It never ends: PS paying $1.3M NCAA legal fees vs Corman.
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Even when caught red handed in their "bluff" of PSU, the NCAA...
continued to make our BOT their little bitch!!!
continued to make our BOT their little bitch!!!
And all to protect a group of individuals in the Board of Trustees who didn't do the right thing.
It all boils down to that very core issue.
It all boils down to that very core issue.
Absolutely ridiculous, OPM is easy to spend. What has our University
become? It is an entity that I do not recognize anymore.
become? It is an entity that I do not recognize anymore.
The optics on this are ridiculously poor. Having said that, ...
One has to wonder to what extent Wolf's budgeted increase to PSU was a quid pro quo for this gesture. By my (reverse engineered) fuzzy math, we're getting back the $48M from the NCAA plus another million & change. Coincidence?
One has to wonder to what extent Wolf's budgeted increase to PSU was a quid pro quo for this gesture. By my (reverse engineered) fuzzy math, we're getting back the $48M from the NCAA plus another million & change. Coincidence?
With Corman's new position, I'm sure they did not want to piss him off
He does control a lot that impacts PSU in the future. WE should never pay the NCAA bill for extorting us.
He does control a lot that impacts PSU in the future. WE should never pay the NCAA bill for extorting us.
We're on the same page. I'm just curious if this was a backdoor deal
Something like: "Hey Penn State, if you help us show the taxpayers that they didn't foot the legal bill for this thing, we'll put those taxpayer dollars (plus) back in your budget."
Something like: "Hey Penn State, if you help us show the taxpayers that they didn't foot the legal bill for this thing, we'll put those taxpayer dollars (plus) back in your budget."
it was PSU & NCAA vs The State of PA and Corman
so that makes sense from a purely tactical standpoint. But it does boggle the mind to see PSU siding with the NCAA on anything. As we all know, this comes down to the BOT and their horrible decisions. At this point, they all know that they were horrible; as do we. Only one, that I know of, came out and said that they made horrible decisions. The rest are all horrible leaders.
so that makes sense from a purely tactical standpoint. But it does boggle the mind to see PSU siding with the NCAA on anything. As we all know, this comes down to the BOT and their horrible decisions. At this point, they all know that they were horrible; as do we. Only one, that I know of, came out and said that they made horrible decisions. The rest are all horrible leaders.
I don't recall much celebration outside of campus. Disappointment
was the sentiment I recall seeing (& feeling) most commonly.
was the sentiment I recall seeing (& feeling) most commonly.
Re: FWIW...this was known (and announced) back on 1/16/15...
Wonder if I could get the BOT to pay off the last 16 months of my mortgage...hell, they pay for everything else. What's Lubrano's email?
Wonder if I could get the BOT to pay off the last 16 months of my mortgage...hell, they pay for everything else. What's Lubrano's email?
At some point in almost any body of this type, there would
come a day when selling out your beneficiary ( the trustees are fiduciaries, the University their beneficiary) and pi$$ing its money away hand over fist, would go too far, and there would be a reaction. That does not seem to be happening here. It appears that no case can be settled around our trustees without the majority of them agreeing to give away a bunch more of the University's money.
Thus, if the Paternos care about PSU as much as they seem to, then they are going to have to insist that a judge and jury make the call aand say who pays what. Even then we may have to restrain them.
So, as Zenophile said, let's do a little back of the envelope calculation. PSU and Corman settle with the NCAA. PS pays the 48 mil and the attorney fees and gets a contemporaneous promise that 49 mil will be added to this years appropriation. So the State of PA paid the last 48 million of the fine, even while not admitting to the taxpayers that is what they are doing. Of course, PSU needs that extra 49 million, not to pay fines with but to do the things a University is supposed to do.
come a day when selling out your beneficiary ( the trustees are fiduciaries, the University their beneficiary) and pi$$ing its money away hand over fist, would go too far, and there would be a reaction. That does not seem to be happening here. It appears that no case can be settled around our trustees without the majority of them agreeing to give away a bunch more of the University's money.
Thus, if the Paternos care about PSU as much as they seem to, then they are going to have to insist that a judge and jury make the call aand say who pays what. Even then we may have to restrain them.
