If 33, 41 and 74 are black holes...

[NittanyChris]

We still have a shot to win it all but the path narrows substantially.

Have to believe the chance of pulling Hall's shirt increased after today.

On a happier note both Nicks were VERY impressive today!!!

Roar Lions Roar!!!

 

[johnstownsteel]

Today's match means absolutely nothing in the big scheme of things. PSU still wins the title and at the end of it Hall still has 4 years of eligibility left. That's just my opinion....

 

[NittanyChris]

Today's match means absolutely nothing in the big scheme of things. PSU still wins the title and at the end of it Hall still has 4 years of eligibility left. That's just my opinion....

I still think we are better than everyone, though if Cortez, Gulibon and 74 don't give us much, then we may be even money with Okla St. I think us and Okla St are at another level from the rest of the field.

 

[RoarLions1]

Not much for referring to the fine young wrestlers that represent the school that I cheer for that way. If history is any indication, it's likely every one of our guys will be a tough out at NCAA's.

 

[minnhawkeye]

Since most likely Clark will not be healthy I agree.
Lots will come down to the seeding at nationals.
Early rounds you guys will get lots of bonus points from Zain, Nolf,Nickal .
Will be dog fight between Penn State, Okl State and maybe even Ohio State.
With out a full strength Clark my Hawks will battle VT, Missouri for 4th.

 

[JimNazium]

Looks like a 21guns, knee-jerk reaction type post. We lose 3 bouts to a tough Lehigh squad so all three of the guys that lost are black holes in the line up.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Looks like a 21guns, knee-jerk reaction type post. We lose 3 bouts to a tough Lehigh squad so all three of the guys that lost are black holes in the line up.

I actually feel better about 141 after today. As for 174 I've always felt Morelli will win the spot anyway. 133 I'm just gonna put my head in the sand and trust the issues get worked out.

 

[NittanyChris]

Looks like a 21guns, knee-jerk reaction type post. We lose 3 bouts to a tough Lehigh squad so all three of the guys that lost are black holes in the line up.

OK, perhaps I was a bit harsh with the terminology. My bad. The overall point remains. Cortez was utterly dominated by Parker. It was a beatdown. I liked Jimmy's aggressiveness today, but neither you nor anyone else can tell me with a straight face that they know he will be an AA.

Like I said though, loving the Nicks' performance today!

 

[tikk10]

I could tell off the whistle that Cortez wasn't right; legs seemed wobbly, practically no reaction to counter-shots, like he was under the weather. I'm fine calling this match an outlier.

 

[JimNazium]

OK, perhaps I was a bit harsh with the terminology. My bad. The overall point remains. Cortez was utterly dominated by Parker. It was a beatdown. I liked Jimmy's aggressiveness today, but neither you nor anyone else can tell me with a straight face that they know he will be an AA.

Like I said though, loving the Nicks' performance today!

Definitely not great performances by any of the 3 that lost, and I'm sure they know it. Big Tens and NCAAs are a long way off at this point though. I don't expect we'll have 10 AAs , but I think the whole team will contribute points to the team race. Remember the terrible mid season slump that QWright went through before winning NCAAs. Its too early to write anybody off at this point.

 

[KFM74]

So we know Joseph was sick. When was the last time a team that works together as much as they do had only one sick member.

 

[diggerpup]

It's early December.

"Black hole" is pretty harsh.

 

[Cowbell Man]

Black holes??? Wow. Let's just consider for a moment. If a wrestler does not become an AA they are now a black hole weight??

Do I need to remind a few posters about Kerry McCoys record in his early career? Need a refresher on Frank Molinaro as a freshman? Bryan Pearsall?

Cortez in his first year of competition. And the criticism seriously under values Scotty Parker who is tough by any standard. Tough.

Jimmy wrestled actually well today. Maybe the haircut helped. However, I have watched Randy Cruz wrestle several times a year since he was like 8 years old. If I could have left for one match today I would have. He's a complete snooze fest. Dive for boots as a counter and just ride on top. Damn good at both and succeeds without really...you know....wrestling. I know we want Jimmy to finish his shots. Today was a bad matchup to learn if you are succeeding at that.

Rasheed could use some shot finishing, that's for sure. He was the aggressor and may have won the match without an in match adjustment by Lehigh coaches during the replay time out. They seem to have asked for Priesch to attack often and lower, which he did immediately upon resumption of the match. Rasheed will be better.

But black holes? Dang. They aren't even holes. I've coached....they are not holes.

 

[caliPSUfan]

How was Jimmys loss such a bad loss anyway? He was a considerable underdog and he was in it for the vast majority of the match...tough crowd.

As for Shak, he was right there with a kid that beat him last year and he kept working til the end...he even went big with a desperate throw attempt with a couple seconds to go.

