Just The Facts About Joe Paterno

bplionfan

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Jul 1, 2014
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Fact 1
Joe Paterno never covered up for Jerry Sandusky.
From the State Prosecutors Office. Chief Deputy Attorney General Frank Fina, the man who led the Sandusky investigation, told 60 Minutes Sports Armen Keteyian he has examined all evidence and found no evidence that Joe Paterno participated in a cover up of any sort.
Joe Paterno did put Mike McQueary in DIRECT touch with both AD Tim Curley, Joe Paterno’s direct supervisor, and Gary Schultz who had oversight of University Police Department. PSU Police Force is the real Police. The Penn State police force comprises 46 armed officers. According to state law, these have both the power and the duty "to prevent crime, investigate criminal acts … and carry the offender before the proper alderman, justice of the peace, magistrate or bail commissioner."

Fact 2
Joe Paterno never interfered with the justice system
. Carmine W. Prestia Jr. I've lived and worked in State College for the past 41 years: 25 with the State College Police Department, one year of retirement, and 15 years as a magisterial district judge. Never once in my time as a police officer or judge has anyone in the football program asked me to cover up anything, withdraw a charge, or do something else unethical. I certainly saw a number of players get in trouble. Offenses ranged from simple summary offenses to felonies of the first degree.
http://www.statecollege.com/news/co...gn-paterno-tampered-in-justice-system,988524/

Fact 3
When Mike called home MOMENTS after the 2001 incident Mike McQueary told his father TWICE he saw nothing more than Jerry Sandusky in a shower with a boy.
Regardless of what Mike now "claims" hours, weeks, months, years later Mike witnessed no sexual act. After that phone call, everything he told/testified to others about what he saw that was not that he SAW NOTHING SEXUAL was manufactured in his head.
John McQueary in his testimony began by recounting the phone call he received from his son moments after witnessing Sandusky and a child in the Lasch building shower room in 2001. His wife answered the phone and immediately handed him the phone, saying “It’s Mike. There’s something wrong.”
I just saw something, I saw Coach Sandusky in the shower with a young boy,” John recalled his son saying.
“I asked him if he had seen anal sex and I got more descriptive. ‘Did you see anything you could verify’ — penetration or maybe I used the word sodomy,” he said. According to his father, Mike McQueary responded, “No, I didn’t actually see that” John McQueary says he asked again, “So you didn’t witness penetration or ANYTHING ELSE you can verify?” His son AGAIN said NO.

Fact 4
The Grand Jury report incorrectly stated that Mike McQueary had witnessed a rape. See also fact #3.
Joe Paterno was never told a report of a child was being raped. Mike McQueary has testified that he never witnessed Jerry Sandusky raping a boy in the shower, and didn’t tell anyone that he did. Because of the lack of evidence, Jerry was not convicted of a rape with regard to this 2001 incident. Also no victim testified in this incident. There has been no one who has come forward that has been found to be truthful that they were sexually assaulted in the shower that night in 2001. There has been a person who has come forward to say that he was there with Jerry that night and was not sexually assaulted. There were THREE not guilty verdicts in the Sandusky case and one of them was Count 7 --the incendiary allegation of a rape (IDSI) -- made by Mike McQueary regarding the 2001 incident.

Fact 5
Joe Paterno was praised by the Attorney General office for his correct handling of the Jerry Sandusky incident in 2001.
Penn State head football coach Joe Paterno did the right thing and reported an eye-witness report of child sex abuse by Jerry Sandusky in the football locker room in 2001, according to the indictment released this morning by the state Attorney General.

Fact 6
Joe Paterno did not ask Mike McQueary to stay quiet on the 2001 incident.
Mike said no one ever gave him instructions to not talk about it. Mike said Coach Paterno was great about the whole thing.

Fact 7
The Office for the Attorney General did not feel Joe Paterno’s reporting of Jerry Sandusky were cause to be fired.
Paterno is accused of no wrongdoing, and in fact authorities have said he fulfilled his legal obligations by reporting to his superiors. Based on the Feb. 2, 2012 subpoena directed at PSU by the US DOJ, Paterno was not a target or even mentioned. Nor did any of the information requested pertain to Paterno.

Fact 8
Child Welfare agencies approved Jerry Sandusky to adopt 6 children.
These were agencies that were educated and trained to spot people who were harmful to children. Jerry Sandusky also fostered dozens more children approved by these agencies. The agencies continued to place the children in Jerry Sandusky’s care over the years, and continued to allow Jerry Sandusky access to children at the 2nd Mile charity for at-risk youths.

Fact 9
The 2nd Mile Charity and youth agencies provided Jerry Sandusky access to trouble youths.
The 2nd Mile gave one on one access to mentors and youth through The Friend and Friend Fitness programs, which pair up adults with children in the hope of fostering positive role model-mentor relationships. The Friend Fitness Program is a mentorship program involving college and elementary students who join together and participate in healthy, educational activities. The Friend Fitness program was available only in Centre County for adolescents.

Fact 10
Joe Paterno didn’t agree with giving 2nd Mile charity access to PSU facilities for 2nd Mile use in Jerry Sandusky retirement package due to insurance liability issues.
Joe was overruled. In the Jerry Sandusky Penn State Retirement Package in 1998- Sandusky asked for access to training and workout facilities. Paterno put a check mark next to that request to deny that request. In a sidebar, Paterno asked if this was for Sandusky's personal use, or for Second Mile kids, and indicated that due to liability problems, facility access should not be extended to Second Mile kids. Paterno was overruled and Jerry Sandusky was granted access to bring Second Mile kids to workout facilities for the 2nd Mile Friends Fitness program.

Fact 11
Jerry Sandusky was retired from Penn State in 1999. He did not coach at Penn State after 1999 and wasn't coaching during the 2001 incident.
For his retirement package he received Emeritus Status. The state was offering 30-year employees a handsome buyout, and Paterno believed Sandusky should take it. Paterno was frustrated that Sandusky spent so much time working on his youth foundation, The Second Mile, that he was not available to help in recruiting and other coaching duties. “He came to see me and we talked a little about his career,” Paterno said. “I said, you know, Jerry, you want to be head coach, you can’t do as much as you’re doing with the other operation. I said this job takes so much detail, and for you to think you can go off and get involved in fundraising and a lot of things like that.. . . I said you can’t do both, that’s basically what I told him.” Even Louis Freeh, could not find a connection to Jerry retiring (see the Freeh report beginning at page 55.)

Fact 12
Due to Jerry Sandusky Emeritus Status, Joe Paterno and Penn State could not remove Jerry Sandusky’s access to Penn State Facilities because he had not been convicted of a crime
. Emeritus Status (entitles bearer to a lifetime office and lifetime access to campus) The Freeh report (page 81) states that University counsel (Cynthia Baldwin) said that the University could not legally revoke Sandusky's access to the athletic facilities because of his Emeritus status, and because he had not been convicted of a crime. Page 106 reiterates this. Page 107 adds that Baldwin said "his access could not be eliminated without the University being sued."

Fact 13
In the Jerry Sandusky trial, no victims testified against Jerry Sandusky that they were abused on Penn State’s campus in 2001.
Also zero victims testified in the trial that they were abused on PSU campus after 2001. MM also testified in the 12/16/11 prelim that after 2001 he never once saw JS around the program with a kid again.

Fact 14
Joe Paterno had no knowledge of 1998 Jerry Sandusky incident being a crime
. What was eventually known is that Jerry Sandusky was exonerated. The 1998 incident was reported to police and thoroughly investigated by all agencies. The police went as far to set up a sting operation by recording conversations Sandusky had with the boy’s mother. The incident was investigated to the fullest extent and the District Attorney concluded no crimes were committed. DPW didn't even think there was enough cause to "indicate" Jerry Sandusky (a much lower standard is needed for this vs. bringing criminal charges btw) nor did they remove his 1 on 1 access to kids after the 1998 claims.In accordance with 055 Pa. Code § 3490.91. regarding the confidentiality of child abuse reports, the information regarding the nature of the 1998 child abuse investigation of Jerry Sandusky was not provided to Timothy Curley, Dr. Graham Spanier, or Joe Paterno. The Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General, Department of Public Welfare, County Youth Services, and the 2nd Mile which is a state licensed children's charity didn't limit Jerry Sandusky access to children after this incident.

Fact 15
There are no facts that point to Paterno knowing anything in 1970’s
. Joe Paterno had been questioned in his Grand jury testimony if he had any prior to 2001 knowledge of Jerry Sandusky inappropriate sexual conduct.
Q: Other than the incident that Mike McQueary reported to you, do you know in any way, through rumor, direct knowledge or any other fashion, of any other inappropriate sexual conduct by Jerry Sandusky with young boys?
Mr. Paterno: I do not know of anything else that Jerry would be involved in of that nature, no. I do not know of it.

Even the 1976 accuser’s own lawyer Michael Boni said “The headlines of these stories is Paterno knew of Sandusky’s molestation in the ’70s, ’76 or ’77. I’m unaware of direct, irrefutable evidence that that’s the case. Believe me, I’m the last person to defend the guy, but I am the first person to believe in our justice system. And I think you need more than anecdotal evidence or speculative evidence.”

There are 2 claims of abuse in the 1970’s but neither falls into the way Jerry Sandusky was to have victimized the boys
Sandusky victimizing acts according to testimony from his reported victims:
1. Never victimized a female.
2. Never victimized a minor male in the presence of a minor female.
3. Never overtly victimized a minor male in the presence of other minor males.
4. Never overtly victimized a minor male in the (known) presence of other adults.
5. Never victimized a stranger.
6. Never used violence to force himself on a minor male.
7. Never provided victims with drugs or alcohol in the commission of his crimes.
Yet the 70’s claims and previously publicized claims include one or more of these as allegations by claimants who received settlements from Penn State. According to Sandusky's criminal profile, he was an acquaintance offender who slowly groomed his victims to comply with various levels of sexual abuse. Not all victims would comply to the same levels, therefore there is varying testimony about the actual crimes. However, what was consistent among Sandusky's victims was the manner in which he operated or his modus operandi. He met his victims through The Second Mile, took about one year to assess them and choose his targets, then began the grooming and apparently victimizing of them.

Fact 16
PSU Board of Trustees did not check the veracity of civil claims of abuse
. They paid claims in the amount of $92 million. Each settlement that PSU paid contained a clause that prevented the claimant to pursue additional monetary compensation from The Second Mile and/or former board members of The Second Mile.

