Illegal Picks

[Shendojoe]

Just rewatched Clemson's last two passing TDs. What constitutes an illegal pick? Both plays are essentially the same with the outside receiver coming inside and picking/ blocking the inside defender to release the inside receiver to the open outside. I had no horse in that race. Just my observation.

 

[sluggo72]

Just rewatched Clemson's last two passing TDs. What constitutes an illegal pick? Both plays are essentially the same with the outside receiver coming inside and picking/ blocking the inside defender to release the inside receiver to the open outside. I had no horse in that race. Just my observation.

If you are worried about the picks, why not play zone??

 

[MaconNitt]

Just rewatched Clemson's last two passing TDs. What constitutes an illegal pick? Both plays are essentially the same with the outside receiver coming inside and picking/ blocking the inside defender to release the inside receiver to the open outside. I had no horse in that race. Just my observation.

From what I gathered while watching the Rose Bowl, If the pass is completed behind the line of scrimmage then it is not a penalty. It is considered a run not a pass.

 

[Shendojoe]

From what I gathered while watching the Rose Bowl, If the pass is completed behind the line of scrimmage then it is not a penalty. It is considered a run not a pass.

The passs were in the end zone

 

[Shendojoe]

If you are worried about the picks, why not play zone??

Why have a rule for illegal picks if you don't call it?

 

[TenerHallTerror]

Why have a rule for illegal picks if you don't call it?

why have rules for offensive holding in the Big Ten? LOL

but you make a valid point. rules are "fungible"

I think Alabama lost that game because they failed to adjust to the officiating. it didn't appear the refs were calling the "soft" picks. especially that close to the end zone, giving the receiver a good chuck at the line of scrimmage can break up that pick

 

[Erial_Lion]

Just rewatched Clemson's last two passing TDs. What constitutes an illegal pick? Both plays are essentially the same with the outside receiver coming inside and picking/ blocking the inside defender to release the inside receiver to the open outside. I had no horse in that race. Just my observation.

On the final touchdown, the WR on the outside didn't touch the inside defender. The CB had to fight past his teammate to try and get outside, but there is no way you could have called an offensive PI for blocking the inside defender.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

On the final touchdown, the WR on the outside didn't touch the inside defender. The CB had to fight past his teammate to try and get outside, but there is no way you could have called an offensive PI for blocking the inside defender.

Correct. The earlier one was closer, but on final TD, the outside WR was jammed by CB.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

Correct. The earlier one was closer, but on final TD, the outside WR was jammed by CB.

here's a pretty good analysis by SB NAtion:

LINK

my point was that the defender either has to stand up the receiver at the line of scrimmage, or not make contact at all (obviously, I prefer the old school LOS "chuck")

on both TDs presented, the defender "bites" into making contact with the receiver while also blocking the path of the second defender. bad D

 

[KnightSlayer]

Just rewatched Clemson's last two passing TDs. What constitutes an illegal pick? Both plays are essentially the same with the outside receiver coming inside and picking/ blocking the inside defender to release the inside receiver to the open outside. I had no horse in that race. Just my observation.

It's a judgement call and depends on the skill of the WR. Run straight into the defender like a blocker and it will be called. Run towards the defender looking back at the QB and acting like you are running a pass route while getting in the way of the defender, no call.

 

[Art]

Why have a rule for illegal picks if you don't call it?

The way the rule is interpreted these days, it's only called if Receiver B impedes Defender A who is covering Receiver A. If Receiver B runs into Defender B creating traffic that causes Defender A, who is covering Receiver A, to slow down or change his route allowing Receiver A to get open no foul.

Similarly, if, in the official's view, Receive B does not initiate contact and Defender A runs into him thereby freeing up Receiver A, no foul.

 

[EPC FAN]

why have rules for offensive holding in the Big Ten? LOL

but you make a valid point. rules are "fungible"

I think Alabama lost that game because they failed to adjust to the officiating. it didn't appear the refs were calling the "soft" picks. especially that close to the end zone, giving the receiver a good chuck at the line of scrimmage can break up that pick

Big XII officials. They are used to allowing so much of this crap.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

Big XII officials. They are used to allowing so much of this crap.

exactly. great coaching means adjusting in game to how the refs are calling it . . . sheeeeoot I bet Lane Kiffin would have scouted the Big XII game tapes in preparation for the championship . . .

 

[Tweedbear]

Basis of no call is within 5yds of scrimmage.
Any bets on calling defensive pass interference.

 

[Shendojoe]

Watch closely.

 

[jimarnp]

Just rewatched Clemson's last two passing TDs. What constitutes an illegal pick? Both plays are essentially the same with the outside receiver coming inside and picking/ blocking the inside defender to release the inside receiver to the open outside. I had no horse in that race. Just my observation.

Was questioning that myself. Also appeared that Clemson WR never really disengaged from the block....and PI could have been called. Although, with 1 second left, the refs probably didn't want to call an offensive penalty and effectively give BAMA the game. If there were several minutes left, I think a penalty would have been called.

