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Jamel Dean CLEARED to play at Auburn, after being dq'd by Meyer...

21Guns

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Dec 10, 2013
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Clearly I recall the Ohio State spin machine saying that Dean "would never play again" because of his "injuries", and how "If anybody took him, it would be a back water college that didn't care about health"...

Well, well, well, looks like Jamel is CLEARED AND GOOD TO GO AT AUBURN.

Meyer continues to cut players, and invent false reasons in the media...
sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-d...-160905233.html
 
Clearly I recall the Ohio State spin machine saying that Dean "would never play again" because of his "injuries", and how "If anybody took him, it would be a back water college that didn't care about health"...

Well, well, well, looks like Jamel is CLEARED AND GOOD TO GO AT AUBURN.

Meyer continues to cut players, and invent false reasons in the media...
sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-d...-160905233.html

Anyone recall the great Ohio State fans and how they tracked all of the Alabama and LSU cuts every year? The indignation at Meyer for cutting players?

Where are they now?
 
We'll see. He can sign with Auburn, but that's no guarantee he'll ever see the field. He's had multiple knee injuries. It doesn't take much to turn an elite player into nothing. See Kijana after his multiple knee injuries.

And note that his HS coach is now an Auburn coach....
 
Clearly I recall the Ohio State spin machine saying that Dean "would never play again" because of his "injuries", and how "If anybody took him, it would be a back water college that didn't care about health"...

Well, well, well, looks like Jamel is CLEARED AND GOOD TO GO AT AUBURN.

Meyer continues to cut players, and invent false reasons in the media...
sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-d...-160905233.html
not so fast. This has happened many times, a team MD at one school says the kid cant play, and an MD somewhere else will clear them. It's not about cutting players, its trying to protect them. At Marshall we had a DE with back issues, our MD said he was risking never walking again if he played. He transferred to Temple, they let him play. It happens. I could name more if you like. In this case I don't think Urb was up to anything.
 
not so fast. This has happened many times, a team MD at one school says the kid cant play, and an MD somewhere else will clear them. It's not about cutting players, its trying to protect them. At Marshall we had a DE with back issues, our MD said he was risking never walking again if he played. He transferred to Temple, they let him play. It happens. I could name more if you like. In this case I don't think Urb was up to anything.

On a case by case basis it's hard to argue against Urbz. When it happens something like 9 times in his first 3 years. Ya have to wonder. He learned it from Saban. He brought that SEC mentality to OSU. He was always a great offensive coach. I think he got a few tips from Saban on how to build an absolute dominant program. He's gonna sign his 25 or 27 every year. Come hell. Or, high water.
 
On a case by case basis it's hard to argue against Urbz. When it happens something like 9 times in his first 3 years. Ya have to wonder. He learned it from Saban. He brought that SEC mentality to OSU. He was always a great offensive coach. I think he got a few tips from Saban on how to build an absolute dominant program. He's gonna sign his 25 or 27 every year. Come hell. Or, high water.

He cut five players last year...each time with a "reason"...

This is how it's done by Saban and Miles and Jimbo...and this is how Urban does it also. Of course, you can build a case by case defense....but 5 players in a year? How many in the past 3 years alone since he came aboard?

They'll take another 25 this year...somehow they take 25 players every single year...quite astonishing.
 
Clearly I recall the Ohio State spin machine saying that Dean "would never play again" because of his "injuries", and how "If anybody took him, it would be a back water college that didn't care about health"...

Well, well, well, looks like Jamel is CLEARED AND GOOD TO GO AT AUBURN.

Meyer continues to cut players, and invent false reasons in the media...
sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-d...-160905233.html
Clearly you heard wrong. They did not say any such thing. The OSU med staff simply did not clear him to play football. They knew he'd be able to walk fine and maybe be able to do some athletics, but they did not clear his ankle for big-time football...big difference. They also offered to continue to pay his scholarship with it not counting against the scholarship limit since he wouldn't be playing. Even so, Dean made the decision--on his own--that he wanted to continue to play football, and so had to go elsewhere. No surprise that an SEC team would go ahead and take him...
 