Fact 17
Joe and Sue Paterno allowed their own kids to play with Jerry Sandusky.
"Do you think we'd let our kids play with someone who might be a pedophile?" she asked. "Obviously we were all totally unaware."

Fact 18
Joe Paterno handled the McQueary info how PA sexual abuse detective says it should be handled
. http://chirb.it/t5dK4p 18 year PA sexual abuse detective on what was required and expected of Joe Paterno and the protocol he used. He says Joe Paterno should not have done more.

Fact 19
Joe Paterno did not say he should have done more.
What he did say was qualified: “With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more” Hindsight: wisdom or knowledge gained only after something (usually bad) has happened as was the case in 2011 after Joe Paterno found out the seriousness of the charges against Jerry Sandusky.

Fact 20
Joe Paterno never committed a major recruiting violation
. For someone who people claim he covered up for Jerry Sandusky in order to win football games one would think that sort of person would then treat rules like recruiting rules with little care. Yet as of 2016, there are only four athletic programs from major conferences on the list of non-cheating schools. They are Penn State, Boston College, Northwestern, and Stanford.

Fact 21
Joe Paterno's FBI file included zero mentions of Jerry Sandusky or any mention of Joe Paterno being aware of Jerry Sandusky being a child sexual predator.
The file’s accessible 868 pages don’t mention Jerry Sandusky or the former Penn State assistant coach’s child sexual abuse scandal.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/29/joe-paterno-fbi-file-makes-no-mention-jerry-sandus/

Fact 22
Louis Freeh was unwilling to testify to the conclusions of the Freeh Report in court.
Freeh asked Judge Gary S. Glazer on May 27 to quash a subpoena from Pennsylvania Manufacturers' Association Insurance Co. seeking his deposition testimony on the investigation, saying that Penn State hasn’t waived the attorney-client privilege protecting communications between the university and the investigators, with the exception of what was disclosed in the public report. Furthermore, Freeh’s testimony would be limited to the contents of the report, thus constituting inadmissible hearsay, according to the motion.

Fact 23
Joe Paterno and Jerry Sandusky were not friends off the field.
Despite the media all using the same 1 image of Joe Paterno and Jerry Sandusky standing together, a biography of Penn State football coach Joe Paterno lays out details about his relationship with Jerry Sandusky, including the fact that the two hardly got along - if ever.
In his biography, Paterno, former Sports Illustrated columnist Joe Posnanski writes that the once-iconic coach became irritated with his defensive coordinator when he realized that Sandusky's first priority did not appear to be Penn State football. Paterno, was apparently bothered that Sandusky was focused more on his charity, the Second Mile, than team meetings and recruiting new players.

Jim Clemente is a retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent/Profiler and former Prosecutor for the New York City Law Department During his 22-year career with the FBI, He is an internationally recognized expert in the fields of Child Sexual Victimization, Sexual Homicide, and Child Abduction. Today he teaches and gives presentations around the world. He also consults on Criminal and Civil cases. This Sandusky case is a textbook example of how people in the general public misinterpret the behavior of child sex offenders. And, Jerry Sandusky is a textbook example of a preferential child sex offender and a “nice-guy” acquaintance offender. He effectively groomed most of the people who came in contact with him, including child care experts, psychologists, professionals, celebrities, athletes, coaches, friends and family. The sad truth is people do not recognize the “grooming” behavior of “nice-guy” acquaintance offenders, especially when they know or are close to that person. Unfortunately for the ordinary layman, these type of grooming techniques, as employed by Sandusky, create a huge obstacle to identifying actual offenders. In order to identify and stop child molesters, we must understand how grooming works and the complicated, counter-intuitive dynamics of child sexual victimization.

Fact 24
Media fell for false narrative in Atlanta Olympic bomber case when Louis Freeh pinned the crime falsely on Richard Jewell.
In its rush to show the world how quickly it could get is man, the FBI trampled on my rights as a citizen. In its rush for the headline that the hero was the bomber, the media cared nothing for my feelings as a human being. In their mad rush to fulfill their own personal agendas, the FBI and the media almost destroyed me and my mother. You, the media, were looking too. Your cameras trained on my mother and me, your cameras and the FBI followed my every move. I felt like a hunted animal, followed constantly, waiting to be killed. The media said I fit the profile of a lone bomber. That was a lie. The media said I was a former law enforcement officer, a frustrated police wannabe. That was a lie. I was then and am now a law enforcement officer. The fact that I was between jobs and took a position as a security guard at the Olympics did not change that fact. The media said I was an overzealous officer. That was a lie. Three days into the process, the press went into a kind of media frenzy, and at that particular point, the press was not doing Mr. Jewell, the facts, the case, anybody any great service.
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/journalism/j6075/edit/readings/jewell.html
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/sports-july-dec96-jewell_10-28/

Fact 25
Media fell for false narrative in Duke Lacrosse case that the Duke Lacrosse was covering up for rape.
“The media quickly latched onto a narrative too seductive to check: rich, wild, white jocks had brutalized a working class, black mother of two,” reads the American Journalism Review’s analysis.

Fact 26
Media fell for false narrative in Virginia Fraternity rape case.
Media Bias: Nearly 40 years ago, Bob Dylan, singing about what he felt was a miscarriage of justice, said, "The newspapers, they all went along for the ride." Today the ride goes on, with broadcasters having jumped aboard. This time, the ride was on the back of a University of Virginia fraternity, smeared by a Rolling Stone article accusing members of the group of the gang rape of a female freshman named "Jackie." "The major broadcast networks," reports the Media Research Center, a media watchdog group, "rushed to the story and devoted multiple segments to both the article and reaction on the school's campus." On Nov. 23 and 24, the Big Three networks devoted "11 minutes and 14 seconds" of coverage to the gang rape story. They, of course, were happy to, because it supported the narrative that a brutal "rape culture" exists on American campuses. The narrative has been discredited, but the media played a prominent role in its development and will not easily let it go.
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/rolling-stone-rape-story-example-of-media-bias/

Mantra
“Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: The requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- "No, YOU move.”

There is now info coming out that the date used was wrong and McQueary didn't go to Paterno the day after like he testified. Unti;l it is verified, I can't list it as a fact just yet.
http://www.framingpaterno.com/new-p...ruary-9th-2001-was-real-date-mcqueary-episode
 
Last edited:

LundyPSU

Well-Known Member
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Jan 5, 2002
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Fact
Joe Paterno did not ask Mike McQueary to stay quiet on the 2001 incident.
Joe followed up with Mike and asked if Mike felt it was being handled okay. Mike indicated he had no issues with the way his report was handles.

Fact
In the Jerry Sandusky trial, no victims testified against Jerry Sandusky that they were abused on Penn State’s campus in 2001.
Also zero victims testified in the trial that they were abused on PSU campus before or after 2001.

Not true as written. If we are going to argue with facts, lets make sure they are accurate.
 
A

anon_xdc8rmuek44eq

Guest
Was looking for an article on Matt Ruhle and found one with his quotes about Paterno. But, what really caught my eye was the 'correction' printed at the bottom of the article. It said:

CORRECTION: This article previously misstated that reports surfaced saying Joe Paterno witnessed Jerry Sandusky's child sex abuse acts. The reports only stated he was told of the acts. The article has been updated.

Full article here: http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/index.ssf/2016/06/temple_coach_matt_rhule_on_joe.html

Knowing it's Penn Live, I'm assuming the original article with the misstatement was done on purpose.
 

kevina001

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2016
521
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Fact
Joe Paterno did not ask Mike McQueary to stay quiet on the 2001 incident.
Joe followed up with Mike and asked if Mike felt it was being handled okay. Mike indicated he had no issues with the way his report was handles.

To further back that up, McQueary has great incentive to tell the story that Joe and Penn St told him to keep quiet. It sure would bolster his whistleblower lawsuit. In spite of all that, he has communicated the exact opposite, in that he was NEVER told to keep the matter quiet.
 

pandaczar12

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Jun 1, 2010
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Excellent summary!

Consider adding that his being over ruled on JS retirement proves he wasn't "the most powerful man in the state". There are also numerous other instances of Joe being over ruled, I would try to add some.

Consider adding something about the timeline of victims, to show how the majority of the abuse took place before Joe was involved in 2001.

Consider adding something on the lack of motivation to cover up for JS when he was a lowly linebackers coach in the 70s, and Joe never really liked JS. Why would he cover for a guy in the 70s, then report in 2001? Why wouldn't he have left town the first chance he had for Michigan or New England to get away from this mess?

Considering beefing up on some of Freeh's other failures, and the fact that he called his own report just an "opinion".
 

PSU2UNC

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Feb 9, 2016
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Lundy, what is inaccurate? I want to be accurate. Please inform me. Thanks.

I think he is parsing words here "Joe followed up with Mike and asked if Mike felt it was being handled okay. Mike indicated he had no issues with the way his report was handles."

Mike wasn't very clear in testimony on this point.

"McQueary said he couldn’t remember word for word what Paterno said, but he recalled it was along the lines of “ ‘Hey, are you OK?’ ” or about Sandusky, “ ‘God, he was a sick guy.’ ”

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/news/loc...y-sandusky/article42824091.html#storylink=cpy

To be fair, if Mike was "not OK" he could have certainly spoken up at that point. He did not.

For the second part...I'm not sure what he's objecting to. In terms of the 10 victims that were involved in the criminal prosecution, the only two that occurred on PSU property were the 2001 incident (no victim testified) and the "janitor incident" (no victim identified)
 

Nittany Ned2

Well-Known Member
Dec 16, 2005
7,112
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Fact
Joe Paterno never covered up for Jerry Sandusky.
From the State Prosecutors Office. Chief Deputy Attorney General Frank Fina, the man who led the Sandusky investigation, told 60 Minutes Sports Armen Keteyian he found no evidence that Joe Paterno participated in a cover up of any sort.

Joe Paterno put Mike McQueary in DIRECT touch with AD Tim Curley , Joe Paterno’s direct supervisor and Gary Schultz who had oversight of University Police Department. PSU Police Force is the real Police. The Penn State police force comprises 46 armed officers. According to state law, these have both the power and the duty "to prevent crime, investigate criminal acts … and carry the offender before the proper alderman, justice of the peace, magistrate or bail commissioner."

