Latest bowl consensus is Citrus vs Ole Miss but some still projecting Cotton or Orange

Jerry

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Link below.

Nobody even mentions the Rose because everyone's projecting Michigan to that game after their anticipated loss to the Buckeyes.

The run-up to bowl selections has always been fun, as has the game itself, but the new reality is that some of our best players won't be on the field, which detracts from the significance of the game.

I think we were missing half our first-team D last year against Arkansas. Gosh knows what will happen this year, but no way is Porter or Fashanu gonna play...and the list just starts there.

 

Jerry

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Don't get me started on players sitting out the bowl game. I think that's unconscionable.

For dead-certain 1st-rounders I get it. Not saying I agree with it, but I get it.

But for guys far down the draft list...or who don't even end up getting drafted as was the case for at least a couple of our sit-outs last year...that's pretty shaky and a bad look for our program.
 

Online Persona

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Link below.

Nobody even mentions the Rose because everyone's projecting Michigan to that game after their anticipated loss to the Buckeyes.

The run-up to bowl selections has always been fun, as has the game itself, but the new reality is that some of our best players won't be on the field, which detracts from the significance of the game.

I think we were missing half our first-team D last year against Arkansas. Gosh knows what will happen this year, but no way is Porter or Fashanu gonna play...and the list just starts there.

The good news is that PSU is already relying mostly on guys that should return next year. So for the bowl, yep, a few might sit but honestly I don't think many. We aren't going to have a big draft year this year. We're pretty young.
 

AWS1022

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Link below.

Nobody even mentions the Rose because everyone's projecting Michigan to that game after their anticipated loss to the Buckeyes.

The run-up to bowl selections has always been fun, as has the game itself, but the new reality is that some of our best players won't be on the field, which detracts from the significance of the game.

I think we were missing half our first-team D last year against Arkansas. Gosh knows what will happen this year, but no way is Porter or Fashanu gonna play...and the list just starts there.

I would also guess that players from our opponent would opt out as well.
 
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PSULionsDub

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Don't get me started on players sitting out the bowl game. I think that's unconscionable.
There's been some conversations and speculation about whether Olu Fashanu and Joey Porter Jr may be sitting out the rest of the regular season because they are 1st round draft picks.
 

jmorovich

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I would think that any player that sits out three regular season games and a bowl game would fall in the draft precipitously
And you will never know that’s what they are doing. This time of year everyone has a “shoulder” or “knee”. With nothing really left to play for it’s easy enough to have that discussion and protect the player if that’s what he and his family want.
 

ryoder1

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For dead-certain 1st-rounders I get it. Not saying I agree with it, but I get it.

But for guys far down the draft list...or who don't even end up getting drafted as was the case for at least a couple of our sit-outs last year...that's pretty shaky and a bad look for our program.
Clifford should sit. His draft stock has soared to the 1st or 2nd round.
 
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CVLion

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And you will never know that’s what they are doing. This time of year everyone has a “shoulder” or “knee”. With nothing really left to play for it’s easy enough to have that discussion and protect the player if that’s what he and his family want.
I understand your point, but boy do I find this notion of “nothing really left to play for” appalling. It makes it sound like the team is 2-8. They’re 8-2 and could go 11-2 with a really good bowl game. How about playing for that? For that matter, how about playing for your teammates, for pride, for finishing what you started?

I get it, some of these kids have huge paydays on the line. But damn, the rising opt out culture just turns my stomach.
 

AWS1022

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I understand your point, but boy do I find this notion of “nothing really left to play for” appalling. It makes it sound like the team is 2-8. They’re 8-2 and could go 11-2 with a really good bowl game. How about playing for that? For that matter, how about playing for your teammates, for pride, for finishing what you started?

I get it, some of these kids have huge paydays on the line. But damn, the rising opt out culture just turns my stomach.
Look at all those years we had nothing to play for after our first loss…I wish I would have known that so I could have saved time. If a NC is all that matters, we’ve wasted a lot of time over the span of my life. If a NC is all that matters, then very few bowl games we’ve ever played in mattered.
 

