I am stunned by the collapse of bond prices.

m.knox

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 20, 2003
110,305
65,676
1
I disagree since it was Trump and the GOP that killed it.

I disagree since democrats value themselves more when they spend other peoples money. Use your eyes Jeff. Look at what Biden administration has spent so far, and then think about what the left really wanted.

Or are you going to blame Biden's spending on Trump??
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ski

KnightWhoSaysNit

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2010
9,960
11,096
1
I disagree since democrats value themselves more when they spend other peoples money. Use your eyes Jeff. Look at what Biden administration has spent so far, and then think about what the left really wanted.

Or are you going to blame Biden's spending on Trump??

It amazes me that Dems can blame their political opponents for things they do in spades. And yet it passes right over the minds of lefties who post here. Just goes to show how much they have been manipulated by the MSM. This is a cumulative effect over many years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ski

m.knox

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 20, 2003
110,305
65,676
1
It amazes me that Dems can blame their political opponents for things they do in spades. And yet it passes right over the minds of lefties who post here. Just goes to show how much they have been manipulated by the MSM. This is a cumulative effect over many years.

They are so used to dem politicians like Pelosi and Schiff saying just such ridiculous things that they do the very same.

It's like Ned2 claiming Trump is an authoritarian when you have the Biden administration "advising" the military to use non binary terms inside of mom or dad......
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ski

PSUEngineer89

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2021
6,944
11,976
1
It amazes me that Dems can blame their political opponents for things they do in spades. And yet it passes right over the minds of lefties who post here. Just goes to show how much they have been manipulated by the MSM. This is a cumulative effect over many years.
Not one smart liberal on this board.

Bunch of midwits? Sure.

Truly smart? Hahahaha
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ski

bdgan

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2008
63,347
40,883
1
The yield on the 10-year touched 3.9% earlier today while the Dow fell more than the Nasdaq. Doesn't make sense.

The dollar rose against foreign currencies, but of course is still in the crapper with domestic inflation. It seems all countries wrote death certificates for their economies.

Global Depression coming. Instability. Riots. War. Nukes.

Brilliant leadership.

Thanks Joe
I'm stunned at the collapse of everything since democrats took control.

Crime
The border
Inflation
The economy
Energy
Schools / test scores
The stock market
International affairs
Supply chain
Productivity
Unity
 

KnightWhoSaysNit

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2010
9,960
11,096
1
Stocks were down considerably today without much of a rise in bond yields. Could be a sign that the time for bonds is coming soon.
 

bdgan

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2008
63,347
40,883
1
I’m very intolerant to intolerant folks, like yourself. I have no love and no understanding of you douchebags. I have 100% contempt for you motherfvckers. If you died tomorrow, I would quite literally open a bottle of wine.

Is that clear enough for you?
You're a disgusting person Paoli.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Ski

JeffClear

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2017
10,381
4,181
1
I disagree since democrats value themselves more when they spend other peoples money. Use your eyes Jeff. Look at what Biden administration has spent so far, and then think about what the left really wanted.

Or are you going to blame Biden's spending on Trump??
Well Trump certainly didn't have any issue with removing the sequester and I don't believe he ever admitted that was a mistake.
The best chance for resuming the sequester is divided government where one party has the WH and the other has congress.
The problem is Trump endorsed candidates can't be trusted.
I'm still hoping the GOP abandons Trump and a new, more rational and sane group of republicans step forward and takes over the party.
 

m.knox

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 20, 2003
110,305
65,676
1
Well Trump certainly didn't have any issue with removing the sequester and I don't believe he ever admitted that was a mistake.
The best chance for resuming the sequester is divided government where one party has the WH and the other has congress.
The problem is Trump endorsed candidates can't be trusted.
I'm still hoping the GOP abandons Trump and a new, more rational and sane group of republicans step forward and takes over the party.

Well democrats certainly didn't have any issue with removing the sequester as we have witnessed first hand how much democrats LOVE gubmint spending. It's HAPPINESS to them. Didn't you see them celebrate the inflation increase act with James Taylor playing the guitar? They love government spending so much that they threw a f'ing PARTY.

You should be fretting over your own party, not the good guys.
 

