It's amazing that Hamels entire body of work(OT)

[PSUriseANDfire]

didn't already speak entirely for itself. He is an elite ace. I understand that there were hesitations given his last few outings before yesterday but come on...and now that start apparently has given the Phillies leverage. If the Rangers build a deal around Nomar Mozara that is going to be the deal the Phils would jump on, IMO. The thing that caught me is that we was touching 97 and even 98 on all guns.

@Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: Momentum building toward Hamels trade. Offers have improved since no-hitter. Teams asking for less money, offering better players.

@Ken_Rosenthal: The five teams with the most recent interest in Hamels: #Cubs, #Dodgers, #Rangers, #Yankees, #SFGiants. Not listed in any particular order.

 

[Michael.Felli]

If you would've told me back in 2007 that Hamels would be THE MAN pitching today and NOT Cliff Lee or Roy Halliday, I'd have thought you mad.

I've always underestimated Hamels. Not sure why, but I did. Over time, I'm sure I will appreciate his true impact to my Phillies and baseball.

 

[ptomaselli]

didn't already speak entirely for itself. He is an elite ace. I understand that there were hesitations given his last few outings before yesterday but come on...and now that start apparently has given the Phillies leverage. If the Rangers build a deal around Nomar Mozara that is going to be the deal the Phils would jump on, IMO. The thing that caught me is that we was touching 97 and even 98 on all guns.

@Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: Momentum building toward Hamels trade. Offers have improved since no-hitter. Teams asking for less money, offering better players.

@Ken_Rosenthal: The five teams with the most recent interest in Hamels: #Cubs, #Dodgers, #Rangers, #Yankees, #SFGiants. Not listed in any particular order.

Elite meaning eventual HOF or elite meaning one of the best pitchers in the game today? I'm thinking the second.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

Elite meaning eventual HOF or elite meaning one of the best pitchers in the game today? I'm thinking the second.

Absolutely the second. He has always been a victim of terrible run support(most likely because he goes up against a lot of other #1's) or he would have a lot more wins. So many times where he has taken a loss/no decision while giving up 3 or less runs and it's not all just who is starting for the other team. He has had full seasons of outright bad luck. I think the standard is changing already about 300 win pitchers. 200 will do it now. I think Schilling will eventually get in. There isn't going to be another 300 game winner. There were people talking about Pedro's 219 not being enough which is insanity. He dominated in a time compared to the rest of the league which wasn't ever done. It was all hitting and he was destroying everyone. Schilling not winning any CY Young's might cost him.

If Hamels pitches another 6-7 years adds another 100 wins or so and keeps his numbers on pace he will have a shot.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

I recommend this for Mack, an article from today's philly.com. You are not alone.

What gets left out about Hamels too often is this: He is tough. He has made at least 30 starts each of the last seven seasons, 295 in his career. He won 114 of them. He pitched well enough to win 30 more, with even adequate run support. He is the athlete most responsible for Philadelphia's only major professional sports championship over the last 32 years - the most valuable player of the 2008 National League Championship Series and the World Series. He was excellent in the 2010 and 2011 postseasons, when the Phillies didn't win a World Series. He is their best home-grown starting pitcher since Robin Roberts, and though that fact says an awful lot that isn't very good about the Phillies and their history and their inability, across generations, to develop starting pitchers, it says an awful lot that is very good about Hamels. There is a fine argument to be made that he is among the most underappreciated athletes to have played in this city.

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20150726_HED_ALL_CAPS.html#vJ1D4pHcxQTlAPD5.99

 

[dawgduice]

Hamels is clearly a top #1 guy. He is more than worth 2-3 top AAA prospects. Amaro has been wrong on much BUT not on the true value of Hamels. If the Phils do not get a fair offer then wait for the winter and maybe get even more Pitching is still the name of the game.
I hate the Yankees but WOW if they get Hamels !!!!

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

They have nothing to offer really aside from Judge and Severino and they won't trade him. The Rangers system isn't strong all the way through but they have a lot of bigtime prospects. I hope it's a bidding bar between them and the Dodgers. I guess the Pirates are officially out now. Maybe the Yankees have more that I am missing but there is a lot of other teams involved now that seem to have more to give than them.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

What can the Cubs give up? They're acting like they wanted him all weekend.

 

[dawgduice]

What can the Cubs give up? They're acting like they wanted him all weekend.

Don't know specifically but I read recently they have one of the best minor league programs. Heck if Cueto got the Reds two AAA guys and a AA guy then Hamels should get even more.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

Soler/Baez are the names that keep coming up. Both have good potential but aren't close to being centers of a deal

Don't know specifically but I read recently they have one of the best minor league programs. Heck if Cueto got the Reds two AAA guys and a AA guy then Hamels should get even more.

And Cueto is a rental. The money was never an issue with Hamels. Just talk trying to get his value down. To the Cubs or Dodgers his contract is a bargain.

Olney tweeted that the Yankees are unwilling to move Judge or Severino so they are WAY out.

The Cubs are going to try to center a deal around Baez or Soler and that wouldn't come close to anything the Rangers could do right now if they involve Mazara. Going to be interesting. Really starting to think the Phils are going to get blue chip prospects back.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

% likelihood he stays? Thanks for the comments, I don't pay enough attn to the league, just the Phils.