Jared was another story - he was definitely outclassed today by a lower ranked opponent. Maybe he was a little off today and he'd do better on another day, but credit where credit is due - Parker looked really good out there today!

 

[caliPSUfan]

Black holes??? Wow. Let's just consider for a moment. If a wrestler does not become an AA they are now a black hole weight??

Do I need to remind a few posters about Kerry McCoys record in his early career? Need a refresher on Frank Molinaro as a freshman? Bryan Pearsall?

Cortez in his first year of competition. And the criticism seriously under values Scotty Parker who is tough by any standard. Tough.

Jimmy wrestled actually well today. Maybe the haircut helped. However, I have watched Randy Cruz wrestle several times a year since he was like 8 years old. If I could have left for one match today I would have. He's a complete snooze fest. Dive for boots as a counter and just ride on top. Damn good at both and succeeds without really...you know....wrestling. I know we want Jimmy to finish his shots. Today was a bad matchup to learn if you are succeeding at that.

Rasheed could use some shot finishing, that's for sure. He was the aggressor and may have won the match without an in match adjustment by Lehigh coaches during the replay time out. They seem to have asked for Priesch to attack often and lower, which he did immediately upon resumption of the match. Rasheed will be better.

But black holes? Dang. They aren't even holes. I've coached....they are not holes.

Damn, not only did you beat my post out by a couple seconds but you basically said the same thing I did but better.

 

[fen103]

I'm not worried about our chances at all. Nick Nevills continues to improve and I'm starting to think he maybe a top tier Heavy. We'll have to wait and see, but I love how he just pushes the pace and how he is always looking to score points. Soriano continues to show improvement and is stingy when it comes to defense. His hand fighting makes it so hard to get a shot off. Cenzo will continue to improve, so I'm not worried about him. 174 will work itself out. They're not going to pull Hall's shirt. Cortez I'm not sure about yet. Parker just out wrestled him and made him pay dearly for those mistakes. I'm taking a wait and see before I write him off or pencil in points at NCAAs. Jimmy is Jimmy. I rode the Jimmy train since the start and I will continue to ride just out of stubbornness. I would love to see him put it all together, but he's wild card. You never know what Jimmy is going to show up.

 

[Cletus11]

174 is going to score points at NCAA, just how many.

133 is a question mark.

141 is what it is. Jimmy just doesn't finish shots. It is strange that he gets a leg but then seems to turtle up after getting it and loses all aggresiveeness. But oh well.

 

[NittanyChris]

Ok folks, I used a bad term. Poor move on my part.

The point remains, however. IF we were to get very little out of those three spots at nationals, it lowers our odds to win it all.

I don't think that is an outrageous claim by any means.

 

[RoarLions1]

I could tell off the whistle that Cortez wasn't right; legs seemed wobbly, practically no reaction to counter-shots, like he was under the weather. I'm fine calling this match an outlier.

Said the same thing at the dual, tikk. In fact, Mrs. Roar also said it looked like something might be wrong. Jered controlled the action completely in a 3-1 victory last year over Scott Parker. Much different result today.

 

[Abro1975]

Ok St is a very tough match up weight for weight. Iowa too.

 

[nitlion6]

Cortez was ill.
Jimmy just doesn't quite finish shots like zain, jason or a few others. Wrestle every match with that much enthusiasm and energy and good things will follow.
Rasheed wrestled a tough opponent and lost by a point (ignoring desperation headlock attempt). If they don't reverse the second TD he wins. He was still wrestling his heart out at the end.

Yep Chris, bad terminology.

Everybody should enjoy the process and not flip out when we have a kid actually lose a match. Just saying.

 

[nitlion6]

Ok St is a very tough match up weight for weight. Iowa too.

Oklahoma st is a tough match up for anybody. That's because they are quite talented.
You know who else is a tough matchup for anybody. Penn State, and for the same reason.

 

[NittanyChris]

Cortez was ill.
Jimmy just doesn't quite finish shots like zain, jason or a few others. Wrestle every match with that much enthusiasm and energy and good things will follow.
Rasheed wrestled a tough opponent and lost by a point (ignoring desperation headlock attempt). If they don't reverse the second TD he wins. He was still wrestling his heart out at the end.

Yep Chris, bad terminology.

Everybody should enjoy the process and not flip out when we have a kid actually lose a match. Just saying.

Not flipping out at all. I would really be interested in your honest response to the essence of the post. That is this: No one said Cortez was ill until you. We still need to see a lot more from him to expect substantial points at NCAAs. Jimmy is a wildcard. We all know that. He could AA or he could lose first round. 74 is a question mark as well.
So, IF we get very little from those three spots, which is a real possibility, how much does that negatively impact our chance to win it all?

