I am stunned by the collapse of bond prices.

KnightWhoSaysNit

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Jul 19, 2010
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The yield on the 10-year touched 3.9% earlier today while the Dow fell more than the Nasdaq. Doesn't make sense.

The dollar rose against foreign currencies, but of course is still in the crapper with domestic inflation. It seems all countries wrote death certificates for their economies.

Global Depression coming. Instability. Riots. War. Nukes.

Brilliant leadership.

Thanks Joe
 

WeR0206

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Apr 9, 2014
20,325
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2020evidence.org
The yield on the 10-year touched 3.9% earlier today while the Dow fell more than the Nasdaq. Doesn't make sense.

The dollar rose against foreign currencies, but of course is still in the crapper with domestic inflation. It seems all countries wrote death certificates for their economies.

Global Depression coming. Instability. Riots. War. Nukes.

Brilliant leadership.

Thanks Joe
This is all being done by design so the WEF can collpase western economies so they can install their NWO via the great reset. Order out of chaos. Create the problem, control the reaction, provide the solution. This is how the cabal operates.
 

Spydersgirl

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Sep 10, 2011
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I for one think it’s intentional. The only thing standing in the way for total reset is Russia… that is why the US is adamant about regime change and keeps funneling billions into Ukraine. A great deal of the $ going into oligarchs pockets though…so US will keep sending more. It’s about as dirty as it gets.
 

WeR0206

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Apr 9, 2014
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I for one think it’s intentional. The only thing standing in the way for total reset is Russia… that is why the US is adamant about regime change and keeps funneling billions into Ukraine. A great deal of the $ going into oligarchs pockets though…so US will keep sending more. It’s about as dirty as it gets.
This ^^^. Everyone gets to wet their beaks with the money. Ukraine is the deep state's corrupt little playground where they can pretty much do whatever they want. Money laundering? Yep. Human trafficking? Yep. Biolabs (associated with NIH/ecohealth alliance and bidens/metabiota) housing dangerous pathogens? Go right ahead!

What they are doing to Ukraine right now is akin to the mob burning a store down after cooking the books & committing tons of crimes there.
 

pioneerlion83

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May 29, 2001
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SouthernMD, by way of NJ and PSU
The yield on the 10-year touched 3.9% earlier today while the Dow fell more than the Nasdaq. Doesn't make sense.

The dollar rose against foreign currencies, but of course is still in the crapper with domestic inflation. It seems all countries wrote death certificates for their economies.

Global Depression coming. Instability. Riots. War. Nukes.

Brilliant leadership.

Thanks Joe
You're "Stunned"? Really? You say falling bond prices and the market falling "doesn't make sense"???? REALLY?
I thought you and your people had every ****ing thing figured out?
Please, give us another non-sensical, totally-lacking-substance, condescendingly arrogant post, because I really want you to be un-stunned.
 
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Hotshoe

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Feb 15, 2012
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You're "Stunned"? Really? You say falling bond prices and the market falling "doesn't make sense"???? REALLY?
I thought you and your people had every ****ing thing figured out?
Please, give us another non-sensical, totally-lacking-substance, condescendingly arrogant post, because I really want you to be un-stunned.
Lmao. From the side that sold their souls for Biden. Biden is below all gains from the Trump administration. Own your nonsense. Why don't you summon NJ to tell everyone about the market and Biden's approval rating! You voted for this brain dead, racist idiot.
 

Nittany Ned2

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Dec 16, 2005
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The yield on the 10-year touched 3.9% earlier today while the Dow fell more than the Nasdaq. Doesn't make sense.

The dollar rose against foreign currencies, but of course is still in the crapper with domestic inflation. It seems all countries wrote death certificates for their economies.

Global Depression coming. Instability. Riots. War. Nukes.

Brilliant leadership.

Thanks Joe

“When the Tide Goes Out, You Find Out Who is Swimming Naked” - Warren Buffet​



Did you think the era of free money was going to last forever?
 
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2lion70

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Jul 1, 2004
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The yield on the 10-year touched 3.9% earlier today while the Dow fell more than the Nasdaq. Doesn't make sense.

The dollar rose against foreign currencies, but of course is still in the crapper with domestic inflation. It seems all countries wrote death certificates for their economies.

Global Depression coming. Instability. Riots. War. Nukes.

Brilliant leadership.

Thanks Joe
A decrease in price on a bond = increase yield. That's what the Fed is looking for. With the Fed looking for anpther .75% increase in rates soon - those yields should follow and prices will drop even more.
There are a lot of other interest rates; mtg, auto, credit cards tied to those treasury yields.

WTI is down 40% ($76 - 77 /barrel) from their highs earlier this year, gas prices should follow. A lot of experts and oil futures traders are looking for WTI in low $70s or some even lower.
 