JeffClear

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2017
10,381
4,181
1

Trusted to do what?
[/QUOTE]
Trusted to run the country. Trump's behavior as president was bad enough but his actions after the election is so objectionable that anyone who isn't completely appalled by his behavior cannot be trusted.
 

bdgan

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2008
63,347
40,883
1
Trusted to do what?
Trusted to run the country. Trump's behavior as president was bad enough but his actions after the election is so objectionable that anyone who isn't completely appalled by his behavior cannot be trusted.
[/QUOTE]
You can never talk objectively about policies and results, can you?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ski

JeffClear

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2017
10,381
4,181
1
Well democrats certainly didn't have any issue with removing the sequester as we have witnessed first hand how much democrats LOVE gubmint spending. It's HAPPINESS to them. Didn't you see them celebrate the inflation increase act with James Taylor playing the guitar? They love government spending so much that they threw a f'ing PARTY.

You should be fretting over your own party, not the good guys.
I'm a Republican and as much as Biden spent, the debt to gdp ratio is lower now than when Trump left office.
 

JeffClear

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2017
10,381
4,181
1
Trusted to run the country. Trump's behavior as president was bad enough but his actions after the election is so objectionable that anyone who isn't completely appalled by his behavior cannot be trusted.
You can never talk objectively about policies and results, can you?
[/QUOTE]
I speak the truth, Trump's behavior was unprecedented and completely out of line.
And any politician who supports Trump is either so craven in their desire for power that they are willing to hold their nose and genuflect to Trump or they are complete nutcases and actually believe Trump's lies.
 

KnightWhoSaysNit

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2010
9,960
11,096
1
I speak the truth, Trump's behavior was unprecedented and completely out of line.
And any politician who supports Trump is either so craven in their desire for power that they are willing to hold their nose and genuflect to Trump or they are complete nutcases and actually believe Trump's lies.

Wow you just can't get past Trump. That guy truly owns every thought in your head. If I was in your state I might get myself checked in -- electroshock therapy or something.
 

junior1

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
7,314
8,232
1
I'm a Republican and as much as Biden spent, the debt to gdp ratio is lower now than when Trump left office.
ok, I'm not going to look at the numbers because obviously you have already. But, if you're comparing gdp numbers and debt in 2020 when we shut down the economy and spent trillions to combat the virus to today when the economy has been opened for more than a year, that's not even close to being a reasonable comparison
 

KnightWhoSaysNit

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2010
9,960
11,096
1
ok, I'm not going to look at the numbers because obviously you have already. But, if you're comparing gdp numbers and debt in 2020 when we shut down the economy and spent trillions to combat the virus to today when the economy has been opened for more than a year, that's not even close to being a reasonable comparison

And what they always omit is that it was the Democrats pushing to shut down the economy, making it necessary to do a massive money-print. Democrats in the CDC deceived Trump, turning "flatten the curve" into prevention of exposure at any cost. It was Democrats running schools trying to keep them shut down, making it difficult for working parents. Democrats were behind all sorts of expensive policies designed to bring down the Trump Administration, not the least of which was rioting in our cities while those "demonstrators" were paid to stay home to prevent exposure.

I get disgusted when democrats link 2020 to the entire Trump legacy. What happened that year was totally inconsistent with Trumps' pro-business, pro-growth policies. Democrats always accuse their political rivals of the harmful things they are actually doing in spades.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bdgan

bdgan

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2008
63,347
40,883
1
ok, I'm not going to look at the numbers because obviously you have already. But, if you're comparing gdp numbers and debt in 2020 when we shut down the economy and spent trillions to combat the virus to today when the economy has been opened for more than a year, that's not even close to being a reasonable comparison
The same debt is there today and more. But yes, democratic cities were still shut down so of course the debt to GDP ratio was artificially high in 2020.

The debt to gdp ratio was 55 when W became president and it was 73 when he left office. A lot of that was the Iraq war. It grew to 104 under Obama partly due to Afghanistan and Obamacare. After 3 1/4 years Trump's number was "only" 107. Then it spiked to 135 when gdp was halted and covid spending hit. It dropped to 126 by the time Trump left office due to reopening the economy. Now it's 122 due to additional reopening during the last year and a half.

Bottom line: Measuring Trump's performance from a period of shutdowns and covid spending is disingenuous.
 

bdgan

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2008
63,347
40,883
1
Wow you just can't get past Trump. That guy truly owns every thought in your head. If I was in your state I might get myself checked in -- electroshock therapy or something.
I accept that Jeff is appalled by what happened on January 6th. Almost all of us are. The only question is the objectivity of hearings.

The problem is Jeff acted the same way about the Russia hoax, the Ukraine call, etc. He despises everything about Trump and won't let it go. He ignores that Russia was a Democrat lie and that Hunter is being ignored.

He refuses to discuss policies and instead focuses on Trump.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ski

PaoliLion

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2003
13,788
6,919
1
I disagree since democrats value themselves more when they spend other peoples money. Use your eyes Jeff. Look at what Biden administration has spent so far, and then think about what the left really wanted.

