Bill's Intercept Ball in endzone.... methodically move it down the field using clock with all 3 TOs in their pocket (Ravens only had 2 remaining). Bills got into Ravens territory as 2-Minute warning hit. Then they got into scoring position on next play forcing Baltimore to use first timeout. They pick up another first inside 10.... Baltimore calls last TO, but it's game over as Bills don't even attempt to score TD - they allow clock to run on 2 consecutive plays, use their TO with 3 seconds left and kick FG. Bills win but entire ending set up by Harbaugh's inexplicable decision. You have to put yourself in the lead there - if nothing else, it forces Bills to move down field with urgency and attempt to take lead with TD. Even if Buffalo is successful, Ravens probably have around 2 minutes left to try and score themselves.
John Harbaugh just went for it on 4th-&-Goal from 2 yard line 4 minutes remaining, tie game... cost Ravens the game.
- Thread starter CJFisJoePaII
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Disagree, Ravens in a far better Strategic Position with a 3 Point lead 4 minutes and change to go. As it was, they turned the clock into the Bills greatest ally once they were able to consistently run the ball on Baltimore's exhausted defense. The clock would not have been the factor it was if Buffalo was forced to play from behind and with more urgency. Buffalo would not have taken the risk of running the clock out and playing for a tie - it's nonsensical to believe they would have.
Based on the time left in the game I definitely would’ve kicked the field goal. But if I was going to go for it I would’ve run some thing where Lamar was rolling to his right and dragging Andrews across to look for him or give Lamar the option to run.
it seemed like a really dumb call. My guess is if they take the 3 Buffalo has lots of time to tie or win as we saw. He was probably thinking worst case is Buff takes over on downs at the 2 and they force a punt with time remaining. He wasn't counting on the int which gave Buff some room starting at the 20. On the other end I wouldn't have done what Buff did either. I try and run it in with 25 seconds to go. I'd rather be up 7 and give Balt the ball with 25 seconds left and no TO's than risk the Gf even if it was a chip shot on a cold windy rainy day.
They just showed Harbaugh's post-game presser... he claims their in-house analytics said "go for it.... and that's what he did as he trusts his defense....". Bill Cower brought up a great point in disagreeing with the call - if you "trust your defense" you give them the lead and let them make it stand up. I'll also say that the Ravens internal analytics are flawed in that they have no evaluation of the loss of control of your destiny via the click when you give your opponent the ball in a tie-game only requiring a FG to win (they have to move the ball 40 yards less far for an attempt to win the game and if they have some early success in their ensuing possession, they can begin to use the clock as a lethal ally as they approach midfield (don't even have to be close to the endzone before they start milking clock to make sure they will either win on their FG attempt or go to OT). Again, not factoring in the value of controlling the lead is a huge error in their internet analytics imho.
Again, if you trust your defense to stop them cold at the 2, then you should at least trust your defenses ability to either make the lead stand up or at the very, very worst give up no worse than a FG (and in the latter case, the Bill's would not have been running the clock to zero so you would have had an opportunity to try to get your own FG for the win). It is illogical to say that you go for it there if you "trust your defense". If you "trust your defense", you give them the lead and let them make it stand up.
4 minutes is an eternity, plus they had all 3 TOuts. Bills could run or pass and would go for it every 4th down. As is they got the ball to the 1 yard line on 1st down with over 1 minute left. They could’ve easily scored a TD if they wanted to and the Balt FG would’ve meant nothing.
4 minutes is an eternity and you don't milk the clock when you're the team trailing genius. If you do get stopped early in the drive, you punt because you have 3 timeouts remaining and the 2 minute warning remaining! You don't go 4 downs just because there is only 4.5 minutes left when you have all 3 of your timeouts and the 2 minute warning remaining! If Harbaugh "trusted his defense" you put your team in the lead there - it's utterly illogical to say otherwise.
Because they chose to run the clock down and kick with no time left. Did you watch???
Cower’s a dinosaur. Asking an old defensive coach about going on 4th will yield a predictable answer. That defense you trusted so much gave up 80 yards in a 3 mins like nothing.
On the one hand you're saying that 4.5 minutes with all 3 timeouts is "an eternity", then you come right back with Buffalo being in a 4-down situation as soon as they would have gotten the ball if Ravens kick FG and kickoff??? Which is it because it can't be both. If 4.5 minutes and 3 TOs is an eternity, than the Bills weren't in an immediate 4-down situation upon receiving the ball trailing by 3.... you're arguments can't both be true.
I don't like the decision to let Lamar throw the ball and I would have kicked the FG but Buffalo's scoring 7 with that much time left considering how they played in the second half so you better make sure you have enough time left to score again. Harbaugh went for the TD because he, like the rest of us, knew they weren't stopping Buffalo and Buffalo's D is far better than Baltimore's.
Easy. 4 mins can both be an eternity for Buffalo to score and a situation where they’d go for it on 4th given Baltimore’s ability to move the chains running.