ShoreLion85

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Look at all those years we had nothing to play for after our first loss…I wish I would have known that so I could have saved time. If a NC is all that matters, we’ve wasted a lot of time over the span of my life. If a NC is all that matters, then very few bowl games we’ve ever played in mattered.
An NC is NOT all that matters. Here’s what matters:

1. Beat Michigan
2. Beat Ohio State
3. Win the conference championship.

therefore, considering Franklin has failed yet again at all 3, there is figuratively, nothing left to play for. Literally, we have 2 remaining games and need to win them. When will Nittany Nation understand that we are no longer an independent, and therefore the outdated notion of success “ double digit wins and a NY Day bowl game” is OVER. 3 success metrics. The 3 above, and ONLY those 3. There will never be another NC if we are not successful in those 3 metrics. Judge Franklin by those 3 metrics, because any other is extraneous.
 
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AWS1022

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An NC is NOT all that matters. Here’s what matters:

1. Beat Michigan
2. Beat Ohio State
3. Win the conference championship.

therefore, considering Franklin has failed yet again at all 3, there is figuratively, nothing left to play for. Literally, we have 2 remaining games and need to win them. When will Nittany Nation understand that we are no longer an independent, and therefore the outdated notion of success “ double digit wins and a NY Day bowl game” is OVER. 3 success metrics. The 3 above, and ONLY those 3. There will never be another NC if we are not successful in those 3 metrics. Judge Franklin by those 3 metrics, because any other is extraneous.
Those are your three success metrics, not necessarily everyone else’s.
 

ShoreLion85

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Those are your three success metrics, not necessarily everyone else’s.
Once again, a stark illustration of the issue with both Nittany Nation, and the PSU football program in general. We will NEVER climb the ladder above our current 2nd tier status as a program unless we start accomplishing the 3 success metrics. Never. That is reality, whether or not we choose to accept it.
 

bcspsu

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Once again, a stark illustration of the issue with both Nittany Nation, and the PSU football program in general. We will NEVER climb the ladder above our current 2nd tier status as a program unless we start accomplishing the 3 success metrics. Never. That is reality, whether or not we choose to accept it.
I would love it if PSU could accomplish those things on a routine basis, which it probably should. However, if that's your measure for a successful season, then you're going to be disappointed in most years because, with OSU and Michigan in the same division, PSU probably is going to be in a position to do these things maybe every two out of five seasons, and that's if most things perfectly come together

By the way, since 2016, the program that has the most wins in college football history only has beaten OSU once and won one Big Ten Championship, which is the same as PSU. Both PSU and this other program need to start to win more Big Ten East Division titles than just one each in the past seven seasons.
 
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Mufasa94

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An NC is NOT all that matters. Here’s what matters:

1. Beat Michigan
2. Beat Ohio State
3. Win the conference championship.

therefore, considering Franklin has failed yet again at all 3, there is figuratively, nothing left to play for. Literally, we have 2 remaining games and need to win them. When will Nittany Nation understand that we are no longer an independent, and therefore the outdated notion of success “ double digit wins and a NY Day bowl game” is OVER. 3 success metrics. The 3 above, and ONLY those 3. There will never be another NC if we are not successful in those 3 metrics. Judge Franklin by those 3 metrics, because any other is extraneous.
In 2017, they might have played in the CFP despite failing at your #2 of beating tOSU. We’ll never know because they lost a game that doesn’t make your list.

In addition, in 2016 they had success in 2 of your 3 metrics, but I do not consider that year better than either 2017 or 2019 (most successful of the 3), which only had 1 of your 3 metrics. They lost 2 games in 2016 outside your metrics compared to 1 in each of the other years.
 

Online Persona

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Those are your three success metrics, not necessarily everyone else’s.
Likely 10-2, top 10 ranking, and NY6 bowl = failure!!!!

If you were top 10 in income, you make at least $173k per year.

If you were top 10% in net worth
Age 41-45 $722k
Age 46-50 $1.17m
Age 51-55 $1.22m
Age 56-60 $2.46m
Age 61-65 $1.95m
Age 66-70 $1.71m
Age 71-75 $2.12m
Age 76-99 $2.08m

Point is top 10 may not be elite but it is pretty good.
 
