Latest in Paterno v NCAA

[marshall23]

Joe also said something like JS had been fooling a lot of people for a long time. I think he said that some time around 11/11.

That is a very important part of his statement. I believe he said that the allegations "if true" would prove that JS fooled many people including "TRAINED PROFESSIONALS." It is interesting that all the folks who wish to pin this mess on PSU never refer to those who vetted JS for adoption and foster care of children.

 

[simons96]

The "advocates" who've sold out their own causes in exchange for 15 minutes of anti-Paterno fame are themselves a special breed of scumbag.

they deserve every bit of scorn that is heaped upon them. shame on them for betraying actual victims

 

[simons96]

That is a very important part of his statement. I believe he said that the allegations "if true" would prove that JS fooled many people including "TRAINED PROFESSIONALS." It is interesting that all the folks who wish to pin this mess on PSU never refer to those who vetted JS for adoption and foster care of children.

just imagine if a football coach put a player on the field after qualified medical staff (trainers, doctors, etc) cleared him to play, and it turned out they had all missed some ailment that seemed obvious in hindsight

why would we heap 100% of the blame on the coach?

 

[Woodpecker]

Hard to wish that when you told the truth.

Which time?

 

[NittPicker]

just imagine if a football coach put a player on the field after qualified medical staff (trainers, doctors, etc) cleared him to play, and it turned out they had all missed some ailment that seemed obvious in hindsight

why would we heap 100% of the blame on the coach?

Only if the coach was named Joe Paterno. He supposedly knew about anything and everything which was going on in State College. In fact, he could simply look at a player and know if said player had a dangerous physical condition. Yeah, the man knew EVERYTHING!!!!

 

[StinkStankStunk]

Serious question. What did Joe later find out about the shower victim that would have prompted him to have done more in 2001?

 

[BowieLion]

It is interesting that all the folks who wish to pin this mess on PSU never refer to those who vetted JS for adoption and foster care of children.

This is simply amazing, isn't it? But then again, it doesn't fit with the agenda they are pushing. Just like no one looked to THE SECOND MILE for answers.

 

[91Joe95]

"I don't know what you call it".

2002 instead of 2001

 

[wensilver]

So joe and or CSS should have contacted the police? Or only Jack? Or do you feel that only fourth hand reports are worth mentioning to police?

Well - since you asked.

I brought up the issue of Raykovitz failing AT THE MINIMUM to implement a written safety plan in 1998 and 2001 and the issue of charity (LACK OF) oversight and procedures today with a state decision-maker involved in this.

I have also brought up these issues directly with the Attorney General, two Federal Prosecutors, a Commonwealth Judge and a few DAs in our state, among others.

They are all stymied as to why Second Mile has thus far, escaped without publicly answering to these questions and without - what appears to be - any credible (public) investigation.

 

[Aoshiro]

I understand why you choose not to answer my question. I agree Joe was trying to be helpful and appreciate why his general mental state may have allowed him to relate a description of a conversation from 2001 instead of simply saying "I don't remember."

"I don't know what you would call it."

 

[Aoshiro]

my experience is most of the public doubts this story
.

Sadly, that is not true in my neck of the woods.

 

[WeR0206]

Well - since you asked.

I brought up the issue of Raykovitz failing AT THE MINIMUM to implement a written safety plan in 1998 and 2001 and the issue of charity (LACK OF) oversight and procedures today with a state decision-maker involved in this.

I have also brought up these issues directly with the Attorney General, two Federal Prosecutors, a Commonwealth Judge and a few DAs in our state, among others.

They are all stymied as to why Second Mile has thus far, escaped without publicly answering to these questions and without - what appears to be - any credible (public) investigation.

Thank you for all of your tireless work Wendy, you've been a shining star for the PSU community and advocate for child care.

Re: the post you were responding to, here's my 2 cents. Joe/CSS/Raykovitz all testified to the same thing re: 2001-- a late night inappropriate shower/horseplay that made a PSU GA uncomfortable.

If anyone dropped the ball or should have done MORE with that information it was the phd in psychiatry mandatory reporter and person legally responsible for JS and TSM kids--JR...and NOT some damned college admins/football coach. They brought the report to the EXACT right person who was 1000X more qualified to handle MM's vague assumption riddled report.

