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Johnathan Vilma says PSU was tipping plays

Obliviax

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Tipping plsys, I mean. I can't link it but Vilma says a tackle was tipping run or pass since the northwestern game. I wondered about this versus sparty. They seemed to always have the right play called when on defense.
 
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Transcipt of what Vilma said. Watching a few plays on video, I'd guess it's #77 (Wright) .........

“So for Penn State it all started when I was watching the Northwestern game on Saturday. And I was like “wow, Northwestern is doing a tremendous job against Saquon Barkley.” And then Penn State ended up winning, they blew the game open but I wanted to really see what happened in that game so I went and watched the film the next day and I started seeing some tells with the way the offense was lining up and what some players on the offense – particularly on the offensive line were doing.

So I said “okay this must have been something that Northwestern was seeing in previous games.” So I’m watching it and I’ll go very generic. You knew whether it was run or pass based on one of the offensive tackles. One of the offensive tackles was very very lazy in his stance.

So when it was a pass, he was very upright and you could tell that he needed to kick back and get back for a pass. When it was a run, he was leaning in, he was locked in to make sure he goes and gets his guy. It was particularly noticeable when he started getting tired. As all linemen do, they get tired. He would then start to really lean in on his runs, sit back on his passes. And I said “wow, I could call run-pass this whole game. Run-pass, run-pass.” I was right.

So then, I said “okay let me see now on the run plays, where does Saquon line up and how do they run their run plays when Saquon lines up to one side or to the other side?” It’s not a left or right thing. It’s when you have a 3-technique, I’m getting a little technical, but when you have a defensive tackle that’s a 3-technique, as opposed to a defensive tackle that’s a 1-technique. So a 1-technique is a defensive tackle that’s lined up usually shaded right over the center. And then you have the defensive tackle that’s over the guard. To make it easier for people to understand.

So now, when he was on the side of the defensive tackle that’s lined up over the guard, more times than not he was getting the ball and it was hitting in a certain area – the A-gap or cutting back. Kind of designed that way.

When he was on the other side, it was truly a zone read and it was a mix of him getting the ball or they would run some of their counter plays and things of that nature. So I’m watching and saying “wow, okay, so anybody that can communicate this to their linebackers or their secondary because the D-linemen won’t see it. If you can communicate this to your D-line and secondary and they’re aware enough in the games to actually key in on this, they could have a field day. A field day.

And sure enough, I remember watching the Ohio State game’s second half. And they lit up that Penn State offense. And I would like to think that it’s that they knew they had the tell.”

http://thespun.com/big-ten/penn-sta...-has-been-giving-away-its-play-calls-all-year
 
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Tipping plsys, I mean. I can't link it but Vilma says a tackle was typing run our pass since the northwestern game. I wondered about this versus sparty. They seemed to always have the right play called when on defense.

What? Former or current tackle? How/where? Twitter?
 
I dunno but Franklin claims frequently that they "self-scout" and Limegrover is a very experienced O-line coach. I'd think our coaching staff would've noticed this before some talking head from TV land.
 
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I get the DT thing. I always wondered if there were times the play should have been 'flipped'
 
Thought we ran RPOs
Exactly... the people here who defend the o line say that the lack of run game is because the o line has to pass block every play because they don’t know whether it is run or pass. Also going back to the summer, a couple of guys here were telling me that not everything is RPO, that they call some real runs and pass plays without options. These both can’t be true...
 
This would be either 71, 52, or 77 for Penn State, who he is talking about. I think 52 is disqualified because he did not play a lot against Ohio State, or at all against Michigan State. 71 only played in the second half against Northwestern. So, I suppose that settles that, if indeed what Vilma is saying is true, which I don't know because I don't know that much about what he is saying.
 
Also suspected it! OL play has a legacy of such, especially at the HS level. Your coach ever tell you # X is leaning on his knuckles when they are going to run but if it's a pass he is just touching the grass with his finger tips. I lived in a house with five football players. I digress! Got into every frat party I wanted to. They were a free pass. Had one issue though. One particularly would get drunk and want me to start a fight so he could fight and bail me out. His rational was Joe would be proud of him for defending a vet and the law would not touch me because I was wounded. Anyway, back to living with those guys. They claimed Sandusky was a genius. Said he'd see things at multiple positions. Sometimes it was like a puzzle and hurt them. e.g. if 77 does this and 88 is here, etc. Then at the half he'd sense that they were paying to much attention to that stuff and tell them to forget about it and just play. None the less though, said he always had them pegged!
 
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This would be either 71, 52, or 77 for Penn State, who he is talking about. I think 52 is disqualified because he did not play a lot against Ohio State, or at all against Michigan State. 71 only played in the second half against Northwestern. So, I suppose that settles that, if indeed what Vilma is saying is true, which I don't know because I don't know that much about what he is saying.
I believe Vilma indicated it was #77, Chaz Wright several times. Remember, he is playing injured, so he could be "cheating" some in his stances to compensate for the injury. Very adept scouting by Vilma. Hopefully OL coach read this info and has reviwed films to locate the problem and make technique corrections.
 
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Thanks for sharing a very interesting article. I fully expect that we’ll see some “changes” because if this :)

Vilma did PSU a great benefit by pointing this out.