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ShoreLion85

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I would love it if PSU could accomplish those things on a routine basis, which it probably should. However, if that's your measure for a successful season, then you're going to be disappointed in most years because, with OSU and Michigan in the same division, PSU probably is going to be in a position to do these things maybe every two out of five seasons, and that's if most things perfectly come together

By the way, since 2016, the program that has the most wins in college football history only has beaten OSU and won one Big Ten Championship, which is the same as PSU. Both PSU and this other program need to start to win more Big Ten East Division titles than just one each in the past seven seasons.
We either start accomplishing the 3 success metrics, or continue to wallow as a conference also-ran in our 2nd tier status as a program. It’s that simple, and all the wins vs Maryland and Purdue will not change that reality. No one is telling the fans not to be happy with a projected 10-2. go ahead an throw a party. But unless we start accomplishing the 3 success metrics, that party will continue to ring rather hollow.
 

bcspsu

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Likely 10-2, top 10 ranking, and NY6 bowl = failure!!!!

If you were top 10 in income, you make at least $173k per year.

If you were top 10% in net worth
Age 41-45 $722k
Age 46-50 $1.17m
Age 51-55 $1.22m
Age 56-60 $2.46m
Age 61-65 $1.95m
Age 66-70 $1.71m
Age 71-75 $2.12m
Age 76-99 $2.08m

Point is top 10 may not be elite but it is pretty good.
10-2 with the makeup of this team definitely would be a very good season, especially if the only two losses would be to teams that went undefeated and lost one game each. In fact, with the parity in college football now, a two loss season in most years should be considered a great success. God, a two loss LSU team now is being discussed as having a shot at the playoffs if they beat UGA.
 

ShoreLion85

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In 2017, they might have played in the CFP despite failing at your #2 of beating tOSU. We’ll never know because they lost a game that doesn’t make your list.

In addition, in 2016 they had success in 2 of your 3 metrics, but I do not consider that year better than either 2017 or 2019 (most successful of the 3), which only had 1 of your 3 metrics. They lost 2 games in 2016 outside your metrics compared to 1 in each of the other years.
You are tragically incorrect - the Pitt loss would have been completely discounted had we beaten Michigan, not the other way around. Thus, had we accomplished the 3 success metrics, we would have made the playoffs in 2016. In 2017, we lost to OSU. Had we beaten OSU (another Brett Pry 4th qtr choke), we would have made the conference championship game even with that other loss, and had an excellent chance at the playoffs.

stop trying to rationalize around the 3 success metrics. We will NEVER take the step above our current 2nd tier status as a program unless we start accomplishing the 3 success metrics. Embrace it - it is reality. Or don’t, and continue your lawerly evasions and contortions. 3 success metrics - these 3, and ONLY these 3: Beat UM; Beat OSU; win the conference championship. All else is chaff amongst the wheat.
 
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bcspsu

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We either start accomplishing the 3 success metrics, or continue to wallow as a conference also-ran in our 2nd tier status as a program. It’s that simple, and all the wins vs Maryland and Purdue will not change that reality. No one is telling the fans not to be happy with a projected 10-2. go ahead an throw a party. But unless we start accomplishing the 3 success metrics, that party will continue to ring rather hollow.
Like I said, I agree with you that PSU needs to start doing these things on a consistent basis, which I believe would be every two out of five or six seasons, considering that OSU and Michigan are in our same division. However, if you are expecting that PSU all of a sudden is going to do what OSU has done in this conference since Urban Meyer went there, then that's an unrealistic expectation and simply never is going to happen.
 

NoBareFeet

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You are tragically incorrect - the Pitt loss would have been completely discounted had we beaten Michigan, not the other way around. Thus, had we accomplished the 3 success metrics, we would have made the playoffs in 2016. In 2017, we lost to OSU. Had we beaten OSU (another Brett Pry 4th qtr choke), we would have made the conference championship game even with that other loss, and had an excellent chance at the playoffs.

stop trying to rationalize around the 3 success metrics. We will NEVER take the step above our current 2nd tier status as a program unless we start accomplishing the 3 success metrics. Embrace it - it is reality. Or don’t, and continue your lawerly evasions and contortions. 3 success metrics - these 3, and ONLY these 3: Beat UM; Beat OSU; win the conference championship. All else is chaff amongst the wheat.
Purdue's season will be far, far greater than Penn State's if it goes 7-5 and upsets Mich/OSU in the Big Ten championship game. Sure, a much worse W/L record in the same conference, and a head to head loss to PSU, but undefeated in made up success metrics!!!! Then they can just sit out the Rose Bowl, because it's meaningless...
 