Clearly you heard wrong. They did not say any such thing. The OSU med staff simply did not clear him to play football. They knew he'd be able to walk fine and maybe be able to do some athletics, but they did not clear his ankle for big-time football...big difference. They also offered to continue to pay his scholarship with it not counting against the scholarship limit since he wouldn't be playing. Even so, Dean made the decision--on his own--that he wanted to continue to play football, and so had to go elsewhere. No surprise that an SEC team would go ahead and take him...

Dr. James Andrews cleared him. Ever hear of him?
 
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Does anyone care how monumentally stupid it would be for Meyer to "cut" an incoming freshman from a program where he has several future commits/targets, before he even played a down, for no reason except to clear a roster spot? If it were purely a roster move you'd see Cam Williams or Warren Ball suddenly be disqualified.
 
He cuts players and pulls in 25 per year, no matter what. That's crooked.

Spin it all day long and into the night, it's crooked and so is Meyer.
 
[QUOTE="21Guns, post: 1 ... "If anybody took him, it would be a back water college that didn't care about health"...

[/QUOTE]
Auburn qualifies
 
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Dr. James Andrews cleared him. Ever hear of him?
No, he didn't "clear" him. Andrews' opinion was, quote "...that Dean needed continued rehab on his knee and should be ready to resume full activities this summer." Also, Andrews is not a university doctor so it's not his call.

Dean was offered a medical waiver, meaning fill tuition until he got his degree, and stay on campus. He turned it down, thinking he could still eventually play football. He was highly anticipated in his recruiting class and was going to fill a significant need in secondary depth. If Meyer wanted to "cut" someone it would've been a low-production player getting ready to enter his final year.

But don't let facts cloud your envy/hatred of Ohio State success.
 
He cuts players and pulls in 25 per year, no matter what. That's crooked.

Spin it all day long and into the night, it's crooked and so is Meyer.
Meyer's 2013 recruiting class had 24 signees, and his 2014 class had 23 signees. So, no, he doesn't pull in 25 players a year. Who's the one doing the spinning here?
 
Meyer's 2013 recruiting class had 24 signees, and his 2014 class had 23 signees. So, no, he doesn't pull in 25 players a year. Who's the one doing the spinning here?
No, he didn't "clear" him. Andrews' opinion was, quote "...that Dean needed continued rehab on his knee and should be ready to resume full activities this summer." Also, Andrews is not a university doctor so it's not his call.

Dean was offered a medical waiver, meaning fill tuition until he got his degree, and stay on campus. He turned it down, thinking he could still eventually play football. He was highly anticipated in his recruiting class and was going to fill a significant need in secondary depth. If Meyer wanted to "cut" someone it would've been a low-production player getting ready to enter his final year.

But don't let facts cloud your envy/hatred of Ohio State success.
Hate? Yes! Envy? No. We know how you get 25 per year.
 
The kid was cut. He was not given a chance to get well from his "injury". If you are a parent and you let your kid play football at Urban Meyers factory, know this: 5 out of every class of 25, will be gone in two years. That's 20%. If you allow your kid to take that kind of a chance with his football career AND his college education, you deserve what you get.
 
The kid was cut. He was not given a chance to get well from his "injury". If you are a parent and you let your kid play football at Urban Meyers factory, know this: 5 out of every class of 25, will be gone in two years. That's 20%. If you allow your kid to take that kind of a chance with his football career AND his college education, you deserve what you get.

That's true in almost *any* program. Ever read "For the Glory", which followed a class of players from recruitment through their senior season?? And that was JoePa's Penn State.
 
That's true in almost *any* program. Ever read "For the Glory", which followed a class of players from recruitment through their senior season?? And that was JoePa's Penn State.
I have not read the book but I have followed Coach Paterno as much as anyone, and I cannot recall of a single player who he cut. If there are examples, then I stand corrected.
 
The kid was cut. He was not given a chance to get well from his "injury". If you are a parent and you let your kid play football at Urban Meyers factory, know this: 5 out of every class of 25, will be gone in two years. That's 20%. If you allow your kid to take that kind of a chance with his football career AND his college education, you deserve what you get.
Who's college education was cut short?
 
