Things have changed since I was young when “Iowa” meant something in wrestling. After watching 10 matches, mostly 7 min stall routines by the feared black and gold, are the Iowa college kids taught to never shoot (unless you grew up in Pittsburgh)? Is the new “Iowa” style to wrestle to only lose by a couple of points? How does “Soren Eagle” not take a single shot when losing in the final 30 seconds?
Iowa Coaching
- Thread starter The Japanese Whizzer
- Start date
gotta be a perfect, wide open shot! Turk did his share...
Yeah wide open shots are always there in D1, right? On a slightly different note when my kid is wrestling a fish like bowman or gunther I tell him to score a few more points before pinning him, wish Cael would tell our guys the same especially if your parents/grandparents/aunts/uncles made the drive to watch you wrestle
- Gwynn barely took a couple shots.
- Turk was active.
- Sorenson moved around a lot but didn't shoot, but then shooting probably makes the match more one-sided.
- Gunther didn't get a chance to shoot. Ditto for Bowman.
- Wilcke took a couple sort of half-hearted shots.
- I don't recall much of anything from Stoll, other than locking up and pushing.
Take the Pennsylvania Boys off of that squad, and it’s middle-of-the-road Big Ten Team.
I agree with everything said here but I’m about to give you the reason Iowa is where they are.
Brands has said “we don’t have that kind of firepower”. He has talked about wrestling aggressive and scoring. They are losing more ground to everyone else every day. Why?
Look no further than Kemerer, Nickal,
Cenzo and Rasheed.
Rasheed shot and got a late TD to get a major we did not need.
Nickal got swipes starting at 3 seconds to go to get a major and we beat OSU beciase of it.
Cenzo, leading 5-3 needing nothing...still went after a throw. It doesn’t work, he loses and so what. Nothing. He will win next time.
Kemerer? With all the time in the world to get a tech, Brands has him ride out instead of catch and release. There’s your nutshell. Brands can only blame himself. If you want firepower you have to coach wrestling fast and all the way to the whistle. In two years Spencer Lee will be reduced to decisions.
Brands has said “we don’t have that kind of firepower”. He has talked about wrestling aggressive and scoring. They are losing more ground to everyone else every day. Why?
Look no further than Kemerer, Nickal,
Cenzo and Rasheed.
Rasheed shot and got a late TD to get a major we did not need.
Nickal got swipes starting at 3 seconds to go to get a major and we beat OSU beciase of it.
Cenzo, leading 5-3 needing nothing...still went after a throw. It doesn’t work, he loses and so what. Nothing. He will win next time.
Kemerer? With all the time in the world to get a tech, Brands has him ride out instead of catch and release. There’s your nutshell. Brands can only blame himself. If you want firepower you have to coach wrestling fast and all the way to the whistle. In two years Spencer Lee will be reduced to decisions.
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I thought too many of the Iowa wrestlers were perfect examples of why Duals should never factor into the National Championships. In the NCAAs as it is every wrestler has to wrestle to win. Duals coaches try to have some unfavored wrestlers do anything other than try to win!
Not a nice way to grow the sport!
Not a nice way to grow the sport!
Disagree. The reason Iowa is where it is, is too many effort guys, not enough talent guys.
You can get away with 1 or 2 effort guys starting. You can't get away with 5 of them, if you want to contend for the team title.
Warner next year will upgrade 197. They still need better at 133, 141, 174, 184.
You can get away with 1 or 2 effort guys starting. You can't get away with 5 of them, if you want to contend for the team title.
Warner next year will upgrade 197. They still need better at 133, 141, 174, 184.
Brands seems to be coaching the wrestling out of Kemerer, how does he not go for the jugular after demonstrating superiority? Is this not in the binder? Why is brands dumbing down PA prep wrestling? Leave our kids alone. The trajectory insinuates Lee will be winning 3-1 matches in a few years
That's crazy talk, Lee dropping down to dull decisions in a couple years. Kemerer is a good wrestler (and, yes, should be scoring more) but no Spencer Lee. The last guy Iowa had with Lee's talent was Metcalf, who did not decline.