Fact
Joe Paterno never interfered with the justice system
. Carmine W. Prestia Jr. I've lived and worked in State College for the past 41 years: 25 with the State College Police Department, one year of retirement, and 15 years as a magisterial district judge. Never once in my time as a police officer or judge has anyone in the football program asked me to cover up anything, withdraw a charge, or do something else unethical. I certainly saw a number of players get in trouble. Offenses ranged from simple summary offenses to felonies of the first degree.
http://www.statecollege.com/news/co...gn-paterno-tampered-in-justice-system,988524/

Fact
The Grand Jury report incorrectly stated that Mike McQueary had witnessed a rape.
Joe Paterno was never told a report of a child was being raped. Mike McQueary has testified that he never witnessed Jerry Sandusky raping a boy in the shower, and didn’t tell anyone that he did. Because of the lack of evidence, Jerry was not convicted of a rape with regard to this 2001 incident. Also no victim testified in this incident. There were THREE not guilty verdicts in the Sandusky case and one of them was Count 7 --the incendiary allegation of a rape (IDSI) -- made by Mike McQueary regarding the 2001 incident.

Fact
Joe Paterno was praised by the Attorney General office for his correct handling of the Jerry Sandusky incident in 2001.
Based on the Feb. 2, 2012 subpoena directed at PSU by the US DOJ, Paterno was not a target or even mentioned. Nor did any of the information requested pertain to Paterno.

Fact
Joe Paterno did not ask Mike McQueary to stay quiet on the 2001 incident.
Joe followed up with Mike and asked if Mike felt it was being handled okay. Mike indicated he had no issues with the way his report was handles.

Fact
The Office for the Attorney General did not feel Joe Paterno’s reporting of Jerry Sandusky were cause to be fired.
Paterno is accused of no wrongdoing, and in fact authorities have said he fulfilled his legal obligations by reporting to his superiors.

Fact
Child Welfare agencies approved Jerry Sandusky to adopt 5 children.
These were agencies that were educated and trained to spot people who were harmful to children. Jerry Sandusky also fostered several more children approved by these agencies. The agencies continued to place the children in Jerry Sandusky’s care over the years, and continued to allow Jerry Sandusky access to children at the 2nd Mile charity for at-risk youths.

Fact
The 2nd Mile Charity and youth agencies provided Jerry Sandusky access to trouble youths.
The 2nd Mile gave one on one access to mentors and youth through The Friend and Friend Fitness programs, which pair up adults with children in the hope of fostering positive role model-mentor relationships. The Friend Fitness Program is a mentorship program involving college and elementary students who join together and participate in healthy, educational activities. The Friend Fitness program was available only in Centre County for adolescents.

Fact
Joe Paterno didn’t agree with giving access to PSU facilities for 2nd Mile use in Jerry Sandusky retirement package due to insurance liability issues.
Joe was overruled. In the Jerry Sandusky Penn State Retirement Package in 1998- Sandusky asked for access to training and workout facilities. Paterno put a check mark next to that request to deny that request. In a sidebar, Paterno asked if this was for Sandusky's personal use, or for Second Mile kids, and indicated that due to liability problems, facility access should not be extended to Second Mile kids. Paterno was overruled and Jerry Sandusky was granted access to bring Second Mile kids to workout facilities for the 2nd Mile Friends Fitness program.

Fact
Jerry Sandusky was retired from Penn State in 1999. He did not coach at Penn State after 1999 and wasn't coaching during the 2001 incident.
For his retirement package he received Emeritus Status

Fact
Due to Jerry Sandusky Emeritus Status, Joe Paterno and Penn State could not remove Jerry Sandusky’s access to Penn State Facilities because he had not been convicted of a crime
. Emeritus Status (entitles bearer to a lifetime office and lifetime access to campus) The Freeh report (page 81) states that University counsel (Cynthia Baldwin) said that the University could not legally revoke Sandusky's access to the athletic facilities because of his Emeritus status, and because he had not been convicted of a crime. Page 106 reiterates this. Page 107 adds that Baldwin said "his access could not be eliminated without the University being sued."

Fact
In the Jerry Sandusky trial, no victims testified against Jerry Sandusky that they were abused on Penn State’s campus in 2001.
Also zero victims testified in the trial that they were abused on PSU campus before or after 2001.

Fact
Joe Paterno had no knowledge of 1998 Jerry Sandusky incident being a crime
. What was eventually known is that Jerry Sandusky was exonerated. The 1998 incident was reported to police and thoroughly investigated by all agencies. The police went as far to set up a sting operation by recording conversations Sandusky had with the boy’s mother. The incident was investigated to the fullest extent and the District Attorney concluded no crimes were committed. DPW didn't even think there was enough cause to "indicate" Jerry Sandusky (a much lower standard is needed for this vs. bringing criminal charges btw) nor did they remove his 1 on 1 access to kids after the 1998 claims.In accordance with 055 Pa. Code § 3490.91. regarding the confidentiality of child abuse reports, the information regarding the nature of the 1998 child abuse investigation of Jerry Sandusky was not provided to Timothy Curley, Dr. Graham Spanier, or Joe Paterno.

Fact
There are no facts that point to Paterno knowing anything in 1970’s
. Joe Paterno had been questioned in his Grand jury testimony if he had any prior to 2001 knowledge of Jerry Sandusky inappropriate sexual conduct.
Q: Other than the incident that Mike McQueary reported to you, do you know in any way, through rumor, direct knowledge or any other fashion, of any other inappropriate sexual conduct by Jerry Sandusky with young boys?
Mr. Paterno: I do not know of anything else that Jerry would be involved in of that nature, no. I do not know of it.

Even the 1976 accuser’s own lawyer Michael Boni said “The headlines of these stories is Paterno knew of Sandusky’s molestation in the ’70s, ’76 or ’77. I’m unaware of direct, irrefutable evidence that that’s the case. Believe me, I’m the last person to defend the guy, but I am the first person to believe in our justice system. And I think you need more than anecdotal evidence or speculative evidence.”

There are 2 claims of abuse in the 1970’s but neither falls into the way Jerry Sandusky was to have victimized the boys
Sandusky victimizing acts according to testimony from his reported victims:
1. Never victimized a female.
2. Never victimized a minor male in the presence of a minor female.
3. Never overtly victimized a minor male in the presence of other minor males.
4. Never overtly victimized a minor male in the (known) presence of other adults.
5. Never victimized a stranger.
6. Never used violence to force himself on a minor male.
7. Never provided victims with drugs or alcohol in the commission of his crimes.
Yet the 70’s claims and previously publicized claims include one or more of these as allegations by claimants who received settlements from Penn State. According to Sandusky's criminal profile, he was an acquaintance offender who slowly groomed his victims to comply with various levels of sexual abuse. Not all victims would comply to the same levels, therefore there is varying testimony about the actual crimes. However, what was consistent among Sandusky's victims was the manner in which he operated or his modus operandi. He met his victims through The Second Mile, took about one year to assess them and choose his targets, then began the grooming and victimizing of them.

Fact
Joe Paterno did not say he should have done more.
What he did say was qualified: “With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more” Hindsight: wisdom or knowledge gained only after something (usually bad) has happened as was the case in 2011 after Joe Paterno found out the seriousness of the charges against Jerry Sandusky.

Fact
Joe Paterno never committed a major recruiting violation
. For someone who people claim he covered up for Jerry Sandusky in order to win football games one would think that sort of person would then treat rules like recruiting rules with little care. Yet as of 2016, there are only four athletic programs from major conferences on the list of non-cheating schools. They are Penn State, Boston College, Northwestern, and Stanford.

Fact
Joe Paterno's FBI file included zero mentions of Jerry Sandusky or any mention of Joe Paterno being aware of Jerry Sandusky being a child sexual predator.
The file’s accessible 868 pages don’t mention Jerry Sandusky or the former Penn State assistant coach’s child sexual abuse scandal.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/29/joe-paterno-fbi-file-makes-no-mention-jerry-sandus/

Fact
Media fell for false narrative in Atlanta Olympic bomber case when Louis Freeh pinned the crime falsely on Richard Jewell.
In its rush to show the world how quickly it could get is man, the FBI trampled on my rights as a citizen. In its rush for the headline that the hero was the bomber, the media cared nothing for my feelings as a human being. In their mad rush to fulfill their own personal agendas, the FBI and the media almost destroyed me and my mother. You, the media, were looking too. Your cameras trained on my mother and me, your cameras and the FBI followed my every move. I felt like a hunted animal, followed constantly, waiting to be killed. The media said I fit the profile of a lone bomber. That was a lie. The media said I was a former law enforcement officer, a frustrated police wannabe. That was a lie. I was then and am now a law enforcement officer. The fact that I was between jobs and took a position as a security guard at the Olympics did not change that fact. The media said I was an overzealous officer. That was a lie. Three days into the process, the press went into a kind of media frenzy, and at that particular point, the press was not doing Mr. Jewell, the facts, the case, anybody any great service.
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/journalism/j6075/edit/readings/jewell.html
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/sports-july-dec96-jewell_10-28/

Fact
Media fell for false narrative in Duke Lacrosse case that the Duke Lacrosse was covering up for rape.
“The media quickly latched onto a narrative too seductive to check: rich, wild, white jocks had brutalized a working class, black mother of two,” reads the American Journalism Review’s analysis.

Fact
Media fell for false narrative in Virginia Fraternity rape case.
Media Bias: Nearly 40 years ago, Bob Dylan, singing about what he felt was a miscarriage of justice, said, "The newspapers, they all went along for the ride." Today the ride goes on, with broadcasters having jumped aboard. This time, the ride was on the back of a University of Virginia fraternity, smeared by a Rolling Stone article accusing members of the group of the gang rape of a female freshman named "Jackie." "The major broadcast networks," reports the Media Research Center, a media watchdog group, "rushed to the story and devoted multiple segments to both the article and reaction on the school's campus." On Nov. 23 and 24, the Big Three networks devoted "11 minutes and 14 seconds" of coverage to the gang rape story. They, of course, were happy to, because it supported the narrative that a brutal "rape culture" exists on American campuses. The narrative has been discredited, but the media played a prominent role in its development and will not easily let it go.
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/rolling-stone-rape-story-example-of-media-bias/


Fact
PSU Board of Trustees never checked the veracity of any claim of abuse
. They paid all claims without question to the tune of [insert accurate amount].