CSS had no control over JS' access to kids and JR/TSM had DIRECT control and CSS reported it to TSM. End of story as far as PSU admin's role in this is concerned IMO.

 

[psudukie]

Wensilver.... I can agree with you on this... Makes you wonder what kind of power and money have infuenxe here in happy valley and for how long...I dare say back to seventies.... I am not referring to Jerry alone.... His shinanigans date back that far for sure.... And no he didn't fool everyone.

What really has gone on in happy valley and for how long??

Well - since you asked.

I brought up the issue of Raykovitz failing AT THE MINIMUM to implement a written safety plan in 1998 and 2001 and the issue of charity (LACK OF) oversight and procedures today with a state decision-maker involved in this.

I have also brought up these issues directly with the Attorney General, two Federal Prosecutors, a Commonwealth Judge and a few DAs in our state, among others.

They are all stymied as to why Second Mile has thus far, escaped without publicly answering to these questions and without - what appears to be - any credible (public) investigation.

 

[simons96]

Sadly, that is not true in my neck of the woods.

well I do live in Big 12 country.

but I've heard from people all around the country. you must live near the Pitt campus, LOL

 

[StinkStankStunk]

.... His shinanigans date back that far for sure.... And no he didn't fool everyone.

It would be nice to know WHO he "didn't fool"......wouldn't it? ;-)

 

[Marshall30]

Wensilver.... I can agree with you on this... Makes you wonder what kind of power and money have infuenxe here in happy valley and for how long...I dare say back to seventies.... I am not referring to Jerry alone.... His shinanigans date back that far for sure.... And no he didn't fool everyone.

What really has gone on in happy valley and for how long??

You're full of shit.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Wensilver.... I can agree with you on this... Makes you wonder what kind of power and money have infuenxe here in happy valley and for how long...I dare say back to seventies.... I am not referring to Jerry alone.... His shinanigans date back that far for sure.... And no he didn't fool everyone.

What really has gone on in happy valley and for how long??

I'm a bit confused by this post Dukie.....on the one hand, you intimate concrete longstanding knowledge of Sandusky being both a pedo and a predator, but then immediately basically state - makes you wonder who all knew and for how long (while implicitly taring "them" with "but they did nothing to stop him"). Given you're own "longstanding" knowledge of Sandusky not only having this grotesque psychological affliction (which is what unnatural perversions are - e.g., they are "abnormal" relative to "nature's intent"), but also acting out on it for decades, why didn't YOU do something about it a long time ago like report it to the police? Why are you absolved from "them"? I really don't get your statement in the least and believe it demonstrates quite a bit of hypocrisy at best - why do you absolve yourself from doing the "right thing" regardless of cost to your own self-interest? You're going to sit here and tell me that you knew Sandusky was a monster for a long time and yet you personally have done nothing to stop him or protect his child victims?

 

[Zenophile]

I am not referring to Jerry alone.... His shinanigans date back that far for sure.... And no he didn't fool everyone.

Dukie, it would really be helpful if you'd be kind enough to elaborate on this.

 

[Pennoyer]

Wensilver.... I can agree with you on this... Makes you wonder what kind of power and money have infuenxe here in happy valley and for how long...I dare say back to seventies.... I am not referring to Jerry alone.... His shinanigans date back that far for sure.... And no he didn't fool everyone.

What really has gone on in happy valley and for how long??

He must have fooled your brother since your brother played in a charity football game where JS was the honorary coach in March 2002, one year after the 2001 incident.

 

[marshall23]

Dukie, I've followed your posts and I think you are a genuinely good person. For the record, I am truly sorry about the pain MM and your family have endured. That being said, I think you do yourself and your family a disservice with that last statement. If people knew since the 70's and did nothing, why did Dr. D, your Dad and MM remain silent? Perhaps I am not reading your post correctly. I really hope so.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

He must have fooled your brother since your brother played in a charity football game where JS was the honorary coach in March 2002, one year after the 2001 incident.