ShoreLion85

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Like I said, I agree with you that PSU needs to start doing these things on a consistent basis, which I believe would be every two out of five or six seasons, considering that OSU and Michigan are in our same division. However, if you are expecting that PSU all of a sudden is going to do what OSU has done in this conference since Urban Meyer went there, then that's an unrealistic expectation and simply never is going to happen.
I expect better than 4-14 vs Um and OSU, and 1 conference title in 9 seasons. PSU should be better than that - significantly better. How about we start by winning our home games vs UM and OSU? That is a reasonable expectation, correct? Franklin can’t even do that.
 
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ShoreLion85

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Purdue's season will be far, far greater than Penn State's if it goes 7-5 and upsets Mich/OSU in the Big Ten championship game. Sure, a much worse W/L record in the same conference, and a head to head loss to PSU, but undefeated in made up success metrics!!!! Then they can just sit out the Rose Bowl, because it's meaningless...
The success metrics are PENN STATE’s success metrics, Einstein. Purdue? Who gives a bleep about whatever those people consider success. Unlike you, apparently, I hold PSU to a different standard than Purdue. Is that how far we’ve fallen since our glory days - we have the same standards for success as Purdue? I knew Franklin was underperforming, but I had no idea it was this badly.

oh, by the way, whomever represents the West in the BIG Championship is going to lose, and it won’t be close..See last seasons game for reference, that and the fact that since the conference went East-West, the West rep has lost EVERY championship game.
 

bcspsu

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I expect better than 4-14 vs Um and OSU, and 1 conference title in 9 seasons. PSU should be better than that - significantly better. How about we start by winning our home games vs UM and OSU? That is a reasonable expectation, correct? Franklin can’t even do that.
Yes, PSU definitely should be doing much better against those two programs, and that record is totally unacceptable. However, I do believe that overall, Franklin has done a very good job with this particular team considering the makeup of it, and I'm hoping that things begin to change beginning next season when they play those other two programs.
 
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Online Persona

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I expect better than 4-14 vs Um and OSU, and 1 conference title in 9 seasons. PSU should be better than that - significantly better. How about we start by winning our home games vs UM and OSU? That is a reasonable expectation, correct? Franklin can’t even do that.
I expect more from our fans than to $hit on our team in likely 10-2 regular seasons with a top 10 ranking and a NY6 bowl game. We don't always get what we think that we deserve. You won't get your undefeated season this year and I won't get fans that don't detract from the great effort of our young men this year. That's life.
 

The Spin Meister

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I expect more from our fans than to $hit on our team in likely 10-2 regular seasons with a top 10 ranking and a NY6 bowl game. We don't always get what we think that we deserve. You won't get your undefeated season this year and I won't get fans that don't detract from the great effort of our young men this year. That's life.
You, like that guy, have unreasonable expectations. The fan base on every team has these outliers. The perfectionists that demand perfection. Couch experts. Type As that insist on attention.

This year is pretty damned impressive. Preseason people predicted 7-5 or 8-4. MAYBE 9-3 if all went well. Our o line was a major question mark. As was the d line. Our runnings backs last year got hit in the backfield so often they did more dotsy doe square dancing than they did running. And the best back transferred to LSU. We were counting on a journeyman QB that couldn’t stay healthy and was inconsistent when he was healthy. Top receiver gone. Great punter, too. New DC. Weak at linebacker. And a head coach under heavy friendly fire.

Inspite of all that, the team is looking to go to 10-2 and a major bowl with a top ten finish highly possible. Better yet, it looks like the team will be far better next year and beyond. The O line is vastly improved and some young guys showing great promise. A freshman QB with unlimited potential. Two of the best running backs in the country......and both are true freshman. The D is playing lights out and aggressive. Young guys all over the field looking like experienced upperclassmen. Best thing is.......the entire team looks better each game.