Or are you going to blame Biden's spending on Trump??

“Spend other people’s money”

most of the national debt is from Republicans. That’s well documented.
 

Catch50

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2003
36,863
2,408
1
I'm stunned at the collapse of everything since democrats took control.

Crime
The border
Inflation
The economy
Energy
Schools / test scores
The stock market
International affairs
Supply chain
Productivity
Unity
Only an idiot thinks the guy who had the office for four years prior didn't have anything to do with these.
Trump spent more time whining.
 

m.knox

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 20, 2003
110,305
65,676
1
“Spend other people’s money”

most of the national debt is from Republicans. That’s well documented.

Most of the spending is from democrats. That's well documented.

For democrats, gubmint spending is happiness..... That's how idiotic you phucktards are.
 

PaoliLion

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2003
13,788
6,919
1
Most of the spending is from democrats. That's well documented.

For democrats, gubmint spending is happiness..... That's how idiotic you phucktards are.

That’s what dumb people think. It’s always been the tax cuts. Your poor ass is subsidized big time.
 

KnightWhoSaysNit

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2010
9,960
11,096
1
So, getting back to bond yields, is 4% the point that something breaks? Seems like the UK went into emergency reverse mode when they hit 4.5% and the pound fell below 1.1 to the dollar.

Fox Business mentioned the Lehman Brothers collapse and that something similar could be about to break. The speed of this QT is unprecedented just as the size of the year over year money expansion was unprecedented. Somebody has to get pinched in this.
 

rutgersdave

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2004
755
395
1
I vote for democrats if the Republican candidate is a Trumper.
Oz is a good example of this, I am not voting for a Trumper even if it means voting for a guy who lives in his parents' basement.
And the GOP seems more concerned with bathroom usage and library books than the debt.
And Trump's record on the debt is poor.
And I'm not sure what question you are asking?

The most prominent candidate Trump has backed in the Wolverine State, conservative commentator and gubernatorial nominee Tudor Dixon, has lagged incumbent Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D) by double digits in recent polls.

Not so long ago, Whitmer was a top Republican target. Conservatives believed they could capitalize on discontent with her handling of the COVID-19 pandemic, in particular.


Instead, the GOP has a candidate who hews to a hard-line anti-abortion position, meanders on whether the 2020 election was legitimate, and is suffering from a massive fundraising disadvantage.

When Trump endorsed Dixon in the GOP primary in late July, he promised she was a “Conservative Warrior” who was “ready to take on one of the worst Governors in the nation.”

But even some Republicans don’t think a Trump rally is going to turn things around for Dixon, who trailed Whitmer by 16 points in a poll last week from the Detroit Free Press.

“Here is the problem with these events: What does Trump do? He talks about the candidate he is allegedly there to support for about 60 seconds, he may or may not insult the candidate — as he did with J.D. Vance — and then the rest of it is the Trump Grievance Tour,” said Doug Heye, a former communications director for the Republican National Committee.
 

JeffClear

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2017
10,381
4,181
1
But, up is up, right.
pre tax cut the dem argument was that tax revenues would decline. Clearly that was wrong
Tax revenues declined from what they would have been if taxes had remained the same.
And Trump said his tax cuts/spending plan would decrease the deficit, which clearly didn't happen.
Trump actually increased the deficit every year he was in office both in total dollars and the debt to GDP ratio.
Compare that to Obama who left with a lower debt to GDP ratio than when he took office.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PaoliLion

Obliviax

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 21, 2001
110,544
62,492
1
Tax revenues declined from what they would have been if taxes had remained the same.
And Trump said his tax cuts/spending plan would decrease the deficit, which clearly didn't happen.
Trump actually increased the deficit every year he was in office both in total dollars and the debt to GDP ratio.
Compare that to Obama who left with a lower debt to GDP ratio than when he took office.
yeah, once the pandemic hit. Your position isn't tenable. All revenues would have been down when the pandemic hit, it had nothing to do with Trump's policies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ski

JeffClear

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2017
10,381
4,181
1
yeah, once the pandemic hit. Your position isn't tenable. All revenues would have been down when the pandemic hit, it had nothing to do with Trump's policies.
Even before the pandemic, Trump was increasing the deficit. During the pandemic it skyrocketed.

When Obama left office the annual deficit was 3.4 percent of GDP. After Trump's first year it was 3.8 percent, in 2019 it was 4.6 percent. Once the pandemic hit it went to 14.9 percent in 2020 and 16.7 percent in 2021.

Remember this is just annual debt to gdp, total debt to GDP is higher than 100 percent.