I am now 90% converted

[Marylovesthelions]

I have been a supporter of Limegrover based on what he did with a very young OL in 2016. Last night, we watched a bunch of 1-3 star kids push out DL all over the field while our 3-5 star kids could not open running lanes against a bunch of 1-3 star DL kids from Buffalo.
I want to believe but you have to look at the results and move in a different direction. The OL coaching at Buffalo was demonstrably much better. No one gets less from more in the OL than Penn State.

 

[AWS1022]

I have been a supporter of Limegrover based on what he did with a very young OL in 2016. Last night, we watched a bunch of 1-3 star kids push out DL all over the field while our 3-5 star kids could not open running lanes against a bunch of 1-3 star DL kids from Buffalo.
I want to believe but you have to look at the results and move in a different direction. The OL coaching at Buffalo was demonstrably much better. No one gets less from more in the OL than Penn State.

We scored 45 and they scored 13....yeah, they were much better.

 

[jrd23psu]

It was definitely concerning to see our DL get zero pressure last night. Their OL stone cold stood our DL up and that was supposed to be our best unit on the whole team. We couldn't get anywhere near their QB and he picked apart our defense when he threw.

They were also able to run the ball straight at us with no difficulty and get yards.

 

[roswelllion]

We scored 45 and they scored 13....yeah, they were much better.

Yes the final score showed a blowout but Mary is right. Our "best in the country DL had I think 2 sacks and gave up 400 yards and a ton of 1st downs and 2-3 3rd and plus 10 1st downs against a freshman QB, while are largest gain on the ground was by our QB and we were forced to throw almost every play n the 2nd half. Last night IMO was NOT a good look by either line.

 

[psu1969a]

Experienced players helped Buffalo. Granted they played well, very well.

 

[AWS1022]

Yes the final score showed a blowout but Mary is right. Our "best in the country DL had I think 2 sacks and gave up 400 yards and a ton of 1st downs and 2-3 3rd and plus 10 1st downs against a freshman QB, while are largest gain on the ground was by our QB and we were forced to throw almost every play n the 2nd half. Last night IMO was NOT a good look by either line.

But they’re still trying different things and different player rotations. The first three games are only to prepare for the conference and you walk out of one of those games with a 32 point win, there’s no use getting too worried about it.

 

[Lion8286]

I have been a supporter of Limegrover based on what he did with a very young OL in 2016. Last night, we watched a bunch of 1-3 star kids push out DL all over the field while our 3-5 star kids could not open running lanes against a bunch of 1-3 star DL kids from Buffalo.
I want to believe but you have to look at the results and move in a different direction. The OL coaching at Buffalo was demonstrably much better. No one gets less from more in the OL than Penn State.

So Limegrover is responsible for PSUs offensive AND defensive lines? I did not know that. Mary, did you happen to catch the final score?

 

[tboyer]

Everybody blames the OL, and they deserve some blame, but you have to look at it wholistically.

The offense just didn't look well prepared in the 1st half. It didn't look like Ricky Rahne had any kind of game plan. It looked like he planned to just randomly try plays to see what Buffalo was doing defensively instead of attacking Buffalo. But you don't have enough plays to waste in a game like this.

When Franklin was making postgame comments about how Penn State needs to make adjustments sooner than the 2nd half -- he was speaking about Rahne.

I am of two minds about this.

1) It's distressing to see this offense looking so much like last year's offense at this time. Same offensive coordinator, same lack of cohesiveness on O, no ability to run the ball, not enough receivers involved, and the quarterback is taking a beating trying to run the ball.

2) On the other hand, everybody expected the O was going to need some work. PSU needs the D to hold the other team's score down and give the O time. And that's what happened in this game. The D was not pretty by any means but they did manage to hold these guys to 3 points in the 2nd half.

I have been a supporter of Limegrover based on what he did with a very young OL in 2016. Last night, we watched a bunch of 1-3 star kids push out DL all over the field while our 3-5 star kids could not open running lanes against a bunch of 1-3 star DL kids from Buffalo.
I want to believe but you have to look at the results and move in a different direction. The OL coaching at Buffalo was demonstrably much better. No one gets less from more in the OL than Penn State.