 

[Cowbell Man]

Ok folks, I used a bad term. Poor move on my part.

The point remains, however. IF we were to get very little out of those three spots at nationals, it lowers our odds to win it all.

I don't think that is an outrageous claim by any means.

No. that is not outrageous, but generally speaking we or even most winners get their Points from 6-7 weight classes. .5 - 2 points from the others that even qualify. So this isn't a big deal.

In addition, we have 3 big bonus scorers and maybe more by the end of the season. They equal another wrestler which is an important part of our championships each year. Other teams so far have been lacking that bonus firepower at NCAA's.

What we will get is the contributions we need.

 

[fen103]

Everybody should enjoy the process and not flip out when we have a kid actually lose a match. Just saying.

I agree. I'll continue to trust Cael and company to make the decisions. Its worked out in us winning 5 National Titles.

 

[royboy]

Ok folks, I used a bad term. Poor move on my part.

The point remains, however. IF we were to get very little out of those three spots at nationals, it lowers our odds to win it all.

I don't think that is an outrageous claim by any means.

I see you've exaggerated and made wild statements here like you used to do on the politics board. Haven't seen you there much since the election.

 

[Azchief32]

We still have a shot to win it all but the path narrows substantially.

Have to believe the chance of pulling Hall's shirt increased after today.

On a happier note both Nicks were VERY impressive today!!!

Roar Lions Roar!!!

They are not black holes. It's early in the season. Jimmy is unpredictable so who knows, Cortez will learn how to better keep himself on an even keel week to week, and your 74 will be decided and get more matches. I am surprised at the Cortez result only in that he usually keeps it close even if he gets beat.

 

[NittanyChris]

I see you've exaggerated and made wild statements here like you used to do on the politics board. Haven't seen you there much since the election.

If I wanted to talk politics I'd be there Boy. Hope you're happy with the new orange face of the nation. It's on you.

 

[RoarLions1]

Cheer up...holy cow, we just won a dual 30-10 against a pretty good team.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Not flipping out at all. I would really be interested in your honest response to the essence of the post. That is this: No one said Cortez was ill until you. We still need to see a lot more from him to expect substantial points at NCAAs. Jimmy is a wildcard. We all know that. He could AA or he could lose first round. 74 is a question mark as well.
So, IF we get very little from those three spots, which is a real possibility, how much does that negatively impact our chance to win it all?

There was no essence to your post unless you do the same analysis of the other teams that are in contention for the team title. If you do that you will find they all have several of your so called "black holes". The fact is almost EVERY team champ over the years has gotten all of the points they needed to win the title from 5-8 weights. Last year we won by 25.5 points. We scored all but 4.5 of those points at 6 weights, so the answer to your question is there is almost NO negative impact if we score a minimal number of points at 133, 141, and 174.

 

[Real-Lion]

We still have a shot to win it all but the path narrows substantially.

Have to believe the chance of pulling Hall's shirt increased after today.

On a happier note both Nicks were VERY impressive today!!!

Roar Lions Roar!!!

I think we need to wrestle Hall starting next month....He would win it at 74 this year and get bonus points !!!! I would not take any chances because if not we are not getting much at all at 33 41 and 74....JMO

 

[NittanyChris]

There was no essence to your post unless you do the same analysis of the other teams that are in contention for the team title. If you do that you will find they all have several of your so called "black holes". The fact is almost EVERY team champ over the years has gotten all of the points they needed to win the title from 5-8 weights. Last year we won by 25.5 points. We scored all but 4.5 of those points at 6 weights, so the answer to your question is there is almost NO negative impact if we score a minimal number of points at 133, 141, and 174.

You said there was no essence to the post, but then you actually did a very good job of responding to the essence of my post.

If your view is that there would be almost no negative impact getting minimal points at those three spots, then that would be very reassuring.
I'm not quite sure I buy it totally, but you did make some valid points.

 

[NittanyChris]

One last question, NovaLion, name the three weight classes where Okla St will get minimal points. I can see just one, HWT.
Now, our big guns are MUCH better than Okla State's top guys, IMO, so that still gives us the edge over them. The edge is just not as large as some posters on here believe it to be.

 

[PSUranger]

I think Cortez just didn't look in sync tonight. Don't know why. I think he will be OK. Let's not panic.

jimmy is Jimmy. I just don't know what to expect. He can beat anybody or lose to nobody.Would like to give Moss some matches and see where he is. not saying they bench Jimmy.

I like Rasheed but don't think he is the best option right now.I think Gino wins that match tonight.

thank God it is early in the season and I don't get paid to make these decisions.

GREAT TO BE A PSU FAN !!!!!

