limits possibilities, or a coach has to cut someone. Don't imagine that going over too well;

c. kid who wants to transfer generally would like to start or see significant playing time. That means that players who play spend way more time on the pine. That will go over even better than 2.

With regard to other sports, who honestly cares?

But, hey, I'm all for the type of free agency you envisage. Would remove any vestige of education being at the center of college sports and there could be no legal defense to prevent kids from being paid.

Then there appears to be no reason to connect these sports teams with universities, at least on a long term basis.

 

[Art]

FWIW, I agree with the sentiment that players should be allowed to leave and seek opportunities and I'm glad they have them. But coaches/universities have limited schollies to build a roster, they invest heavily in the players and they have to be able to plan/count on players actually being there to play. Also, on some level students, including student athletes, choose their team based on the other students / players they expect to be with in college. I support choice and opportunity for these kids but I'm not in favor of creating a completely open market out of collegiate athletics.

You mean the same coach that can, in the blink of an eye, abandon all of those players in whom he's invested so heavily? As for the school's investment, let's not even go there.

 

[hotmetal]

Jones says there is no loyalty anywhere. I don't agree with that. Coaches don't always know how players will develop during a year or two. Should coaches sit down with every freshman and sophomore and tell them who will eventually start and who won't? Coaches want to keep their options open. There is a certain amount of uncertainty out there. Did Joe Paterno completely lack a sense of loyalty? I find that hard to believe.

 

[WDLion]

Jones says there is no loyalty anywhere. I don't agree with that. Coaches don't always know how players will develop during a year or two. Should coaches sit down with every freshman and sophomore and tell them who will eventually start and who won't? Coaches want to keep their options open. There is a certain amount of uncertainty out there. Did Joe Paterno completely lack a sense of loyalty? I find that hard to believe.

He sees everything run the way Penn Live is operated. Sadly in most cases, he's right.

 

[flash86]

I think it's as simple as he has come to realize that he probably won't be the starter.

In his book "For the Glory...," Ken Denligher had two bottom line pieces of advice: to JoePa - give more time to your team; and to the recruits - go where you will play. If TS has only one year to go and is concerned that he will not have the opportunity, hard to disagree with the move. Not saying I like it/agree with it, or that I like possibility of free agency in college football, etc. Conversely, he did his part and graduated.
Just saying this is "His Shot" (thank you Hamilton/Lin-Manuel) and he likely feels he has to take it.

I'd add I'm unsure he will get a good chance to take "His Shot" well anywhere else, for all the reasons mentioned by others.

 

[Crusher1950]

College football will ruin college football. It has already started the Clemson’s, Alabama ‘s, Ohio State’s of the world will run college football for the next century. You can bet on it

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...-herm-edwards-threatens-cut-players-packed-in
What are you, some kind of commie?
Maybe football should have year to year contracts and allow the coach to cut a player at any time for any reason, but let that player keep his scholarship if he doesn't transfer. Here's how the PAC handles it, not sure of B10.
http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...-herm-edwards-threatens-cut-players-packed-in

Not a commie...more like a realist. I’m all for competition and earning a spot, but some positions - like QB - only allow for one guy to get most of the touches. I don’t know what was said between JF and TS, but if he thinks he has even a remote chance of earning a nice paycheck at the next level, I don’t blame him for wanting to maximize his chance to prove himself in essentially a one-&-done year. Maybe he wants to go to an offense that will allow him to build the best resume for pro scouts? Regardless, he’s earned his degree, been a model citizen/teammate/leader, and unselfishly done everything asked of him. After all of that, if leaving is what he thinks bests his odds, then how can anyone blame him for doing so?

 

[MacNit07]

...he makes some really good points in his article about Stevens.

Tommy Stevens’ likely transfer from Penn State raises question: Why shouldn’t any player be able to depart anytime?
http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefo...dnt-any-player-be-able-to-depart-anytime.html

I find it interesting that he implies Franklin is duplicitous and not as virtuous as Bill O’Brien. His boy flew the coup faster than any of them!

 

[flash86]

I find it interesting that he implies Franklin is duplicitous and not as virtuous as Bill O’Brien. His boy flew the coup faster than any of them!

It’s only a question of how he can take a shot at PSU. If supporting BOB POV takes a shot at PSU, he’s for it; if it’s TS’s dad he’s for it; if it’s Ted Bundy he’s for it! And I don’t really hold anything against BOB or TS’s dad! DJ will simply take the side of anyone that fits his anti-PSU agenda.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

I find it interesting that he implies Franklin is duplicitous and not as virtuous as Bill O’Brien. His boy flew the coup faster than any of them!