 

[AWS1022]

Everybody blames the OL, and they deserve some blame, but you have to look at it wholistically.

The offense just didn't look well prepared in the 1st half. It didn't look like Ricky Rahne had any kind of game plan. It looked like he planned to just randomly try plays to see what Buffalo was doing defensively instead of attacking Buffalo. But you don't have enough plays to waste in a game like this.

When Franklin was making postgame comments about how Penn State needs to make adjustments sooner than the 2nd half -- he was speaking about Rahne.

I am of two minds about this.

1) It's distressing to see this offense looking so much like last year's offense at this time. Same offensive coordinator, same lack of cohesiveness on O, no ability to run the ball, not enough receivers involved, and the quarterback is taking a beating trying to run the ball.

2) On the other hand, everybody expected the O was going to need some work. PSU needs the D to hold the other team's score down and give the O time. And that's what happened in this game. The D was not pretty by any means but they did manage to hold these guys to 3 points in the 2nd half.

I thought some of the play calls early on attempted to be creative, they just didn’t work. I also think Clifford needs to get better at reading the defense and deciding when to hand it off and when to keep it. The fake hand off slant pass across the middle is nice the first couple of times, but they went to it too often and it almost got picked off toward the end of the game.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

OL - Too many people rotating into too many positions and playing none.

DL - Mustipher and Hansard must play more. I am sorry but Windsor plays like a wild man or just disappears. Jan Johnson needs to go. Pressure off the edge will be back when there is a push in the middle.

 

[83wuzme]

PSU TOP 17:28 last night. We were bailed out by big plays and capitalizing on turnovers. Otherwise, we lose.
The OL is a weakness. 78 yards rushing, Clifford got 58 of it on one run. Of course, we only ran the ball 24 times with Clifford getting most of the reps. The OL did pass protect very well on a number of plays. Buffalo is a lot better than Idaho, but they are a big step below most of our conference foes.

 

[Grass]

It thought Clifford had happy feet in the first half. Looked like he left the pocket at the first hint of pressure and took off. Sometimes you need to stand in there and wait until your guys get open even though you feel heat.

 

[RTRMR]

I was 100% converted of Limegrover about 1/2 way thru the 2017 season.
The OL has not progressed 1 iota, with him as OL coach.
JMO, but if the Offense doesn’t show improvement over the course of this season, BOTH he and Rahne are gone!

 

[AWS1022]

Otherwise, we lose.

Oh good lord. That’s like saying if we didn’t score all those points we would have lost. How many of the six TD’s fit your criteria?

 

[Fibes]

PSU TOP 17:28 last night. We were bailed out by big plays and capitalizing on turnovers. Otherwise, we lose.
The OL is a weakness. 78 yards rushing, Clifford got 58 of it on one run. Of course, we only ran the ball 24 times with Clifford getting most of the reps. The OL did pass protect very well on a number of plays. Buffalo is a lot better than Idaho, but they are a big step below most of our conference foes.

 

[psuro]

We need to just shut down the football program. It would just be easier on all of us.

 

[00southpaw]

Lmao

 

[hereforthebeer]

Everybody blames the OL, and they deserve some blame, but you have to look at it wholistically.

The offense just didn't look well prepared in the 1st half. It didn't look like Ricky Rahne had any kind of game plan. It looked like he planned to just randomly try plays to see what Buffalo was doing defensively instead of attacking Buffalo. But you don't have enough plays to waste in a game like this.

When Franklin was making postgame comments about how Penn State needs to make adjustments sooner than the 2nd half -- he was speaking about Rahne.

I am of two minds about this.

1) It's distressing to see this offense looking so much like last year's offense at this time. Same offensive coordinator, same lack of cohesiveness on O, no ability to run the ball, not enough receivers involved, and the quarterback is taking a beating trying to run the ball.

