Interesting Article re: Hack
- Thread starter rudedude
- Start date
"What didn’t help was the team’s strange play selection in certain instances. On 3rd and 4 they lined up with a bunch formation tight to the right and a lone receiver split wide to the left. This was a formation Penn State was keen on all game, but seemed unable to actually exploit for positive gains."
"When pressure came in this game, he was lost — and it was just as much his fault as the offensive line’s for the development of that pressure. When you turn up the heat you can forge impressive tools, or you can flame out. Hackenberg has been flaming out."
So offensive play calling, the QB and the OL ... pretty much sums up what everyone has been saying. Throw in Wartman-White getting injured and you have the makings of an upset.
"When pressure came in this game, he was lost — and it was just as much his fault as the offensive line’s for the development of that pressure. When you turn up the heat you can forge impressive tools, or you can flame out. Hackenberg has been flaming out."
So offensive play calling, the QB and the OL ... pretty much sums up what everyone has been saying. Throw in Wartman-White getting injured and you have the makings of an upset.
From some of the comments I've seen, there are some PSU fans who might actually be OK with that.
Funny. Seeing that in all likelihood he's leaving after this year, I'd bench him and start preparing for the future. After the last year, Penn State may have major trouble recruiting good QB's.
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From what I saw in looking at the sacks, most of them were due to poor protection, and his not getting rid of the ball was a secondary issue. The OL was getting beaten and/or overwhelmed by the rush. It looked like the Temple rushers were in the backfield almost as soon as Hack got the ball. Looked like poor blocking technique, slow footwork, and no communication up front.
SHHHHH.
Don't tell the legion of apologists around here that are blaming the coaching staff for five kids who couldn't start at most D1AA schools.
I think there is blame to go around. Regardless of whether they are top-shelf caliber or not, there is no excuse for not being able to block two rushers with 5 OL. And that's on the coaches, for sure. If the players are not improving their skills and technique, that is on the coaches.
Not one of the starting five offensive linemen at Penn State could start for any other Big Ten school.
Not one.
Not one.
I believe that you could take 5 decent DII or DIII linemen and still block 2 Temple DL's.
I disagree with you here, I think Mangiro and Nelson could both play for any team, maybe not at C or T but certainly OG. FWIW I broke down all 10 sacks from the sack video, there were only 2 maybe 3 where they were physically whipped. Most of them came from not be trained correctly or the scheme.
Exactly right. OK, you may have below average players, but the coaches knew that before any of us and if they made any effort to work around their deficiencies, it was not apparent. The coaches do not deserve all of the blame, but they certainly deserve a fair share.
5 OL not being able to block 2 rushers is not on the coaches. At some point (somewhere before 2 vs 5) the players just have to do their job
And yes the playcalling was horrible. And yes Hack made terrible reads
I realize that it's the players that are on the field, and not the coaches. But it's the coaches' job to make sure the players are skilled, drilled, and prepared to play. If the players are just going thru the motions, it's up to the coaches to yank them up by the short hairs, and find another warm body that wants to be in there. Heck, if you're getting beat by a middle rush, go tight splits and keep a back in to pass block. The OL may be sub-par, but it's on the coaches to get the best out of them, and make the necessary adjustments to minimize the flaws.
Watch the tape the guy splits the two because the two don't know who to block. That's on somebody it wasn't like it was a bull rush and was over powered
The shit BoT couldn't block the NCAA or Louie Freeh either. It's who we are. Get used to it.
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
If you read Nelson's comments, he mentions that he felt training camp was good and that they were performing well.
"Our offense was night and day difference [in camp] and that's still the truth," Nelson said Wednesday. "During camp I was so excited about where the offense was going because we were really doing a great job."
So what was the problem at Temple?
"We were trying some difference stuff, had miscommunication here and there, and didn't play nearly a well as we could have."
We were trying some "difference stuff had miscommunication"? Huh? Does this mean we tried to get too clever and cute with Temple? If so, it blew up in our face. I think Nelson's statement explains a lot, actually.
"Our offense was night and day difference [in camp] and that's still the truth," Nelson said Wednesday. "During camp I was so excited about where the offense was going because we were really doing a great job."
So what was the problem at Temple?
"We were trying some difference stuff, had miscommunication here and there, and didn't play nearly a well as we could have."
We were trying some "difference stuff had miscommunication"? Huh? Does this mean we tried to get too clever and cute with Temple? If so, it blew up in our face. I think Nelson's statement explains a lot, actually.
I finally decided to watch them. I watched the first and couldn't stomach the rest.
It's more than that. There are instances where they are confused about blocking assignments, etc. But there are others where they are getting beat b/c they aren't moving their feet, playing too high, etc. As I said earlier, there's blame to go around.
That is a pretty convincing article. I have been a Hackenberg fan throughout, and his arm strength is undoubted. But I am starting to become convinced that it's not really a system, or oline problem, as much as it is a QB problem. Even if they win their next couple of games, I would like to see someone else get some time in there. I don't know if McSorley will be any better, but I'd really like to see someone else behind center for a half or two.