If we think Brands coaches them to be too passive or unproductive, perhaps, but that doesn't mean it'll stick to Lee. Kyle Snyder somehow stayed out of the tanning beds too.
If we think Brands coaches them to be too passive or unproductive, perhaps, but that doesn't mean it'll stick to Lee. Kyle Snyder somehow stayed out of the tanning beds too.
As, a wrestling fan, Kemerer was most disappointing and representative of the criticism above.
He was taking down Pipher at will. He could have EASILY teched him with a more aggressive style, but no, he was content to ride for the major. Sad, because he is so very talented.
He was taking down Pipher at will. He could have EASILY teched him with a more aggressive style, but no, he was content to ride for the major. Sad, because he is so very talented.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
lmao this might be the dumbest thing I've ever read on an NCAA wrestling forum.
I'm glad you tell your kid to practice his takedowns before pinning elementary school fish. This is D1 NCAA wrestling. Why don't you send Cael a letter and let him know your thoughts on what Hall and Nickal should do next time.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
Hmmmmm Pipher stalled his ass off and was warned once. Not a good example here.
If you’re losing you have to initiate offense to win the match. If you are dominating you have to keep your foot on the pedal to score for your team. If you are ahead by 1 you’re best defense is to score again and win the bout. This is how our elementary kids are taught. I’m not Tom Brands though.
Boy I sure do like Kemdog's slickness on his feet.... wish we had him but where would you put him?
Nope. Your team just lost a match in an upset. Go out and pin him. If you show another kid up, whatever karma delivers upon you is deserved.
Well said...and I'm not sure, but think 149 will be a hole as well. I mean we got Lugo, who qualified for NCAAs a couple times, but never tasted the podium, and that's not going to help us out in the big picture. Sadly, I don't think we'll have the goods to battle for the title for at least the next 3-4 years, based on what we have, along with the 2018 and 2019 commits (or lack thereof). And we own it...nobody's fault but our own...
He reminds me a lot of Nolf...funky as all get out and no matter what happens they always come out looking good. And we're sure glad you don't have him. LOL! Our future right now consists of guys at 125, 157, 165 and 197...we can't afford to lose anyone. We've got to get our recruiting up to where PSU, tOSU, and a couple of the others are...we need a solid 2 or 3 top 10-15 recruits every year or we are screwed. And right now, we are screwed. And based on 2018 and 2019 commits we are screwed. Frustrates me to no end...
The only reason Pipher did not get called for stalling more was that Kemerer's attempts to improve on top were lacking so much. It actually was an excellent example. All Kemerer had to do was play catch and release and he'd have teched him easily, but he chose to ride instead. He could have taken him down as many times as he wanted in that match. Do you deny that?
Jefe, I grasp the “effort” statement and agree. My statement is that even the athletes aren’t turned loose when they should be....and that applied to Kemerer. That match, by all accounts should have been a TF yet the corner made no effort to get Kemerer to cut Pipher. They aren’t coaching “Metcalf” style wreslting to kids when they’ve born the fruit of the best example for wrestling that way.
Yes, Pipher was stalling. But the opponent should also make an effort to expose it. Stoll? Same. It’s not like Nevills was on a bike going forward, but Stoll didn’t even try a shot. Expose the staller! Nevills dove for a fast ankle mid match and didn’t get it and then went backwards again. Until the next time Nevills shot, Stoll countered and Nevills countered into the TD.
I guess Brands could get coaching style points for giving three lungers to Wilke, cause that match was going south fast.
FWIW Cenzo/Marinelli was all it was hoped to be except who won. Marinelli is a bull, a big pile of core strength and was in fact dominated by Cenzo. Marinelli never stopped moving forward and shooting and it was fun to watch. So yes, perhaps Brands coached him to be that way.