JeffClear

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Oct 15, 2017
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The yield on the 10-year touched 3.9% earlier today while the Dow fell more than the Nasdaq. Doesn't make sense.

The dollar rose against foreign currencies, but of course is still in the crapper with domestic inflation. It seems all countries wrote death certificates for their economies.

Global Depression coming. Instability. Riots. War. Nukes.

Brilliant leadership.

Thanks Joe
The bond market usually does decline when interest rates increase, as does the stock market.
Higher interest rates also causes the dollar to strengthen because investors buy more dollars so they can buy US bonds to take advantage of higher yields.
 

m.knox

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Aug 20, 2003
110,305
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You're "Stunned"? Really? You say falling bond prices and the market falling "doesn't make sense"???? REALLY?
I thought you and your people had every ****ing thing figured out?
Please, give us another non-sensical, totally-lacking-substance, condescendingly arrogant post, because I really want you to be un-stunned.

Why does your party hate you for going to Church?
 

KnightWhoSaysNit

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Jul 19, 2010
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You're "Stunned"? Really? You say falling bond prices and the market falling "doesn't make sense"???? REALLY?
I thought you and your people had every ****ing thing figured out?
Please, give us another non-sensical, totally-lacking-substance, condescendingly arrogant post, because I really want you to be un-stunned.

I raised this in the unlikely chance that someone on this board would have something constructive to say about what has been an unprecedented move. Enter you, a lefty, with the typical attempt to be disruptive. You are probably a member of Antifa or BLM or some other group bent on chaos.

Like so many other lefties here you have a reading comprehension problem. So let me add what I was thinking to clarify for you:
  • I am stunned that yields are this high given that these values are unsustainable without cuts in government spending, and I expect no capacity for this government to cut spending. Remember the ten year is what the market expects over a decade. Here the Congress is an enemy of the Federal Reserve's inflation mandate. Congressional spending will tank the private sector economy.
  • BOTH interest rates and falling earnings will tank stocks. Traders know this, hence all the Shorts and Puts.
  • What doesn't make sense to me is to see an index that is more interest rate sensitive -- the NASDAQ -- fall less than a more stable index -- the DOW. That should reverse unless there is a large contingent of investors that do not believe these interest rates will hold.
As for being condescending, the mess created by this government and its central bank is deserving of criticism. When the dust settles there will be calls to eliminate the Fed. It will be shown that they did nothing but cause damage on top of reckless spending on the fiscal side.

The Federal Reserve has been seriously corrupting free market enterprise since 2008. It stepped in to bail out really bad government and banking policies that came beforehand. Both are culpable.

Study what happened in 1968 through the tax cuts of the early 80s if you want to preserve your savings. It's the same story except this time there is a massive debt headwind. Some day you may thank me.
 

KnightWhoSaysNit

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Jul 19, 2010
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The bond market usually does decline when interest rates increase, as does the stock market.
Higher interest rates also causes the dollar to strengthen because investors buy more dollars so they can buy US bonds to take advantage of higher yields.

Well that most people knew beforehand. What is more difficult to understand are the magnitudes relative to debt servicing on public borrowing that continues to expand.
 

junior1

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May 29, 2001
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The yield on the 10-year touched 3.9% earlier today while the Dow fell more than the Nasdaq. Doesn't make sense.

The dollar rose against foreign currencies, but of course is still in the crapper with domestic inflation. It seems all countries wrote death certificates for their economies.

Global Depression coming. Instability. Riots. War. Nukes.

Brilliant leadership.

Thanks Joe
There are lots of "experts" who believe that the FED doesn't really know what they're doing and that they're deceiving the public on the way down the rabbit hole.
The FED seems to believe that simply raising the funds rate will cure inflation. One person today highlighted that while higher rates will have the impact of demand destruction, at the same time supply destruction is going along for the ride. For example, higher rates impact the housing market. But at the same time we need more housing. The rates make the cost of new housing construction even higher, thereby maintaining the housing shortage, keeping prices and rents high. Remember housing is one of the elements in the CPI.
So far, I haven't heard one person in the business/investing community say that they think the FED can orchestrate a soft landing. These people think the FED is directing the economy into a recession first qtr of 2023.
Those 4% bonds might be a good place to hide.
 
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pioneerlion83

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May 29, 2001
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SouthernMD, by way of NJ and PSU
Lmao. From the side that sold their souls for Biden. Biden is below all gains from the Trump administration. Own your nonsense. Why don't you summon NJ to tell everyone about the market and Biden's approval rating! You voted for this brain dead, racist idiot.
Blah blah blah.
Yeah, you People have all the ****ing answers - more tax cuts, less worker empowerment, and shit on everyone that doesn't look or act like you out on the horse farm. How's your Maga-boi Brett Favre doing with his tweets for Mississippi welfare $$?
 