I have not read the book but I have followed Coach Paterno as much as anyone, and I cannot recall of a single player who he cut. If there are examples, then I stand corrected.
I was thinking more along the lines of your "20%" comment. The class studied in that book (which I do not have in from of me) had a similar (or higher) attrition. And some of those were injured players who were offered the same thing that the tOSU player was offered--a medical release and a full scholarship, as Joe always made sure, when possible, that the kid would get the promised education--and that *was* to allow the scholarship to be used again. Heck, why do you think the NCAA's class limit is 25 even though you can only have 85. They know there will be attrition.
 
This is why there needs to be a CLEAR hard limit every year. Make it 23 and that is all you get every year. If you have a ton of transfers or injuries, guess what you may suck for a year or two. If you enroll people early and try and hide them, take those numbers off of next years class. Shirts are still available so over the course of 5 years you have 115 ships. If you shirt 15 and lose 15 to transfers, injuries, trouble or whatever you are still at 85. These coaches get paid 3-5 million a year at big schools and if they can't manage ships and keep it even where they aren't cutting kids, take that option away from them. PSU competed decent with about 45 or so active ships on the roster this year so it can be done with 70 or so with no real problem.

It's on the coach to evaluate players and extend the ship. If they get 23 a year an offer a kid who may or may not qualify, that is on them. If that kid doesn't qualify they don't get a do over. They have 22 for that year and too bad. God forbid these "GODS" that run these universities ever be held accountable for the 200k scholarships they are giving out. I'm over the 25/85 BS and it needs to be a hard limit every year. It will stop nonsense like this from occurring and make the coaches (all of them) actually accountable for the money they are being paid. Not to mention it levels the playing field from the oversigning pirates that run college football right now.
 
This is why there needs to be a CLEAR hard limit every year. Make it 23 and that is all you get every year. If you have a ton of transfers or injuries, guess what you may suck for a year or two. If you enroll people early and try and hide them, take those numbers off of next years class. Shirts are still available so over the course of 5 years you have 115 ships. If you shirt 15 and lose 15 to transfers, injuries, trouble or whatever you are still at 85. These coaches get paid 3-5 million a year at big schools and if they can't manage ships and keep it even where they aren't cutting kids, take that option away from them. PSU competed decent with about 45 or so active ships on the roster this year so it can be done with 70 or so with no real problem.

It's on the coach to evaluate players and extend the ship. If they get 23 a year an offer a kid who may or may not qualify, that is on them. If that kid doesn't qualify they don't get a do over. They have 22 for that year and too bad. God forbid these "GODS" that run these universities ever be held accountable for the 200k scholarships they are giving out. I'm over the 25/85 BS and it needs to be a hard limit every year. It will stop nonsense like this from occurring and make the coaches (all of them) actually accountable for the money they are being paid. Not to mention it levels the playing field from the oversigning pirates that run college football right now.
I been saying the same thing for years. Also limit it to signing 23 players. If one doesn't qualify once that official is when you can sign a replacement. No more over signing based on how many might not qualify.

It would also help in basketball. Allow 3 per year. If a school wants to take a one and done player well for the next 4 years you will just have to play with less scholarship players. This completely eliminates any shady deals.
 
We'll see. He can sign with Auburn, but that's no guarantee he'll ever see the field. He's had multiple knee injuries. It doesn't take much to turn an elite player into nothing. See Kijana after his multiple knee injuries.

And note that his HS coach is now an Auburn coach....
Ki-Jana injuries were 20 years ago. Treatment, rehab and surgury techniques have advanced since then. Also Ki-Jana had 4 season ending injuries in 5 years. I don't see how you can compare the two.
 
Ki-Jana injuries were 20 years ago. Treatment, rehab and surgury techniques have advanced since then. Also Ki-Jana had 4 season ending injuries in 5 years. I don't see how you can compare the two.

This kid had two in a year and a half. The only reason some folks are riled up about this here is that it's tOSU. Look, I want to beat them just as bad as *anyone* here. I live in Columbus. But I'm not going to rip them over what is reality in college football. In that book, For the Glory, of the 28 guys JoePa signed, 9 were gone before their 4th year of eligibility. Only 6 started for 2 years or more. At least one of those kids was a case just like the tOSU kids case. Look it up. See chapter 14 (which you can read *most* of on an Amazon preview). College football is rough and tough. Even at the best places.
 