Unfortunately, the overwhelming evidence of the past several years is that the hands in face wrestling isn’t working. I would hardly call Evans an effort guy. If he would have turned loose his athletic talents, putting them on full display, I’m happy to argue he would have had some 1st place hardware on his shelf.
What remains interesting is the public acknowledgement of the need, and scant evidence of trying to change it. Lee is a special talent, and I want to see it all the time. Every time. 100 miles an hour.
Yes, Pipher was stalling. But the opponent should also make an effort to expose it. Stoll? Same. It’s not like Nevills was on a bike going forward, but Stoll didn’t even try a shot. Expose the staller! Nevills dove for a fast ankle mid match and didn’t get it and then went backwards again. Until the next time Nevills shot, Stoll countered and Nevills countered into the TD.
I guess Brands could get coaching style points for giving three lungers to Wilke, cause that match was going south fast.
FWIW Cenzo/Marinelli was all it was hoped to be except who won. Marinelli is a bull, a big pile of core strength and was in fact dominated by Cenzo. Marinelli never stopped moving forward and shooting and it was fun to watch. So yes, perhaps Brands coached him to be that way.
Unfortunately, the overwhelming evidence of the past several years is that the hands in face wrestling isn’t working. I would hardly call Evans an effort guy. If he would have turned loose his athletic talents, putting them on full display, I’m happy to argue he would have had some 1st place hardware on his shelf.
What remains interesting is the public acknowledgement of the need, and scant evidence of trying to change it. Lee is a special talent, and I want to see it all the time. Every time. 100 miles an hour.
You're forgetting the clause in Bo's slush fund contract: if he goes a full period against an Iowa wrestler, he has to give back the Lamborghini.
The first time I ever saw a Lamborghini was on Beaver Ave back in the day. WOW. One never forgets their first time lol.
Until last night, I was never onboard for ousting TNT. I was always of the opinion “careful what you wish for” when I talked to Iowa fans. My response was always “replace with who?” It took me a while, but now I’m seeing it. The older these kids get, the less inspired they wrestle. The freshmen looked awesome last night, but as you climbed into the junior class, and Sorenson as well, they were mostly flat and uninspired. It’s like time in the Brands Room sucks the life out of his kids. As much as i disliked the way Rutgers tried to play bully, they were at least inspired. Iowa has less fight than Rutgers, imo. Amazing. Imagine if Spencer Lee keeps his RS and Nolf is healthy? Last night goes from real bad to epic fail. And just why did Brands pull Lee’s shirt? Didn’t he pull it right about the time PD3 got into town? Brands thought he was onto something, and now all he did was piss off more faithful, and hurt his teams chances of a team title on the back end... all so Lee’s points will move Iowa from 6th to 4th this year. Congrats.
Those inside the state of Iowa are talking about how Spencer Lee is an animal (he is) and that Marinelli is the new king (he’s not), and that Iowa wrestling has a bright, bright future. Meanwhile, most everyone else outside the state of Iowa are placing bets on just how long the train wreck will continue before finally going completely off the rails.
3 ring binders full of golden intel. A coach actually said that into a microphone. SMH.
Cue up a Vodka martini in 3...2...1...
Those inside the state of Iowa are talking about how Spencer Lee is an animal (he is) and that Marinelli is the new king (he’s not), and that Iowa wrestling has a bright, bright future. Meanwhile, most everyone else outside the state of Iowa are placing bets on just how long the train wreck will continue before finally going completely off the rails.
3 ring binders full of golden intel. A coach actually said that into a microphone. SMH.
Cue up a Vodka martini in 3...2...1...
I was talking with a guy last night and I think his perspective has merit even if I dont necessarily agree with it (2018 shocker right)
This guy said this is Brands best year strictly from a coaching perspective. If you remove the hole he dug himself in year 10 of his reign, if you remove the mystic of gable, if you just grade brands against his peers from a single season perspective he is doing a top notch job.