Looking past whatever perceived shots he took at anyone, he makes some good points that bring to light some of the injustices that exist in cfb. My stance on DJ is well documented on this site, but while he may not be 100% accurate with all of his assertions, he’s right that there is precious little lily white in the sport.

 

[flash86]

He’s still pot calling kettle black!

Looking past whatever perceived shots he took at anyone, he makes some good points that bring to light some of the injustices that exist in cfb. My stance on DJ is well documented on this site, but while he may not be 100% accurate with all of his assertions, he’s right that there is precious little lily white in the sport.

 

[joeparules]

You were born in the wrong era- you would have loved the Roman Empire in say 10 AD. Those gladiators didn't get any free agent option.

Don't have to go back that far. It was great growing up in the 70s as a baseball fan. I've always been a Phillies fan, but I can still name every starter of the Big Red Machine. Free agency helped with parity in sports, but also impacted fan/team loyalty.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Yeah,

You mean the same coach that can, in the blink of an eye, abandon all of those players in whom he's invested so heavily? As for the school's investment, let's not even go there.

Yes. Them. I don’t love that coaches are able to do that either. There was a time not too long ago that most coaches wouldn’t bait, switch or even jump so easily.

And certainly the schools’ return on these players is inordinately more favorable than each player’s. But that’s not where I was going. They dedicate boatloads on coaches, other personnel, facilities, etc., not to mention what fans spend, choices by other players, and whatever else by whomever else, in reliance of the players playing on the teams they’ve agreed to play for. To quit is one thing and extenuating circumstances are another. But it wasn’t too long ago that any and every player on our roster was given a free pass to just up and leave. I just think of what’d happened if too great a percentage took the opportunity. Sure, there was plenty more to the equation but to completely open the floodgates and allow comparable movement... i think that’d be a huge mistake—if that’s what you’re suggesting would be acceptable. I haven’t gone back to your earlier post-just responding in the moment I have.

Sure there are counter-arguments and plenty I didn’t address here but I’d vote to pay the players before that.

 

[Art]

Yeah,

Yes. Them. I don’t love that coaches are able to do that either. There was a time not too long ago that most coaches wouldn’t bait, switch or even jump so easily.

And certainly the schools’ return on these players is inordinately more favorable than each player’s. But that’s not where I was going. They dedicate boatloads on coaches, other personnel, facilities, etc., not to mention what fans spend, choices by other players, and whatever else by whomever else, in reliance of the players playing on the teams they’ve agreed to play for. To quit is one thing and extenuating circumstances are another. But it wasn’t too long ago that any and every player on our roster was given a free pass to just up and leave. I just think of what’d happened if too great a percentage took the opportunity. Sure, there was plenty more to the equation but to completely open the floodgates and allow comparable movement... i think that’d be a huge mistake—if that’s what you’re suggesting would be acceptable. I haven’t gone back to your earlier post-just responding in the moment I have.

Sure there are counter-arguments and plenty I didn’t address here but I’d vote to pay the players before that.

You should look at some numbers. You might find them illuminating.

 

[poker1]

In MLB fan loyalty peaked before 1975 with the reserve clause when players were indentured servants to their original team. They could agree to the owner's terms or quit. Ah, the good old days of slavery.

 

[UncleLar]

What conspiracy? Coaches don't need anyone's assistance to get rid of a player. Do you think anyone, the AD, the conference, the NCAA, is checking the circumstances?

Some years ago Saban put a couple of kids on so-called "medical scholarships." One or two bridled and made a stink about it; they wanted to play. Brouhaha lasted a couple of days and then vanished.

Maybe things have changed in the last 4-5 years, but I know for a fact that O'Brien wanted to cut a kid and PSU wouldn't let him.

 

[Obliviax]

Ncaa is going to have to limit the time the portal is open so rosters can be set.

Second thought, PSU has a problem.

Third, one and done has come to football.

Forth, I don't have any problem with cjf telling Tommy he has to compete. I love Tommy but he hasn't done it on the field. I get promising Trace in his Junior and senior years. Football is about competition. Tommy made his choice, good luck to him

 

[Yanks49]

In MLB fan loyalty peaked before 1975 with the reserve clause when players were indentured servants to their original team. They could agree to the owner's terms or quit. Ah, the good old days of slavery.

Wasn't even close to slavery.

 

[denniskembala]

No matter how you cut it, Dave Jones is still an idiot and a wiener.