Fact
Each settlement that PSU paid contained a clause that prevented the claimant from pursuing additional monetary compensation from The Second Mile and/or former board members of The Second Mile.

Fact
Many board members of The Second Mile were also prominent members of the PSU Board of Trustees, PA Politicians or PSU contributors.
 

LundyPSU

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Jan 5, 2002
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Lundy, what is inaccurate? I want to be accurate. Please inform me. Thanks.
Based on testimony that we have seen, Joe never asked Mike if he was ok with how it was being handled. At minimum, V6 testified to abuse on PSU campus.
 

PSU2UNC

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Feb 9, 2016
6,476
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Based on testimony that we have seen, Joe never asked Mike if he was ok with how it was being handled. At minimum, V6 testified to abuse on PSU campus.

To be fair, victim 6 "shower incident" was reported to authorities who did not pursue charges in 1998.
 
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bplionfan

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Jul 1, 2014
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Based on testimony that we have seen, Joe never asked Mike if he was ok with how it was being handled. At minimum, V6 testified to abuse on PSU campus.

Thanks Lundy. I changed wording. Victim 6 was the one whose claim in 1998 was where JS was exonerated. I saw some articles about Joes follow-up that indicated he did so that is why I included it.
 

bkmtnittany1

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Jan 12, 2014
9,076
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"Joe Paterno didn’t agree with giving access to PSU facilities for 2nd Mile use in Jerry Sandusky retirement package due to insurance liability issues. Joe was overruled."

He was in fact overruled by one Rodney Erickson...who later gets an effing building named after him. And JVP was the most powerful man in the state...yea, ok.
 

Nittany Ned2

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Dec 16, 2005
7,112
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Fact
Joe Paterno never covered up for Jerry Sandusky.
From the State Prosecutors Office. Chief Deputy Attorney General Frank Fina, the man who led the Sandusky investigation, told 60 Minutes Sports Armen Keteyian he found no evidence that Joe Paterno participated in a cover up of any sort.

Joe Paterno put Mike McQueary in DIRECT touch with AD Tim Curley , Joe Paterno’s direct supervisor and Gary Schultz who had oversight of University Police Department. PSU Police Force is the real Police. The Penn State police force comprises 46 armed officers. According to state law, these have both the power and the duty "to prevent crime, investigate criminal acts … and carry the offender before the proper alderman, justice of the peace, magistrate or bail commissioner."

Fact
Joe Paterno never interfered with the justice system
. Carmine W. Prestia Jr. I've lived and worked in State College for the past 41 years: 25 with the State College Police Department, one year of retirement, and 15 years as a magisterial district judge. Never once in my time as a police officer or judge has anyone in the football program asked me to cover up anything, withdraw a charge, or do something else unethical. I certainly saw a number of players get in trouble. Offenses ranged from simple summary offenses to felonies of the first degree.
http://www.statecollege.com/news/co...gn-paterno-tampered-in-justice-system,988524/

Fact
The Grand Jury report incorrectly stated that Mike McQueary had witnessed a rape.
Joe Paterno was never told a report of a child was being raped. Mike McQueary has testified that he never witnessed Jerry Sandusky raping a boy in the shower, and didn’t tell anyone that he did. Because of the lack of evidence, Jerry was not convicted of a rape with regard to this 2001 incident. Also no victim testified in this incident. There were THREE not guilty verdicts in the Sandusky case and one of them was Count 7 --the incendiary allegation of a rape (IDSI) -- made by Mike McQueary regarding the 2001 incident.

Fact
Joe Paterno was praised by the Attorney General office for his correct handling of the Jerry Sandusky incident in 2001.
Based on the Feb. 2, 2012 subpoena directed at PSU by the US DOJ, Paterno was not a target or even mentioned. Nor did any of the information requested pertain to Paterno.

Fact
Joe Paterno did not ask Mike McQueary to stay quiet on the 2001 incident.
Mike said no one ever gave him instructions to not talk about it. Mike said Coach Paterno was great about the whole thing.

Fact
The Office for the Attorney General did not feel Joe Paterno’s reporting of Jerry Sandusky were cause to be fired.
Paterno is accused of no wrongdoing, and in fact authorities have said he fulfilled his legal obligations by reporting to his superiors.

Fact
Child Welfare agencies approved Jerry Sandusky to adopt 5 children.
These were agencies that were educated and trained to spot people who were harmful to children. Jerry Sandusky also fostered several more children approved by these agencies. The agencies continued to place the children in Jerry Sandusky’s care over the years, and continued to allow Jerry Sandusky access to children at the 2nd Mile charity for at-risk youths.

Fact
The 2nd Mile Charity and youth agencies provided Jerry Sandusky access to trouble youths.
The 2nd Mile gave one on one access to mentors and youth through The Friend and Friend Fitness programs, which pair up adults with children in the hope of fostering positive role model-mentor relationships. The Friend Fitness Program is a mentorship program involving college and elementary students who join together and participate in healthy, educational activities. The Friend Fitness program was available only in Centre County for adolescents.

Fact
Joe Paterno didn’t agree with giving access to PSU facilities for 2nd Mile use in Jerry Sandusky retirement package due to insurance liability issues.
Joe was overruled. In the Jerry Sandusky Penn State Retirement Package in 1998- Sandusky asked for access to training and workout facilities. Paterno put a check mark next to that request to deny that request. In a sidebar, Paterno asked if this was for Sandusky's personal use, or for Second Mile kids, and indicated that due to liability problems, facility access should not be extended to Second Mile kids. Paterno was overruled and Jerry Sandusky was granted access to bring Second Mile kids to workout facilities for the 2nd Mile Friends Fitness program.

Fact
Jerry Sandusky was retired from Penn State in 1999. He did not coach at Penn State after 1999 and wasn't coaching during the 2001 incident.
For his retirement package he received Emeritus Status

Fact
Due to Jerry Sandusky Emeritus Status, Joe Paterno and Penn State could not remove Jerry Sandusky’s access to Penn State Facilities because he had not been convicted of a crime
. Emeritus Status (entitles bearer to a lifetime office and lifetime access to campus) The Freeh report (page 81) states that University counsel (Cynthia Baldwin) said that the University could not legally revoke Sandusky's access to the athletic facilities because of his Emeritus status, and because he had not been convicted of a crime. Page 106 reiterates this. Page 107 adds that Baldwin said "his access could not be eliminated without the University being sued."

Fact
In the Jerry Sandusky trial, no victims testified against Jerry Sandusky that they were abused on Penn State’s campus in 2001.
Also zero victims testified in the trial that they were abused on PSU campus after 2001.

Fact
Joe Paterno had no knowledge of 1998 Jerry Sandusky incident being a crime
. What was eventually known is that Jerry Sandusky was exonerated. The 1998 incident was reported to police and thoroughly investigated by all agencies. The police went as far to set up a sting operation by recording conversations Sandusky had with the boy’s mother. The incident was investigated to the fullest extent and the District Attorney concluded no crimes were committed. DPW didn't even think there was enough cause to "indicate" Jerry Sandusky (a much lower standard is needed for this vs. bringing criminal charges btw) nor did they remove his 1 on 1 access to kids after the 1998 claims.In accordance with 055 Pa. Code § 3490.91. regarding the confidentiality of child abuse reports, the information regarding the nature of the 1998 child abuse investigation of Jerry Sandusky was not provided to Timothy Curley, Dr. Graham Spanier, or Joe Paterno.

Fact
There are no facts that point to Paterno knowing anything in 1970’s
. Joe Paterno had been questioned in his Grand jury testimony if he had any prior to 2001 knowledge of Jerry Sandusky inappropriate sexual conduct.
Q: Other than the incident that Mike McQueary reported to you, do you know in any way, through rumor, direct knowledge or any other fashion, of any other inappropriate sexual conduct by Jerry Sandusky with young boys?
Mr. Paterno: I do not know of anything else that Jerry would be involved in of that nature, no. I do not know of it.

Even the 1976 accuser’s own lawyer Michael Boni said “The headlines of these stories is Paterno knew of Sandusky’s molestation in the ’70s, ’76 or ’77. I’m unaware of direct, irrefutable evidence that that’s the case. Believe me, I’m the last person to defend the guy, but I am the first person to believe in our justice system. And I think you need more than anecdotal evidence or speculative evidence.”

There are 2 claims of abuse in the 1970’s but neither falls into the way Jerry Sandusky was to have victimized the boys
Sandusky victimizing acts according to testimony from his reported victims:
1. Never victimized a female.
2. Never victimized a minor male in the presence of a minor female.
3. Never overtly victimized a minor male in the presence of other minor males.
4. Never overtly victimized a minor male in the (known) presence of other adults.
5. Never victimized a stranger.
6. Never used violence to force himself on a minor male.
7. Never provided victims with drugs or alcohol in the commission of his crimes.
Yet the 70’s claims and previously publicized claims include one or more of these as allegations by claimants who received settlements from Penn State. According to Sandusky's criminal profile, he was an acquaintance offender who slowly groomed his victims to comply with various levels of sexual abuse. Not all victims would comply to the same levels, therefore there is varying testimony about the actual crimes. However, what was consistent among Sandusky's victims was the manner in which he operated or his modus operandi. He met his victims through The Second Mile, took about one year to assess them and choose his targets, then began the grooming and victimizing of them.

Fact
PSU Board of Trustees did not check the veracity of any civil claim of abuse
. They paid claims in the amount of $90 million. Each settlement that PSU paid contained a clause that prevented the claimant to pursue additional monetary compensation from The Second Mile and/or former board members of The Second Mile.

Fact
Joe Paterno did not say he should have done more.
What he did say was qualified: “With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more” Hindsight: wisdom or knowledge gained only after something (usually bad) has happened as was the case in 2011 after Joe Paterno found out the seriousness of the charges against Jerry Sandusky.

Fact
Joe Paterno never committed a major recruiting violation
. For someone who people claim he covered up for Jerry Sandusky in order to win football games one would think that sort of person would then treat rules like recruiting rules with little care. Yet as of 2016, there are only four athletic programs from major conferences on the list of non-cheating schools. They are Penn State, Boston College, Northwestern, and Stanford.

