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Kentucky Derby winner fails drug test

Nitwit

Nitwit

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Jul 18, 2001
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It looks like Bob Baffert is in some trouble. Medina Spirit, has failed a drug test and its Hall of Fame trainer Bob Baffert has been indefinitely suspended from Churchill Downs, officials said Sunday.

In a news conference Sunday morning, Baffert said the winning horse tested positive for 21 picograms of betamethasone, 11 picograms above the legal limit in Kentucky racing. Shortly after, Churchill Downs, who hosts the Derby, announced his suspension.
So this won’t effect the betters who won or lost money as a result of these shenanigans, but the purse for the winner will be withheld from the Medina Spirit owners. Maybe now the press will stop gushing over Baffert, and the horse will not be running in the Preakness. Horse racing is a very crooked sport and this certainly tarnishes all the fancy hats and bourbon aura.
 
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Nitwit said:
It looks like Bob Baffert is in some trouble. Medina Spirit, has failed a drug test and its Hall of Fame trainer Bob Baffert has been indefinitely suspended from Churchill Downs, officials said Sunday.

In a news conference Sunday morning, Baffert said the winning horse tested positive for 21 picograms of betamethasone, 11 picograms above the legal limit in Kentucky racing. Shortly after, Churchill Downs, who hosts the Derby, announced his suspension.
So this won’t effect the betters who won or lost money as a result of these shenanigans, but the purse for the winner will be withheld from the Medina Spirit owners.
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It’s funny, other sports that see one consistent winner when there really shouldn’t be (hello Lance Armstrong) often investigates and finds cheating, but college football doesn’t.
 
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AWS1022 said:
It’s funny, other sports that see one consistent winner when there really shouldn’t be (hello Lance Armstrong) often investigates and finds cheating, but college football doesn’t.
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I guess tennis tests because Sharipova was found to have had something and was suspended , but I’ve always suspected that Serena Williams must have had some sort of drug help to develop her body the way it has. It just doesn’t look natural. The same is true now with Bryson Dechambeau. He got too big too fast and Tiger for awhile was looking like a linebacker as is Koepka now. Do golfers get tested?
 
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Nitwit said:
I guess tennis tests because Sharipova was found to have had something and was suspended , but I’ve always suspected that Serena Williams must have had some sort of drug help to develop her body the way it has. It just doesn’t look natural. The same is true now with Bryson Dechambeau. He got too big too fast and Tiger for awhile was looking like a linebacker as is Koepka now. Do golfers get tested?
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They certainly do get tested both on the PGA and LPGA tours. Not sure of USGA events or the minor pro tours.
 
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If you think horse racing is crooked, harness racing is far worse. An old timer bookie acquaintance told me that Jai alai was the most crooked sport that you could legally bet on followed by harness racing and greyhounds (do they even race dogs anymore?).
 
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AWS1022 said:
It’s funny, other sports that see one consistent winner when there really shouldn’t be (hello Lance Armstrong) often investigates and finds cheating, but college football doesn’t.
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Horse racing doesn't have a "league office" or similar central oversight, it's up to state regulation. In PA the Horse Racing Commission is under the Dept. of Agriculture, for example. In KY their racing commission is its own entity but is nonetheless an arm of state government. Unsure about other big racing states such as NY, FL, CA. In any event, it's going to be some shady government agency digging around to find positives for banned substances in racing rather than some other crooked organization such as the USOC or the NCAA. :D
 
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Nitwit said:
I guess tennis tests because Sharipova was found to have had something and was suspended , but I’ve always suspected that Serena Williams must have had some sort of drug help to develop her body the way it has. It just doesn’t look natural. The same is true now with Bryson Dechambeau. He got too big too fast and Tiger for awhile was looking like a linebacker as is Koepka now. Do golfers get tested?
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I agree 100% with you about Serena and Tiger.
 
