Is it fair to charge students an athletic fee? Two of top fees are in the BT.

[Class of 67]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/why-students-foot-the-bill-for-college-sports-and-how-some-are-fighting-back/2015/11/30/7ca47476-8d3e-11e5-ae1f-af46b7df8483_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_ncaa-fees-315pm:homepage/story

UVA leads P5 public schools with a $657 fee that pulls in over $13m annually. New BT members MD and Rutgers are next, each making over $10m annually. (No info on PSU.) Clemson uniquely has no athletic fee and no student ticket charge. Some students are revolting, because fees go toward such things as stadium expansions and fired coaches contract obligations. The charge when I was at Penn State long ago was palatable, because I got into all athletic events, including football, for free. But what about the students who had no interest or time to attend? Rising student athletic fees and paying athletes are two of several issues that may introduce uncertainty into the future viability of college athletics as we know it, except among a closing circle of schools.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/why-students-foot-the-bill-for-college-sports-and-how-some-are-fighting-back/2015/11/30/7ca47476-8d3e-11e5-ae1f-af46b7df8483_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_ncaa-fees-315pm:homepage/story

UVA leads P5 public schools with a $657 fee that pulls in over $13m annually. New BT members MD and Rutgers are next, each making over $10m annually. (No info on PSU.) Clemson uniquely has no athletic fee and no student ticket charge. Some students are revolting, because fees go toward such things as stadium expansions and fired coaches contact obligations. The charge when I was at Penn State long ago was palatable, because I got into all athletic events, including football, for free. But what about the students who had no interest or time to attend? Rising student athletic fees and paying athletes are two of several issues that may introduce uncertainty into the future viability of college athletics as we know it, except among a closing circle of schools.

At most of the "Big Time" programs, ICA expenses are well beyond out of control.

In general, the administration of ICA via ADs - the financial part anyway - is laughable.

Here at Penn State, ICA was - on at least a relative sense, and notwithstanding the complete FUBAR known as the STEP program that marred the 21st century - generally run with at least some basic common sense on the financial side.

Alas, those days are OVER.

PSU can now "run with the big dogs" when it comes to irresponsible financial mismanagement. Stuff like this (rising "athletics surcharges" tacked onto the bills of Students.....think for one moment how insane that entire concept is) will soon be SOP for PSU Athletics funding.

Tsunami has already been holding one bake sale after another........ "developing creative revenue streams", or something like that. Wasn't that one of tenets of her Five Year plan for ICA management?

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

At most of the "Big Time" programs, ICA expenses are well beyond out of control.

In general, the administration of ICA via ADs - the financial part anyway - is laughable.

Here at Penn State, ICA was - on at least a relative sense, and notwithstanding the complete FUBAR known as the STEP program that marred the 21st century - generally run with at least some basic common sense on the financial side.

Alas, those days are OVER.

PSU can now "run with the big dogs" when it comes to irresponsible financial mismanagement. Stuff like this (rising "athletics surcharges" tacked onto the bills of Students.....think for one moment how insane that entire concept is) will soon be SOP for PSU Athletics funding.

Tsunami has already been holding one bake sale after another........ "developing creative revenue streams", or something like that. Wasn't that one of tenets of her Five Year plan for ICA management?

Yeah, ICA under Curley was run with common sense on the financial side. I guess if you consider paying coaches peanuts, not renovating facilities, and doing very little marketing common sense......you're right.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

Yeah, ICA under Curley was run with common sense on the financial side. I guess if you consider paying coaches peanuts, not renovating facilities, and doing very little marketing common sense......you're right.

LOL. Well, I for one am much more comfortable......now that an expert, who understands the parameters, has chimed in.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

LOL. Well, I for one am much more comfortable......now that an expert, who understands the parameters, has chimed in.

I never claimed to be an expert.

But, people like you who bash anything Barbor has done are ridiculous.

Look, I have no idea if she's going to end up being a good AD or bad one. But what I do know is that things weren't rainbows and unicorns under Curley......and that's exactly what people like you fail to realize.

Just because something is different, or the way someone does something is different, doesn't mean its bad. It may not prove to be good either. We have no idea how things will turn out.

God forbid, if ICA does any marketing whatsoever........it's like the plague to some folks.

 

[Fayette_LION]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/why-students-foot-the-bill-for-college-sports-and-how-some-are-fighting-back/2015/11/30/7ca47476-8d3e-11e5-ae1f-af46b7df8483_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_ncaa-fees-315pm:homepage/story

UVA leads P5 public schools with a $657 fee that pulls in over $13m annually. New BT members MD and Rutgers are next, each making over $10m annually. (No info on PSU.) Clemson uniquely has no athletic fee and no student ticket charge. Some students are revolting, because fees go toward such things as stadium expansions and fired coaches contract obligations. The charge when I was at Penn State long ago was palatable, because I got into all athletic events, including football, for free. But what about the students who had no interest or time to attend? Rising student athletic fees and paying athletes are two of several issues that may introduce uncertainty into the future viability of college athletics as we know it, except among a closing circle of schools.