Fact
Joe Paterno's FBI file included zero mentions of Jerry Sandusky or any mention of Joe Paterno being aware of Jerry Sandusky being a child sexual predator.
The file’s accessible 868 pages don’t mention Jerry Sandusky or the former Penn State assistant coach’s child sexual abuse scandal.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/29/joe-paterno-fbi-file-makes-no-mention-jerry-sandus/

Fact
Media fell for false narrative in Atlanta Olympic bomber case when Louis Freeh pinned the crime falsely on Richard Jewell.
In its rush to show the world how quickly it could get is man, the FBI trampled on my rights as a citizen. In its rush for the headline that the hero was the bomber, the media cared nothing for my feelings as a human being. In their mad rush to fulfill their own personal agendas, the FBI and the media almost destroyed me and my mother. You, the media, were looking too. Your cameras trained on my mother and me, your cameras and the FBI followed my every move. I felt like a hunted animal, followed constantly, waiting to be killed. The media said I fit the profile of a lone bomber. That was a lie. The media said I was a former law enforcement officer, a frustrated police wannabe. That was a lie. I was then and am now a law enforcement officer. The fact that I was between jobs and took a position as a security guard at the Olympics did not change that fact. The media said I was an overzealous officer. That was a lie. Three days into the process, the press went into a kind of media frenzy, and at that particular point, the press was not doing Mr. Jewell, the facts, the case, anybody any great service.
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/journalism/j6075/edit/readings/jewell.html
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/sports-july-dec96-jewell_10-28/

Fact
Media fell for false narrative in Duke Lacrosse case that the Duke Lacrosse was covering up for rape.
“The media quickly latched onto a narrative too seductive to check: rich, wild, white jocks had brutalized a working class, black mother of two,” reads the American Journalism Review’s analysis.

Fact
Media fell for false narrative in Virginia Fraternity rape case.
Media Bias: Nearly 40 years ago, Bob Dylan, singing about what he felt was a miscarriage of justice, said, "The newspapers, they all went along for the ride." Today the ride goes on, with broadcasters having jumped aboard. This time, the ride was on the back of a University of Virginia fraternity, smeared by a Rolling Stone article accusing members of the group of the gang rape of a female freshman named "Jackie." "The major broadcast networks," reports the Media Research Center, a media watchdog group, "rushed to the story and devoted multiple segments to both the article and reaction on the school's campus." On Nov. 23 and 24, the Big Three networks devoted "11 minutes and 14 seconds" of coverage to the gang rape story. They, of course, were happy to, because it supported the narrative that a brutal "rape culture" exists on American campuses. The narrative has been discredited, but the media played a prominent role in its development and will not easily let it go.
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/rolling-stone-rape-story-example-of-media-bias/


Send this out pronto to Brennan, Wise and Bilas...and any other "jackwagon" that demonstrates ignorance on the scandal. I would also encourage them to fully investigate if they feel the facts listed above don't match their previous understanding.
 

Obliviax

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 21, 2001
110,439
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1
well done. A common tactic of "joe haters" is to conflate the roles of Joe, Curley, Schultz and Spanier.

Joe has been 100% exonerated by several individuals in a position of authority. Freeh now calls his anti-Joe parts "opinion".

While most charges, and the serious charges, have been dropped against Curley, Schultz and Spanier, they have yet to be adjudicated and we don't know their side of the story.

So, my advice, is to bifurcate Joe from anyone else at PSU when arguing the JS issue. Argue Joe, once that argument is one, turn to the rest.
 

DonP74

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Jan 6, 2006
23,072
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Excellent summary. Isn't Mike getting his day in court next month (Oct. 17th)?
 

LundyPSU

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Gold Member
Jan 5, 2002
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Thanks Lundy. I changed wording. Victim 6 was the one whose claim in 1998 was where JS was exonerated. I saw some articles about Joes follow-up that indicated he did so that is why I included it.
You may want to check the trial testimony again. There may have been others who testified to shower incidents on PSU campus. JS was convicted of certain charges related to V6.
 

bplionfan

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2014
2,025
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Lundy I have removed any reference to prior to 2001. What has been the big issue with complaints from the uniformed is that Joe allowed Jerry to victimize kids at PSU after 2001. That isn't the case.
 

LundyPSU

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Jan 5, 2002
11,486
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Lundy I have removed any reference to prior to 2001. What has been the big issue with complaints from the uniformed is that Joe allowed Jerry to victimize kids at PSU after 2001. That isn't the case.
I disagree. The big issue with the complaints is that JS was able to victimize post-2001. Argument being that JS should have been stopped at that point based on MM's report. Whether or not the incidents post-2001 happened on PSU campus is irrelevant in my opinion.
 
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bplionfan

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I disagree. The big issue with the complaints is that JS was able to victimize post-2001. Argument being that JS should have been stopped at that point based on MM's report. Whether or not the incidents post-2001 happened on PSU campus is irrelevant in my opinion.

Based on my discussion and what I have read from comments, it has not been irrelevant. I frequently hear Joe allowed Jerry to bring kids on campus and to practice and JS was always around the program after 2001. I hear you about post 2001 incidents off campus. But showing Joe had no control over Jerrys access outside of PSU and showing he reported as he should have in 2001 shows those claims are baseless.
 

LundyPSU

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Jan 5, 2002
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Based on my discussion and what I have read from comments, it has not been irrelevant. I frequently hear Joe allowed Jerry to bring kids on campus and to practice and JS was always around the program after 2001. I hear you about post 2001 incidents off campus. But showing Joe had no control over Jerrys access outside of PSU and showing he reported as he should have in 2001 shows those claims are baseless.
The argument is that PSU/Joe have accountability for post-2001 incidents. JS should have been stopped at that point. If he was, then no other incidents would have occurred. The fact that Joe or others saw JS around the program post 2001 raises questions about why no one made a big stink given what was supposedly reported by MM.
 
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psu_83_drummer

Well-Known Member
Excellent summary!

Consider adding that his being over ruled on JS retirement proves he wasn't "the most powerful man in the state". There are also numerous other instances of Joe being over ruled, I would try to add some.

Consider adding something about the timeline of victims, to show how the majority of the abuse took place before Joe was involved in 2001.

Consider adding something on the lack of motivation to cover up for JS when he was a lowly linebackers coach in the 70s, and Joe never really liked JS. Why would he cover for a guy in the 70s, then report in 2001? Why wouldn't he have left town the first chance he had for Michigan or New England to get away from this mess?

Considering beefing up on some of Freeh's other failures, and the fact that he called his own report just an "opinion".


Did the "most powerful man in the state" resign or was he fired?
 

pandaczar12

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Jun 1, 2010
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I disagree. The big issue with the complaints is that JS was able to victimize post-2001. Argument being that JS should have been stopped at that point based on MM's report. Whether or not the incidents post-2001 happened on PSU campus is irrelevant in my opinion.

It is relevant, because we didn't find out he was a pedophile until a decade later. PSU did the right thing with the limited information they had, they couldn't stop his crimes off campus, but put a stop to them on campus. Plus an important piece is that the victims are not numbered according to when they were abused, they are numbered according to when they were identified by the prosecution. I believe only 1 of the victims took place after 2001, and his claims were some of the weakest. So JS either drastically slowed the abuse down, or even stopped it after PSU took action in 2001. That's important!

He should have been stopped in 1998 by the professionals. All subsequent victims are on them.
 

bplionfan

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Jul 1, 2014
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The argument is that PSU/Joe have accountability for post-2001 incidents. JS should have been stopped at that point. If he was, then no other incidents would have occurred. The fact that Joe or others saw JS around the program post 2001 raises questions about why no one made a big stink given what was supposedly reported by MM.

Did Joe, others see Jerry around the program post 2001? Did they see Jerry with kids on campus after 2001. I have not seen any facts to verify that is the case. I believe Mike said he had not. Jerry had access to PSU due to Emeritus Status which I pointed out that they could not remove that because he was not charged with any crimes. From everything I have heard Jerry avoided Joe like the plague plus Joe frequently worked from home late in his career so I doubt Joe would have seen Jerry around.
 

WeR0206

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Apr 9, 2014
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2020evidence.org
Based on testimony that we have seen, Joe never asked Mike if he was ok with how it was being handled. At minimum, V6 testified to abuse on PSU campus.

This isn't involving Joe, but on page 85 of the 12/16/11 prelim MM testified that when TC called him a few weeks later to follow up with what they did/planned to do, MM expressed no dissatisfaction and never said more needed to be done.

MM also testified in the 12/16/11 prelim that after 2001 he never once saw JS around the program with a kid again.
 
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todd brewster

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Mar 15, 2014
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What about Ganim writing a piece about Jerry being called and Joe was a hero for standing against him. No one cared. We can speculate whether it was someone or something, but the fact is that Ganim then changed the story and blamed Joe and then there was the onslaught that Joe was an enabler and Jerry a MONSTER!

Matt and Myers communicated they wanted to stand up for Jerry. Shubin met with them and neither testified. Shubin then negotiated $3 mil apiece from the BOT.

The court allowed hearsay and Jerry was convicted on a felony without a victim or a date in which it happened. Since then, written testimony (that the prosecutor had) from the janitor said that Jerry was not the rapist or molester.

Pure speculation - a new trial for Jerry would have convinced America that there were doubts Joe et al knew Jerry was a MONSTER.

FACT - The PSU alumni did not demand a new trial and are still bitching that America does not understand Joe was not guilty.

BTW, I feel vindicated for fighting other posters for the last 6 years of Joe's career that Joe needs to remain coach. I pointed out how we were 1 play away from the NC game twice in 5 years. In 2011, we were going to a BCS Bowl. In 2012 we had the depth and a mature offensive line to be in the NC game.
 

WeR0206

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2020evidence.org
From 12/16/11 preliminary for CSS, read and judge for yourselves if MM's story adds up.

Pg. 72: MM never used the words anal intercourse or anal sodomy when explaining what he saw to Joe. Here's the actual Q & A b/c I think it's important. Also note how MM keeps saying "I would have told..." instead of "I told him....."

Roberto questioning MM

Q: Did you explain to him anal intercourse?

A: No. I would have explained to him the positions they were in roughly, that it was definitely sexual, but I have never used the words anal or rape in this -- since day one.

Q: Right, and you didn't use those words because you weren't sure that that is what was happening in the shower, right?

A: Ma'am. I'm sure I saw what I saw in the shower. I'm sure of that. I did not see insertion or penetration and I didn't hear protests or any verbiage but I do know what I saw and the positions they were in that -- and it was very clear that it looked like there was intercourse going on, ma'am.

