INKY: Past Victim Faults PSU in Frat Death
- Thread starter demlion
- Start date
Well, that's where the deep pockets are. So it isn't a surprise that is where the lawyers go. And, why not? Easy money.
Would not be any money from that source if they were not affiliated. If you undertake to control or regulate something, you are at fault if you fail. Easy enough to fix.Well, that's where the deep pockets are. So it isn't a surprise that is where the lawyers go. And, why not? Easy money.
True...but PSU has limited responsibility/authority. I believe these are independent organizations that are not on University property. Correct? Now, PSU can and has some limited influence. But the governance is that of the Greek community, not PSU. Is that correct? I am not 100% sure but that was PSU's position.
PSU has the power to levy sanctions, withdraw recognition, banish particular orgs, etc. It is likely going to be enough to get the hook in.
Tell it to the students who pay ever higher tuition to finance these lawsuit settlements.
I don't know. At my school, they started a group called "GDI" for God Damned Independents. They ended up worse than all of the Frats combined (and I hate frats). Yet, they weren't endorsed by anyone nor affiliated with the school in any way. Anyone can start any "club" for any reason and PSU would have nothing to do with it.
I agree PSU can and should do and not recognizing them is probably smart. But I don't know if that helps or hurts efforts against hazing and under age drinking. I mean, its like fighting a war against Iraq (a uniformed army) and fighting a war against ISIS (a group of miscreants assembled for no particular reason than to cause havoc).
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Right. No doubt the kid would still be dead. But PSU would not be sued. Hard to see why taking any liability is in the fiduciary interest of PSU.
Yes, I believe this kid. Only a goofball would drink a liquor cocktail laced with feces, urine and vomit to get into a frat. No wonder this imbecile is a food server at a restaurant.
Still on a rampage are you? Have you ever taken the simple step like obliviax of admitting you always disliked fraternities?
Like any good personal injury attorney, you have stated your position, which may be accurate, as far as cutting ties with fraternities. However, like most PI's you do not have an answer to the multilayered questions of effective alcohol control, college versus oppressive atmosphere, student recruitment and alumni relations(donations).
Well, that's where the deep pockets are. So it isn't a surprise that is where the lawyers go. And, why not? Easy money.
I have repeatedly said that I dislike anyone who kills people OR sexually abuses children and manages to dump liability for that on PSU. If PSU is not smart enough to get out of the way of this, NO chance they will ever be able to solve those other societal problems you think they should have to solve before protecting their own fiduciary interests.
There is not a lick of evidence cited to suggest PSU is competent to stop secret societies from torturing their members to death. I just want PSU to stop paying for it.
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Sounds more like a gang initiation than a frat pledge. What is it in a person's mind that allows the process to escalate from rush week to drinking puke cocktail without walking away?
Like any good doctor, your self-regard slightly exceeds your value. Foolish to think that we have to make sure no kid ever dies at a party again, before we can choose to stop inserting ourselves in the middle of it.
BTW, thanks to uBRmeASAP (perfect name for this discussion) we have PAs anti-hazing law, which puts an affirmative duty on PSU to stop related or affiliated orgs from engaging in this activity. Won't it be interesting to see what PSU did differently, if anything, after this statute passed?
https://www.bloomu.edu/documents/dawn/HazingLaw.pdf
https://www.bloomu.edu/documents/dawn/HazingLaw.pdf
Agree, but like a lot of stupid PA laws, meaningless unless you have some leverage or authority to change behaviors. We'll see but I don't think PSU's greek community is much different than anyone else's and it remains to be seen what any university can effectively do to remediate.
Let's see...what does a smart risk manager do when a stupid law forces him to take responsibility for something or someone he has never had any luck in controlling in the past? Boy, that's sure a tough one....
Hey maybe if the hazing orgs are not in any way associated with the University, the University would have no duty to oversee the uncontrollable conduct of the frats?
if you dont like being hazed then stop pledging....none of these "brothers" are FORCING kids to show up and go through it. What ever happened to personal responsibility? You dont want to drink something gross? Dont show up and leave when it happens.
Problem is that still does not cure the illegality. The clear import of the Anti-hazing law is that FORCING is DEFINED, in the law, as being precisely what you say it is not:
"For purposes of this definition, any activity as described in this definition upon which the initiation or admission
into or affiliation with or continued membership in an organization is directly or indirectly conditioned shall
be presumed to be "forced" activity, the willingness of an individual to participate in such activity
notwithstanding."
It is the law. Even for frats.
Be sure to write to your rep to get him to revisit this law amended---what?--a year ago? Meanwhile, read it and weep.
Where was PSU when this law changed?
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just a joke that I often use for my doctor friends. For all I know lurker is a doctor.
Forced as a matter of law, your social responsibility theories notwithstanding. If you wish to use your personal; funds in defiance of this law, knock yourself out. I do not have any desire to see PSU use tuition money to continue defying the law.
What does a smart risk manager do? He immediately outlaws the optional activity and apologizes to everyone until the spotlight disappears. Treating football like that really worked out well. At least they tried to let the NCAA outlaw it.
Your analysis is flawed. Football was never the problem. At the moment, illegal hazing, furnishing and FORCED drinking ARE the problems, and have been the problem for quite a while.
Not fixable. Divorce.
SO when your patrol leader sends you on a snipe hunt or the search for a left-handed smoke-shifter, that's now a crime?
My analysis is not perfect but apt. "Football" will never be fixed since the Paterno legacy good and bad will never return to "normal." We will always be waiting for an announcer or acquaintance to say the word Sandusky.
I would like to point out that I have disagreed with you. I merely pointed out that there are no easy answers.
I'm pretty sure "lionlurker" is a doctor, but the guy your referring to is "lurkerlion"
I never understood why ANY university is sponsoring/endorsing private clubs/speakeasies/after-hours joints.
Look at the bright side. If PSU gets out of the frat business, then we don't need a Supervisor of Frats, and we can shizz can Damon Sims.
Win-win proposition.
Why does any school sponsor a 100k person drinking party ON campus?
When ANY student, athlete, non athlete, chess club member, coach, faculty commits a crime was the school sponsoring that crime?
Don't be obtuse.
Fox's tailgate is NOT recognized by PSU. I signed no agreements with the University as to how I will conduct myself, nor am I in any way an officially sanctioned organization. My tailgate is a permitted activity within some tightly regulated limits.
If you don't think it's permitted only under the most narrow circumstances, let me suggest setting up a tailgate in Lot 24 in say the middle of March and see what happens. Or say Tuesday afternoon in the middle of the week during football season.
If you can't tell the difference, sorry, can't help ya.
What? Your tailgate is subject to all rules and regulations of Penn State. You may belong to an organization like the lettermen's club or such which gets you preferential parking. Serving alcohol on campus is not allowed by PSU. Serving to minors is not allowed by PA and PSU. PSU has often threatened or discussed enforcing open container laws by sending police through the tailgate area and issuing citations.
Of course PSU is allowing a big party to happen. Soon it will probably even sell beer in the stadium. I wonder what will happen when some Ohio State fan gets thrown off the upper deck by a drunk fan?
works for me. If I am PSU, I am all in (have control over) or all out (have nothing to do with) any third party affiliate of any kind.