A long time ago I met a jockey who was in the army reserves. He was pissed off because he had to go to his 2 week summer camp duty and miss a mount he had ridden in 3 previous races. The horse’s owner had told him to hold the horse back in each of these races but was going to let him run the next time he raced him. So basically the owner was manipulating the odds by turning his horse into a long shot before going all out for the win. And the jockey was going to miss his percentage of the payout when the horse finished in the money. If you’re a bettor, not only do you need to evaluate the horse, but you need to know what’s going on with the owner and trainer too.
 
Nitwit said:
A long time ago I met a jockey who was in the army reserves. He was pissed off because he had to go to his 2 week summer camp duty and miss a mount he had ridden in 3 previous races. The horse’s owner had told him to hold the horse back in each of these races but was going to let him run the next time he raced him. So basically the owner was manipulating the odds by turning his horse into a long shot before going all out for the win. And the jockey was going to miss his percentage of the payout when the horse finished in the money. If you’re a bettor, not only do you need to evaluate the horse, but you need to know what’s going on with the owner and trainer too.
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Trainer, Horse, jockey. That was how I was taught to bet and it served me well.
 
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iu
 
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cment said:
If you think horse racing is crooked, harness racing is far worse.
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As a fan on going to the small harness tracks since the 70s I can verge for this. While everyone knew that some funny business was going on it was not until recently say the past 10-15 years that the fans have really stopped going to the track anymore. Even before covid my local track would only have a couple of hundred fans in the stands on a good night. Long gone are the Friday and Saturday nights when they used to race in front of 10k live at the track.
 
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Nitwit said:
I guess tennis tests because Sharipova was found to have had something and was suspended , but I’ve always suspected that Serena Williams must have had some sort of drug help to develop her body the way it has. It just doesn’t look natural. The same is true now with Bryson Dechambeau. He got too big too fast and Tiger for awhile was looking like a linebacker as is Koepka now. Do golfers get tested?
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I doubt Deschambeau is on roids, and neither is Koepka.
 
The thing about drug testing in horse racing -- any sport, really -- is that the positive law standards can actually beget cheating. For every banned substance, there is a permissible level, and the reality is that trainers basically just seek to manage to the level. Occasionally, they or the vet screw up in dosing.
 
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Connorpozlee said:
I’ve never really had any doubt about Tiger. It’s not like I look at his life away from golf and think, “He seems too sincere and moral to cheat.”
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What is interesting to me is that the athletes who have fallen the farthest from the peak of their stardom frequently have a common theme: Nike.

Woods.
Armstrong.
Vick.
Pistorius.

The likes of Sharapova, Marion Jones, Peterson, Rice, are, shockingly, just "minor" transgressors in their universe. My working theory is that with the money comes management, and with the management comes enabling.
 
Aardvark86 said:
What is interesting to me is that the athletes who have fallen the farthest from the peak of their stardom frequently have a common theme: Nike.

Woods.
Armstrong.
Vick.
Pistorius.

The likes of Sharapova, Marion Jones, Peterson, Rice, are, shockingly, just "minor" transgressors in their universe. My working theory is that with the money comes management, and with the management comes enabling.
Click to expand...
The Mike Vick and Oscar Pistorius situations are wildly different than Woods, Armstrong, and Baffert.
 
I think the test found traces of an anti inflammatory drum in the horse, .001 of a gram or one tenth of one percent to be exact. They've come out and admitted that this is not a performance enhancing drug. When a 1000lb animal trains and runs at 45mph leading up to Grade 1 race it may develop some @#$%^&* soreness!! PETA is driving this bus and bulling tracks to implement these insane rules! Monmouth Park is outlawing the whip which will ultimately shut that track down. Without the whip it will be theoretically impossible to set odds, you will not be able to urge a profoundly faster horse to win a race and you will see horses literally give up on a jockey. European horse racing commissions in France and England realized that outlawing the whip would have destroyed a 50 Billion dollar a year industry so they struck a compromise on the whip issue.
 
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Aardvark86 said:
What is interesting to me is that the athletes who have fallen the farthest from the peak of their stardom frequently have a common theme: Nike.

Woods.
Armstrong.
Vick.
Pistorius.