So, as Zenophile said, let's do a little back of the envelope calculation. PSU and Corman settle with the NCAA. PS pays the 48 mil and the attorney fees and gets a contemporaneous promise that 49 mil will be added to this years appropriation. So the State of PA paid the last 48 million of the fine, even while not admitting to the taxpayers that is what they are doing. Of course, PSU needs that extra 49 million, not to pay fines with but to do the things a University is supposed to do.
Understand this will not be well received but....
we can only control what we can control. We cannot control what the current BOT will do so our recourse is to vote them out every time we have the opportunity. And since 11/11 we have done precisely that. The BOT, present and future, is going to do a lot of dumb things. Could be paying the NCAA's share of the legal fees, buildng new buildings, purchasing land, etc...These things are not subject to public referendum. The reality is PSU could decide tomorrow or next year to make yet another donation of $60 million to fight child abuse and there is nothing we can do about it.
My point is, we should not forego accepting good outcomes, such as getting our wins back and ending sanctions, because the BOT is going to continue to do objectionable things that we cannot control. Remember, the Corman suit had nothing to do with legal fees. If anyone is seriously suggesting Corman should not have settled because he did not want PSU to pay legal fees, I would respectfully suggest you are missing the big picture.
There are other avenues available to address the ongoing grievances - Paterno et al suit, federal investigation,Mr. Lubrano and other trustees search/review of documents, Bagwell's RTK requests, etc... You don't achieve total victory in the 1st quarter of a football game. You keep on plugging away, win each individual play and move on to the next play and win that one.
we can only control what we can control. We cannot control what the current BOT will do so our recourse is to vote them out every time we have the opportunity. And since 11/11 we have done precisely that. The BOT, present and future, is going to do a lot of dumb things. Could be paying the NCAA's share of the legal fees, buildng new buildings, purchasing land, etc...These things are not subject to public referendum. The reality is PSU could decide tomorrow or next year to make yet another donation of $60 million to fight child abuse and there is nothing we can do about it.
My point is, we should not forego accepting good outcomes, such as getting our wins back and ending sanctions, because the BOT is going to continue to do objectionable things that we cannot control. Remember, the Corman suit had nothing to do with legal fees. If anyone is seriously suggesting Corman should not have settled because he did not want PSU to pay legal fees, I would respectfully suggest you are missing the big picture.
There are other avenues available to address the ongoing grievances - Paterno et al suit, federal investigation,Mr. Lubrano and other trustees search/review of documents, Bagwell's RTK requests, etc... You don't achieve total victory in the 1st quarter of a football game. You keep on plugging away, win each individual play and move on to the next play and win that one.
When you say something like this.......
"our recourse is to vote them out every time we have the opportunity"
Knowing full well that WE HAVE NO FURTHER RECOURSE to voting any of the scumbags out.(I would have to think you are aware of that, are you not?
or, ..."such as getting our wins back and ending sanctions"
Again, knowing (one would suppose) that no sanctions were ended - aside from the inclusion of "409" back into the record books......
It has to bring into question the motivation for your entire post.
Just sayin'
"our recourse is to vote them out every time we have the opportunity"
Knowing full well that WE HAVE NO FURTHER RECOURSE to voting any of the scumbags out.(I would have to think you are aware of that, are you not?
or, ..."such as getting our wins back and ending sanctions"
Again, knowing (one would suppose) that no sanctions were ended - aside from the inclusion of "409" back into the record books......
It has to bring into question the motivation for your entire post.
Just sayin'
Twenty years of nonsense, long before Sandusky
"We" invited these jackals in. We wanted to play with the big boys on the east coast when it came to corporate dollars. We wanted to elevate the university's prestige. We wanted less local and more captains of industry on our BOT.
What we got is a bunch of creeps and a few of the local turds left over.
NOW WE ARE PAYING THE PRICE.
This post was edited on 3/10 12:16 PM by ApexLion
"We" invited these jackals in. We wanted to play with the big boys on the east coast when it came to corporate dollars. We wanted to elevate the university's prestige. We wanted less local and more captains of industry on our BOT.
What we got is a bunch of creeps and a few of the local turds left over.
NOW WE ARE PAYING THE PRICE.