He also worked Sandusky-sponsored Football Camps as a paid Coach at Behrend College in Erie after 2001 (probably other places as well as Sandusky typically held his football camps at Branch Campus facilities - Altoona, Erie, etc....).

 

[Zenophile]

Dukie, I've followed your posts and I think you are a genuinely good person. For the record, I am truly sorry about the pain MM and your family have endured. That being said, I think you do yourself and your family a disservice with that last statement. If people knew since the 70's and did nothing, why did Dr. D, your Dad and MM remain silent? Perhaps I am not reading your post correctly. I really hope so.

I'm not making excuses for Dukie (or his family), but it seems a reasonable possibility that he may have learned about these alleged others in recent years.

Like you, I still very much want him to elaborate on this point.

 

[indynittany]

You're full of shit.

Sounds like somebody struck a nerve!

 

[baircub1!]

Wensilver.... I can agree with you on this... Makes you wonder what kind of power and money have infuenxe here in happy valley and for how long...I dare say back to seventies.... I am not referring to Jerry alone.... His shinanigans date back that far for sure.... And no he didn't fool everyone.

What really has gone on in happy valley and for how long??

I have a family and brothers whom I'm of course very close to as well. And will always defend them regardless of whatever miscues they could be involved with.

No one on this board has any idea really what your family is going through but I will say this...

To a man... If any of us knew that a brother had seen a grown man... Actually SEEN a grown man RAPING a child anywhere... And did nothing... Slamming a locker door... Is NOTHING... We would have been not only ALL over our sibling... But in fact we would have directly or indirectly gone to the authorities with no questions asked.

And I think YOU would have as well.

So... What I think... Is MM suspected something but did not SEE anything... Which is why Dranov , your Father etc all said... Go talk to Joe because... What you heard or suspected could not be identified as 100 true.... But of course it made you uneasy.

Now no doubt the DA put the screws to MM.

As a brother ... I get defending a sibling... Totally get it.

But... In NO WAY if any of my brothers saw an actual RAPE of a 10 year old taking place and did nothing to stop ( not slamming a locker door) it... We would beat the crap out of him...

 

[indynittany]

I'm not making excuses for Dukie (or his family), but it seems a reasonable possibility that he may have learned about these alleged others in recent years.

Like you, I still very much want him to elaborate on this point.

These "alleged incidents" of which you speak sound a lot like rumors. Nobody can be faulted for not taking them seriously.

 

[psudukie]

I never knew of another incident till after presentment other than hearsay late in investigation.

My father I believe is on record of being reassured by Gary that nothing more with Jerry could be done when he brought the subject up weeks after Mike's reporting of the incident.

If am full of shot so be it. I will gladly admit to being wrong, I currently do not believe I am.

 

[baircub1!]

I never knew of another incident till after presentment other than hearsay late in investigation.

My father I believe is on record of being reassured by Gary that nothing more with Jerry could be done when he brought the subject up weeks after Mike's reporting of the incident.

If am full of shot so be it. I will gladly admit to being wrong, I currently do not believe I am.

Are you guys close?

 

[WeR0206]

I never knew of another incident till after presentment other than hearsay late in investigation.

My father I believe is on record of being reassured by Gary that nothing more with Jerry could be done when he brought the subject up weeks after Mike's reporting of the incident.

If am full of shot so be it. I will gladly admit to being wrong, I currently do not believe I am.

If MM thought a kid was abused why didn't your dad or MM ever ask Schultz why no one from UPPD came to get Mike's written statement? What exactly did they expect some college admin who wasn't an actual LE officer to do? No criminal investigation of JS could ever start without MM doing that first step of submitting a statement, and yet he never did that until 9 YEARS later.

Instead you guys all just shrugged your shoulders and went on with your lives? Come on...something's not adding up here.

 

[Zenophile]

These "alleged incidents" of which you speak sound a lot like rumors. Nobody can be faulted for not taking them seriously.

I'm with you. Was just hoping to give Dukie sufficient space in which to elaborate. Still hoping he does so.

 

[Marshall30]

I never knew of another incident till after presentment other than hearsay late in investigation.