 

[PSU Dave]

They should also get paid, but that's another matter. They can already get released. Allowing them to be traded? I kinda like that idea.

Replace Recruiting with the "NCAA Draft"?

 

[Lion409]

The whole system needs to be overhauled....but who trusts the NCAA to lead it? With transfer waivers and the portal, we are ushering in a new world of free agency to college sports. Tommy will go start for JOMO and The Big Red Dog will lead us to a Big 10 Championship.

 

[hagberg]

In MLB fan loyalty peaked before 1975 with the reserve clause when players were indentured servants to their original team. They could agree to the owner's terms or quit. Ah, the good old days of slavery.

You throw the word 'slavery' around quite easily. You should brush up on your history, or maybe ask someone to explain what slavery actually is. I'm sure there were - and are - plenty of slaves who would have loved the opportunity to quit.

 

[Art]

Maybe things have changed in the last 4-5 years, but I know for a fact that O'Brien wanted to cut a kid and PSU wouldn't let him.

I see. So that one instance covers everything that happened before and since at PSU at at every college football program.

 

[UncleLar]

I see. So that one instance covers everything that happened before and since at PSU at at every college football program.

It covers PSU and PSU only. I'm not making any observation about any other program.

 

[demlion]

...he makes some really good points in his article about Stevens.

Tommy Stevens’ likely transfer from Penn State raises question: Why shouldn’t any player be able to depart anytime?
http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefo...dnt-any-player-be-able-to-depart-anytime.html

You mean like halftime of a close game? Move from one team to the opponent DURING the game? That could move some betting lines!

 

[poker1]

You throw the word 'slavery' around quite easily. You should brush up on your history, or maybe ask someone to explain what slavery actually is. I'm sure there were - and are - plenty of slaves who would have loved the opportunity to quit.

You are right. I was (inartfully) trying to suggest that those defending the status quo yearn for a time when everybody "knew their place".

 

[Art]

It covers PSU and PSU only. I'm not making any observation about any other program.

It covers one case at PSU at a time when the program was under an intense microscope, during sanctions, when players could quit of their own volition, athletic-based financial aid couldn't be withdrawn, and still count against the football scholarship limits.

 

[UncleLar]

You "know that for a fact". OK.

Of course, at that time, any kid who wasn't playing football anymore could just continue on scholarship, and PSU would have to count it as a football scholarship (vav the scholarship limits) as per NCAA dictate.

But, yeah, OK

I used to be a producer for the Goon Show radio program. Bill O'Brien was a regular on the show and came in absolutely livid one day (this was after spring practice, before the sanctions were handed down). He told Goon, Tim Sweeney and me that he wanted to cut a player loose, but the PSU administration wouldn't let him. He also warned us that if word ever got out, we would lose all access to the football program. I don't think that threat matters any longer, so I'm comfortable making the statement (I won't name the player though). You can choose to believe me or not but my track record is pretty strong.

 

[snider]

I assume, if every player on a roster were permitted to enter a portal and transfer when it seemed desirable to him (i.e. collegiate free agency), and if other teams were permitted to accept a transfer, and even compete for them, the obvious result would be teams raiding each others’ rosters. Recruitment would take a back seat to raiding wars. With, of course, the presence of below-the-table inducements. Am I wrong about that?

 

[flash86]

Wow, talk about a boom for Phil and his colleagues: not just recruiting and actual football talk, but a whole new content line on transfer rumors and activity in and out of season (like EspnFC Transfer Talk On soccer).

My. Head. Will. Explode!

 

[PSUPride1]

They should also get paid, but that's another matter. They can already get released. Allowing them to be traded? I kinda like that idea.

Guess the education part doesn't add up to much to you. Last I heard this isn't a semi-pro league we're following. And on top of a very expensive education the athletes do get a stipend of a few grand. I know we make to be the Killing Fields but the package an athlete gets is not half bad.
This is either college or semi-pro. What about kids in the research departments? Should they get paid because their respective departments bring in millions and even billions in grants, etc.
This paying everyone can be a slippery slope.

 

[Art]

I assume, if every player on a roster were permitted to enter a portal and transfer when it seemed desirable to him (i.e. collegiate free agency), and if other teams were permitted to accept a transfer, and even compete for them, the obvious result would be teams raiding each others’ rosters. Recruitment would take a back seat to raiding wars. With, of course, the presence of below-the-table inducements. Am I wrong about that?

For all of the kids in the portal, there are far more that choose to remain with their teams, so I guess you are wrong.