Moves:
Went after Downey - love him or hate him, it was bold and he has helped that mid 20 something cast off for the most part cage his craziness. Shows people TnT have a heart, plays wells around the kitchen table (not my words and I dont agree). What happened with the ncaa isnt brands fault. It would have been huge for march, but as of now no harm no foul.
Freed the Lee - Probably the easiest decision he made, but the correct one for a kid that has shown some wear and tear and might need a RS down the road due to injury. Helps with recruiting, helps with podium finish, builds fan momentum....no down side, all up side
Injuries:
Did right by Bull, by stoll, by KemDog. Gave them rest when they needed.... didnt just throw them to the fire for duals that dont matter. Got guys varsity matches that wouldnt otherwise, keeps team moral high and keeps guys ready if they get called down the road.
Perry Hire
All good all around. HWC comes out of the ashes, raises money, gets guys wrestling on the world stage, helps with recruiting, helps with roster development. All upside
Fight night reset
This gent said there was some behind the scenes discussions after the fight night debacle about if this is the iowa wrestling they want to be branded with. The season looked over before it started, G-Man acted like an angry drunk and there was a feeling of implosion. GMan goes into WitSec after that night, and for the most part its been forgotten.
overall team
this just isnt a good team top to bottom, but they won the ones they were supposed to (duals and midlands), fought hard in the matches they werent (PSU, tOSU and scUM) and had by any pre season measure a great regular season.
So i get it, yeah they had a good season for a blue blood team, a great season by the standards of the great majority of D1 teams, but this is Iowa wrestling. They should never be in the situation they are in.
This guy said this is Brands best year strictly from a coaching perspective. If you remove the hole he dug himself in year 10 of his reign, if you remove the mystic of gable, if you just grade brands against his peers from a single season perspective he is doing a top notch job.
Moves:
Went after Downey - love him or hate him, it was bold and he has helped that mid 20 something cast off for the most part cage his craziness. Shows people TnT have a heart, plays wells around the kitchen table (not my words and I dont agree). What happened with the ncaa isnt brands fault. It would have been huge for march, but as of now no harm no foul.
Freed the Lee - Probably the easiest decision he made, but the correct one for a kid that has shown some wear and tear and might need a RS down the road due to injury. Helps with recruiting, helps with podium finish, builds fan momentum....no down side, all up side
Injuries:
Did right by Bull, by stoll, by KemDog. Gave them rest when they needed.... didnt just throw them to the fire for duals that dont matter. Got guys varsity matches that wouldnt otherwise, keeps team moral high and keeps guys ready if they get called down the road.
Perry Hire
All good all around. HWC comes out of the ashes, raises money, gets guys wrestling on the world stage, helps with recruiting, helps with roster development. All upside
Fight night reset
This gent said there was some behind the scenes discussions after the fight night debacle about if this is the iowa wrestling they want to be branded with. The season looked over before it started, G-Man acted like an angry drunk and there was a feeling of implosion. GMan goes into WitSec after that night, and for the most part its been forgotten.
overall team
this just isnt a good team top to bottom, but they won the ones they were supposed to (duals and midlands), fought hard in the matches they werent (PSU, tOSU and scUM) and had by any pre season measure a great regular season.
So i get it, yeah they had a good season for a blue blood team, a great season by the standards of the great majority of D1 teams, but this is Iowa wrestling. They should never be in the situation they are in.
If I were an Iowa fan I would be most disappointed with Sorensen's performance. Senior, elite wrestler, and he spent the entire 3rd period playing defense rather than try to win.
Iowa fans can come over here and puff their chest about Lee and Marinelli if they want, but Sorensen is just one in a long line of Hawks who have earned them a 'wrestle not to lose' reputation.
Joseph, even in defeat, showed why PSU has the opposite reputation. He could have settled for a decision, but wanted more.
Iowa fans can come over here and puff their chest about Lee and Marinelli if they want, but Sorensen is just one in a long line of Hawks who have earned them a 'wrestle not to lose' reputation.