No, he didn't "clear" him. Andrews' opinion was, quote "...that Dean needed continued rehab on his knee and should be ready to resume full activities this summer." Also, Andrews is not a university doctor so it's not his call.

Dean was offered a medical waiver, meaning fill tuition until he got his degree, and stay on campus. He turned it down, thinking he could still eventually play football. He was highly anticipated in his recruiting class and was going to fill a significant need in secondary depth. If Meyer wanted to "cut" someone it would've been a low-production player getting ready to enter his final year.

But don't let facts cloud your envy/hatred of Ohio State success.

If this kid contributes at Auburn (still a big "if"..I know), then this makes Urban look bad. There is no way you can deny that. He didn't stick with a kid that he and his program committed to when other programs believed in him. Time will tell
 
That's true in almost *any* program. Ever read "For the Glory", which followed a class of players from recruitment through their senior season?? And that was JoePa's Penn State.

I'm all for giving injured football players medical hardship scholarships after injuries. And I'm sure that OSU over the years has had its fair share of cases where the player is truly injured and can't play anymore. And it's a good thing that OSU offers the continuation of the injured kid's scholarship. Great, fabulous, this is what should be done. But in this case, we have a world renowned ortho examine the kid and say that he needs a bit more rehab and then can begin activities. That doesn't seem like the kid is injured to the point where he can't play again. Auburn taking him further solidifies this thought.
Sounds to me like in this particular instance, the staff/Meyer deciding that the kid is damaged goods and although he probably will be able to play football again "this is not what we were buying when we offered a scholly". Herein lies the rub.
 
If this kid contributes at Auburn (still a big "if"..I know), then this makes Urban look bad. There is no way you can deny that. He didn't stick with a kid that he and his program committed to when other programs believed in him. Time will tell

You could also argue that OSU stuck by him and didn't rescind his offer after his second injury but gave him a chance to play and when they found out the extent of his injuries OSU offered to honor the scholarship so he could still get an education. That, of course, is a much less interesting storyline.

I can understand him wanting to play and find another doctor who would give him hope that he could play. I hope it works out for him and he gets to live out his dream.

The issue is,however, ensuring the team doctor's have the final say on medical issues. Doctors can have differences of professional opinion and offer differing prognosis on how well a patient will recover. Maybe OSU's MD's were overly cautious, but that is better than letting a kid play when you suspect doing so will risk him to more severely injure himself. He's a highly touted 4* recruit, so if anything a coach would want to keep him on the roster, that OSU didn't is a positive reflection, IMHO, of how the doctors medical advice is followed. If you're going to roster manage you don't cut highly rated recruits even before they play. That he got on with a top program speaks highly of his talent and indicates he is the type of recruit a school would want to hang onto if they thought he was capable of being medically cleared at some point.

I'm all for giving injured football players medical hardship scholarships after injuries. And I'm sure that OSU over the years has had its fair share of cases where the player is truly injured and can't play anymore. And it's a good thing that OSU offers the continuation of the injured kid's scholarship. Great, fabulous, this is what should be done. But in this case, we have a world renowned ortho examine the kid and say that he needs a bit more rehab and then can begin activities. That doesn't seem like the kid is injured to the point where he can't play again. Auburn taking him further solidifies this thought.
Sounds to me like in this particular instance, the staff/Meyer deciding that the kid is damaged goods and although he probably will be able to play football again "this is not what we were buying when we offered a scholly". Herein lies the rub.

Two points:
His second injury was after he got the offer but they didn't pull it but honored it even when he was injured in his final game as a senior.

We can quibble over what Dr Andrew's said but absent actually reading his report no one knows. The reports I saw said Andrew's said "should be able..." which is a good sign but no guarantee. The OSU doctors apparently saw him just after the injury when he enrolled early at OSU and based their decision on what they saw then. I'd rater have a school go with their MD's first call than push back and second guess them because a kid is a 4 or 5*.