2) On the other hand, everybody expected the O was going to need some work. PSU needs the D to hold the other team's score down and give the O time. And that's what happened in this game. The D was not pretty by any means but they did manage to hold these guys to 3 points in the 2nd half.

I give him credit for adjusting a little after halftime, but the offensive game plan going into and play calling early in this one were just crap.

Same old story with the defense bringing tons of blitzes everywhere against us, yet we try to play the game behind the line of scrimmage. RPO's, screens, swing passes and just generally a bunch of slow developing stuff that does not lend itself well to attacking that style of defense. Meanwhile, you're looking at man coverage everywhere with a single high safety, occasionally two. Everybody is wide open, but we're taking sacks because the QB has to make a read and a play fake on an RPO before he ever even looks downfield. The OL looks worse than they are because they're in a position to fail just due to numbers.

Ultimately, it's pretty hard to argue the results, but this drives me crazy. Especially when they don't deviate from the plan until halftime. Against better teams, the margin of error is so much smaller. Play the damn game on the other side of the line of scrimmage. When they're constantly bringing six, just line up, let the WRs win, and throw the ball. Take what's given instead of being stubborn or cute. Adjust faster. There is no excuse for this to take until after halftime for Rahne to figure out. It has been the same thing as nauseum for years now. When will this staff learn? Their slow adjustments within game and overall are handicapping the offense.

 

[AWS1022]

I give him credit for adjusting a little after halftime, but the offensive game plan going into and play calling early in this one were just crap.

Same old story with the defense bringing tons of blitzes everywhere against us, yet we try to play the game behind the line of scrimmage. RPO's, screens, swing passes and just generally a bunch of slow developing stuff that does not lend itself well to attacking that style of defense. Meanwhile, you're looking at man coverage everywhere with a single high safety, occasionally two. Everybody is wide open, but we're taking sacks because the QB has to make a read and a play fake on an RPO before he ever even looks downfield. The OL looks worse than they are because they're in a position to fail just due to numbers.

Ultimately, it's pretty hard to argue the results, but this drives me crazy. Especially when they don't deviate from the plan until halftime. Against better teams, the margin of error is so much smaller. Play the damn game on the other side of the line of scrimmage. When they're constantly bringing six, just line up, let the WRs win, and throw the ball. Take what's given instead of being stubborn or cute. Adjust faster. There is no excuse for this to take until after halftime for Rahne to figure out. It has been the same thing as nauseum for years now. When will this staff learn? Their slow adjustments within game and overall are handicapping the offense.

Man, they should just hire you since it’s so easy.

 

[psuro]

Man, they should just hire you since it’s so easy.

I think Barry might be a better option. Combination head coach /coordinator/ athletic director /board member.

 

[AWS1022]

I think Barry might be a better option. Combination head coach /coordinator/ athletic director /board member.

We’ve got all kinds of coaches on this board...football knowledge all over the place. They never lose their midget league games.

 

[bohucon]

I have been a supporter of Limegrover based on what he did with a very young OL in 2016. Last night, we watched a bunch of 1-3 star kids push out DL all over the field while our 3-5 star kids could not open running lanes against a bunch of 1-3 star DL kids from Buffalo.
I want to believe but you have to look at the results and move in a different direction. The OL coaching at Buffalo was demonstrably much better. No one gets less from more in the OL than Penn State.

When the opposition is putting 7 in the box and selling out with the safety to stop the run, you aren't going tot run the ball. That's why Freiermuth, Dotson and Hamler were open deep when we went to them.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

People best wake up to the fact that our DL, especially the DE position, has been exposed.

Without the JR pick/td and the quick offensive strike shortly thereafter the Buffalo coach could have stuck with his gameplan and ground us down. Once his team was down he had to throw more, thank God.

Our 4 star DE people have simply been over rated. You can run a 4.5 and bench 250 lbs twenty times, but if you can’t play toe to toe against big D1 linemen what good are you?

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

Limegrover was not helped when we lost two outstanding OL recruits to a heart condition and a car crash. We could sure use those kids now.