Joseph, even in defeat, showed why PSU has the opposite reputation. He could have settled for a decision, but wanted more.
Since I have it up on DVR already....
Looked like it was only 1 swipe by ref.
If the ref were in position to see it from the camera angle, he probably gets 2 swipes.
Looked like it was only 1 swipe by ref.
If the ref were in position to see it from the camera angle, he probably gets 2 swipes.
Yeah, but this the situation they are in.
I agreed with most of what the guy said.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
Absolutely not. Marinellis back was not low enough initially for a count. Not until after Cenzo drives into him is he exposed. Sad how uninformed you guys are on the rules of the sport.
Spencer Lee and Michael Kemerer from last night's match.
http://hawkeyesports.com/roster.aspx?path=wrestling
Pat Duggan (w/o a photo); Pat Duggan (w/ a photo); Kaleb Young.
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I am watching it, watch it again. When ref swiped he got there late. AM was def. in that "swiped" position for 2 counts. Ref only got there in time for one of them.
I am not even a PSU fan. Its a nuetral observation.
Iowa wrestling appears to be heading into the sunset. Last night was embarrassing if I were them. With the exception of Lee, what offense was on display. Nothing from them. That match was a nightmare avoided by Nolfs injury and Joseph’s gamble otherwise it’s a 33-6 final. Where was Gable? When was the last time an Iowa squad was so dominated? TnT also were not their normal maniacs either.
There appears to be very little in RS other than Warner, who is a nice prospect, but no top recruits coming in. Vodka you might want to invest in something stronger cause it’s hard to be optimistic after that display last night.
There appears to be very little in RS other than Warner, who is a nice prospect, but no top recruits coming in. Vodka you might want to invest in something stronger cause it’s hard to be optimistic after that display last night.
Yeah, yeah. As I said. Village idiot, and I guess our guest until you need to go home. Hurry up and finish that swill you lug around. Your local caregivers are calling you.
Feet to butt and sitting straight up. How did that happen? I don't know. The explanation is in a bottle of vodka.
Now run along and offend some others.
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Agreed with one hitch: I hope you're arguing that Evans would've beaten Howe the year he pinned Perry in the semis -- otherwise don't be too happy to argue the point. The other 2 years he placed, he was in Brown's half of the bracket (lost to Brown once, lost one round before facing Brown the other).
What strikes me about Brands -- and probably is your point of acknowledging vs. correcting issues -- is most coaches except Cael have the same management philosophy: we wrestle with one team style. All incoming guys need to be broken down and rebuilt into our style. Once they've mastered that, only then can they add back in some of their own individual style.
For Brands that means defense first, push and shove guys forward, and attack only when the opponent is off-balance or out of position. For Smith, defense first, step backward, induce bad shots and counter. Santoro, block and hand fight. Ryan, gym tan laundry. Pitt, hug the boundary and order escorts at Midlands. Etc.
Smith changed with then refs more aggressively called stalls and when the boundary rules changed. (Brock sticking Brewer as a true freshman probably didn't hurt.) What would cause Brands to change?
IMO a superior true freshman like Lee who is championship ready upon arrival, and Brands doesn't have time to break down and rebuilt. OK, great, but is it too late for the rest of the team? Put another way, who else could be set loose without setbacks (and it would take)? Kemerer and Warner, yes. Marinelli and Cassioppi, probably. Lugo, maybe. Murin and Young, unlikely. Stoll, that's funny.
So it comes back to recruiting. Brands has primarily landed guys who fit his mold, not guys who can break his mold. Until he changes that, doesn't matter at the team level, and it will be up to special individuals to break through on their own.
Plus Brands needs to be less hard headed about his philosophy.
Sounds like he needs to study the 3 inch binder this offseason.
We're very fortunate that Cael doesn't impose a team style. Everyone leverage your own individual strengths from the beginning. Just score points.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
I just watched the video multiple times in slow motion. If you're seeing 2 seconds worth of back exposure then you must be new to the sport.
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