Athletic fees are nothing more than another revenue stream that is not controlled by some agency. It is also out of the view of the public unlike tuition. Every tuition adjustment is broadcast through the media but these fees are not. They raise them and you pay, no questions asked. Just like excessive parking fees during football season. They charge them and you pay. When the number of people requesting admission starts to fall or the seats in the stadium are not regularly occupied, you will get change. Until that happens................just keep paying.

 

[massimoManca II]

becoming abundantly clear that my 15yr old son, a HS sophomore, is unlikely to follow my path through PSU... strictly based on outrageous costs... wasn't even thinking about all of these ancillary BS fees

 

[StinkStankStunk]

"I never claimed to be an expert."
OK. Can't argue with that. Certainly was more than obvious anyway.

"But, people like you who bash anything Barbor has done are ridiculous.
Look, I have no idea if she's going to end up being a good AD or bad one."
Well, ignorance IS bliss.

"But what I do know is that things weren't rainbows and unicorns under Curley......and that's exactly what people like you fail to realize."
Really? Now that IS funny. More so than you could ever imagine.

"Just because something is different, or the way someone does something is different, doesn't mean its bad. It may not prove to be good either. We have no idea how things will turn out."
YOU may have no idea - that wouldn't surprise me at all. Anyone paying attention, with even a rudimentary level of knowledge, damn well has a LOT MORE than an "idea" of how things will turn out

"God forbid, if ICA does any marketing whatsoever........it's like the plague to some folks."
Marketing? We're talking about marketing? Since when? LOL


I am trying to imagine a scenario where one could put together a single post that more thoroughly demonstrates their ignorance.

But, no, I can't think of one. Your's takes the Blue Ribbon.

 

[MtNittany]

Put a cap on them, but bring back the swimming test!

 

[LemonEars]

The university can't print money. The money to run the university has to come from tuition, fees, or tax dollars. If the athletic fees were eliminated then tuition would go up to compensate for the eliminated fees. The other option is to cut back the money needed for athletic programs but nobody seems to want to do that.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

The university can't print money. The money to run the university has to come from tuition, fees, or tax dollars. If the athletic fees were eliminated then tuition would go up to compensate for the eliminated fees. The other option is to cut back the money needed for athletic programs but nobody seems to want to do that.

One edit:

"The other option is to cut back the money needed for athletic programs but nobody seems to want to do that"
should read as:
"The other option is to cut back the money spent on (NOT "needed for") athletic programs and athletic Administration (added) but nobody seems to want to do that"

But, your overall premise that all of the funds spent by the "black box" known as Penn State have to enter into that "black box" in one way shape or form.....which is why every expense needs to be appropriately vetted and stand up to the criteria of being a worthwhile investment.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

"I never claimed to be an expert."
OK. Can't argue with that. Certainly was more than obvious anyway.

"But, people like you who bash anything Barbor has done are ridiculous.
Look, I have no idea if she's going to end up being a good AD or bad one."
Well, ignorance IS bliss.

"But what I do know is that things weren't rainbows and unicorns under Curley......and that's exactly what people like you fail to realize."
Really? Now that IS funny. More so than you could ever imagine.

"Just because something is different, or the way someone does something is different, doesn't mean its bad. It may not prove to be good either. We have no idea how things will turn out."
YOU may have no idea - that wouldn't surprise me at all. Anyone paying attention, with even a rudimentary level of knowledge, damn well has a LOT MORE than an "idea" of how things will turn out

"God forbid, if ICA does any marketing whatsoever........it's like the plague to some folks."
Marketing? We're talking about marketing? Since when? LOL


I am trying to imagine a scenario where one could put together a single post that more thoroughly demonstrates their ignorance.

But, no, I can't think of one. Your's takes the Blue Ribbon.

Okay genius, let's see how you think Barbour is doing a bad job or destroying ICA.

How do those paying attention have a lot more than an idea of how things will turn out? I've got my tinfoil hat ready. You're right........Curley did a great job. Everything was wonderful during his tenure.

 

[fairgambit]

becoming abundantly clear that my 15yr old son, a HS sophomore, is unlikely to follow my path through PSU... strictly based on outrageous costs... wasn't even thinking about all of these ancillary BS fees

Both my daughters graduated from Penn State (within 2 years of each other) and, while it was a struggle, we were able to pay for it all without student loans. We could not do that today. I do think the costs are out of control and the general refrain by apologists is "if you want quality (professors, facilities, etc), you have to pay for it". I will buy that to a point, but I think that our "leadership" makes limited efforts to control costs and then uses the quality issue as an excuse. When my daughters were making their college choice, I left it up to them but hoped they would chose Penn State. If they were making that choice today, based upon costs and on how this place is run, I would still let them make the choice, but I would hope they would go elsewhere.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

Okay genius, let's see how you think Barbour is doing a bad job or destroying ICA.