Q: But you would not say for sure that that's what you saw?
A: I’ve testified that I cannot tell you 1,000 percent sure that that’s what was going on
Q: Well, let’s just say 100 percent sure
A: Okay, 100 percent sure
Q: Okay, you can’t say that?
A: No

Pg. 74: Q: And you went to Coach Paterno in lieu of, not in addition to, going to police that night?
A: I went to coach Paterno first
Q: Okay, did you go to police that day of – the day you spoke to Mr. Paterno?
A: No
Q: Did you go the next day?
A: No I did not
Q: Did you make any conclusion to Coach Paterno about what was happening
A: Yes, it was extremely sexual, yes
Q: Did you say extremely sexual in nature?
A: In nature?
Q: Yes
A: I can’t remember if I said the word in nature or not ma’am. I don’t know that
Q: Did you ever use the word fondling?
A: I’m sure I did to help describe what I was seeing. I’m sure I did use the word fondling, yes ma’am

Q: Okay, did you see any type of fondling with Mr. Sandusky’s hands on the boy?
A: No, I’ve already stated that when I saw his arms wrapped around the boy, that I could not see his hands. The bodies were blocking --
Q: Okay
A: -- his hands so I cannot say that I saw Mr. Sandusky’s hands on a boy’s genitals, no ma’am.
Q: So you can’t – how would you describe fondling, I’m sort of confused here

A: Fondling is touching someone in a sexual way. I don’t know if that’s the exact definition, but that’s what my definition is.
Q: Okay, so that’s what you thought you saw
A: Yes ma’am.
Q: Okay
A: without a doubt
Q: Okay, now when you talked with Mr. Paterno and he told you what he was going to do, he was going to – did he tell you what he was going to do?
A: Yes ma’am. As I already stated, he said that he needed to think and contact some other people and that he would get back to me.
Q: Okay, and did you ask Coach Paterno if those other people meant the police?
A: No ma’am. I did not ask him that.
Q: And did you say to Coach Paterno, coach, I really appreciate it and I also think we should call the police
A: No, I did not


**again, another WTF piece of MM’s testimony that doesn’t jive with him being certain a sex act occurred that night--the thought never occurred to him while talking to Joe the next day that the police needed to be informed???**

Pg. 78: MM could not remember if he told anyone else about what he saw in the 10 day interim before meeting with Tim Curley
Pg. 79: MM never took any notes when he met with TC. Also he never wrote down or memorialized what he saw in the Lasch building that night until he had to do it for the OAG ten years later.
Pg. 81: Q: When you met with Mr. Curley, did you say I believe he was having anal intercourse with this boy?
A: I would have not used the words anal intercourse. I would have said extremely sexual act and I think it was intercourse.


Pg. 82: MM states TC told him he would look into it and follow up with him and MM states that TC DID in fact follow up with him. Also, MM can’t remember whether or not TC asked him any clarifying questions during the meeting.
Pg. 83: Q: When you were with Mr. Curley did you say to him – and this was ten days later?
A: Yes
Q: Did you say to him I think we should call the police?
A: No, I would not have said that to him, no
Q: And, in fact, that was consistent, you never said it to anybody in those 10 to 12 days, right?
A: No. sitting right next to Mr. Curley in that meeting in my mind is the police. I want to make that clear. I mean, that’s the person on campus who the police reports to, just so you know
Q: I’m sure Mr. Farrell will follow up with you on that.
Pg. 85: MM never once saw JS around the program with a child since the 2001 incident. Also, when TC followed up with MM by telephone to tell him this is what we’ve done and what we’ve decided to do, MM did NOT dispute or oppose or say that they needed to do more.

**Chew on that last one for a few minutes. Apparently the state/freeh/etc. is claiming that C/S should have somehow done more even though the only witness was fine with their course of action…truly unreal.**
 
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JeannieNeedsAShooter

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Here's a list of 25 facts JZ put together a couple years ago.

The "victim" in the "McQueary episode" (the most famous incident of alleged child molestation in American history) never testified and only ever said he wasn't abused.

Mike McQueary and the Attorney General's office got the date the month and the year of the episode
wrong and Jerry Sandusky almost immediately knew it after the grand jury presentment was released.

Neither Sandusky nor the "boy" even knew that McQueary was the witness.

Sandusky was somehow found not guilty on the McQueary charge which created the entire media firestorm.

There was an open WR job when the McQueary episode occurred and McQueary didn't get it until four years later. He is not claiming to have been part of a cover-up in his lawsuit against Penn State.

John Surma, the man who canceled Joe Paterno's final press conference and announced his firing, had asked Graham Spanier about firing Paterno well before the "scandal" and has a brother who blamed Paterno for the demise of his son (and who also once lived with Sandusky!).

Sandusky prosecutor Frank Fina has said on national television that Joe Paterno was not involved in a cover-up (so the prosecution believes the "cover-up" didn't include the only witness and the most powerful person on campus) and Governor Tom Corbett has said he should not have been fired.

Bob Costas changed his mind about Joe Paterno being involved in a cover up here and said so on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno agreeing. No one cared.

Louis Freeh never spoke to Jerry Sandusky, Dottie Sandusky, Mike McQueary, Allan Myers (Victim 2), Joe Paterno, Tim Curley, or Gary Schultz, and he barely mentioned his last-minute interview with Graham Spanier.

Graham Spanier had his top national security clearance re-confirmed by the Obama administration after his indictment.

Aaron Fisher's stepfather was recently arrested and charged, in two states, with over 100 counts
of child molestation including against his own child.

The prosecution stipulated at Sandusky's trial that Sarah Ganim, who won the Pulitzer Prize for her work on the story, had contacted the mother of victim six and told her that more victims were needed.

Three of the six original "arrest" victims were photographed along with Sandusky and "Victim 6" in
Jerry's book.

Despite the fact that much of the prosecutions case is based on the notion of Jerry wanted to get caught, (thus the name of his book "Touched" with photos of four the the six victims), Jerry has never confessed, even after all of his appeals were exhausted and after I used Jim Clemente's "guaranteed" formula for getting him to confess.

Dottie Sandusky and her five adopted children are all, against their own self
interest, positive that Jerry is innocent.

Matt Sandusky only ever testified under oath that he was NOT abused and fought
in court for his kids to be able to see Jerry after his arrest.

While tons of porn has been found in the course of the investigation of
Sandusky, not one shred of it was found connected in any way to him.

There was not one shred of physical evidence, evidence of attempted payoffs, or video/audio evidence introduced by the prosecution at Sandusky's trial, but there WAS a accidental tape of the lawyer of Victim 4 conspiring with
investigators to lie to him to finally say Sandusky engaged in sex acts with him.

Not one accuser prior to Jerry's arrest told a first version of their story which was anything close to what they said at trial and not one accuser of Sandusky told anyone contemporaneously of them being sexually abused by him.

At the time of his arrest, after a three year investigation, only two human beings where claiming they engaged in a clear sex act with Sandusky and both of them used the same therapist.

Within a week of Sandusky's arrest, Penn State had fired its two (by far) most prominent employees, held a massive candlelight vigil, and a high-profile prayer right before the next game for the "victims," none of whom had spoken/testified publicly or been crossed-examined yet (and neither had Mike McQueary).

The day after the firing of Paterno and Spanier, it was widely reported in the media that Penn State would be on the hook for up to $100 million to the accusers.

Sandusky was convicted on 5 counts with no witness, no victim, no date and no contemporaneous report.

Sandusky has been convicted and had all of his appeals exhausted before the PSU administrators have come close to even going to trial.

Sandusky was offered the head coaching job at Virginia after his retirement at PSU and the job went to Virginia alum Al Groh at the last minute, not because of rumors about Sandusky, but because Groh lost his last 3 games with the Jets (forcing them to barely miss the playoffs) that year and thought he was going to get fired. The quarterback for the Jets was Vinny Testeverde, who famously threw five interceptions in the 1986 "national championship" game against a Penn State defense coached by Jerry Sandusky.
 

WeR0206

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2014
20,303
25,988
1
2020evidence.org
I posted this in a different thread but think it bears repeating in this one...

Judge for yourself what MM said to people in 01, here is Dr Dranov's testimony from trial:

Dr. Jonathan Dranov was called as a Sandusky defense witness and testified on day 7 of the Sandusky trial, 6/20/2012. He testified to what he heard from Mike McQueary at his father’s house on the evening of 2/9/2001 after Mike had seen Sandusky in the shower with a boy.

The following questions and answers about what Mike told Dr. Dranov start at page 11 of the transcript:
http://co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/upload/SANDUSKY, GERALD 062012 JT.pdf
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: What did he tell you?
A: Well, when I came in, John was there. Mike was there. I believe Mike's mother was there but she disappeared. We sat down. Mike was on the couch. He was visibly shaken and upset. John told him to tell me what, you know -- what he was -- wanted me to hear or what he was going to tell me.

And that is that he had gone into the Penn State football locker room to put away some sneakers that he had apparently just bought. And when he came in, he heard what he described as sexual sounds.
Q: And what did he say subsequent to that?
A: I asked him what he meant and said, Mike, what do you mean? He said, well, sexual sounds, you know what they are. I said, no, Mike, you know, what do you mean? And he couldn't go on. He just seemed to get a little bit more upset. So I kind of left that.
And then he said he looked toward the locker or the shower and a young boy looked around. He made eye contact with the boy. I asked him -- to the best of my recollection, I [page 11] asked him if the boy seemed upset or frightened. He said no. An arm reached out and pulled the boy back.


Q: That's about all he told you he saw?
A: No. I can't remember exactly what he said after that, but it was something about going back to his locker and then he turned around and faced the shower room and a man came out and it was Jerry Sandusky.
Q: That's basically the description he left you with to the best of your recollection that night?
A: Yes.

Q: And no one called 911 or police or anything that particular evening?
A: No.
Q: And neither you nor John to your knowledge followed up and filed anything?
MR. McGETTIGAN: Objection. Leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
By MR. ROMINGER:
Q: Did you guys do anything else at that point?
A: Well, I mean the conversation went on in terms of what had to be done or what should be [page 13] done. I think it was clear in Mike's mind that this was an incident that had to be reported and it was discussed what he should do. You know, he knew that he had to report it, and I encouraged him to report it to his supervisor who was Joe Paterno. So he was strongly advised to do that. I'm not so sure he needed the advice.
Q: As you recollect, did he describe any particular sex act?
MR. McGETTIGAN: Objection. I think he's asked and answered it about the universe of his statements. I think he said, it's all.
THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead and you can ask that question.
BY MR. ROMINGER:
Q: Did he describe seeing any particular sex act?
A: No, he did not. He implied that it had gone on with what he talked about with sexual sounds. But did he give me any kind of graphic description? No.


