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Hockey gets tough draw in tournament...

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VaNtyLion

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Jul 11, 2001
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Most of the bracket predictions way off.....

PSU still a 3 seed but lands in Cincinnati vs. Union. Not a bad matchup there but looming with a W is the #1 seed Denver.

Some very odd decisions by the committee in where a handful of teams ended up.

Union is a decent matchup for PSU. There's some familiarity there which should help
 
BU is stacked. I'd much rather take a crack at Union in Cincy. Instead of BU in Providence. Terriers have 3-4
players whom are very good NHL Prospects; McAvoy, Fabbro, Bellows.
 
They bracketed it exactly the way they should. Denver is the 1, gets Michigan Tech as the 16. Union as the 8 gets Penn State as the 9.

Games are in Cincinnati. Bummed out I'm not there anymore myself, but hopefully our Midwest-based Nittany Lions can perhaps get to the game!
 
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VaNtyLion said:
Most of the bracket predictions way off.....

PSU still a 3 seed but lands in Cincinnati vs. Union. Not a bad matchup there but looming with a W is the #1 seed Denver.

Some very odd decisions by the committee in where a handful of teams ended up.

Union is a decent matchup for PSU. There's some familiarity there which should help
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Wildcard. Let's hope Jones' hot streak continues.
 
Mister Magoo said:
BU is stacked. I'd much rather take a crack at Union in Cincy. Instead of BU in Providence. Terriers have 3-4
players whom are very good NHL Prospects; McAvoy, Fabbro, Bellows.
Click to expand...

I was looking forward to a BU game if it came to be, even though Union represents a more favorable matchup, although hardly a gimme. They're a solid #2 in that region for a reason.

BU should be pretty livid about having to go to Fargo
 
Majorly bummed as I will be 20 minutes outside of Providence this weekend! Stupid question, but is ESPN 3 a cable TV or online channel?
 
joeparules said:
Majorly bummed as I will be 20 minutes outside of Providence this weekend! Stupid question, but is ESPN 3 a cable TV or online channel?
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No kidding! I live 20 minutes from the DD Center...was looking forward to getting to see them play close by.
 
Good luck PSU Hockey. Union beat my Gophers for the title, first year of BIG Hockey. Be careful.

I like our first game, we typically beat ND. Our coach, as you may know, ND alum. Brats are going to be in the conference starting next year.

Hope to see you in the Frozen Four, rematch : ).

Despite being a BIG fan overall, I understand some of your fans being discontent with the conference, but I'm rooting for you to reach the Frozen Four - not OSU. Like most of you, the rest of us loathe Michigan and OSU, most days. Moreover, I'm Minnesota born and bred and Duluth is my second favorite team, and generally most Minnesotans quietly root for them, even against the Gophers, though they won't admit it.
 
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jimmysfly said:
Good luck PSU Hockey. Union beat my Gophers for the title, first year of BIG Hockey. Be careful.

I like our first game, we typically beat ND. Our coach, as you may know, ND alum. Brats are going to be in the conference starting next year.

Hope to see you in the Frozen Four, rematch : ).

Despite being a BIG fan overall, I understand some of your fans being discontent with the conference, but I'm rooting for you to reach the Frozen Four - not OSU. Like most of you, the rest of us loathe Michigan and OSU, most days. Moreover, I'm Minnesota born and bred and Duluth is my second favorite team, and generally most Minnesotans quietly root for them, even against the Gophers, though they won't admit it.
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Bold is blasphemy, otherwise agree good post. UMD is part of the U of M family! As a college hockey fan I am glad to see you agree that it is great to see Penn State in the big dance. Although I would love to see both teams in the frozen four, I am beginning to wonder how we will fair without Lingren playing. I believe in next man up but he was really turning into something special. Hopefully he can comeback to full strength next season. Anyway, back to the Nittany Lions hockey team. I like their chances. Man do they have a lot of fight! Playing all that hockey and coming out as champions has to give them the utmost confidence.
 
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STPGopherfan said:
Bold is blasphemy, otherwise agree good post. UMD is part of the U of M family! As a college hockey fan I am glad to see you agree that it is great to see Penn State in the big dance. Although I would love to see both teams in the frozen four, I am beginning to wonder how we will fair without Lingren playing. I believe in next man up but he was really turning into something special. Hopefully he can comeback to full strength next season. Anyway, back to the Nittany Lions hockey team. I like their chances. Man do they have a lot of fight! Playing all that hockey and coming out as champions has to give them the utmost confidence.
Click to expand...