The likes of Sharapova, Marion Jones, Peterson, Rice, are, shockingly, just "minor" transgressors in their universe. My working theory is that with the money comes management, and with the management comes enabling.
Click to expand...

Well, but Nike is involved with so many athletes that it's basically inevitable that the majority of major athletes who get in trouble will be connected to Nike. It's a little like saying "we've found that the majority of murderers were on social media." Well yeah, but only because the majority of the general population is. Correlation, not causation.
 
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Nitwit said:
I guess tennis tests because Sharipova was found to have had something and was suspended , but I’ve always suspected that Serena Williams must have had some sort of drug help to develop her body the way it has. It just doesn’t look natural. The same is true now with Bryson Dechambeau. He got too big too fast and Tiger for awhile was looking like a linebacker as is Koepka now. Do golfers get tested?
Click to expand...

Well Tiger was closely associated with the Dr. Who supplied roids to Arod and others. The Dr. Was from Canada and had no ability to practice in the US.

Serena, no doubt. I mean she roid raged more than once on the court.

LdN
 
RU31trap said:
I think the test found traces of an anti inflammatory in the horse, .001 of a gram or one tenth of one percent to be exact. They've come out and admitted that this is not a performance enhancing drug. When a 1000lb animal trains and runs at 45mph leading up to Grade 1 race it may develop some @#$%^&* soreness!! PETA is driving this bus and bulling tracks to implement these insane rules! Monmouth Park is outlawing the whip which will ultimately shut that track down. Without the whip it will be theoretically impossible to set odds, you will not be able to urge a profoundly faster horse to win a race and you will see horses literally give up on a jockey. European horse racing commissions in France and England realized that outlawing the whip would have destroyed a 50 Billion dollar a year industry so they struck a compromise on the whip issue.
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Fun fact: a lot of banned substances in sports doping are not actually "performance enhancing" in the strict sense. But they do facilitate recovery. And so they are performance enhancing.
 
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Nitwit said:
I guess tennis tests because Sharipova was found to have had something and was suspended , but I’ve always suspected that Serena Williams must have had some sort of drug help to develop her body the way it has. It just doesn’t look natural.
Click to expand...
It's a racket
 
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wbcincy said:
Well, but Nike is involved with so many athletes that it's basically inevitable that the majority of major athletes who get in trouble will be connected to Nike. It's a little like saying "we've found that the majority of murderers were on social media." Well yeah, but only because the majority of the general population is. Correlation, not causation.
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True, they are, and fair enough on correlation/causation. But who's the biggest fallen angel for Adidas? for Reebok? Under Armour? (Funnily enough, Adidas and UA seemed to have had their own scandals.)

(Incidentally, I didn't even mention that certain Nike "university" deal that had a fall associated with it, as I do think that's a different animal.)
 
Aardvark86 said:
True, they are, and fair enough on correlation/causation. But who's the biggest fallen angel for Adidas? for Reebok? Under Armour? (Funnily enough, Adidas and UA seemed to have had their own scandals.)

(Incidentally, I didn't even mention that certain Nike "university" deal that had a fall associated with it, as I do think that's a different animal.)
Click to expand...

Any thoughts on why the connection would result in this failings? I guess that's why I have trouble connecting it. These were going to be entitled athletes who felt the rules didn't apply to them regardless of who their shoe deal is with, so how do you think a connection with Nike enabled them further? Genuinely asking out of curiosity if there's something I've not considered.
 
LionDeNittany said:
Well Tiger was closely associated with the Dr. Who supplied roids to Arod and others. The Dr. Was from Canada and had no ability to practice in the US.

Serena, no doubt. I mean she roid raged more than once on the court.

LdN
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Dr. Who supplied roids? I never suspected him of that, but I suppose with the Tardis nearby he could always hide out.
 
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Baffert, in an interview this morning, said that these tests are a) not uniform from state to state b) way too sensitive in terms of what is and what is not a meaningful dose that would affect a horse and c) that horses can get these trace amounts from anywhere. In other words, it is a horse. You can't teach it what to eat and what not to eat. If it can eat something it thinks is good, it is going to eat it.

