INTERESTING ARTICLE.....Two Mount St. Mary’s University professors were terminated on Monday
- Thread starter Michael.Felli
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Michael, many of us have agreed on the board that college students are spoiled and coddled nowadays, causing them to be depressed and anxious, and unable to function independently of their hovering parents. I would think you'd like the prez' approach, “this is hard for you because you think of the students as cuddly bunnies, but you can’t. You just have to drown the bunnies … put a Glock to their heads.” Refreshingly blunt, eh? 
Yeah, this is a wee bit chilling:
"Newman's letter firing the tenured professor -- Thane M. Naberhaus of the philosophy department -- accused him of disloyalty.
"As an employee of Mount St. Mary's University, you owe a duty of loyalty to this university and to act in a manner consistent with that duty. However, your recent actions, in my opinion and that of others, have violated that duty and clearly justify your termination," said the letter.
Further, the letter said that Naberhaus's actions "have caused considerable damage" to the university and that the university might sue him. In addition, the letter told Naberhaus he was "designated persona non grata" and banned from the campus."
Not so sure that is going to fly with a tenured prof--but of course the goal is not necessarily to permanently remove him--it is to ensure that everyone remain afraid of the President and the Board.
I hope he lights them up.
This is a somewhat controversial approach to a very real problem. I have several friends who teach at well known eastern universities and they all talk about the pressure to inflate grades.Michael, many of us have agreed on the board that college students are spoiled and coddled nowadays, causing them to be depressed and anxious, and unable to function independently of their hovering parents. I would think you'd like the prez' approach, “this is hard for you because you think of the students as cuddly bunnies, but you can’t. You just have to drown the bunnies … put a Glock to their heads.” Refreshingly blunt, eh?
One of them (who has since left the school and does full time consulting) once approached the dean of his college about the trend to a B being the lowest acceptable grade in the eyes of most students, parents and administrators. He was told that , since many of the school's costs were fixed, it was important to "keep the seats full".
This development is one of the reasons that an undergraduate degree is becoming almost irrelevant to many potential employers. In the eyes of many this is an extension of "everybody gets a trophy".
I don't know the people involved at "The Mount", but perhaps this was one person's attempt to curb inflation and ,at the same time, not let the inevitable drop out be delayed until the last few tuition payments were extracted.
When St. Anselms College was in the news because of the recent political activity, I googled the place. Their website speaks to the issue of grade inflation and the fact that thy have not joined in.
Just my 3 inflated cents...there is an important issue here. Thx
The problem of grade inflation, coddling, and unqualified students taking up oxygen is a real one, but this is decidedly NOT the way to address the issue. And if the fired prof does light them up, well, they had it coming.
Michael, many of us have agreed on the board that college students are spoiled and coddled nowadays, causing them to be depressed and anxious, and unable to function independently of their hovering parents. I would think you'd like the prez' approach, “this is hard for you because you think of the students as cuddly bunnies, but you can’t. You just have to drown the bunnies … put a Glock to their heads.” Refreshingly blunt, eh?
Tell that to Frank. Try putting a Glock to his head. He said the world will end in 28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, and 12 seconds. tick...tock...
LOL.
IIRC, these were the approximate numbers:
As a Chem Eng major, I believe we started out the first level of CHE coursework with a 400 member entourage. The number who made it through to graduation out of that group was about 70.
And that wasn't that awful long ago...
So, it was more like...."Look at everyone in your row....TWO of you will make it through"
"Understandably, the plan to essentially encourage students to drop out for the purpose of making the university’s numbers look good generated discontent among faculty members"
This article is biased. That is pretty obvious from the above.
Offering a free out to students who professors don't think will make it (probably because they won't) isn't encouraging students to drop our for numbers. College is expensive. Keeping a student there for 2-3 years with grade inflation even though they won't make it is a waste.
All workers never like a new plan.
LdN
Have you read the "Philosophy of Time Travel" by Grandma Death, aka Roberta Sparrow?Tell that to Frank. Try putting a Glock to his head. He said the world will end in 28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, and 12 seconds. tick...tock...