One things for sure, he couldn't play any worse or generate worse results. Even if he is able to get a couple balls out of the pocket quickly, and throw them away.....or extend plays a bit by rolling out and throwing it into the stands if he still sees nothing.....he will have played many multiples better than CH on Saturday. Did you watch the tO$U - VaTech game? QBs on both teams faced pressure and less than perfect protection all day long....both defenses were getting clean untoched runs at the QB....getting a hit on the QB and forcing them to throw the ball before they'd like, etc.... We saw less than perfect protection with both QBs , but the one thing we didn't see was a QB that simply curled up into a "whoa is me" fetal position and didn't even try to avoid a sack or get rid of the ball, extend plays, etc....
Again, there is no way McSorley could play worse, or hurt the team more, than the way CH played on Saturday.
Hack was a big part of it. And the scheme was a big part of it.
One of the post-game shows on BTN was talking about it. The analyst pointed out that Temple was doing a very basic thing -- they were blitzing based on the Penn State formation. If PSU had 4 in protection, they rushed 5, if PSU kept 5, they rushed 6. Very, very simple. And PSU had no counter. PSU had no hot routes, no draws, no screens.
Anyway it was a lot more than the line play. It was coaching and Hack was just a statue back there. On a couple of the sacks all he would have had to do is take one step and the blitzer would have missed him. He basically held the ball and stood there and waited to be tackled. I understand having no confidence in the scheme but Hack shouldn't be giving up.
One of the post-game shows on BTN was talking about it. The analyst pointed out that Temple was doing a very basic thing -- they were blitzing based on the Penn State formation. If PSU had 4 in protection, they rushed 5, if PSU kept 5, they rushed 6. Very, very simple. And PSU had no counter. PSU had no hot routes, no draws, no screens.
Anyway it was a lot more than the line play. It was coaching and Hack was just a statue back there. On a couple of the sacks all he would have had to do is take one step and the blitzer would have missed him. He basically held the ball and stood there and waited to be tackled. I understand having no confidence in the scheme but Hack shouldn't be giving up.
It sounds like no one knows exactly why it happens. I guess it's a combination of Hackenberg, scheme and coaching and the offensive line. I don't expect great improvement since no one knows the cause.
They could literally fall to the ground and hope the rusher trips over them and have done a better job on three of those sacks.
Hack's body language has concerned me since last year.
He may not have the best O-line, but at some point you have to be a leader and have the team 'get on your back' and take them to a victory. My biggest concern for him in his potential nfl career is being drafted by the Browns. What's he gonna do then?
He may not have the best O-line, but at some point you have to be a leader and have the team 'get on your back' and take them to a victory. My biggest concern for him in his potential nfl career is being drafted by the Browns. What's he gonna do then?
It is interesting to note that the collapse was in reverse order of the narrative critics here have stated: It started with Lewis dropping two passes, then Hack started missing receivers, then the OL totally collapsed, then it even spread to the D somewhat.
So failure was like a virus spreading from WRs to QB to OL to D. (The TEs didn't appear to be in the game except to miss blocks)
When the failure is so systemic, either the other team is much more talented or the coaching is bad. I leave it to you to judge which.
L
Yeah, Lewis dropping those passes. It would've been 14-0. I'm not a fan of Lewis. I have to believe they have a better receiver on the team. Hacks inaccuracy on short passes too, and the the online breakdown. Very different set of events than the general narrative.
You fail to mention that both of the passes that Lewis dropped WERE NOT VERY GOOD PASSES and the ball was NOT WHERE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE destroying the "timing" on the play and making the catches far more difficult than they should have been. On the first drop, it was effectively a WR bubble screen - the ball was thrown down around Lewis' ankles such that even if he'd caught the ball, the play was not going anywhere because the bad throw - late and in a bad place (low meaning the receiver couldn't immediately run) - Lewis was going nowhere even if he makes the catch. On the second drop you refer to - Hack had just thrown another ground ball on 2nd down to a WR lined up on right-side on another failed WR screen attempt - on the 3rd Down Lewis ran a skinny slant and was able to get his hands on the ball, but the ball wrong-sided him badly and was thrown way behind him such that he had to reach back across his body while running away from the ball to catch it - the ball was not thrown IN-FRONT of Lewis to where he was running which is where your Mr. NFL QB was SUPOOSED TO THROW THE BALL. You legion of make all kinds of excuses for Hack and blame everybody else - the coaches, receivers, etc.... - are frigging ridiculous. Hack is not 100% responsible, but he certainly isn't 100% innocent either when he is making INACCURATE throws that are not where the WR expects them to be. If you think Hack was having a great game up to where we should have been leading 17-0 except for Lewis' two drops - you simply weren't watching very closely because Hack made as many bad throws as he did good throws even up to that point of the game (and neither of the Lewis drops was a "good" accurate throw - neither was where the ball is drawn up to be!) - which is hardly "NFL-esque", quite the opposite in fact.
I'm with you on Hack, but that ball over the middle on their first drive (I believe) hit him in the hands. Lewis should've caught it. He shouldn't catch the balls that Hack throws in the dirt, but the ones that hit him in the hands he should catch.
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