Dr. Dranov’s testimony ended a few pages later, on pages 15-16:

BY MR. ROMINGER:
Q: But, doctor, you asked him three times if he saw a sexual act?
[page 16]
MR. McGETTIGAN: Objection. That's just a leading question and improper redirect.
THE COURT: Overruled.
BY MR. ROMINGER:
Q: Right?
A: In the conversation, yes. I didn't use the term did you see a sexual act. I kept saying what did you see and each time he would come back to the sounds. I kept saying but what did you see. And it just seemed to make him more upset. So I backed off that.
Q: You're a mandatory reporter?
A: Yes.
Q: Nothing further.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what is clear from Dr. Dranov’s testimony:
McQueary was clearly flustered and upset.
McQueary heard what he described as sexual sounds.
McQueary said the boy did not seem upset or frightened.
McQueary did not actually witness a sex act nor did he describe any particular sex act, but he implied it had gone on based on what he heard.
No one called police that night.
Dr. Dranov is a mandatory reporter of child abuse.
Dr. Dranov encouraged McQueary to report what he witnessed to his supervisor, Joe Paterno.
 

bdgan

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2008
63,287
40,807
1
Fact
Joe Paterno never covered up for Jerry Sandusky.
From the State Prosecutors Office. Chief Deputy Attorney General Frank Fina, the man who led the Sandusky investigation, told 60 Minutes Sports Armen Keteyian he found no evidence that Joe Paterno participated in a cover up of any sort.

Joe Paterno put Mike McQueary in DIRECT touch with AD Tim Curley , Joe Paterno’s direct supervisor and Gary Schultz who had oversight of University Police Department. PSU Police Force is the real Police. The Penn State police force comprises 46 armed officers. According to state law, these have both the power and the duty "to prevent crime, investigate criminal acts … and carry the offender before the proper alderman, justice of the peace, magistrate or bail commissioner."

Fact
Joe Paterno never interfered with the justice system
. Carmine W. Prestia Jr. I've lived and worked in State College for the past 41 years: 25 with the State College Police Department, one year of retirement, and 15 years as a magisterial district judge. Never once in my time as a police officer or judge has anyone in the football program asked me to cover up anything, withdraw a charge, or do something else unethical. I certainly saw a number of players get in trouble. Offenses ranged from simple summary offenses to felonies of the first degree.
http://www.statecollege.com/news/co...gn-paterno-tampered-in-justice-system,988524/

Fact
The Grand Jury report incorrectly stated that Mike McQueary had witnessed a rape.
Joe Paterno was never told a report of a child was being raped. Mike McQueary has testified that he never witnessed Jerry Sandusky raping a boy in the shower, and didn’t tell anyone that he did. Because of the lack of evidence, Jerry was not convicted of a rape with regard to this 2001 incident. Also no victim testified in this incident. There were THREE not guilty verdicts in the Sandusky case and one of them was Count 7 --the incendiary allegation of a rape (IDSI) -- made by Mike McQueary regarding the 2001 incident.

Fact
Joe Paterno was praised by the Attorney General office for his correct handling of the Jerry Sandusky incident in 2001.
Based on the Feb. 2, 2012 subpoena directed at PSU by the US DOJ, Paterno was not a target or even mentioned. Nor did any of the information requested pertain to Paterno.

Fact
Joe Paterno did not ask Mike McQueary to stay quiet on the 2001 incident.
Mike said no one ever gave him instructions to not talk about it. Mike said Coach Paterno was great about the whole thing.

Fact
The Office for the Attorney General did not feel Joe Paterno’s reporting of Jerry Sandusky were cause to be fired.
Paterno is accused of no wrongdoing, and in fact authorities have said he fulfilled his legal obligations by reporting to his superiors.

Fact
Child Welfare agencies approved Jerry Sandusky to adopt 5 children.
These were agencies that were educated and trained to spot people who were harmful to children. Jerry Sandusky also fostered several more children approved by these agencies. The agencies continued to place the children in Jerry Sandusky’s care over the years, and continued to allow Jerry Sandusky access to children at the 2nd Mile charity for at-risk youths.

Fact
The 2nd Mile Charity and youth agencies provided Jerry Sandusky access to trouble youths.
The 2nd Mile gave one on one access to mentors and youth through The Friend and Friend Fitness programs, which pair up adults with children in the hope of fostering positive role model-mentor relationships. The Friend Fitness Program is a mentorship program involving college and elementary students who join together and participate in healthy, educational activities. The Friend Fitness program was available only in Centre County for adolescents.

Fact
Joe Paterno didn’t agree with giving access to PSU facilities for 2nd Mile use in Jerry Sandusky retirement package due to insurance liability issues.
Joe was overruled. In the Jerry Sandusky Penn State Retirement Package in 1998- Sandusky asked for access to training and workout facilities. Paterno put a check mark next to that request to deny that request. In a sidebar, Paterno asked if this was for Sandusky's personal use, or for Second Mile kids, and indicated that due to liability problems, facility access should not be extended to Second Mile kids. Paterno was overruled and Jerry Sandusky was granted access to bring Second Mile kids to workout facilities for the 2nd Mile Friends Fitness program.

Fact
Jerry Sandusky was retired from Penn State in 1999. He did not coach at Penn State after 1999 and wasn't coaching during the 2001 incident.
For his retirement package he received Emeritus Status

Fact
Due to Jerry Sandusky Emeritus Status, Joe Paterno and Penn State could not remove Jerry Sandusky’s access to Penn State Facilities because he had not been convicted of a crime
. Emeritus Status (entitles bearer to a lifetime office and lifetime access to campus) The Freeh report (page 81) states that University counsel (Cynthia Baldwin) said that the University could not legally revoke Sandusky's access to the athletic facilities because of his Emeritus status, and because he had not been convicted of a crime. Page 106 reiterates this. Page 107 adds that Baldwin said "his access could not be eliminated without the University being sued."

Fact
In the Jerry Sandusky trial, no victims testified against Jerry Sandusky that they were abused on Penn State’s campus in 2001.
Also zero victims testified in the trial that they were abused on PSU campus after 2001.

Fact
Joe Paterno had no knowledge of 1998 Jerry Sandusky incident being a crime
. What was eventually known is that Jerry Sandusky was exonerated. The 1998 incident was reported to police and thoroughly investigated by all agencies. The police went as far to set up a sting operation by recording conversations Sandusky had with the boy’s mother. The incident was investigated to the fullest extent and the District Attorney concluded no crimes were committed. DPW didn't even think there was enough cause to "indicate" Jerry Sandusky (a much lower standard is needed for this vs. bringing criminal charges btw) nor did they remove his 1 on 1 access to kids after the 1998 claims.In accordance with 055 Pa. Code § 3490.91. regarding the confidentiality of child abuse reports, the information regarding the nature of the 1998 child abuse investigation of Jerry Sandusky was not provided to Timothy Curley, Dr. Graham Spanier, or Joe Paterno.

Fact
There are no facts that point to Paterno knowing anything in 1970’s
. Joe Paterno had been questioned in his Grand jury testimony if he had any prior to 2001 knowledge of Jerry Sandusky inappropriate sexual conduct.
Q: Other than the incident that Mike McQueary reported to you, do you know in any way, through rumor, direct knowledge or any other fashion, of any other inappropriate sexual conduct by Jerry Sandusky with young boys?
Mr. Paterno: I do not know of anything else that Jerry would be involved in of that nature, no. I do not know of it.

Even the 1976 accuser’s own lawyer Michael Boni said “The headlines of these stories is Paterno knew of Sandusky’s molestation in the ’70s, ’76 or ’77. I’m unaware of direct, irrefutable evidence that that’s the case. Believe me, I’m the last person to defend the guy, but I am the first person to believe in our justice system. And I think you need more than anecdotal evidence or speculative evidence.”

There are 2 claims of abuse in the 1970’s but neither falls into the way Jerry Sandusky was to have victimized the boys
Sandusky victimizing acts according to testimony from his reported victims:
1. Never victimized a female.
2. Never victimized a minor male in the presence of a minor female.
3. Never overtly victimized a minor male in the presence of other minor males.
4. Never overtly victimized a minor male in the (known) presence of other adults.
5. Never victimized a stranger.
6. Never used violence to force himself on a minor male.
7. Never provided victims with drugs or alcohol in the commission of his crimes.
Yet the 70’s claims and previously publicized claims include one or more of these as allegations by claimants who received settlements from Penn State. According to Sandusky's criminal profile, he was an acquaintance offender who slowly groomed his victims to comply with various levels of sexual abuse. Not all victims would comply to the same levels, therefore there is varying testimony about the actual crimes. However, what was consistent among Sandusky's victims was the manner in which he operated or his modus operandi. He met his victims through The Second Mile, took about one year to assess them and choose his targets, then began the grooming and victimizing of them.

Fact
PSU Board of Trustees did not check the veracity of any civil claim of abuse
. They paid claims in the amount of $90 million. Each settlement that PSU paid contained a clause that prevented the claimant to pursue additional monetary compensation from The Second Mile and/or former board members of The Second Mile.

Fact
Joe Paterno did not say he should have done more.
What he did say was qualified: “With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more” Hindsight: wisdom or knowledge gained only after something (usually bad) has happened as was the case in 2011 after Joe Paterno found out the seriousness of the charges against Jerry Sandusky.

Fact
Joe Paterno never committed a major recruiting violation
. For someone who people claim he covered up for Jerry Sandusky in order to win football games one would think that sort of person would then treat rules like recruiting rules with little care. Yet as of 2016, there are only four athletic programs from major conferences on the list of non-cheating schools. They are Penn State, Boston College, Northwestern, and Stanford.