Just glancing down the brackets, I see Harvard and Denver as heavy favorites for the Frozen Four given their regions unless there are serious goalie heroics. There just seems to be a bigger gap between themselves and the rest of their fields in-region.

I think the Northeast is probably the most wide open. Minnesota most talented but if there's a 1 seed in region that's most in jeopardy, I think their matchups are going to be a lot harder. ND playing great in 2nd half, but something about Cornell has seemed very dangerous.

The West will be a bloodbath and whoever manages to make it out of there is going to look like a boxer that went 15 rounds.
 
FYI, it's not that great of an arena, but the area around it has improved since the new stadia were built. There a number of decent bars and restaurants between Great American Ballpark and Paul Brown Stadium (the arena is on the other side of GABP and shares a plaza with the stadium's outfield concourse) If you go and if you are a baseball fan, check out the Reds Hall of Fame. It's enjoyable. If you are a history buff, I recommend the Underground Railroad Museum. It's flawed but still good.
 
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its actually pretty similar to football: We win the B1G but get bracketed below teams that had better regular season records but didn't win the B1G.

the difference is, at the end of the day, you've got to beat them all. And, unlike football, its a winner take all situation.

We didn't play well down the stretch, but got hot in the B1G tourney. Hopefully, we are that "hot team" and not the cool one that played poorly down the stretch (and thus, be under rated).
 
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Obliviax said:
its actually pretty similar to football: We win the B1G but get bracketed below teams that had better regular season records but didn't win the B1G.

the difference is, at the end of the day, you've got to beat them all. And, unlike football, its a winner take all situation.

We didn't play well down the stretch, but got hot in the B1G tourney. Hopefully, we are that "hot team" and not the cool one that played poorly down the stretch (and thus, be under rated).
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I get it, but I also have no qualms about Minnesota being seeded higher - they finished 4th in the Pairwise and the tourney selection committee's process mimics the Pairwise minus some shifts to accommodate geography for the higher seeds. OSU defintely has a tougher 1st round draw in Minnesota-Duluth and Minnesota will have their hands full with Notre Dame. As you say, just keep winning!
 
NittanyLionFan said:
I get it, but I also have no qualms about Minnesota being seeded higher - they finished 4th in the Pairwise and the tourney selection committee's process mimics the Pairwise minus some shifts to accommodate geography for the higher seeds. OSU defintely has a tougher 1st round draw in Minnesota-Duluth and Minnesota will have their hands full with Notre Dame. As you say, just keep winning!
Click to expand...

I agree --- Minnesota hockey should be seeded higher.

The hockey tournament isn't equivalent to football. What the hockey tournament is equivalent to is the basketball tournament - everybody gets invited, although some teams had such a strong regular season they are getting an at-large bid (and a high seed) no matter what happens.

Duke won the ACC Basketball tournament but was seeded below North Carolina in the NCAA. Which was correct, similar to us being behind Minnesota in the hockey seeding.
 
Obliviax said:
its actually pretty similar to football: We win the B1G but get bracketed below teams that had better regular season records but didn't win the B1G.

the difference is, at the end of the day, you've got to beat them all. And, unlike football, its a winner take all situation.

We didn't play well down the stretch, but got hot in the B1G tourney. Hopefully, we are that "hot team" and not the cool one that played poorly down the stretch (and thus, be under rated).
Click to expand...
It's not like football at all, or even basketball. Pairwise doesn't view a conference championship game differently than a holiday tournament consolation game. The system works, but I do wish there was a human element to it.
 
michnittlion said:
With 1,000,000 Penn State alums in the area, I'll be disappointed if we don't sell out US Bank Arena!
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Penn St has a great alumni base and tremendous support, but attendance at hockey regionals is usually weak. The Frozen Four has incredible attendance.
 
A Union vs. PSU game is fun for my family, as I'm a Union alum and a daughter is a Penn State grad. Kudos to Penn State for its rapid climb (Pegula $$$) and its first NCAA hockey tournament appearance!! I know Union has beaten Penn State all 4 times they've played but this should be a good matchup for both. Union has two star players this year, both Hobey Baker finalists: Mike Vechionne and Spencer Foo. One or both may be in the NHL next year (Foo is a junior). And many remember that Shayne (Ghost) Gostisbehere led Union to the national championship 3 years ago.

Not certain why this game is on ESPN3, as with Penn State's national following it would get strong ratings.

Good luck folks!
 
wcicci said:
Penn St has a great alumni base and tremendous support, but attendance at hockey regionals is usually weak. The Frozen Four has incredible attendance.
Click to expand...