My father I believe is on record of being reassured by Gary that nothing more with Jerry could be done when he brought the subject up weeks after Mike's reporting of the incident.

If am full of shot so be it. I will gladly admit to being wrong, I currently do not believe I am.

Stick your middler up your ass with your bullshit.

 

[Marshall30]

I'm with you. Was just hoping to give Dukie sufficient space in which to elaborate. Still hoping he does so.

Dukie is full of shit. So is Mike.

 

[PSUCYCLING]

I never knew of another incident till after presentment other than hearsay late in investigation.

My father I believe is on record of being reassured by Gary that nothing more with Jerry could be done when he brought the subject up weeks after Mike's reporting of the incident.

If am full of shot so be it. I will gladly admit to being wrong, I currently do not believe I am.

Very fair post. Putting on the speculation cap, perhaps "nothing could be done" could mean:

- Courtney told Schultz that Second Mile was entirely responsible for Jerry's actions/access to kids

- Everyone ( Dranov, your dad, Paterno, Curley, Schultz) acted like what Mike saw was very inappropriate but not necessarily rising to the level of a crime. 2nd Mile was in the best position to gather the details of the child in question.

- taken together, the PSU crew approached it that it was 2nd Mile's call on whether to report to child services.

 

[artsandletters]

I never knew of another incident till after presentment other than hearsay late in investigation.

My father I believe is on record of being reassured by Gary that nothing more with Jerry could be done when he brought the subject up weeks after Mike's reporting of the incident.

If am full of shot so be it. I will gladly admit to being wrong, I currently do not believe I am.

Dammit, do you not get it. Nothing after 2001 matters. Irrelevant.

 

[artsandletters]

Dukie is full of shit. So is Mike.

This has been pointed out to you many times but why is it that nearly every one of your worthless comments has something to do with the function of our bowels. What is your problem?

 

[lionlurker]

The answers to a lot of these questions can only come from the individuals who have been charged and not tried for over four years now, thus assuring their continued silence. Anyone who thinks this is an accident is a fool, and anyone who thinks they have nothing to say of interest is a moron. The people who orchestrated all of this had to know that when CSS did not flip or take a plea deal, that the day would come when their little charade would get blown up. Soon, these guys will tell their stories, and the BOT-bots who swear they will never talk are engaging in extremely wishful thinking.

 

[Aoshiro]

My father I believe is on record of being reassured by Gary that nothing more with Jerry could be done when he brought the subject up weeks after Mike's reporting of the incident.
.

Your brother was sure that he had seen Sandusky molesting a child and your father-- a medical professional -- blithely accepted it when Schultz told him there was nothing that could be done? He didn't encourage Mike to take it anywhere else?

Bullshit.

It does not pass the smell test.

 

[Marshall30]

Your brother was sure that he had seen Sandusky molesting a child and your father-- a medical professional -- blithely accepted it when Schultz told him there was nothing that could be done? He didn't encourage Mike to take it anywhere else?

Bullshit.

It does not pass the smell test.

Dukie is full of shit.

 

[Black Elmo 2]

Odds of JS getting a new trial? About 10,000,000:1.

 

[nits74]

I'm not making excuses for Dukie (or his family), but it seems a reasonable possibility that he may have learned about these alleged others in recent years.

Like you, I still very much want him to elaborate on this point.

This is the thing that gets me (coming from both sides) are these type of cryptic posts. Miser, at least, has adequately explained his reason for not getting into detail. Some of these others? I have to question their credibility. And I like Dukie.

 

[coveydidnt]

This is the thing that gets me (coming from both sides) are these type of cryptic posts. Miser, at least, has adequately explained his reason for not getting into detail. Some of these others? I have to question their credibility. And I like Dukie.

It's an indicator that there's more to the story. As a hypothetical, what if MMQ's story, as we know it, isn't quite 100%true (whichever version)? Was he really watching Rudy & inspired to put shoes in his locker? Was he completely sober that night? Was he planning to meet someone that night? Did something else happen that is seemingly completely unrelated to all of this, but that Mike doesn't want people to know about? Is it possible that his story doesn't fully make sense because it's not fully been told? And maybe can't be without putting himself in some kind of jeopardy?