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I guess I’ll never understand basketball foul calling....

How about a defender standing with his arms straight up in the air and the offensive player jumps into him....a foul is called on the defender almost every time. The one that pisses me off the most is when an offensive player goes to the basket completely out of control and tries to draw a foul out of desperation and the ref calls it....they should not bail out poor offense by calling a foul. Most of my technicals as a coach were those situations.
 
How about a defender standing with his arms straight up in the air and the offensive player jumps into him....a foul is called on the defender almost every time. The one that pisses me off the most is when an offensive player goes to the basket completely out of control and tries to draw a foul out of desperation and the ref calls it....they should not bail out poor offense by calling a foul. Most of my technicals as a coach were those situations.

Not sure if you have kids or not, or if you officiate, but when the kid comes in out of control driving to the hoop with the intention of throwing himself into a defender and just falling to the floor and you call nothing, the crowd goes ballistic. I try to never call that (don't reward out of control play/spirit of the rule type stuff) but other guys see someone hit the floor and it's basically automatic. One benefit this year, limited/no fans, so you can just call the game and players can just play the game and the idiots can shout at home watching on their computers.
 
Not sure if you have kids or not, or if you officiate, but when the kid comes in out of control driving to the hoop with the intention of throwing himself into a defender and just falling to the floor and you call nothing, the crowd goes ballistic. I try to never call that (don't reward out of control play/spirit of the rule type stuff) but other guys see someone hit the floor and it's basically automatic. One benefit this year, limited/no fans, so you can just call the game and players can just play the game and the idiots can shout at home watching on their computers.
I have kids and I used to officiate, so I know what you’re saying. There are too many “automatic” situations when it comes to fouls being called. Defending a player on a fast break is another one of those situations.
 
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I have a hard time with this as well. I'll watch an opposing Big 10 player not even get touched and get the call while the very next time down the floor Harrar has people draped on him with no call. Maybe it's partly my bias for Penn State but basketball calls seem to be so subjective. They may call the same thing differently within a span of 30 seconds.
 
I coached high school basketball for ten years and I loved the preseason rules interpretation meetings. The conference rules specialist used to always say "If its a foul for 31 minutes and 50 seconds.... it's a foul the last ten seconds." It's so true though. How many times do you hear people say to let the players decide the game? The rule book doesn't have a special section for foul calls the last ten seconds.
 
Officiated IHSA (Illinois High School Association) baseball and basketball many many years ago.

Baseball was fun.....but basketball was frustrating because there were nights that my officiating partner was just awful, absolutely awful. (Of course, he probably thought the same about me.🤷🏻‍♂️)
 
Officiated IHSA (Illinois High School Association) baseball and basketball many many years ago.

Baseball was fun.....but basketball was frustrating because there were nights that my officiating partner was just awful, absolutely awful. (Of course, he probably thought the same about me.🤷🏻‍♂️)
As a coach you always feel for the guy who has to work with a partner, or in the case of the Mid-Penn sometimes "partners" who just aren't very strong officials. It's a slippery slope because one guy has to carry the other two, then gets an ear full from fans because he's the only one blowing his whistle.

Moral of the story... We need more people with basketball knowledge and experience to become officials!
 
I’ve never officiated any serious basketball, we ref’d ourselves in high school - but I have to say I’m left scratching my head a lot too.

I’ve heard “contact that creates an advantage” is a foul but then I watch defenders with established positions get run over charged with a foul and then I’ve seen defenders run right into the guy with the ball and it’s an offensive foul.

And watching Penn State, I’m pleasantly surprised when it seems that the game is being fairly officiated. I know our team is a bit small and sometimes that leads to more fouls but there’s been a few games this year where it seemed our guys were getting whistled for simply dribbling the ball too close to a defender.
 
Officiated IHSA (Illinois High School Association) baseball and basketball many many years ago.

Baseball was fun.....but basketball was frustrating because there were nights that my officiating partner was just awful, absolutely awful. (Of course, he probably thought the same about me.🤷🏻‍♂️)
Maybe, just maybe you shouldn’t have asked him to officiate your alone time with the wife. So which call was over the top, the double dribble, the charging (I mean she was your wife!), the three second violation, or the over the back, which per se isn’t a violation? 🤡🤡🤡

On a serious note, SCC was looking pretty good today on my run.
 
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How about a defender standing with his arms straight up in the air and the offensive player jumps into him....a foul is called on the defender almost every time. The one that pisses me off the most is when an offensive player goes to the basket completely out of control and tries to draw a foul out of desperation and the ref calls it....they should not bail out poor offense by calling a foul. Most of my technicals as a coach were those situations.



I think you just fouled James Harden in this post.
 
Officiated IHSA (Illinois High School Association) baseball and basketball many many years ago.

Baseball was fun.....but basketball was frustrating because there were nights that my officiating partner was just awful, absolutely awful. (Of course, he probably thought the same about me.🤷🏻‍♂️)

There are nights when your 'posts' are good.