 

[Marylovesthelions]

Our RBs had about 2 yds per carry. Our OL just cannot move people off the ball snd create lanes. 2 yds per carry against a MAC team? Something is very wrong and the coaching has to be suspect. If the anemic blocking has us losing to all of our B1G rivals again, Franklin will make changes.

 

[BobPSU92]

We need to just shut down the football program. It would just be easier on all of us.

I second the motion.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

Our RBs has about 2 yds per carry. Our OL just cannot move people off the ball snd create lanes. 2 yds per carry against a MAC team? Something is very wrong and the coaching has to be suspect. If the anemic blocking has us losing to all of our B1G rivals again, Franklin will make changes.

If Franklin goes 1-2 or 0-3 against tOSU, MSU, and Mich Limegover and Rahne are gone. It’s that simple.

You know what? If we go 0-3 against those guys Franklin is on the hot seat. We are not paying him for those results. He know ls that.

This far into his term of office, and with several years of recruiting success, the staff has run out of excuses.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

Man, they should just hire you since it’s so easy.

What’s wrong with making observations about how slowly the staff makes in-game adjustments, and how they appear to be stubbornly sticking to what they do despite how the other team defends it? Seems like legit commentary to me.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

I second the motion.

Ok if you want to post teenage comebacks I’ll join in ..

All is well

Here is an adult approach. The team is not “elite” and is showing some severe issues. They must improve or the hoped for, let me say “expected” record, will not be achieved.

That will produce some significant questions. One will be do we have the right people at the helm? That question is asked on football boards and in businesses. When results don’t match expectations. Is it fair? Who knows? I do know that’s life, at least for us mature adults.

 

[Fibes]

Ok if you want to post teenage comebacks I’ll join in ..

All is well

Here is an adult approach. The team is not “elite” and is showing some severe issues. They must improve or the hoped for, let me say “expected” record, will not be achieved.

That will produce some significant questions. One will be do we have the right people at the helm? That question is asked on football boards and in businesses. When results don’t match expectations. Is it fair? Who knows? I do know that’s life, at least for us mature adults.

Mature?? If that’s true, we all need to “lower our expectations”.

 

[AWS1022]

What’s wrong with making observations about how slowly the staff makes in-game adjustments, and how they appear to be stubbornly sticking to what they do despite how the other team defends it? Seems like legit commentary to me.

Because the poster is talking like it’s easy and anyone can see what needs to be done...I’m quite certain if it were that easy to fix, our highly paid coaches who’s livelihoods depend on it would fix it.

 

[BobPSU92]

Because the poster is talking like it’s easy and anyone can see what needs to be done...I’m quite certain if it were that easy to fix, our highly paid coaches who’s livelihoods depend on it would fix it.

Nah, our coaches like to live on the edge and tempt fate. They also don’t like to work hard.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

Because the poster is talking like it’s easy and anyone can see what needs to be done...I’m quite certain if it were that easy to fix, our highly paid coaches who’s livelihoods depend on it would fix it.

You may be right, and perhaps I just read it differently, but he does seem to raise some valid points about why our stable of talented RBs can’t seem to gain many yards behind a highly recruited OL.

 

[Locolion]

I give him credit for adjusting a little after halftime, but the offensive game plan going into and play calling early in this one were just crap.

Same old story with the defense bringing tons of blitzes everywhere against us, yet we try to play the game behind the line of scrimmage. RPO's, screens, swing passes and just generally a bunch of slow developing stuff that does not lend itself well to attacking that style of defense. Meanwhile, you're looking at man coverage everywhere with a single high safety, occasionally two. Everybody is wide open, but we're taking sacks because the QB has to make a read and a play fake on an RPO before he ever even looks downfield. The OL looks worse than they are because they're in a position to fail just due to numbers.