This post was edited on 3/10 12:16 PM by ApexLion
I support our alumni elected trustees but it's easy to see why they have detractors
- They don't defend PSU when the Freeh report comes out, and then later express regret
- They vote for the victim settlements, and then later express regret
- They vote to put Erickson's name on a building, and then later express regret
- They vote for the Corman settlement, and then later express regret
I realize they are up against a very powerful axis of evil, but there seems to be a pattern here
In fairness......
of the 9 elected trustees at the time of the Freeh report....6 were voted out of office at the first available opportunity, and the other 3 (IIRC) Lubrano, Adam T, and McCombie had just taken "office".
I do recognize the broader point of your post.....and I agree with the gist.
I do believe that the elected trustees - as a whole - may now be recognizing just what an evil pit of scumbags it is that controls PSU. If there is now that recognition we can hopefully move forward more appropriately and effectively.
Someone posted something in an earlier thread to the effect that it was important to "play nice with Jake C - since he has a lot of power in Harisburg"....to that, I would respond that IMHO you don't play nice with any bastard who stabs you in the back. If they do have power (which Jake certainly has) you work to remove or mitigate that power - be exposing him for what he is.
Similarly, it has taken quite a while - IMHO - for a lot of folks to start to realize that you cannot debate, discuss, or compromise with the scoundrels who pirated the BOT......they will take anything you give them - and respond by stealing the rest.
of the 9 elected trustees at the time of the Freeh report....6 were voted out of office at the first available opportunity, and the other 3 (IIRC) Lubrano, Adam T, and McCombie had just taken "office".
I do recognize the broader point of your post.....and I agree with the gist.
I do believe that the elected trustees - as a whole - may now be recognizing just what an evil pit of scumbags it is that controls PSU. If there is now that recognition we can hopefully move forward more appropriately and effectively.
Someone posted something in an earlier thread to the effect that it was important to "play nice with Jake C - since he has a lot of power in Harisburg"....to that, I would respond that IMHO you don't play nice with any bastard who stabs you in the back. If they do have power (which Jake certainly has) you work to remove or mitigate that power - be exposing him for what he is.
Similarly, it has taken quite a while - IMHO - for a lot of folks to start to realize that you cannot debate, discuss, or compromise with the scoundrels who pirated the BOT......they will take anything you give them - and respond by stealing the rest.
also, they have little to no power
the way the board is set up, with their "secrecy" and "unanimous" voting, we have no idea what really goes on at the meetings. Only recently, with Lubby standing up, have we seen anything into the inner workings of the BOT. And, even today, the voting bloc is in the minority. So they can go do whatever they want, but it won't make much difference. With the media being very shy, perhaps due to their outrageous stance when this all came down, there aren't a lot of options.
Corman, at least, exposed a lot of crap. Hopefully, Paterno will "finish the run" and expose the BOT and their henchmen in totality.
the way the board is set up, with their "secrecy" and "unanimous" voting, we have no idea what really goes on at the meetings. Only recently, with Lubby standing up, have we seen anything into the inner workings of the BOT. And, even today, the voting bloc is in the minority. So they can go do whatever they want, but it won't make much difference. With the media being very shy, perhaps due to their outrageous stance when this all came down, there aren't a lot of options.
Corman, at least, exposed a lot of crap. Hopefully, Paterno will "finish the run" and expose the BOT and their henchmen in totality.
You are missing the point...
Of course the Corman was not about legal fees, everyone knows that. But in the end, to settle he asked for his legal fees to be paid. So who was going to pay them? The NCAA who his suit was focused upon? Nope. PSU paid them.
The NCAA was on the ropes and wanted badly for months to settle, yet PSU got bitch slapped again by the NCAA and picked up another $1.3 million of pain. In essence, PSU paid to get the wins back, the vacation of which we were bluffed into accepting in the first place. Just fvcking mind numbing leadership...
This post was edited on 3/10 1:41 PM by Mixolydian
Of course the Corman was not about legal fees, everyone knows that. But in the end, to settle he asked for his legal fees to be paid. So who was going to pay them? The NCAA who his suit was focused upon? Nope. PSU paid them.
The NCAA was on the ropes and wanted badly for months to settle, yet PSU got bitch slapped again by the NCAA and picked up another $1.3 million of pain. In essence, PSU paid to get the wins back, the vacation of which we were bluffed into accepting in the first place. Just fvcking mind numbing leadership...
This post was edited on 3/10 1:41 PM by Mixolydian
Re: You are missing the point...