Yet we have the whiners and complainers demanding attention. Wonder if they expect the same extremely high standards for themselves? Or their spouses? Or kids?
 
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Mufasa94

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You are tragically incorrect
You are incorrect as I made zero what if scenario statement about 2016.
- the Pitt loss would have been completely discounted had we beaten Michigan, not the other way around. Thus, had we accomplished the 3 success metrics, we would have made the playoffs in 2016.
Again, I made no what if scenario statement about 2016. I made a hindsight comparison of what occurred in 2016, 2017, and 2019. 2016 hit the most of your personal metrics and was the least successful of the three.
In 2017, we lost to OSU. Had we beaten OSU (another Brett Pry 4th qtr choke), we would have made the conference championship game even with that other loss, and had an excellent chance at the playoffs.
Had we beaten MSU in 2017 we still had an excellent chance at the CFP without meeting 2 of your metrics as tOSU would have still played the CCG.

2017 would have been an exact reverse situation of the season before with tOSU. The other national contenders would have been non-division winner Bama fresh off a loss in last game or UCF.
stop trying to rationalize around the 3 success metrics. We will NEVER take the step above our current 2nd tier status as a program unless we start accomplishing the 3 success metrics. Embrace it - it is reality. Or don’t, and continue your lawerly evasions and contortions. 3 success metrics - these 3, and ONLY these 3: Beat UM; Beat OSU; win the conference championship. All else is chaff amongst the wheat.
There is no evasion. While your metrics would typically be met during a season of ultimate success, just reaching them doesn’t guarantee success…and it could be possible to achieve ultimate success without them.
 

Online Persona

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You, like that guy, have unreasonable expectations. The fan base on every team has these outliers. The perfectionists that demand perfection. Couch experts. Type As that insist on attention.

This year is pretty damned impressive. Preseason people predicted 7-5 or 8-4. MAYBE 9-3 if all went well. Our o line was a major question mark. As was the d line. Our runnings backs last year got hit in the backfield so often they did more dotsy doe square dancing than they did running. And the best back transferred to LSU. We were counting on a journeyman QB that couldn’t stay healthy and was inconsistent when he was healthy. Top receiver gone. Great punter, too. New DC. Weak at linebacker. And a head coach under heavy friendly fire.

Inspite of all that, the team is looking to go to 10-2 and a major bowl with a top ten finish highly possible. Better yet, it looks like the team will be far better next year and beyond. The O line is vastly improved and some young guys showing great promise. A freshman QB with unlimited potential. Two of the best running backs in the country......and both are true freshman. The D is playing lights out and aggressive. Young guys all over the field looking like experienced upperclassmen. Best thing is.......the entire team looks better each game.


Yet we have the whiners and complainers demanding attention. Wonder if they expect the same extremely high standards for,themselves? Or their spouses? Or kids?
Wonder if they know how their incessant pessimism wears on their family and what is left of their friends? No one likes being around the perpetually miserable.
 

SR108

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You, like that guy, have unreasonable expectations. The fan base on every team has these outliers. The perfectionists that demand perfection. Couch experts. Type As that insist on attention.

This year is pretty damned impressive. Preseason people predicted 7-5 or 8-4. MAYBE 9-3 if all went well. Our o line was a major question mark. As was the d line. Our runnings backs last year got hit in the backfield so often they did more dotsy doe square dancing than they did running. And the best back transferred to LSU. We were counting on a journeyman QB that couldn’t stay healthy and was inconsistent when he was healthy. Top receiver gone. Great punter, too. New DC. Weak at linebacker. And a head coach under heavy friendly fire.

Inspite of all that, the team is looking to go to 10-2 and a major bowl with a top ten finish highly possible. Better yet, it looks like the team will be far better next year and beyond. The O line is vastly improved and some young guys showing great promise. A freshman QB with unlimited potential. Two of the best running backs in the country......and both are true freshman. The D is playing lights out and aggressive. Young guys all over the field looking like experienced upperclassmen. Best thing is.......the entire team looks better each game.