 

[androcles]

...after the first one both announcers called it a pick ...
...but not after the second one...

 

[gogolion]

The last TD definitely was NOT a pick. The outside receiver never touches the inside defender. On the first one, there was some contact so it was a little more questionable. Its a judgement call in that case as to whether the receiver purposely impeded the defender.

 

[gogolion]

here's a pretty good analysis by SB NAtion:

LINK

my point was that the defender either has to stand up the receiver at the line of scrimmage, or not make contact at all (obviously, I prefer the old school LOS "chuck")

on both TDs presented, the defender "bites" into making contact with the receiver while also blocking the path of the second defender. bad D

Yes, that link explains pretty clearly why there was no PI on either play.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

Yes, that link explains pretty clearly why there was no PI on either play.

it is kind of crappy as a defender not to be able to see which play they're running, but you HAVE to communicate to the other defender and either stick the receiver at the line, or back off and play man defense. seems like on both TD the defender was non commital either way. cannot win like that

 

[Cosmos]

It's a judgement call and depends on the skill of the WR. Run straight into the defender like a blocker and it will be called. Run towards the defender looking back at the QB and acting like you are running a pass route while getting in the way of the defender, no call.

Exacty! It's all about the 'sell' by the receiver doing the pick. Dabo did an excellent job of preparing for this game. He scouted Big XII refs. Picks are more common in Big XII football than basketball.

 

[LongJakk]

Honestly, I would've called defensive holding not pass interference. The WR didn't engage the DB. The DB engaged the WR and then pulled him to the ground causing the inside DB to run around his own teammate trying to cover the slot receiver.

 

[PSUinCali]

If what all you guys say is true and legal (receiver not making contact with defender) about the pick play, then why is it not used more in goal line situations? It seems way more efficient then say...a fade route...but that play seems to be used more....opinions?

 

[EPC FAN]

Basis of no call is within 5yds of scrimmage.
Any bets on calling defensive pass interference.

5 yard rule is NFL. Doesn't apply in college football.

 

[bjf1991]

it is kind of crappy as a defender not to be able to see which play they're running, but you HAVE to communicate to the other defender and either stick the receiver at the line, or back off and play man defense. seems like on both TD the defender was non commital either way. cannot win like that

Bottom line - - - horrible coaching and/or execution on the part of 'Bama

In that situation, your DBs simply have to attack each receiver at the LOS and tackle them (literally) as soon as the ball is snapped

Obviously, Bama then gets flagged for multiple "PI"s.......but, so what?
That gets you your best case scenario (for Alabama) - basically the same as an incomplete pass ....... Clemson gets to run their last play (from the 1 instead of the 2)......but now they (Clemson) have to either kick the tieing FG, or risk it all on one play (since the clock will run out)

Whether it was a "pick" or not (and, personally, I thought it was borderline) ......Bama F-ed up
Bad game awareness

 

[bjf1991]

If what all you guys say is true and legal (receiver not making contact with defender) about the pick play, then why is it not used more in goal line situations? It seems way more efficient then say...a fade route...but that play seems to be used more....opinions?

1 - Even as it played out, that play was very borderline as to whether or not a Ref would flag it......and offensive PI is a significant penalty

2 - If The defense isn't in "man", the play isn't a real good choice (if they are in zone you can't "screen" the guy you need to screen)


FWIW, PSU had the same play (or very similar, with the same basic concepts) run against them multiple times this year........once in the RB, and at least once (I think it was twice - OTTOMH) by Indiana in that game

IIRC, in all of those occasions they caught PSU in man (really, in the IU case at least, they KNEW it was man - - - they used pre-snap motion to force PSU to "show their hand", and when Reid (IIRC) followed the targeted receiver across the formation, they pretty much knew they had a "gimme" pitch and catch for the TD)


I don't recall Clemson using motion to get a pre-snap read in the Clemson-Bama game.....but you often do see that and have a check for the QB to go with the "rub" if they see man, possibly something else if they don't

 

[EdH85]

FWIW, in a post game interview Clemson QB Watson referred to the play as a "pick" play.

 

[massimoManca II]

 

[ILLINOISLION]

Thought this thread was gonna be about Jimmy Harbaugh's afternoon snack routine!

 

[Woodpecker]

Thought this thread was gonna be about Jimmy Harbaugh's afternoon snack routine!

An' what if I did do it? Even though I admit to nothing, and never will. What does that make me? And I'm not here just defending myself but all those Pickers out there who've been caught. Each an' every one of them, who has to suffer the shame and humiliation because of people like you..

Are we not human?! If we pick, do we not bleed?!

I am not an animal!

 

[papa_ed]

I didn't watch the game, honestly, because I'm more interested in PSU wrestling now since the football season is over for PSU and I simply forgot about it, I don't have much enthusiasm for the so-called BCS championship series, although it looks like I missed a good game. Not that it matters now, but how in any sane world can O$U still be ranked ahead of PSU in the final poll? Anyhow, seemed like a smart play by Clemson IMO, why not call it if you can get away with it?