Fact
Joe Paterno's FBI file included zero mentions of Jerry Sandusky or any mention of Joe Paterno being aware of Jerry Sandusky being a child sexual predator.
The file’s accessible 868 pages don’t mention Jerry Sandusky or the former Penn State assistant coach’s child sexual abuse scandal.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/29/joe-paterno-fbi-file-makes-no-mention-jerry-sandus/

Fact
Media fell for false narrative in Atlanta Olympic bomber case when Louis Freeh pinned the crime falsely on Richard Jewell.
In its rush to show the world how quickly it could get is man, the FBI trampled on my rights as a citizen. In its rush for the headline that the hero was the bomber, the media cared nothing for my feelings as a human being. In their mad rush to fulfill their own personal agendas, the FBI and the media almost destroyed me and my mother. You, the media, were looking too. Your cameras trained on my mother and me, your cameras and the FBI followed my every move. I felt like a hunted animal, followed constantly, waiting to be killed. The media said I fit the profile of a lone bomber. That was a lie. The media said I was a former law enforcement officer, a frustrated police wannabe. That was a lie. I was then and am now a law enforcement officer. The fact that I was between jobs and took a position as a security guard at the Olympics did not change that fact. The media said I was an overzealous officer. That was a lie. Three days into the process, the press went into a kind of media frenzy, and at that particular point, the press was not doing Mr. Jewell, the facts, the case, anybody any great service.
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/journalism/j6075/edit/readings/jewell.html
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/sports-july-dec96-jewell_10-28/

Fact
Media fell for false narrative in Duke Lacrosse case that the Duke Lacrosse was covering up for rape.
“The media quickly latched onto a narrative too seductive to check: rich, wild, white jocks had brutalized a working class, black mother of two,” reads the American Journalism Review’s analysis.

Fact
Media fell for false narrative in Virginia Fraternity rape case.
Media Bias: Nearly 40 years ago, Bob Dylan, singing about what he felt was a miscarriage of justice, said, "The newspapers, they all went along for the ride." Today the ride goes on, with broadcasters having jumped aboard. This time, the ride was on the back of a University of Virginia fraternity, smeared by a Rolling Stone article accusing members of the group of the gang rape of a female freshman named "Jackie." "The major broadcast networks," reports the Media Research Center, a media watchdog group, "rushed to the story and devoted multiple segments to both the article and reaction on the school's campus." On Nov. 23 and 24, the Big Three networks devoted "11 minutes and 14 seconds" of coverage to the gang rape story. They, of course, were happy to, because it supported the narrative that a brutal "rape culture" exists on American campuses. The narrative has been discredited, but the media played a prominent role in its development and will not easily let it go.
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/rolling-stone-rape-story-example-of-media-bias/

I agree 100% with the spirit of your post but a few of those things aren't facts. Start with your first "fact" that Joe never covered up for Sandusky. It's possible that Joe encouraged Curley to confront JS directly rather than report to external authorities. I don't think that's what happened but Curley is the only one who knows for sure and he's not talking.

The blood thirsty media can't prove Joe's guilt any more than Joe's family can prove his innocence. Unfortunately the media doesn't have a burden of proof.
 

colt21

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Jan 30, 2007
5,538
4,055
1
I posted this in a different thread but think it bears repeating in this one...

Judge for yourself what MM said to people in 01, here is Dr Dranov's testimony from trial:

Dr. Jonathan Dranov was called as a Sandusky defense witness and testified on day 7 of the Sandusky trial, 6/20/2012. He testified to what he heard from Mike McQueary at his father’s house on the evening of 2/9/2001 after Mike had seen Sandusky in the shower with a boy.

The following questions and answers about what Mike told Dr. Dranov start at page 11 of the transcript:
http://co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/upload/SANDUSKY, GERALD 062012 JT.pdf
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: What did he tell you?
A: Well, when I came in, John was there. Mike was there. I believe Mike's mother was there but she disappeared. We sat down. Mike was on the couch. He was visibly shaken and upset. John told him to tell me what, you know -- what he was -- wanted me to hear or what he was going to tell me.

And that is that he had gone into the Penn State football locker room to put away some sneakers that he had apparently just bought. And when he came in, he heard what he described as sexual sounds.
Q: And what did he say subsequent to that?
A: I asked him what he meant and said, Mike, what do you mean? He said, well, sexual sounds, you know what they are. I said, no, Mike, you know, what do you mean? And he couldn't go on. He just seemed to get a little bit more upset. So I kind of left that.
And then he said he looked toward the locker or the shower and a young boy looked around. He made eye contact with the boy. I asked him -- to the best of my recollection, I [page 11] asked him if the boy seemed upset or frightened. He said no. An arm reached out and pulled the boy back.


Q: That's about all he told you he saw?
A: No. I can't remember exactly what he said after that, but it was something about going back to his locker and then he turned around and faced the shower room and a man came out and it was Jerry Sandusky.
Q: That's basically the description he left you with to the best of your recollection that night?
A: Yes.

Q: And no one called 911 or police or anything that particular evening?
A: No.
Q: And neither you nor John to your knowledge followed up and filed anything?
MR. McGETTIGAN: Objection. Leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
By MR. ROMINGER:
Q: Did you guys do anything else at that point?
A: Well, I mean the conversation went on in terms of what had to be done or what should be [page 13] done. I think it was clear in Mike's mind that this was an incident that had to be reported and it was discussed what he should do. You know, he knew that he had to report it, and I encouraged him to report it to his supervisor who was Joe Paterno. So he was strongly advised to do that. I'm not so sure he needed the advice.
Q: As you recollect, did he describe any particular sex act?
MR. McGETTIGAN: Objection. I think he's asked and answered it about the universe of his statements. I think he said, it's all.
THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead and you can ask that question.
BY MR. ROMINGER:
Q: Did he describe seeing any particular sex act?
A: No, he did not. He implied that it had gone on with what he talked about with sexual sounds. But did he give me any kind of graphic description? No.


Dr. Dranov’s testimony ended a few pages later, on pages 15-16:

BY MR. ROMINGER:
Q: But, doctor, you asked him three times if he saw a sexual act?
[page 16]
MR. McGETTIGAN: Objection. That's just a leading question and improper redirect.
THE COURT: Overruled.
BY MR. ROMINGER:
Q: Right?
A: In the conversation, yes. I didn't use the term did you see a sexual act. I kept saying what did you see and each time he would come back to the sounds. I kept saying but what did you see. And it just seemed to make him more upset. So I backed off that.
Q: You're a mandatory reporter?
A: Yes.
Q: Nothing further.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what is clear from Dr. Dranov’s testimony:
McQueary was clearly flustered and upset.
McQueary heard what he described as sexual sounds.
McQueary said the boy did not seem upset or frightened.
McQueary did not actually witness a sex act nor did he describe any particular sex act, but he implied it had gone on based on what he heard.
No one called police that night.
Dr. Dranov is a mandatory reporter of child abuse.
Dr. Dranov encouraged McQueary to report what he witnessed to his supervisor, Joe Paterno.


The absolutely most important phrase in that whole document is the last one - report to his "supervisor"!

As I said a hundred times already - if Joe was not MMs SUPERVISOR, he would not have even been involved with this. Further, he did exactly what he should have with the information he was given, in his ROLE (that of a supervisor), at that time !!
 

UncleLar

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
16,121
2,530
1
Thanks Lundy. I changed wording. Victim 6 was the one whose claim in 1998 was where JS was exonerated. I saw some articles about Joes follow-up that indicated he did so that is why I included it.

If you read McQueary's detailed testimony regarding Paterno's subsequently asking MM if he "was OK", McQueary makes it clear that what Paterno was asking and what he was responding to was in regard to his mental health. It was more along the lines of "are you doing ok?" not "are you ok with the way that the investigation has been handled?". Those are two very different questions and people continually mistakenly state that McQueary told Paterno that he was ok with how things were handled. MM most definitely did not state that.
 
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JoeDidntKnow

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Sep 6, 2015
2,551
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I think these FACTS should be forwarded to every PSU fan that adores Joe & Sue Paterno, The Grand Experiment & 61 year of excellence on and off the field. Joe died fighting for what was right and for us loyal fans that loved the man and his integrity. Joe was a humble man and I'm sure he's overwhelmed looking down from heaven by all the attention but we owe him justice and we need to make sure those that are against justice are not rewarded.

It really galls me that Baron thinks that this brief mention of the first game is going to appease us. Eff him and his token measure to appease his slave masters - the BOT. The Paterno's are the true VICTIMS and until they have been restored to their rightful position in history there will be no moving on. If the overwhelming support and turnout at the memorial last weekend didn't wake these people out of their comma we need to ratchet up the pressure.
 
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JmmyW

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2013
546
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If you read McQueary's detailed testimony regarding Paterno's subsequently asking MM if he "was OK", McQueary makes it clear that what Paterno was asking and what he was responding to was in regard to his mental health. It was more along the lines of "are you doing ok?" not "are you ok with the way that the investigation has been handled?". Those are two very different questions and people continually mistakenly state that McQueary told Paterno that he was ok with how things were handled. MM most definitely did not state that.

Right. McQueary clarified Paterno's inquiry was whether he was ok emotionally.

Testimony at 7/29/2013 prelimanry hearing, at 51.
http://www.dauphincounty.org/govern...013 Preliminary Hearing Transcript 1 of 2.PDF

Q. Okay. You described last time having a
meeting with him where he asked if you were okay.
A. Yes, very informally before like a staff
meeting he said, hey, do you need to talk to
anyone, are you okay, is there anything I can do
for you.

Let me make sure I'm clear on this. It
was emotionally and psychologically personally
for me. It was not, are you okay with how this
has been handled. I hope I'm clear on that.
 

Bob78

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2001
8,310
9,287
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I agree 100% with the spirit of your post but a few of those things aren't facts. Start with your first "fact" that Joe never covered up for Sandusky. It's possible that Joe encouraged Curley to confront JS directly rather than report to external authorities. I don't think that's what happened but Curley is the only one who knows for sure and he's not talking.

The blood thirsty media can't prove Joe's guilt any more than Joe's family can prove his innocence. Unfortunately the media doesn't have a burden of proof.

The common assumption regarding JVP talking with Curley is that he suggested talking to JS as well as taking it to whatever outside agency they were going to. Not 'rather than'. At least that is what I have heard a few times. JVP, as demonstrated in the Rashard Casey incident, believed in getting the accused's side of the story as well. I don't think (and would never believe) JVP would suggest not contacting the proper authorities if that needed to be done, as it would be for an assault.