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m.knox

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Aug 20, 2003
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Blah blah blah.
Yeah, you People have all the ****ing answers - more tax cuts, less worker empowerment, and shit on everyone that doesn't look or act like you out on the horse farm. How's your Maga-boi Brett Favre doing with his tweets for Mississippi welfare $$?

Tax cuts are fantastic.

Meanwhile, your party hates you.
 

pioneerlion83

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
15,441
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SouthernMD, by way of NJ and PSU
I raised this in the unlikely chance that someone on this board would have something constructive to say about what has been an unprecedented move. Enter you, a lefty, with the typical attempt to be disruptive. You are probably a member of Antifa or BLM or some other group bent on chaos.

Like so many other lefties here you have a reading comprehension problem. So let me add what I was thinking to clarify for you:
  • I am stunned that yields are this high given that these values are unsustainable without cuts in government spending, and I expect no capacity for this government to cut spending. Remember the ten year is what the market expects over a decade. Here the Congress is an enemy of the Federal Reserve's inflation mandate. Congressional spending will tank the private sector economy.
  • BOTH interest rates and falling earnings will tank stocks. Traders know this, hence all the Shorts and Puts.
  • What doesn't make sense to me is to see an index that is more interest rate sensitive -- the NASDAQ -- fall less than a more stable index -- the DOW. That should reverse unless there is a large contingent of investors that do not believe these interest rates will hold.
As for being condescending, the mess created by this government and its central bank is deserving of criticism. When the dust settles there will be calls to eliminate the Fed. It will be shown that they did nothing but cause damage on top of reckless spending on the fiscal side.

The Federal Reserve has been seriously corrupting free market enterprise since 2008. It stepped in to bail out really bad government and banking policies that came beforehand. Both are culpable.

Study what happened in 1968 through the tax cuts of the early 80s if you want to preserve your savings. It's the same story except this time there is a massive debt headwind. Some day you may thank me.
But you lecture me so ****ing well, I was looking to you for answers!!!
 

m.knox

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Aug 20, 2003
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Not yet tonight. Just having dinner right now.
I do need bourbon to make sense and get through the stuff you and @Hotshoe and @KnightWhoSaysNit post here...along with other Hitler Youth.

Just finished up some leftover pork tenderloin I smoked over the weekend...... Delicious.

Hitler was a democratic socialist just like you.

Did you hear that the Airforce proposed banning the words of "mom" and "dad"? That's called Newspeak according to Orwell. Totalitarian behavior from the left. Much like Hitler would.
 
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pioneerlion83

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SouthernMD, by way of NJ and PSU
Just finished up some leftover pork tenderloin I smoked over the weekend...... Delicious.

Hitler was a democratic socialist just like you.

Did you hear that the Airforce proposed banning the words of "mom" and "dad"? That's called Newspeak according to Orwell. Totalitarian behavior from the left. Much like Hitler would.
Hitler was a Nazi. Here, get educated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

I mean, Hitler was on your Boi's team, and very upset that Trump lost...
 
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m.knox

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Bank of England raising interest rates even higher than planned due to the tax cuts being put in place by Truss, to try to beat down inflation.

America is raising interest rates. Haven't you seen what Joe Biden has accomplished?

 
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KnightWhoSaysNit

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Hitler was a Nazi. Here, get educated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

I mean, Hitler was on your Boi's team, and very upset that Trump lost...

And one more thing about your stupid insertion of Hitler into my thread.

The vast majority of conservatives are not fascists. If anything the current administration is behaving like a group of fascists as they attack their political enemies within the citizenry instead of working to improve the country while they are in office.

Imagine Trump giving a speech like the one Biden gave a few weeks ago. Imagine Trump saying that all people who demonstrated and destroyed property during 2020 are enemies of the state. Imagine Trump unleashing henchmen to track them down and jail them without cause or a speedy trial. Imagine a Republican Congress then orchestrating a show-trial producing only evidence against these demonstrators without any allowance for cross examination.

Would you be angry? Would you think that those republicans were a threat to democracy, that they are fascists?

Please refrain from leaving your trash in my threads. I care about the environment.
 

m.knox

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@pioneerlion83 and I recognize that people can have different backgrounds and still get along. It’s you folks that don’t get that.

You can get along by telling him he has little voices in his head and abortion is good..............

lol....

BTW, he's the tolerant one. The one with religion. You are a f'ing hardened and rigid ideologue.
 

PaoliLion

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Nov 2, 2003
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You can get along by telling him he has little voices in his head and abortion is good..............

lol....

BTW, he's the tolerant one. The one with religion. You are a f'ing hardened and rigid ideologue.