Mixo - I get that completely. No doubt about it. But I ask, rhetorically, why is anyone surprised by the fact that PSU agreed to pay the legal fees instead of the NCAA? PSU and the NCAA have been in lock step on this the whole time so did anyone expect that all of a sudden PSU would say to the NCAA, "you pay, not us?" Of course the BOT was not going to agree to that.
But when I say the suit was not about the legal fees, that really is the point. In the US when a plaintiff sues for A, B, and C they cannot get the Court to give them D, E and F. That's not the way our legal system works. Judge Covey bent over backwards to help the plaintiffs get far more than they envisioned when the suit was filed. But she cannot give them things they never asked for. Sometimes the prudent thing to do is declare victory and move to the next battlefield.
Again, big picture, if 3 years ago someone told us the NCAA and PSU would cave, not only end all sanctions but rescind them, give back the wins and scholarships, would anyone here have said "only take that deal if someone else pays the legal bills"?
Mixo - I get that completely. No doubt about it. But I ask, rhetorically, why is anyone surprised by the fact that PSU agreed to pay the legal fees instead of the NCAA? PSU and the NCAA have been in lock step on this the whole time so did anyone expect that all of a sudden PSU would say to the NCAA, "you pay, not us?" Of course the BOT was not going to agree to that.
But when I say the suit was not about the legal fees, that really is the point. In the US when a plaintiff sues for A, B, and C they cannot get the Court to give them D, E and F. That's not the way our legal system works. Judge Covey bent over backwards to help the plaintiffs get far more than they envisioned when the suit was filed. But she cannot give them things they never asked for. Sometimes the prudent thing to do is declare victory and move to the next battlefield.
Again, big picture, if 3 years ago someone told us the NCAA and PSU would cave, not only end all sanctions but rescind them, give back the wins and scholarships, would anyone here have said "only take that deal if someone else pays the legal bills"?
Re: You are missing the point...
I don't think we disagree on that much here, but do remember they did not end "all sanctions". The $ part was not ended. This was just an add on to the bill and is simply ridiculous. At least split the fee for the optics. I wonder if we paid the NCAA's legal fees too? Who would be shocked?
I don't think we disagree on that much here, but do remember they did not end "all sanctions". The $ part was not ended. This was just an add on to the bill and is simply ridiculous. At least split the fee for the optics. I wonder if we paid the NCAA's legal fees too? Who would be shocked?
I think the hilarious aspect of this is that the basis of the original legislation was that Penn State is an arm of the PA government, therefore NCAA fine of $60M is basically a fine of PA and thus the money must be kept in PA. It's an argument with validity on some level.
Then the court case gets settled and Corman et al say "the state of PA wants someone to cover court costs" -- and PSU steps up to do so. But, per the previous argument, PSU is basically an arm of the state of PA, so using the same logic, Pennsylvania is paying the court costs.
Anyway, regardless of that circular logic, it's crazy that the NCAA isn't paying the court costs considering they were the ones who wanted to settle.
Then the court case gets settled and Corman et al say "the state of PA wants someone to cover court costs" -- and PSU steps up to do so. But, per the previous argument, PSU is basically an arm of the state of PA, so using the same logic, Pennsylvania is paying the court costs.
Anyway, regardless of that circular logic, it's crazy that the NCAA isn't paying the court costs considering they were the ones who wanted to settle.
"Anyway, regardless of that circular logic, it's crazy that the NCAA isn't paying the court costs considering they were the ones who wanted to settle."
If the terms of the "settlement" tell us anything, it is this......
PSU and Corman wanted to settle and kill this lawsuit.....one hell of a lot more than the NCAA.
The ONLY thing the NCAA gave up was allowing the victories to go back into a record book. PSU gave up EVERYTHING else.....and added in ADDITIONAL monetary penalties to boot. You tell me who wanted to settle the most?
This post was edited on 3/10 5:35 PM by bjf1984
This post was edited on 3/10 5:36 PM by bjf1984
If the terms of the "settlement" tell us anything, it is this......
PSU and Corman wanted to settle and kill this lawsuit.....one hell of a lot more than the NCAA.
The ONLY thing the NCAA gave up was allowing the victories to go back into a record book. PSU gave up EVERYTHING else.....and added in ADDITIONAL monetary penalties to boot. You tell me who wanted to settle the most?
This post was edited on 3/10 5:35 PM by bjf1984
This post was edited on 3/10 5:36 PM by bjf1984