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

How was Jimmys loss such a bad loss anyway? He was a considerable underdog and he was in it for the vast majority of the match...tough crowd.

As for Shak, he was right there with a kid that beat him last year and he kept working til the end...he even went big with a desperate throw attempt with a couple seconds to go.

Jared was another story - he was definitely outclassed today by a lower ranked opponent. Maybe he was a little off today and he'd do better on another day, but credit where credit is due - Parker looked really good out there today!

Agree regarding JG today - I thought he got a little screwed by the Official today. Cruz did not make a single "real" shot from neutral, while JG made shot after shot including in the 3rd late. The NCAA needs to do something about the "defensive ankle grab for stalemate"....."ankle pass".....or whatever else you want to call it. Look, if they can create a rule where you're dinged for stalling for riding a leg below the waist (which I believe is a good rule), they certainly can create a rule that going to a "defensive ankle grab" off an opponent's clean shot which generates a "stalemate" will generate a stalling call (i.e., if you do not generate your own offense off the move, or both wrestlers don't return to neutral, and all you do is generate a "stalmate", you will generate a stall call -- IOW, you can do it once without giving up a point.). But the way Cruz wrestled in the 1st Period and 3rd Period (i.e., zero "real" offensive attacks from neutral), should not be rewarded......and conversely, the way JG wrestled (i.e., 100% of the "real" offensive attacks from neutral) should be rewarded. Even as it was, I think the official completely blew it by making no stall calls on Cruz in the 1st Period - could have easily been dinged more than once given that JG sustained 100% of the offensive attacks from neutral (ditto the 3rd period).

 

[21Guns]

The only thing that concerned me, was that Parker horsed Cortez. Getting horsed isn't a good look.

On the other hand, Parker is badly underrated, so a LOT of that is Parker.

Still, never like getting horsed.

 

[nitlion6]

Agree regarding JG today - I thought he got a little screwed by the Official today. Cruz did not make a single "real" shot from neutral, while JG made shot after shot including in the 3rd late. The NCAA needs to do something about the "defensive ankle grab for stalemate"....."ankle pass".....or whatever else you want to call it. Look, if they can create a rule where you're dinged for stalling for riding a leg below the waist (which I believe is a good rule), they certainly can create a rule that going to a "defensive ankle grab" off an opponents clean shot which generates a "stalemate" will generate a stalling call (i.e., if you do not generate your own offense off the move, or both wrestlers don't return to neutral, and all you do is generate a "stalmate", you will generate a stall call -- IOW, you can do it once without giving up a point.). But the way Cruz wrestled in the 1st Period and 3rd Period (i.e., zero "real" offensive attacks from neutral), should not be rewarded......and conversely, the way JG wrestled (i.e., 100% of the "real" offensive attacks from neutral) should be rewarded. Even as it was, I think the official completely blew it by making no stall calls on Cruz in the 1st Period - could have easily been dinged more than once given that JG sustained 100% of the offensive attacks from neutral (ditto the 3rd period).

For 10 years in a row Cornell has won the EIWA, this year will make 11.
Until the personality of Lehigh's wrestling changes the Hawkineers will compete for the EIWA runner-up trophy.
They have some really tough kids but other than Parker, Preisch (once) and Kutler I am uncertain if any of them stepped forward to attack.

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

3.5 months until the NCAA's. Trust the process for these kids. They will peak and be ready.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

The only thing that concerned me, was that Parker horsed Cortez. Getting horsed isn't a good look.

On the other hand, Parker is badly underrated, so a LOT of that is Parker.

Still, never like getting horsed.

Parker using the same move twice, a "throw by", for the first 2 TDs and 4 points was pretty disconcerting. A wrestler at this level, especially in PSU's lineup, should not get burned back-to-back in the 1st Period on such a rudimentary basic move. Once, you could chalk it up to sloppiness and falling asleep at the switch, but twice is really not excusable imho.

 

[Azchief32]

The NCAA needs to do something about the "defensive ankle grab for stalemate"....."ankle pass".....or whatever else you want to call it. Look, if they can create a rule where you're dinged for stalling for riding a leg below the waist (which I believe is a good rule), they certainly can create a rule that going to a "defensive ankle grab" off an opponents clean shot which generates a "stalemate" will generate a stalling call (i.e., if you do not generate your own offense off the move, or both wrestlers don't return to neutral, and all you do is generate a "stalmate", you will generate a stall call -- IOW, you can do it once without giving up a point.).

Apples and oranges...One is a counter shot, the other is applied by the offensive guy (top) on the defensive guy. Lots of guys score on passing the leg, some use it to get a stalemate. Yea, I hated that little bastard from Illinois (wrestling, not as a person for you literalists out there) but doesn't change the fact that guys do score off of it.