Ultimately, it's pretty hard to argue the results, but this drives me crazy. Especially when they don't deviate from the plan until halftime. Against better teams, the margin of error is so much smaller. Play the damn game on the other side of the line of scrimmage. When they're constantly bringing six, just line up, let the WRs win, and throw the ball. Take what's given instead of being stubborn or cute. Adjust faster. There is no excuse for this to take until after halftime for Rahne to figure out. It has been the same thing as nauseum for years now. When will this staff learn? Their slow adjustments within game and overall are handicapping the offense.

“HereForTheBeer” is spot on. Buffalo loaded the box, attacked straight in and we kept running slow developing RPO’s (fakes, delayed handoffs, delayed passes/swings). We have to get downfield and not play behind the line of scrimmage.

 

[PaoliLion]

Yes the final score showed a blowout but Mary is right. Our "best in the country DL had I think 2 sacks and gave up 400 yards and a ton of 1st downs and 2-3 3rd and plus 10 1st downs against a freshman QB, while are largest gain on the ground was by our QB and we were forced to throw almost every play n the 2nd half. Last night IMO was NOT a good look by either line.

Agreed, we got absolutely owned on the line last night, but hey...at least “we’re long and fast”

 

[TheGLOV]

Our RBs had about 2 yds per carry. Our OL just cannot move people off the ball snd create lanes. 2 yds per carry against a MAC team? Something is very wrong and the coaching has to be suspect. If the anemic blocking has us losing to all of our B1G rivals again, Franklin will make changes.

Maybe he'll go after the ND OL coach!!

 

[AWS1022]

You may be right, and perhaps I just read it differently, but he does seem to raise some valid points about why our stable of talented RBs can’t seem to gain many yards behind a highly recruited OL.

Maybe because it was one bad game and their defensive scheme worked better than our offensive scheme. Or our coaches aren’t as smart as a message board poster...you decide.

 

[m.knox]

I have been a supporter of Limegrover based on what he did with a very young OL in 2016. Last night, we watched a bunch of 1-3 star kids push out DL all over the field while our 3-5 star kids could not open running lanes against a bunch of 1-3 star DL kids from Buffalo.
I want to believe but you have to look at the results and move in a different direction. The OL coaching at Buffalo was demonstrably much better. No one gets less from more in the OL than Penn State.

Agree on Limegrover, not certain he can take it to the next level....

This is from today's "GRADES: Buffalo" article.

OFFENSIVE LINE: None of the Nittany Lions’ position groups are going to enjoy watching the first half game tape this week, but the offensive line really might want to consider burning it. Matt Limegrover’s unit had a few positive moments in the passing game in the second half, but there’s no denying that there’s plenty of room for improvement here.

GRADE: C

 

[lein]

We scored 45 and they scored 13....yeah, they were much better.

Focus on line play, which school recruits better athletes for the OL (PSU).

Now which school had more sacks (Buffalo 3 to 1). Which school had 100 yards rushing (Buffalo). Who has the better defensive front 7 (PSU?)

I’m still skeptical of the OL but don’t know if it is coaching or some sort of issue with PSUs offensive scheme.

 

[NittanyIllinois]

I don’t know how many people will believe it, but the UB OL is as good or better than many we will face in the B10.

Now, the rest of their squad? Nah.
PSU “shoulda” picked their score on offense (and would have if their OC didn’t “gameplan” while wearing a blindfold)..... and UB didn’t have anyone who would scare you outside (on their O)

I saw a lot of 59-7 or 52-0 type predictions coming into the game, and while I expected we'd win comfortably and probably cover the spread, the one element of Buffalo's game that gave me pause was their experience on the OL -- coupled with their coaching, of course. Leipold can flat out prepare a team.

That OL was really good. Better than what we'll face next week when Pitt comes to town. But, I was a bit alarmed at our inability to get consistent pressure or stuff the run game -- even against a good line. We're going to face even better lines than that, so we'll need to find ways to get more pressure. You can't give a freshman QB that kind of time to make big throws downfield.

Our OL.......well, I'm not terribly confident. And while the blocking schemes are different in an RPO vs. whatever Wisconsin runs, we'd really benefit from being able to grind down defenses late in games with the run game. I'm having a hard time seeing that.