I would think the 1st round games will see an uptick in attendance thanks to the Saturday start instead of Friday. None of these teams in Cincy are local, but PSU probably has best alumni presence, so expect a good turnout.

Sunday evening final kind of sucks though for planning's sake
 
VaNtyLion said:
I would think the 1st round games will see an uptick in attendance thanks to the Saturday start instead of Friday. None of these teams in Cincy are local, but PSU probably has best alumni presence, so expect a good turnout.

Sunday evening final kind of sucks though for planning's sake
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Uptick from what? Empty arena in Ft. Wayne? The NCAA has been thru many different formats for hockey. The 16 team bracket, 4 region is the best system, but the regionals have suffered from poor attendance. East/NE regionals don't sell out, despite multiple "local" teams. And it's nonsense to say that Penn St's national following would lead to strong ratings as said in a previous post. Ratings will always be insignicant. Penn St is not moving the needle.
 
wcicci said:
Uptick from what? Empty arena in Ft. Wayne? The NCAA has been thru many different formats for hockey. The 16 team bracket, 4 region is the best system, but the regionals have suffered from poor attendance. East/NE regionals don't sell out, despite multiple "local" teams.
Click to expand...

Never said I expected a region to sell out.

To expand, I'm only alluding to a best case scenario if you're wanting to maximize attendance to best (realistic) turnout possible. Playing on Saturday should help given the other factors in play for that region.

The selection doesn't give Cincy the benefit of a "home" team (i.e., OSU should not be playing in Cincy as a #4 seed....they went through this with Providence a couple of years ago and that was just not right even though I get the need to sell tickets).

PSU has good alumni rep for a 5-6 hour radius from there. Probably best that arena could have hoped for given the teams that qualified.
 
VaNtyLion said:
Never said I expected a region to sell out.

To expand, I'm only alluding to a best case scenario if you're wanting to maximize attendance to best (realistic) turnout possible. Playing on Saturday should help given the other factors in play for that region.

The selection doesn't give Cincy the benefit of a "home" team (i.e., OSU should not be playing in Cincy as a #4 seed....they went through this with Providence a couple of years ago and that was just not right even though I get the need to sell tickets).

PSU has good alumni rep for a 5-6 hour radius from there. Probably best that arena could have hoped for given the teams that qualified.
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Does Penn State have a significantly better 5-6 hour radius is Cincy than it does in Detroit? The Joe was empty for the BIG tournament. Hockey East had 13,000 at the Garden, but you won't see huge turnouts where their teams play. I'm not trying to be critical. I hope Penn St gets great support in Cincy, but I expect attendance will be weak.
 
wcicci said:
Does Penn State have a significantly better 5-6 hour radius is Cincy than it does in Detroit? The Joe was empty for the BIG tournament. Hockey East had 13,000 at the Garden, but you won't see huge turnouts where their teams play. I'm not trying to be critical. I hope Penn St gets great support in Cincy, but I expect attendance will be weak.
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BC vs. UMASS-Lowell in Boston is a bit different than PSU vs. Wisconsin in Detroit if we're trying to compare attendance figures.

Granted, I doubt the attendance for the B1G was as good the previous two seasons when Minnesota and Michigan played back to back title games in Detroit then St. Paul.

I would hope that PSU coming off a pretty magical run in the conference tournament (sharp contrast to how we entered that weekend from a fan mentality) and playing in first ever NCAAs there's going to be more of a bump in fans wanting to make that trip.
 
wcicci said:
Does Penn State have a significantly better 5-6 hour radius is Cincy than it does in Detroit? The Joe was empty for the BIG tournament. Hockey East had 13,000 at the Garden, but you won't see huge turnouts where their teams play. I'm not trying to be critical. I hope Penn St gets great support in Cincy, but I expect attendance will be weak.
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Yes - from experience, there are absolutely more PSU alumni in SW Ohio (and Ohio as a whole) vs. SE Michigan (and Michigan as a whole).

That said, the attendance is still going to struggle on Saturday & Sunday. I'd honestly be surprised with any number over 4500.

Attendance was 5332 in Cincinnati last year for the semifinals (which included North Dakota, Northeastern, Michigan and Notre Dame), and 5172 for the North Dakota/Michigan final. That's was with:

(1, 2) two teams that are arguably "more local to Cincinnati than Penn State" in Michigan and Notre Dame,

(3) the craziest, most dedicated traveling fanbase in all of college hockey in North Dakota (those folk go EVERYWHERE),

(4) a smaller 4th school that is not close to Cincinnati (equivalent to Union College this year).