I just don’t understand how Balt gave up 80 yards in 3 mins (basically a TD but Buff opted for the walk off FG) but you think they wouldn’t have given up 80 yards in 3 mins if Balt had 23pts instead of 20. The defense didn’t do it’s job. It’s as simple as that.
Oh, so is that what Harbaugh meant by saying, "I was showing trust my defense" when asked specifically about the decision in his post game PC???
I semi agree with your last sentence. Think you call a TO with 6-8 seconds left and kick on 3rd down. If there’s a bad snap/hold in the rain you can fall on it, call another TO and kick again on 4th.
If you make the FG on 3rd you live with Baltimore receiving a KO with 3 seconds left and no Timeouts.
You can't be this big an idiot. No way Buffalo let's the clock merrily skip away early in their drive if they're trailing by 3. They are going to be trying to win the game outright so they aren't going to be attempting to burn clock as soon as they had success in their ensuing drive (they would have been moving with more urgency. Beyond that, you're frigging nuts if you think Buffalo would have been going for it in their own territory down 3 with over two minutes remaining and all their timeouts. Utter nonsense. The circumstances created by the game being tied when the Bills got the ball versus being down 3 when they got the ball are not analogous despite your attempts to claim they are.
Alright boss. Agree to disagree. The analytics say go for it. It seems clear to me it’s a go. If you’re convinced kicking a FG means the Bills don’t score a TD or don’t tie and win in OT then enjoy your “told ya so” with Harbaugh.
Yea Boss, Buffalo is going to start milking the clock once they get a couple first downs with more than 3 minutes to play and start playing for a tying FG if they were down by three..... rather than trying to move the ball with urgency and try to take the lead with a TD. Mmmmmhhhhhmmmm, right Chief, you've got it all figured out. LMAO
Harbaugh and Jackson are functionally illiterate. It shows any time the chips are down.
ahh, "trusting the analytics," a new way for a coach to try to avoid responsibility for his decisions. It's kind of like "trusting the science," there are usually many interpretations of numbers.....
Ravens lose two games with big leads. Scored 10 points in second half against Miami (7 of those were on a long TD run by LJ). They scored 0 points in second half against Buffalo and 10 of their 20 was scored off of turnovers in Buffalo territory....
Ravens should have fired Roman in the off season and given LJ an opportunity to run a modern NFL offense. Not sure if they are running this offense because LJ is such a unique talent, or because they don't think he can run a modern NFL offense efficiently.
Ravens lose two games with big leads. Scored 10 points in second half against Miami (7 of those were on a long TD run by LJ). They scored 0 points in second half against Buffalo and 10 of their 20 was scored off of turnovers in Buffalo territory....
Ravens should have fired Roman in the off season and given LJ an opportunity to run a modern NFL offense. Not sure if they are running this offense because LJ is such a unique talent, or because they don't think he can run a modern NFL offense efficiently.
Ravens defense is the bigger culprit. Granted, Buffalo is a top 2 offense and Miami is 3-1, so these losses may look better in 6-8 weeks, but I think going for the TD was a complete lack of trust in your defense to stop Buffalo from scoring a TD afterwards.
And he was right. Buffalo got the ball to the 1 yard line with nearly 2 minutes on the clock. They then burnt the remaining clock and kicked to win.
Kicking the FG prior probably forces Buffalo to at least score the TD when it was there, and you get the ball back one more time.
Yes, your last paragraph is spot on. If Baltimore puts themselves in front, the onus to score is on Buffalo and they therefore lose control of the clock to some degree. They have no idea how many plays it will take them to score, so they aren't going to be diddling around trying to burn clock when they have all 3 of their TOs left, plus the 2-Minute warning and tons of clock (they'll try some plays, but they aren't going 4 downs if they failed on 3rd down with that much clock and all their TOs. If they are successful and move right down the field - they might burn some clock once they get near the red-zone, but then they risk having to merely go for the tying FG if they get too cute. As you say, I highly doubt they do that - they would remain aggressive looking to take the lead and score a TD on whatever opportunity they can. IOW, even if they're successful in scoring a TD, there likely would have been time on the clock for the Ravens (as it was, the Bills got the ball with 4.5 minutes and Baltimore used both it's TOs and we had the 2 minute warning.... IOW, the Bills burned almost 7 minutes of clock (when you add back the time-value of Baltimore's 2 TO + the 2 minute warning) because they knew all they needed was 3 points to win. This is why I say the analytics are flawed - the analytics are likely some form of factor-model, but it somehow didn't value the factor of having the lead and the implied loss of clock control if you are trailing and the onus is on you to score.).
it almost shows a lack of confidence in LJ...If the bills would have driven the field and taken the lead, LJ would have in all likelihood had the chance to mount a drive on his own (unless the Bills scored a last second TD, which would have required them not to kick a fg).
You have an automatic 3 points with Justin Tucker another stupid Harbaugh decision just as his brother but they make the millions
B…he has proven to be completely incapable of running an offense that will win in playoffs.
You very well may be right, but they should have probably hired a different OC and figured it out for sure. I have definitely been a skeptic, and the fact that the Ravens have not put up more than 20 points in four tries in the playoffs says something...