This is true. Also, even if you weren't really good enough to get accepted, but were a serviceable legacy.
Of course if the good of the students is uppermost in their minds, or even on the list, they probably know who will not succeed just based on testing, and one would wonder why they were accepted in the first place.
only for those that want it. Some kids show up, and you just know they aren't going to make it. My freshman year, we had a kid asleep in Calculus class, the prof saw this and said, 'if you are just going to sleep, I might as well leave,' and walked out. At that point, we found out who was sleeping, threw him out, gabbed the professor, and said, ' we need you', he came back. That was at most 45 days into this kids college career, he didn't make it, nor did he want to make it.
What's wrong with accepting people and then offering them a free trial? That's what is happening here.
LdN
The professor and the vp guy who got fired, who are professional educators, thought it was a bad idea. THEY GOT FIRED for thinking it was a bad idea. Not exactly an open and free marketplace of ideas there.
No company (which is what a University is) is a free and open marketplace of ideas.
People get fired all the time from jobs. Why are University professors special?
The plan probably isn't the best, but it's an attempt to a solution. Your view is that this isn't for the students. I say the students get a better deal.
LdN
A University is not a company. Oh, how I wish when Ken Frazier reached for the corporate crisis response checklist someone had told him that.
It's a company. A non-for profit company, but a company nonetheless. Corporations are different. Like towns for example.
Not sure what Ken Frazier has to do with this conversation except to try to add excitement to a case where a University is looking out for students who will likely fail out with 10s of thousands of dollars of debt and no degree.
LdN
I heard this too as a freshman engineer in 1966. The announcer seemed proud of it. He was right in my case as I sat between two friends from high school. I was the only one of the three to graduate in Engineering.
Running a univ is A LOT different than running a company. The Mount should have expected these issues when they insert a guy as Prez who has zero background in higher education administration.
No doubt. If the quotes are accurate, the guy sounds like Al "Chainsaw" Dunlap.
Ken Frazier thought PSU's crisis was like a crisis at BP or Merck. But a University is different from a for profit corporation or whatever it is you are calling a company. It is also different from most NON-profits, too. A University is place concerned with the truth. Which makes it more like a church than a company. The reason a meatcutter loses his job when he disagrees with the boss, but a professor does not, is that a professor is supposed to be concerned with the TRUTH. Since the time of putting people to death or ex-communicating them for scientific heresy of one kind or another, it has been recognized that if you want the truth to emerge then you must make the truth the boss, not some geek from a drug company.
This is all pretty standard fare since about 1700 or so.
You lost me at "Think Progress." The writer of the article, and his publication, have a definite slant. I would bet, whether what the college president did is right, wrong or a little bit of both, there is more to the story here than put forth in that article.
FAR FROM a "non-for profit company"...they are tax exempt organizations. Money machines sucking money out of middle class America. The endowments continue to grow at significant rates, while the politicians look to taxpayers to pay for more FREE education to kids they don't respect it. If banks raised their fees at the rate of tuition inflation the political, media outcry would be enormous.
I think we'll have to disagree on this one, which is the great thing about this board.
"Tenure" is a concept created by academic pinheads to protect themselves. You and I both know that private universities should have the ability to shape their curriculum without putting up with shenanigans from academic pinheads who don't want to follow the institutional charter.
Much like the NCAA.
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One of the things I appreciated at my graduate school was they had professors on opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of how they viewed a topic and there views on what was driving economics. The open exchange of different viewpoints opens students minds to the the idea you can have competing schools of thought and it is important to understand, and respect, opposing viewpoints to come to your own conclusion as to who is correct.
Ultimately, it comes down to the idea that even if you disagree with me you aren't evil; a concept that I often lacking in what passes for debate today. IMHO, a university needs to be a place where diverse viewpoints can be debated and presented without worrying about if you are going to lose your job simply because you disagree.
A company, which has a set of goals it wants to achieve is a different environment; even then the ability to keep competing ideas in your mind is important to being able to draw the right conclusions, something a university should install in their students, a talent that is often lacking in many "educated" people today.