In the end, only time will tell what was the right call. I can't fault a kid from doing whatever it takes to follow his dreams. I also am not surprised that a school took a chance on him as it was a low risk way to get a 4* recruit. If he pans out they are the hero, if he gets reinjured then well, they thought he was OK but circumstances just didn't work out.

What will be interesting, absent the OSU connection, is how the increased focus on injuries playing football affects decisions to allow players to continue to play after injuries. Will we see more medical hardships as schools seek to limit liability for injuries suffered by players after they were cleared to play?
 
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I'm all for giving injured football players medical hardship scholarships after injuries. And I'm sure that OSU over the years has had its fair share of cases where the player is truly injured and can't play anymore. And it's a good thing that OSU offers the continuation of the injured kid's scholarship. Great, fabulous, this is what should be done. But in this case, we have a world renowned ortho examine the kid and say that he needs a bit more rehab and then can begin activities. That doesn't seem like the kid is injured to the point where he can't play again. Auburn taking him further solidifies this thought.
Sounds to me like in this particular instance, the staff/Meyer deciding that the kid is damaged goods and although he probably will be able to play football again "this is not what we were buying when we offered a scholly". Herein lies the rub.

Weeel, let's be real here. James Andrews is a world-famous surgeon, to be sure. But tOSU's docs are not exactly chopped liver either. They did play an enormous role in saving Adam, for example. And "beginning activities" does not mean a player will be able to actually play top level football. I wish the kid well and hope his dream works out or him. But I also hope he pays attention to his education, because that's what more likely will make a difference for him in life.
 
If this kid contributes at Auburn (still a big "if"..I know), then this makes Urban look bad. There is no way you can deny that. He didn't stick with a kid that he and his program committed to when other programs believed in him. Time will tell


This is the crux of the issue- time will tell. Predicting how people bounce back from musculoskeletal injuries (especially young people) isn't an exact science. People heal at different rates and with different limitations. The issue with regard to OSU will focus more on trends over the years given their need to 'adjust' the roster because of over signing.
 
If this kid contributes at Auburn (still a big "if"..I know), then this makes Urban look bad. There is no way you can deny that. He didn't stick with a kid that he and his program committed to when other programs believed in him. Time will tell
Again, the kid is the one who decided to bail after the OSU doctors said his knee would not hold up to the rigors of D-I college football. You expect Meyer to force the kid to play, and then when he shreds his knee again guess who you'll be blaming for pressuring the kid to play when the university doctor said not to. Your story would then be, "Urban Meyer's win-at-all-cost mentality ruins kids knee when school doctors didn't want him to play."
 
Again, the kid is the one who decided to bail after the OSU doctors said his knee would not hold up to the rigors of D-I college football. You expect Meyer to force the kid to play, and then when he shreds his knee again guess who you'll be blaming for pressuring the kid to play when the university doctor said not to. Your story would then be, "Urban Meyer's win-at-all-cost mentality ruins kids knee when school doctors didn't want him to play."

No...I wouldn't "expect Meyer to force the kid to play". I would expect Meyer to keep him on football scholarship against the 85 limit with the possibility that he can heal and return to play football eventually, instead of forcing an ending to his football career at OSU. James Andrews said that playing was still a possibility, so the kid "decided to bail" and continue his football career as well respected doctors said was a possibility for him. 30 other schools agreed.

Like I said, time will tell....Urban should have waited this out for the kid, even if it counted against his precious scholarship limit. Even if it took 3 years. It is the right thing to do. If this kid can play eventually, it makes him look like an ass.
 
Apparently you missed, or ignored, my post stating Meyer signed less than 25 in two of his classes...
Remind me...
How many did Urban sign in the 2015 class?
Remind me... what part of James Andrews stating "able to resume full activities" after a few weeks of rehab means he's unfit to play football?

Look, I don't "hate" urban Meyer or Ohio State or envy any success at all. I honestly don't have a huge problem if a kid is processed with the option of a "medical hardship," since they do get to keep a scholarship although they can't play for the team anymore, and can't always transfer elsewhere like Jarvis Jones did.
However, your complete and utter denial of what's going on is laughable. There's nothing wrong with simply admitting that "it's highly likely that the coaching staff felt uncomfortable about the kid ever being as good as he once was before injury, and they needed to get rid of 2 players to get down to 85, so they offered him the medical hardship option. The kid felt otherwise and is taking his chances at Auburn."