There are nights when your 'posts' are awful.

;) ;) ;)
 
Maybe, just maybe you shouldn’t have asked him to officiate your alone time with the wife. So which call was over the top, the double dribble, the charging (I mean she was your wife!), the three second violation, or the over the back, which per se isn’t a violation? 🤡🤡🤡

On a serious note, SCC was looking pretty good today on my run.
 
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Ha - it was their alone time with my wife that had me blowing the whistle!

Mike, hopefully you are back to 100% after your injury. We’re long overdue (my fault) for getting together over at SCC, it will happen very early this golf season, I promise! 🍻🍻🍻
 
Officiated IHSA (Illinois High School Association) baseball and basketball many many years ago.

Baseball was fun.....but basketball was frustrating because there were nights that my officiating partner was just awful, absolutely awful. (Of course, he probably thought the same about me.🤷🏻‍♂️)
I've coached high school basketball for years and for about half of the time I've done it my teams were small and quick where we went with basically four guards and pressed for most of the game. There was nothing worse then getting your officials report that day and seeing that you had two old guys that can't get up and down the floor as your officials.
 
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As a coach you always feel for the guy who has to work with a partner, or in the case of the Mid-Penn sometimes "partners" who just aren't very strong officials. It's a slippery slope because one guy has to carry the other two, then gets an ear full from fans because he's the only one blowing his whistle.

Moral of the story... We need more people with basketball knowledge and experience to become officials!

Unfortunately, due to the treatment of officials by coaches and fans, people who could do it don’t want to get involved. I’ve done it for 16 years at the HS level and my friends still think I’m crazy. There have been times both on the court and on the baseball field where I’ll simply say to a fan, ‘If you want to switch spots, we can and then I’ll ride you like Secretariat in the Derby.’ That often extinguishes it...unless they don’t know who Secretariat was.

As officials, we’re taught to referee the defense. Our pregame meetings always carry this reminder. So we don’t really pay attention to the out of control drive to the basket with the wild fall to the floor. If we’re paying attention to the defense as we should, if there’s no contact to cause that fall, no whistle. Fans and coaches only see the crash. I do think that the block/charge at the college level gives too much credit to the defender. It’s a tough call in real time but I feel like some officials like to show off their charge call and thus rewarding the defender for a late slide over.
 
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Unfortunately, due to the treatment of officials by coaches and fans, people who could do it don’t want to get involved. I’ve done it for 16 years at the HS level and my friends still think I’m crazy. There have been times both on the court and on the baseball field where I’ll simply say to a fan, ‘If you want to switch spots, we can and then I’ll ride you like Secretariat in the Derby.’ That often extinguishes it...unless they don’t know who Secretariat was.

As officials, we’re taught to referee the defense. Our pregame meetings always carry this reminder. So we don’t really pay attention to the out of control drive to the basket with the wild fall to the floor. If we’re paying attention to the defense as we should, if there’s no contact to cause that fall, no whistle. Fans and coaches only see the crash. I do think that the block/charge at the college level gives too much credit to the defender. It’s a tough call in real time but I feel like some officials like to show off their charge call and thus rewarding the defender for a late slide over.

"...we’re taught to referee the defense." Are you ignorant of the rules or just the worst official that I have ever heard.
 
Unfortunately, due to the treatment of officials by coaches and fans, people who could do it don’t want to get involved. I’ve done it for 16 years at the HS level and my friends still think I’m crazy. There have been times both on the court and on the baseball field where I’ll simply say to a fan, ‘If you want to switch spots, we can and then I’ll ride you like Secretariat in the Derby.’ That often extinguishes it...unless they don’t know who Secretariat was.

As officials, we’re taught to referee the defense. Our pregame meetings always carry this reminder. So we don’t really pay attention to the out of control drive to the basket with the wild fall to the floor. If we’re paying attention to the defense as we should, if there’s no contact to cause that fall, no whistle. Fans and coaches only see the crash. I do think that the block/charge at the college level gives too much credit to the defender. It’s a tough call in real time but I feel like some officials like to show off their charge call and thus rewarding the defender for a late slide over.
100% agreement that the parents and their belligerent Behavior towards officials no matter what the situation is has led to less people wanting to do it and therefore less competence with the officiating. It's just a continuous downward cycle and then when a school administrator tries to that discipline them and not allow them to come to a game they try and file some type of suit.
 
People and a lot of officials forget basketball is a contact sport. Since I've done both HS official and JH coach I've been on both sides. My gripes over the years have never been about missed calls(I know I missed a lot and there is no way to see everything) I hate it when an official doesn't know the rules and then goes on a power trip and T's up a coach. We had a JV coach get tossed for arguing the side of the back board isn't out of bounds. The ref told him he was wrong and tossed him for arguing.
 