The 1, 2, and 3 dynamics don't exist this year. Penn State I'd expect with 1000 fans, maybe even 1500. Which is a good number. But none of DU, Union or Tech will have that many. Maybe 1000-1500 other fans. Doesn't add up to a huge number overall.
 
Last edited:
wcicci said:
Penn St has a great alumni base and tremendous support, but attendance at hockey regionals is usually weak. The Frozen Four has incredible attendance.
Click to expand...

Penn State does have great support. Absolutely. B1G Football Championship Game proved that out.

I was more teasing the poster who said we had "1000k alums in the area" --- I know he meant 1,000 instead of 1,000,000 but just giving him a hard time. :)
 
michnittlion said:
Yes - from experience, there are absolutely more PSU alumni in SW Ohio (and Ohio as a whole) vs. SE Michigan (and Michigan as a whole).

That said, the attendance is still going to struggle on Saturday & Sunday. I'd honestly be surprised with any number over 4500.

Attendance was 5332 in Cincinnati last year for the semifinals (which included North Dakota, Northeastern, Michigan and Notre Dame), and 5172 for the North Dakota/Michigan final. That's was with:

(1, 2) two teams that are arguably "more local to Cincinnati than Penn State" in Michigan and Notre Dame,

(3) the craziest, most dedicated traveling fanbase in all of college hockey in North Dakota (those folk go EVERYWHERE),

(4) a smaller 4th school that is not close to Cincinnati (equivalent to Union College this year).

The 1, 2, and 3 dynamics don't exist this year. Penn State I'd expect with 1000 fans, maybe even 1500. Which is a good number. But none of DU, Union or Tech will have that many. Maybe 1000-1500 other fans. Doesn't add up to a huge number overall.
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My point was Hockey East typically does well in the Garden, but regionals in Manchester, Providence, Worcester etc always have modest crowds seven when HE or ECAC teams dominate the top seeds. For whatever reason, the regional rounds don't draw well.
 
STPGopherfan said:
Bold is blasphemy, otherwise agree good post. UMD is part of the U of M family! As a college hockey fan I am glad to see you agree that it is great to see Penn State in the big dance. Although I would love to see both teams in the frozen four, I am beginning to wonder how we will fair without Lingren playing. I believe in next man up but he was really turning into something special. Hopefully he can comeback to full strength next season. Anyway, back to the Nittany Lions hockey team. I like their chances. Man do they have a lot of fight! Playing all that hockey and coming out as champions has to give them the utmost confidence.
Click to expand...

I'll agree with you to some degree, as UMD finally got their first NC. But, I can't even describe how many closet Bulldog, Gopher alums would root for them in my circles. Count me as one. I have a love/hate relationship with Lucia, and as much as I loved Woog on a personal level, he just plain choked in Frozen Fours. I was also absolutely opposed to the Minnesota only rosters that reeked of injustice for decades. So much money spills into the U from non-native Minnesotans and it's obviously our flagship state school. At least Lucia went outside of Minny, and lo and behold: back to back NCs.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely appreciate what Lucia has done, but I remain terribly suspicious of his motivational approaches and consistency. Under his tenure, has there been a better college program in terms of producing NHL talent south of Canada? No. Most of those top shelf recruits, many still playing in the NHL, never won a NC. Don't get me started on the Holy Cross choke job. In the end, I wanted Blais. But that ship has sailed.

We shall see. Usually when I go after Lucia, they deliver in the tourney: they get to the Frozen Four, or win it all. Union got away from us, but damn that Yale loss. That was critically bad coaching towards the end of the 3rd and the OT. But hey now, beat us when we're stacked, you win it all.
 
Being from BC we know a lot about the NCAA's. There are few if any student tickets and the prices are often too high to draw big crowds at the regionals. Hockey is no where near as popular as hoops even in Boston. Regional sites are in blue collar cities (Providence and Manchester) and a family of 4 is not going to pay $180 for 3 games, plus concessions to watch college teams.

Penn St is a welcome addition to college hockey in my opinion. I was hoping for a BC vs PSU matchup! Probably will happen next year.
 
Obliviax said:
its actually pretty similar to football: We win the B1G but get bracketed below teams that had better regular season records but didn't win the B1G.
Click to expand...

Minnesota did win the Big Ten regular season title, which arguably is the "real" conference champion. There's no reason that a couple of games over the course of a weekend should outweigh a 20 game conference season featuring home and away series with everyone.

Furthermore, we went 1-4 versus Minnesota this season. We hardly have a place to suggest that we deserve a better seed than them because we had a nice run last weekend.
 
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