Finally, he denied the horse having any supplements at all, let alone in the amount the test revealed.

I guess this is predictable but I didn't see any posts giving his side of the story.
 
wbcincy said:
Any thoughts on why the connection would result in this failings? I guess that's why I have trouble connecting it. These were going to be entitled athletes who felt the rules didn't apply to them regardless of who their shoe deal is with, so how do you think a connection with Nike enabled them further? Genuinely asking out of curiosity if there's something I've not considered.
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As I said originally, I suspect when nike makes these kinds of investments, particularly mega-investments, they try to protect and enhance that investment. In other words, I suspect it comes with its own image management infrastructure (or funding therefor), which encompasses everything from some entourage members to "fixers." Sooner or later, the athletes come to truly believe their shit doesn't stink, the handlers cater to their every need/demand to minimize the risk of them trying to satisfy it on their own, they become privately isolated notwithstanding their public persona, and eventually, that they are infallible. And in some cases that goes wildly, rather than mildly, off the rails.

In many ways, it's the same dynamic that has produced some of the bizarre perversions among national politicians over the decades.
 
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Obliviax said:
Baffert, in an interview this morning, said that these tests are a) not uniform from state to state b) way too sensitive in terms of what is and what is not a meaningful dose that would affect a horse and c) that horses can get these trace amounts from anywhere. In other words, it is a horse. You can't teach it what to eat and what not to eat. If it can eat something it thinks is good, it is going to eat it.

Finally, he denied the horse having any supplements at all, let alone in the amount the test revealed.

I guess this is predictable but I didn't see any posts giving his side of the story.
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Translation: He's keeping all of his defenses open. And I'm sure that defense cascade has been well outlined. In fact, we've really heard all of these defenses in the context of other sports when you come to think about it:
1. Cycling - it wasnt on the prohibited list at the time.
2. Baseball - testosterone would never enhance baseball performance (set aside recovery)
3. Many sports - I must have ingested a contaminated supplement by accident.

At this point, honestly, I get that he probably has to say something given who he is and with the preakness this week, but I'm surprised he hasn't first bitched about the "leaking" of the A sample result before the B sample was tested for confirmation (again, the usual playbook).

What's sort of interesting about this is, as legalized gambling becomes an increasingly significant part of our economy (and I have to imagine that the gambling 'bump' associated with the Derby day is wildly significant to the racing industry), one would think that the gambling companies and state ag's (consumer protection) might start to take a greater interest in antidoping as a "symbol" of their commitment to the integrity of the model, particularly given states' (increasingly pathetic) reliance on that model for revenue.
 
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Obliviax said:
Baffert, in an interview this morning, said that these tests are a) not uniform from state to state b) way too sensitive in terms of what is and what is not a meaningful dose that would affect a horse and c) that horses can get these trace amounts from anywhere. In other words, it is a horse. You can't teach it what to eat and what not to eat. If it can eat something it thinks is good, it is going to eat it.

Finally, he denied the horse having any supplements at all, let alone in the amount the test revealed.

I guess this is predictable but I didn't see any posts giving his side of the story.
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If this was the first time then I would give him a pass. He’s had at least 30 different cases of some form of drugging and always gets his hands slapped. His filly last year tested positive for the same drug at approximately the same level. Someone on his team has been injecting this well within the 14 day allowable window. Based upon the kinetics of the drug probably 3-4 days prior to race after a workout to help with inflammation. If it was outside the 14 days the detectable levels would be below approved levels. Do I think horse won because of this not really. But it surely didn’t hurt.
 
You guys think horse racing is dirty with drugging and mistreating animals you should hang around the barns at a livestock shows.
 
Testing in high-level soccer/football/futbol/calcio has been and is a joke. Shouldn’t be surprising that while some of the best doping doctors were setting up shop in Spain and hooking up bike riders, the Spanish National Team - which has always been good, but overrated - became a true powerhouse. Blood doping and EPO lend themselves well to having the endurance to run your socks off for 90 minutes
 
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