Yet we have the whiners and complainers demanding attention. Wonder if they expect the same extremely high standards for,themselves? Or their spouses? Or kids?
The team could be really good if some of the players come back, however, that's life in Power 5 football now a days.
 
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CJFisJoePaII

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Likely 10-2, top 10 ranking, and NY6 bowl = failure!!!!

If you were top 10 in income, you make at least $173k per year.

If you were top 10% in net worth
Age 41-45 $722k
Age 46-50 $1.17m
Age 51-55 $1.22m
Age 56-60 $2.46m
Age 61-65 $1.95m
Age 66-70 $1.71m
Age 71-75 $2.12m
Age 76-99 $2.08m

Point is top 10 may not be elite but it is pretty good.

"Elite" is a very subjective word. It really completely depends on how you define it. Given the youth of this team and how quickly it is improving, the young core of this team may prove to be elite - the "know it all" posing-trolls have no clue if this team is elite. We'll find out a lot more in how this team finishes - especially if they go to a NY6 Bowl.

BTW, a lot of teams that people have labeled impenetrable "elite", such as Clemson and Bama, are clearly not "elite" by their definition this year.
 
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ryoder1

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I would love it if PSU could accomplish those things on a routine basis, which it probably should. However, if that's your measure for a successful season, then you're going to be disappointed in most years because, with OSU and Michigan in the same division, PSU probably is going to be in a position to do these things maybe every two out of five seasons, and that's if most things perfectly come together

By the way, since 2016, the program that has the most wins in college football history only has beaten OSU once and won one Big Ten Championship, which is the same as PSU. Both PSU and this other program need to start to win more Big Ten East Division titles than just one each in the past seven seasons.
Good points and I think we can win the B10 but it won't be that often. If we do it once every 4 years that would be a success.

It's interesting with some people on this board demanding we win the B10 and playoff or bust. I get their desire but do we know their expectations? Is it every year, every other year or just once in a while? It reminds me of having an unrealistic boss or CEO wanting to hit sales targets. Their expectations are unrealistic and they huff and puff and bluster and you just need to rationalize with them or just ignore them at some point if there is not a grip on reality.
 

bvillebaron

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“Playing for your teammates”? Please see Parsons, Micah for the answer to that. That concept is as anachronistic as non play-off bowl games mattering.
I think Micah's situation is a little different than the guys who blew off last year's bowl game. Micah decided to turn pro and began preparing for the NFL draft when the Big Ten initially cancelled the season. He apparently considered playing after the Bid relented and okayed an abbreviated season but chose not to do so. You can be critical of that decision if you want, but it's not the same thing as deciding to play and then blowing off a bowl game because you may get hurt.
 
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The Spin Meister

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I think Micah's situation is a little different than the guys who blew off last year's bowl game. Micah decided to turn pro and began preparing for the NFL draft when the Big Ten initially cancelled the season. He apparently considered playing after the Bid relented and okayed an abbreviated season but chose not to do so. You can be critical of that decision if you want, but it's not the same thing as deciding to play and then blowing off a bowl game because you may get hurt.
That’s been covered more than a dozen times. He knows that. Just a troll looking for attention.
 

Woodpecker

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An NC is NOT all that matters. Here’s what matters:

1. Beat Michigan
2. Beat Ohio State
3. Win the conference championship.

therefore, considering Franklin has failed yet again at all 3, there is figuratively, nothing left to play for. Literally, we have 2 remaining games and need to win them. When will Nittany Nation understand that we are no longer an independent, and therefore the outdated notion of success “ double digit wins and a NY Day bowl game” is OVER. 3 success metrics. The 3 above, and ONLY those 3. There will never be another NC if we are not successful in those 3 metrics. Judge Franklin by those 3 metrics, because any other is extraneous.
You've missed some pretty good football played by guys that, for reasons beyond your comprehension, are still playing hard.
 

jayhawks65

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I would think that any player that sits out three regular season games and a bowl game would fall in the draft precipitously
Ask Micah Parsons. If you are a good player NFL does not care about some exhibition college game. Ole Miss quarterback almost broke his leg in one of those stupid games last year.
 

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