Instead, acting as if Ohio State is the angel in this instance, and James Andrews has no idea what he's talking about when he states that Dean can "resume full activities" after some more rehab is simply ridiculous. Be honest, if OSU only had 83 scholarship players on the roster right now, they would've simply let him rehab and see if he still had some left in the tank and then if it didn't work out, then they can say "look, your knee isn't responding as well, etc. etc. here's a medical hardship option." But since they're at 87, they pulled that card before he even had a shot to put on his cleats - and not because a torn ACL and a torn meniscus is some debilitating injury.

It really is ok to admit that not everything involved with your favorite college football team and program is completely holy and sacred. I promise you it won't hurt.
 
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No...I wouldn't "expect Meyer to force the kid to play". I would expect Meyer to keep him on football scholarship against the 85 limit with the possibility that he can heal and return to play football eventually, instead of forcing an ending to his football career at OSU. James Andrews said that playing was still a possibility, so the kid "decided to bail" and continue his football career as well respected doctors said was a possibility for him. 30 other schools agreed.

Like I said, time will tell....Urban should have waited this out for the kid, even if it counted against his precious scholarship limit. Even if it took 3 years. It is the right thing to do. If this kid can play eventually, it makes him look like an ass.
The OSU doctor said the knee would no longer hold up to the rigors of college football regardless of the amount of rehab. And I'm not sure where you heard about 30 other schools expressing interest in Dean AFTER being non-cleared by the OSU doctor. If they did decide to pursue Dean after James Andrews' second opinion, that still doesn't mean Meyer's taking his doctor's medical opinion of that of a complete outsider--regardless of notoriety--points to some conspiracy to open up a slot.
 
Remind me...
How many did Urban sign in the 2015 class?
He signed 27, because Michael Bennett (junior) declared early for the draft and Armani Reeves (junior) gave up football due to concussion issues, which enabled him to get two more recruits than he otherwise would have. Pretty simple actually...

Remind me... what part of James Andrews stating "able to resume full activities" after a few weeks of rehab means he's unfit to play football?
And as I mentioned earlier, OSU medical staff's opinion differed from Andrews' opinion. They had more invested in the future welfare of their own player rather than some celebrity doc who has no interest at all.
 
And I'm not sure where you heard about 30 other schools expressing interest in Dean AFTER being non-cleared by the OSU doctor.

It's in the article that started this thread

"Wilkinson told AL.com that 25-30 schools had contacted Dean after he announced his decision to transfer."
 
His second injury was after he got the offer but they didn't pull it but honored it even when he was injured in his final game as a senior.

It probably would have been better to pull the offer then to cut him early and make him go through the hassle of transferring.
 
He signed 27, because Michael Bennett (junior) declared early for the draft and Armani Reeves (junior) gave up football due to concussion issues, which enabled him to get two more recruits than he otherwise would have. Pretty simple actually...


And as I mentioned earlier, OSU medical staff's opinion differed from Andrews' opinion. They had more invested in the future welfare of their own player rather than some celebrity doc who has no interest at all.
Wait, an early draft entry and a medical hardship (funny how Reeves played in the championship though and didn't get injured in that game), "enabled" him to get two more recruits over the 25 limit?
Then how come Penn State didn't sign 28 players since they had 3 early entries into the draft this year (Smith, James, Barnes)? Oh wait, I know why. Because that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the 25 scholarship rule per class and what matters is the 85 scholarship limit. Oh, those two extra recruits? Had Urban Meyer at 88 scholarships - 3 over the 85 limit he needs to get down to by fall practice - hence why he had to free up a spot by declaring Dean "medically unfit" in the first place!
Thank you for proving my point.
And yeah, James Andrews is a "celebrity doctor," who is willing to risk his reputation on some high school kid he has "no interest in" at all. Makes perfect sense!
Jesus Christ it's horrifying to think there are people like you out on the road.
 
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