Just because I hate right wing extremists, doesn’t mean I’m intolerant. It’s perfectly appropriate to hate you folks
 

m.knox

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Just because I hate right wing extremists, doesn’t mean I’m intolerant. It’s perfectly appropriate to hate you folks

You are intolerant. He is far less intolerant. His heart is filled with love and understanding from religion. Yours is full of hate and contempt because you are without it.
 

PaoliLion

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You are intolerant. He is far less intolerant. His heart is filled with love and understanding from religion. Yours is full of hate and contempt because you are without it.

I’m very intolerant to intolerant folks, like yourself. I have no love and no understanding of you douchebags. I have 100% contempt for you motherfvckers. If you died tomorrow, I would quite literally open a bottle of wine.

Is that clear enough for you?
 

m.knox

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I’m very intolerant to intolerant folks, like yourself. I have no love and no understanding of you douchebags. I have 100% contempt for you motherfvckers. If you died tomorrow, I would quite literally open a bottle of wine.

Is that clear enough for you?

I think you are a giant piece of shit. A traitor.

Is that clear enough for you?

But that wasn't the topic. The topic was your hatred for religion. Even though I am without religion, I don't hate those that have it in their lives. You should study @pioneerlion83 . He can teach you something about being a decent human being.
 
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KnightWhoSaysNit

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You are intolerant. He is far less intolerant. His heart is filled with love and understanding from religion. Yours is full of hate and contempt because you are without it.

A religious person has hate as well -- of what some people do and say. They may hate the ignorance they see.

What we tend to see among the Dems here is very different. They hate people who get in the way of their leftwing agenda.

What's sad and alarming is that there are folks way to the left who think they are in the middle. We know who they are. Anyone that thinks our federal government isn't big enough already, with massive deficits and inflation, is certainly not in the middle. This country existed very well for a long time without such centralization of finance and control.
 
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pioneerlion83

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SouthernMD, by way of NJ and PSU
And one more thing about your stupid insertion of Hitler into my thread.

The vast majority of conservatives are not fascists. If anything the current administration is behaving like a group of fascists as they attack their political enemies within the citizenry instead of working to improve the country while they are in office.

Imagine Trump giving a speech like the one Biden gave a few weeks ago. Imagine Trump saying that all people who demonstrated and destroyed property during 2020 are enemies of the state. Imagine Trump unleashing henchmen to track them down and jail them without cause or a speedy trial. Imagine a Republican Congress then orchestrating a show-trial producing only evidence against these demonstrators without any allowance for cross examination.

Would you be angry? Would you think that those republicans were a threat to democracy, that they are fascists?

Please refrain from leaving your trash in my threads. I care about the environment.
Hey! Your boi - my Boy - @m.knox hit me with TWO Hitler references...to wit:
Just finished up some leftover pork tenderloin I smoked over the weekend...... Delicious.

Hitler was a democratic socialist just like you.

Did you hear that the Airforce proposed banning the words of "mom" and "dad"? That's called Newspeak according to Orwell. Totalitarian behavior from the left. Much like Hitler would.
I just responded in defense of the facts about Hitler being a National Socialist, and tried to inject a bit of levity and a shot at Trump - which is all too easy to do.

You want to lecture me about leaving trash in your threads???? Seriously???? Then start your cleanup with your own people, and his/their posts.
 

PaoliLion

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Nov 2, 2003
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I think you are a giant piece of shit. A traitor.

Is that clear enough for you?

But that wasn't the topic. The topic was your hatred for religion. Even though I am without religion, I don't hate those that have it in their lives. You should study @pioneerlion83 . He can teach you something about being a decent human being.

Sounds like you got the message - carry on. You folks don’t deserve my good graces.
 

KnightWhoSaysNit

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Jul 19, 2010
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More of the same today. 10-year may be above 4% by the end of the day.

As shorter term interest rates are even higher, five years from now it's hard to grasp a government that will be solvent and pay well over a trillion in interest. Government spending, on a relative basis, can go no where but down. If it doesn't we crash.

I suppose the ditching of bonds is a no-confidence vote. That said, real TIPS yields are now in the 1-2% range, something I thought I would never see. If you don't want to risk money in equities, that's a place to go for a small return against the CPI.

This is really beginning to look like the 1970s all over again. With the hurricane we've got a boost in oil prices even as we head into recession. Energy is not a bad place to hedge equities during this time of correlated stock and bond prices.

Safest place is of course short term treasuries and I-bonds. If you have a good Stable Value Fund in your 401K that has been a good place to be. For Contributory IRA holders I am at a loss to come up with something public for safety better than TIPS or a money market. Suggestions? I see nothing that doesn't risk capital loss.

If you are like me you cannot afford to take stock/bond losses after seeing permanent losses to pension income.
 
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