How do those paying attention have a lot more than an idea of how things will turn out? I've got my tinfoil hat ready. You're right........Curley did a great job. Everything was wonderful during his tenure.

You can lead a horse to water.....but you can't make him think.


Or, something like that

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

You can lead a horse to water.....but you can't make him think.


Or, something like that

You can also keep posting generalities that fail to answer questions too.

Seriously.....are you Tim Curley?

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Both my daughters graduated from Penn State (within 2 years of each other) and, while it was a struggle, we were able to pay for it all without student loans. We could not do that today. I do think the costs are out of control and the general refrain by apologists is "if you want quality (professors, facilities, etc), you have to pay for it". I will buy that to a point, but I think that our "leadership" makes limited efforts to control costs and then uses the quality issue as an excuse. When my daughters were making their college choice, I left it up to them but hoped they would chose Penn State. If they were making that choice today, based upon costs and on how this place is run, I would still let them make the choice, but I would hope they would go elsewhere.

Tuition costs are definitely out of control.

For many majors at PSU, it's quickly approaching a point where the cost doesn't come close to equaling the value of the degree. If a student can go to Local State U for 1/2 the price for a Liberal Arts degree......what's the point of going to PSU?

Sure, PSU provides the best value proposition for engineering, science and technology-related degrees......but others you have to seriously question if it's worth it.

 

[lein]

No, it is a transfer tax. A student has to give up their time and money to provide welfare to an athletic dept.

 

[Art]

To begin to grasp what goes on in college athletic departments, start with baby steps like asking "why does my/this school have/need a golf teams(s)?" I have nothing against golf or students that play it, but why?

 

[CF LION]

Tuition costs are definitely out of control.

For many majors at PSU, it's quickly approaching a point where the cost doesn't come close to equaling the value of the degree. If a student can go to Local State U for 1/2 the price for a Liberal Arts degree......what's the point of going to PSU?

Sure, PSU provides the best value proposition for engineering, science and technology-related degrees......but others you have to seriously question if it's worth it.

A few years ago I was talking to someone in an Admin position at one of the PSAC schools, and the topic of the cost of tuition came up. She told me that she was advising one of her nieces who was unsure of her course of study to take classes at a community college for a few years, then transfer in to her PSAC school as a junior. This approach would save her family a boat load of money. Obviously this would mean sacrificing the full college experience for a few years, but is a sensible approach for many.

 

[Still in State College]

To begin to grasp what goes on in college athletic departments, start with baby steps like asking "why does my/this school have/need a golf teams(s)?" I have nothing against golf or students that play it, but why?

That is where everything starts. It is a hard discussion to have because you have to look at the purpose of collegiate athletics. If you take away every program that loses money you don't have many programs and you certainly don't comply with Title IX.

The BOT just approved moving forward with another Lasch Building renovation. I think they are going to total around $20M since 2012. All reportedly to be raised by private donations which they are just about ready to kick off the fundraising effort. The goal to keep up with everyone else is going to ultimately kill big time college athletics and that might not be a bad thing. Also might be time for the NCAA to demand payments from the NFL and NBA for running their minor leagues for them.

 

[jj410]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/why-students-foot-the-bill-for-college-sports-and-how-some-are-fighting-back/2015/11/30/7ca47476-8d3e-11e5-ae1f-af46b7df8483_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_ncaa-fees-315pm:homepage/story

UVA leads P5 public schools with a $657 fee that pulls in over $13m annually. New BT members MD and Rutgers are next, each making over $10m annually. (No info on PSU.) Clemson uniquely has no athletic fee and no student ticket charge. Some students are revolting, because fees go toward such things as stadium expansions and fired coaches contract obligations. The charge when I was at Penn State long ago was palatable, because I got into all athletic events, including football, for free. But what about the students who had no interest or time to attend? Rising student athletic fees and paying athletes are two of several issues that may introduce uncertainty into the future viability of college athletics as we know it, except among a closing circle of schools.

Universities are now run for the greater glory of their administrators. Students and taxpayers are considered irrelevant, except as sources of income. Why should athletics be different?

 

[Class of 67]

Also might be time for the NCAA to demand payments from the NFL and NBA for running their minor leagues for them.

This may never happen, but there sure is some validity to your point. Not having to fund minor leagues saves the NFL and NBA money, and makes a mockery to some extent of "student-athletes," particularly regarding basketball's "one-and-done."