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People and a lot of officials forget basketball is a contact sport. Since I've done both HS official and JH coach I've been on both sides. My gripes over the years have never been about missed calls(I know I missed a lot and there is no way to see everything) I hate it when an official doesn't know the rules and then goes on a power trip and T's up a coach. We had a JV coach get tossed for arguing the side of the back board isn't out of bounds. The ref told him he was wrong and tossed him for arguing.
Great point....the best thing a referee in basketball or an umpire in baseball can do is admit they missed something. That tends to calm a coach down. The worst are the arrogant pricks who think they’ve never missed a call. The only times I ever got a technical were when dealing with these arrogant types.
 
"...we’re taught to referee the defense." Are you ignorant of the rules or just the worst official that I have ever heard.

I've never officiated basketball but that philosophy makes a lot of sense to me. It doesn't mean ignore the offense. Since the defense is more static, it's easier to track the defenders as opposed to watching the offense run around.
 
I've never officiated basketball but that philosophy makes a lot of sense to me. It doesn't mean ignore the offense. Since the defense is more static, it's easier to track the defenders as opposed to watching the offense run around.

And, you can't call everything every time.

Illegal moving screens, by Duke players & flopping, have negatively influenced the game.
 
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How an offensive player can “back down” the defender by pushing him backwards and that’s not a foul....has always made me scratch my head.
Yet, if the defender muscles up to prevent the offensive player running him over, it’s a foul.
🤷🏻‍♂️

OL
Mike Mathis and Charles Barkley-read up on their relationship-Funny now but hypertension inducing back in the day!
 
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I coached high school basketball for ten years and I loved the preseason rules interpretation meetings. The conference rules specialist used to always say "If its a foul for 31 minutes and 50 seconds.... it's a foul the last ten seconds." It's so true though. How many times do you hear people say to let the players decide the game? The rule book doesn't have a special section for foul calls the last ten seconds.
I've coached high school basketball for years and for about half of the time I've done it my teams were small and quick where we went with basically four guards and pressed for most of the game. There was nothing worse then getting your officials report that day and seeing that you had two old guys that can't get up and down the floor as your officials.
Pre-season rules interpretation. Emphasis was going to be placed on having the players numbers correct in the scorebook. Rule would be: any player on the floor with a number that was not the same in the scorebook, a bench technical would be assessed for each player, 2 shot technical for every player. More than 2 players, the coach would be ejected from the game. So, my team is playing an away game when MY scorekeeper sees that the opponents have the entire team with illegal numbers. It used to be that many teams had home and away numbers, one number apart. For example, on the road you may wear #25, but at home you are #24. Anyway, my scorekeeper brings it to my attention and asks what he should do. "Nothing!" Just make sure my teams numbers are good to go. So the jump ball starts the game, we get the tap and I immediately call time-out and alert the refs that the opponent has FIVE illegally numbered players on the floor. And that by the rule that was stressed at the meeting(and the 2 refs were there), I will be shooting 10 free throws, and the opposing coach is gone. Well, I was the road team that nite, so the refs meet and decide I will get 2 foul shots and possession! That's it!!! I lose the game by 1, tie for the first half title and lose the playoff game. I protest the ruling, the head of the chapter calls me and tells me the refs fvcked up...but there is nothing that can be done....25 years ago and I am still pissed...
 
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Pre-season rules interpretation. Emphasis was going to be placed on having the players numbers correct in the scorebook. Rule would be: any player on the floor with a number that was not the same in the scorebook, a bench technical would be assessed for each player, 2 shot technical for every player. More than 2 players, the coach would be ejected from the game. So, my team is playing an away game when MY scorekeeper sees that the opponents have the entire team with illegal numbers. It used to be that many teams had home and away numbers, one number apart. For example, on the road you may wear #25, but at home you are #24. Anyway, my scorekeeper brings it to my attention and asks what he should do. "Nothing!" Just make sure my teams numbers are good to go. So the jump ball starts the game, we get the tap and I immediately call time-out and alert the refs that the opponent has FIVE illegally numbered players on the floor. And that by the rule that was stressed at the meeting(and the 2 refs were there), I will be shooting 10 free throws, and the opposing coach is gone. Well, I was the road team that nite, so the refs meet and decide I will get 2 foul shots and possession! That's it!!! I lose the game by 1, tie for the first half title and lose the playoff game. I protest the ruling, the head of the chapter calls me and tells me the refs fvcked up...but there is nothing that can be done....25 years ago and I am still pissed...

That rule has since changed. It's just one administrative technical rather than for each player. After reading about your experience, I can see why they changed it. Whichever official checked the book pregame also messed up by not making sure numbers matched, something I admit I overlook on occasion.
 
Great point....the best thing a referee in basketball or an umpire in baseball can do is admit they missed something. That tends to calm a coach down. The worst are the arrogant pricks who think they’ve never missed a call. The only times I ever got a technical were when dealing with these arrogant types.

I've admitted I'm wrong. You just can't do it with the same coach more than once a year!
 
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