 

[LundyPSU]

I think the Phils need to move him now. Peak value and don't need to compete with the flooded free agent market for starting pitchers this offseason. Would love to get the Dodgers and Cubs in a bidding war (or even the Red Sox). Some elite prospects in their systems, although it seems the Dodgers wont move Seager or Urias. After that, it is a big dropoff for the Dodgers.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

Before yesterday I thought it was still 50/50 but now I think it's definitely going to happen. Think it will be the Rangers with the Cubs and Dodgers hopefully bringing the price up even more. The Red Sox still might come back in too. I was hoping it would be the Pirates. He has shown how durable he is and doesn't seem like a risky gamble to wait this out till the winter but if his arm suddenly fell off and there was nothing to show for it-that would be terrible. Nobody wants him traded but when you are rebuilding you have to make the move and what comes in return has to be a big part of it. The minor league system is starting to look pretty good again and this could be huge.
His value isn't going to get higher as he ages so the time is now. Eventually he will just become a rent-a-player like Cueto for 3 months(who still brought the Reds a top 50 prospect). The thing is that having a great pitcher during these few years will be fun once every five games but it will be on a terrible team that needs to think about the future. This winning streak has been so fun though.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

I get it that it's not beneficial to keep him at this stage, just wondering what people thought about the likelihood they can't move him. Thanks again for all the insight.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

I get it that it's not beneficial to keep him at this stage, just wondering what people thought about the likelihood they can't move him. Thanks again for all the insight.

I am still getting over them trading off all my favorite Phillies one by one. That team was a lot of good times. Rollins was the roughest on me by far but that trade was one of the best things Amaro has done. Couple solid guys that look good and Rollins looks cooked. Utley apparently would have never accepted any trade.

 

[cjrugger]

-Soler/Baez are the names that keep coming up. Both have good potential but aren't close to being centers of a deal

I think you are going to be very disapointed in the eventual haul if you feel Soler or Baez aren't close to being the center of a deal

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

You are right, though neither of them are nearly as high regarded as they once were. It's crazy considering their ages but the Rangers have a few guys that could work as the center. I don't think the Cubs would want to give up Soler+ another top notch prospect. Baez- NO interest. Crawford is on the way.

 

[LundyPSU]

Buy low on Baez and I would be happy. Of course, need much more in that deal from the Cubs. As for the Dodgers, Urias or Seager need to be included.

 

[cjrugger]

Buy low on Baez and I would be happy. Of course, need much more in that deal from the Cubs. As for the Dodgers, Urias or Seager need to be included.

Hahaha wowzers. You're going to be extremely disappointed

 

[lionroar88]

I was hoping Hamels would go to Baltimore, then I could actually start rooting for a local team. Don't think I'll ever be able to root for The Ravens, but The Os... definitely if they can land my favorite SP since Carlton! I would still be a Phillies fan, but I would have a favorite NL and AL team! I could never root for the Royals, Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees, or Cubs.

 

[zwick99]

didn't already speak entirely for itself. He is an elite ace. I understand that there were hesitations given his last few outings before yesterday but come on...and now that start apparently has given the Phillies leverage. If the Rangers build a deal around Nomar Mozara that is going to be the deal the Phils would jump on, IMO. The thing that caught me is that we was touching 97 and even 98 on all guns.

@Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: Momentum building toward Hamels trade. Offers have improved since no-hitter. Teams asking for less money, offering better players.

@Ken_Rosenthal: The five teams with the most recent interest in Hamels: #Cubs, #Dodgers, #Rangers, #Yankees, #SFGiants. Not listed in any particular order.

He is not an elite ace. He is a lower level ace. He gets very little run support because the lineup stinks but he also implodes in the games when he does get run support. He also took off the 2009 season.

 

[zwick99]

Absolutely the second. He has always been a victim of terrible run support(most likely because he goes up against a lot of other #1's) or he would have a lot more wins. So many times where he has taken a loss/no decision while giving up 3 or less runs and it's not all just who is starting for the other team. He has had full seasons of outright bad luck. I think the standard is changing already about 300 win pitchers. 200 will do it now. I think Schilling will eventually get in. There isn't going to be another 300 game winner. There were people talking about Pedro's 219 not being enough which is insanity. He dominated in a time compared to the rest of the league which wasn't ever done. It was all hitting and he was destroying everyone. Schilling not winning any CY Young's might cost him.

If Hamels pitches another 6-7 years adds another 100 wins or so and keeps his numbers on pace he will have a shot.

No. He gets little run support the same reason Lee and Halladay got little run support. The lineup stinks. He was also the #3 when the team had Halladay and Lee.

Phillies fans want to argue both sides. They defend the pitching because they get little run support but they also spent years defending Rollins, Utley and howard. Someone is to blame. THe lineup stunk for years. Utley's last 20 HR season was 2009. Rollins was a .240 hitter the last 5 years and Howard is the Big Rally KIller.

 

[LundyPSU]

Hahaha wowzers. You're going to be extremely disappointed

you think Baez is the best they can get?

 

[cjrugger]

you think Baez is the best they can get?

I think Baez would be a good centerpiece to a deal and the other players would be marginal and /or very far off. And I think Seager and Urias are untouchable

 

[NittanyAmerica]

On any other team he would be in the H of Fame, but with the Phillies ? Oh well, it is what it is...

N i t t a n y A m e r i c a

 

[LBCnova]

No. He gets little run support the same reason Lee and Halladay got little run support. The lineup stinks. He was also the #3 when the team had Halladay and Lee.

Phillies fans want to argue both sides. They defend the pitching because they get little run support but they also spent years defending Rollins, Utley and howard. Someone is to blame. THe lineup stunk for years. Utley's last 20 HR season was 2009. Rollins was a .240 hitter the last 5 years and Howard is the Big Rally KIller.

Roll

 

[LBCnova]

Rollins batted .253 his last five years in Philly with an OPS ranging from a subpar .667 to a shortstop above average .743.

 

[LundyPSU]

I think Baez would be a good centerpiece to a deal and the other players would be marginal and /or very far off. And I think Seager and Urias are untouchable

Dodgers are making Seager or Urias untouchable. But there is a big dropoff after them in their prospects to make a strong deal with LA. I like Baez, but I think they need more and will get it for Hamels.