 

[androcles]

...just a thought...

...why not assign a "value" to each player drafted in each round on draft day?...

...maybe $500,000 for a 1st rounder, $400,000 for second, $300,000 for 3rd round round...

..the money goes to the institution from which he graduated...

...what say you?...

...

 

[Tom McAndrew]

becoming abundantly clear that my 15yr old son, a HS sophomore, is unlikely to follow my path through PSU... strictly based on outrageous costs... wasn't even thinking about all of these ancillary BS fees

This entire thread seems to have gone a little crazy. The OP raised a general question (based on an article) and indicated that he had no idea what PSU did. StinkStankStunk then came along and focused the discussion on PSU, but did not provide info on the fees that were raised by the OP.

I'm pulling mmII's post to respond to, and also to provide some response to the OP.

PSU does not charge fees to students that support intercollegiate athletics. Funds from football, BB, and wrestling (ticket sales, advertising, TV & radio) and from the BTN, as well as private donations, pay for these expenses.

PSU students that choose to get football tix pay for those tix. I believe students also pay for BB tix, while all other sporting events are free for students.

There are currently 3 fees that PSU charges students, above tuition and room & board. These are:

1) Student Activity Fee - "The purpose of the student activity fee is to improve students' out-of-class experiences at all campus locations and to improve retention and recruitment of students. Each campus has established a student-run committee that will allocate these funds. Income from the student activity fee will be used to increase the number and quality of such activities as clubs and organizations, recreational and fitness programs, lectures, music and cultural programs, and other campus programs related to the total learning environment."
2) Student Facilities Fee - "The student facilities fee has been established effective with the Fall Semester 2008 to provide a funding source for capital projects designed to enhance student activities, fitness and recreation. Projects to be undertaken at each campus will be identified by the appropriate campus officials. Student input will be obtained in determining priorities and ideas for potential projects through campus advisory groups that represent all constituencies."
3) Information Technology Fee - "An information technology fee is charged to all undergraduate and graduate students at all campus locations. Penn State Access Accounts are made available to all students to provide unrestricted access to Penn State's computing facilities as well as electronic mail, the World Wide Web, and key information services, such as encyclopedias and governmental data. For students who have their own computers, income from the fee provides connections to the University's network and information services. The funds also provide direct support for computer services at each individual campus location. Examples include the purchase of microcomputers and software for student laboratories, consulting, and workstations."

I believe the fees for the aforementioned are, per semester, as follows:

1) 95.00
2) 124.00
3) 252.00

mmII, you'd be paying out-of-state tuition for your kids were they to attend PSU. You'll find that most colleges are charging various fees above and beyond tuition and room & board, and that PSU's fees are essentially a non-factor in determining whether PSU is affordable or not to you/your kids.

 

[aferrelli]

To begin to grasp what goes on in college athletic departments, start with baby steps like asking "why does my/this school have/need a golf teams(s)?" I have nothing against golf or students that play it, but why?

I hope you are kidding. A university needs to cater to a diverse group of people. That's why it's a
UNIVERSE-ity.

 

[Art]

I hope you are kidding. A university needs to cater to a diverse group of people. That's why it's a
UNIVERSE-ity.

Either my sarcasm meter need to be retuned or this is the worst justification for having any kind of athletic team that I've ever read.

 

[Marshall30]

I remember the student activity fee and security deposit. Beyond those 2, I don't remember much more.

 

[lein]

That is where everything starts. It is a hard discussion to have because you have to look at the purpose of collegiate athletics. If you take away every program that loses money you don't have many programs and you certainly don't comply with Title IX.

The BOT just approved moving forward with another Lasch Building renovation. I think they are going to total around $20M since 2012. All reportedly to be raised by private donations which they are just about ready to kick off the fundraising effort. The goal to keep up with everyone else is going to ultimately kill big time college athletics and that might not be a bad thing. Also might be time for the NCAA to demand payments from the NFL and NBA for running their minor leagues for them.

For title IX compliance, simply ask half of the football team to identify as a female. That is how the DOE rolls these days when dealing with high school locker rooms

 

[aferrelli]

Either my sarcasm meter need to be retuned or this is the worst justification for having any kind of athletic team that I've ever read.

So maybe your justification for having a team is one that creates revenue for the school. If that's the criterion, then every school would have only 2-3 sports. Would that make sense to you?

Are you republican? LOL

 

[Art]

So maybe your justification for having a team is one that creates revenue for the school. If that's the criterion, then every school would have only 2-3 sports. Would that make sense to you?

Are you republican? LOL

My criteria are revenue and attendance. Why have teams that nobody watches? Oh, yes, "diversity." People who play sports that no one cares about have feelings, too.