Maybe Sandy can find room for another assistant? Or perhaps Vilma can replace Limegrover. Or, more likely, this too will be ignored.
 
I saw the same thing when we stomped ND with Sacca at Qb. We were standing up against the west pressbox in front of ND broadcast team. I told my buddies that ND lineman was tipping run/pass. 10 minutes later we hear Paul Hornung repeating it on the air.
 
But Michigan didn't figure this out. And OSU and MSU didn't use it to a clear advantage.

Not saying Vilma is wrong but saying he may be more astute than coaches paid to figure it out.


Maybe Vilma was tipping a few more than cows before he wrote the article, but I doubt it. It is readily observable when you isolate on the OL play on replays. Just because the type of block is Tipped doesn't mean the defense will be successful stopping the play especially with this offense.
 
Vima's angle...OSU needs PSU to win out and win out handily in order for the 39-38 win look like a "good win" for OSU. :p
 
This can't possibly be happening. If it was, the keyboard coaches on this forum would have been calling it out the second it started. There's no way a career football player and all-pro knows more about the intricacies of football than the keyboard coaches that played varsity football 10 years ago. Blasphemer!
 
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This can't possibly be happening. If it was, the keyboard coaches on this forum would have been calling it out the second it started. There's no way a career football player and all-pro knows more about the intricacies of football than the keyboard coaches that played varsity football 10 years ago. Blasphemer!

We did. It is Gonzo, he has been doing it since the beginning of the season.

When he has to pull, usually on run plays, his splits tend to be about a half yard deeper than they should be.

EDIT: Apparently a tackle has a tell as well. My apologies.
 
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Transcipt of what Vilma said. Watching a few plays on video, I'd guess it's #77 (Wright) .........

“So for Penn State it all started when I was watching the Northwestern game on Saturday. And I was like “wow, Northwestern is doing a tremendous job against Saquon Barkley.” And then Penn State ended up winning, they blew the game open but I wanted to really see what happened in that game so I went and watched the film the next day and I started seeing some tells with the way the offense was lining up and what some players on the offense – particularly on the offensive line were doing.

So I said “okay this must have been something that Northwestern was seeing in previous games.” So I’m watching it and I’ll go very generic. You knew whether it was run or pass based on one of the offensive tackles. One of the offensive tackles was very very lazy in his stance.

So when it was a pass, he was very upright and you could tell that he needed to kick back and get back for a pass. When it was a run, he was leaning in, he was locked in to make sure he goes and gets his guy. It was particularly noticeable when he started getting tired. As all linemen do, they get tired. He would then start to really lean in on his runs, sit back on his passes. And I said “wow, I could call run-pass this whole game. Run-pass, run-pass.” I was right.

So then, I said “okay let me see now on the run plays, where does Saquon line up and how do they run their run plays when Saquon lines up to one side or to the other side?” It’s not a left or right thing. It’s when you have a 3-technique, I’m getting a little technical, but when you have a defensive tackle that’s a 3-technique, as opposed to a defensive tackle that’s a 1-technique. So a 1-technique is a defensive tackle that’s lined up usually shaded right over the center. And then you have the defensive tackle that’s over the guard. To make it easier for people to understand.

So now, when he was on the side of the defensive tackle that’s lined up over the guard, more times than not he was getting the ball and it was hitting in a certain area – the A-gap or cutting back. Kind of designed that way.

When he was on the other side, it was truly a zone read and it was a mix of him getting the ball or they would run some of their counter plays and things of that nature. So I’m watching and saying “wow, okay, so anybody that can communicate this to their linebackers or their secondary because the D-linemen won’t see it. If you can communicate this to your D-line and secondary and they’re aware enough in the games to actually key in on this, they could have a field day. A field day.

And sure enough, I remember watching the Ohio State game’s second half. And they lit up that Penn State offense. And I would like to think that it’s that they knew they had the tell.”

http://thespun.com/big-ten/penn-sta...-has-been-giving-away-its-play-calls-all-year
so if Vilma sees it, why don't our coaches see and correct it. Or is Wright uncorrectable?
 
I believe Vilma indicated it was #77, Chaz Wright several times. Remember, he is playing injured, so he could be "cheating" some in his stances to compensate for the injury. Very adept scouting by Vilma. Hopefully OL coach read this info and has reviwed films to locate the problem and make technique corrections.

when did Wright start to play injured? he was out early in the season, but then came back after a few weeks. not aware he was playing injured. #71 filled in for him for several games. then the move of #71 for #52 due to injury at tOSU brought Wright back to RT.

the double move probably says all we need to know and that is we do not have the talent depth on the team to just make one substitution. a single injury causes 2 moves. even though Mahon has played LT before, we must have no talent at G to backup Mahon.
 
If there were any thoughts about re-shuffling the O-line, today would be the day to do it. Weakest opponent left, and 3 games to get a good feel for a different OL mix. Mahon at RT and Menet in at Guard?
 
Tipping plays by the distance of a line split, the depth of alignment off the ball, or the amount of weight a lineman puts on his down hand.....has always been something coaches look for. However, I ask again.....if most of our plays are RPO's how does the lineman know when the play will be a run and or a pass?
 
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